Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

Darkknight666

There you go again! Trying to spread rumors and gossip that have no truth to them at all and have several times here already proved false.

NS did not refuse to give his DNA because he was never ask for it. Understand That! He was never asked for it! He was cleared on his Alibi alone. He gave his DNA on a Volunteer basis only. So why is it that every week you have to be told this? Are you really that forgetful? Or are you just trying to be a Snot Nosed Little Kid?

What makes you think you are so important that the Police and Prosecution in this country, or any other for that matter, owe you any explanation? Least of all in an ongoing murder investigation. They owe you NOTHING Sonny Boy! Nothing! Zippity Do-da! Zilch! They do not have to produce evidence for you or explain to you why a suspect has been cleared. For Brain Washed People it would only be a waste of time anyway.

Haven't you notice that the Police have stopped making Press Conferences since the end of October? That the only ones speaking about it now seem to be the Defense or the Media expressing their opinions? This is standard protocol in many countries in that Police and Prosecution don't talk about it to the public. They talk about it in court. .

If you want to stamp out crime and corruption in this world then maybe start in Burma (Myanmar) as they have some of the highest crime rates in the World, and by far near the highest Corruption Rate in the World to. Myanmar is tied with Zimbabwe for Corruption, for God's Sake. So if you want to help Burmese People, go their.

Uh, LOL.

Listen GB, I've lived here during and followed this case since it happened. I mention NS as often as Shark Tooth, Hoe Man and Mon yet you only complain when I mention NS, why? Yes the police do have an obligation to explain to the people that pay them what evidence they have to convict someone. It has to do with transparency, try google.

And Protocols? They've been proven near non existent in this case and many others. I don't but the evidence police have verbally given, that's not enough for many, many people, my wife and her family, and people all over the world included. Why do you have a problem with that? If Zaw and Win turn up in evidence that can't be disputed then fine, but they haven't... Neither have any other suspects at this point. I'm

Here giving an opinion... That's what this board is for.

Sounds like you may need a nap, you're cranky.

Listen Darkknight666.

You opinion is was not criticized by my post. You have stressed you other opinions on other people and you have noticed I never jump in.

But when you purposely give false and misleading information here, this s not an opinion at all. It is false and misleading information.

You said NS refused to give his DNA to the Police. I told you that he did not refuse as he was never requested to do so.You know this. This is not the only time you have said this and been corrected.

Personally I don't mind anyone's opinion here and whether I agree to it or not. But what I don't like is some Spin Doctor to come here with a pack of lies and totally "Contaminate" "Corrupt" or :"Destroy" this site with purposely misleading garbage. Go to the other ones where it is excepted.

And again No! The Police do not have to explain to you anything, This is what courts are for.

If I seem grumpy it is because someone (we both know) called me names again and a Butthead! I would suggest to that person if he can not be civil to go wash his mouth out with soap and then come back and try again. .

I didn't see the insult to you only a reply about it drone Bones.. Anyway, about the refusal of DNA on Civil/Human rights I haven't found anything, I am however still looking so I won't mention that again without at least something like a news report from a trusted news source.

The police don't have to explain anything to me you're correct.. But they do answer to the Thai people and Not all of them want this to die down so tourism isn't hurt. I hold no ill will for you I just can't understand your way of thinking, Nor can you with mine.

My one and only motivation is for the people, whoever they may be, face justice. That's it.

Okay! Then we are Square on NS for now. How long this lasts is unknown.

Your motive cannot be that the people who did this face justice, when you can not even consider for one second that the people being held right now might have done this. You have to be open minded to be that way. If proof says otherwise my opinion would change. Would Yours? .

[GOLDBUGGY]

Both quotes by GB, below, are addressed to darkknight, but I'll step in the fray. . . . .

You said NS refused to give his DNA to the Police. I told you that he did not refuse as he was never requested to do so. You know this. This is not the only time you have said this and been corrected.

I'll correct you again. First off, do you have any proof/sources that NS was not asked for DNA? Secondly, if a person is a suspect in a serious crime (which he was), then it's assumed he would do anything reasonable to dispense of those suspicions. Refusing to offer DNA, along with running and hiding from police - are indications of guilt. Yes, we know of the later press event re; NS' DNA. We also know, more recently, that it was shown by a top RTP detective, in court testimony, to have been a sham show. Next.....

As if any more proofs were needed, RTP top brass announced, right after the Nomsod's DNA show that they wouldn't share findings with Brit experts. I believe (maybe naively) that NS's DNA was typed correctly, but now we find there is no official record of it. It was most likely not even compared to the DNA found on Hannah. Do RTP even have the DNA found on Hannah? Judging by how they're trying so hard to evade any re-examination of DNA, it's hard to tell what RTP have. Are they untrustworthy? Are they hiding crucial data? All their actions point that way. If it walks, shits and quacks like a duck,.......

And again No! The Police do not have to explain to you anything, This is what courts are for. If I seem grumpy it is because someone (we both know) called me names again and a Butthead! I would suggest to that person if he can not be civil to go wash his mouth out with soap and then come back and try again.

You're right, the police have no obligation toward any of us posters on T.Visa. There is a quaint general concept about how police worldwide are supposed to protect everyone in their jurisdiction (not just rich VIPs), but we don't expect any such silliness here in Land of Smiles. By not doing their jobs properly, Thai police are endangering everyone who strolls around KT (and other beach resorts?).

I just met with 5 young Danish gals this morning. they asked me where I recommend going in southern Thailand. I said most places are ok, but be wary of Ko Tao, Pang Gnan, and Phi Phi. As far as I know, those are the 3 most dangerous places for farang backpackers - where the odds are highest for getting f'ked over or worse.

And you were never at any of these places like me. Right?

[JohnThailandJohn]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[GOLDBUGGY]

We don't believe NS "evidence" his lawyer gave for him being in Bangkok... Also all of the info is coming from one side with a vested interest in the outcome of the case. Conflict of interest anyone? Normally evidence given to clear a suspect is given to the public in great detail, Because the public want to feel sure criminals are held accountable, and police are held accountable to the standards of the law. Your new, maybe you won't dodge the question.... If NS is innocent why has he given nothing else to prove it? There are what 500K cameras all over Bangkok, and that's all he can give? Also, why did he hide? Why did he initially refuse to give DNA citing his "Human Rights"? Why is there even a Rumor he was on the Island?

Whether JTJ is paid for his posts is not important. What's important is trying to sift through the lies and get to the truth. The truth put forth so far is bleeding from every orifice.

I do understand your sense of frustration at not getting the answers you want, but what we need to remember this is a trial which is happening now and whether we like it or not there is a good chance we are not privy to all the details of what is transpiring in the court room, and the evidence presented.

From someone who has just stepped into this discussion and read through the vast amount of postings there is clearly two camps which have been set up, those for the boys from Myanmar and those against, but the end game is all want justice. The problem now both sides are entrenched in there respective corners and will not change now, partly driven from the fact you would be bombarded with 'i told you so' postings.

I understand no one believes the NS evidence, i have to admit it is not overly convincing, but again how much do we actually know. Is such as cover up of this scale actually possible, but it only takes one photograph or one piece of CCTV evidence and the walls will come tumbling down, and the ramifications pretty bad. I am sure there are conflicts of interest, is this not normal, is it not natural that the Resort owner would protect his son anyway he could, and if that involves paying of the policemen to make this go away then that's what has to be done, very unethical if that is the case.

With regard to NS not giving more evidence, i suspect the answer is 'why should he' he has already presented information, the best option would no doubt be lay low, if you start giving yourself more exposure it will undoubtedly raise more risks. I was not aware he refused to give his DNA, but understand this was performed later at the infamous press conference, but what the DNA was matched to i really am not sure.

The one thing i simply cannot get my head around is, if it is one big cover up, how would it even be possible, surely one person would have come forward with some information, but on the other hand, maybe they have and we have yet to see such information out in the open.

For me, i am looking forward to the defence having their day in court, from what i have read they seem to have some vital information which will contradict the information the police have presented, but we also have to be prepared for the fact it may be not as explosive as people are hoping for. I expect it will be from one of the deceased friends, and will be 'photographic' rather than just verbal evidence which will give a strong indication as to what transpired that night, and maybe substantiate the 'rumours' or maybe i am completely wrong, who knows.

I don't believe JTJ and the others are being paid, they are simply offering counter arguments, which frustrates people into making these statements, more likely they just enjoy the banter.

As a final note, i seen someone post the word 'dillweed' think it has been edited out now, but that was hilarious, Beavis and Butt-head used to use that word all the time... nice one.

Bonez, you make the good point that no one has come forward etc.. Just a thought, David Miller came forward and he died for that. Wonder if some people having observed that have decided life beats death. Seems logical

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

"Boys"? At what age in your country can a man legally get married, drink (baring Arabic and some other Countries), and join the Armed Forces to fight and possible die for his country. Age 40?

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

[GOLDBUGGY]

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Show one instance, any at all, where police, after handing over who they think are the only culprits of a crime, continue to investigate looking for, not just other accomplices, but alternative culprits while a trial is underway and no verdict has been reached.

I don't expect you to provide any example, or recognize, in view of that, that your argument is absurd.

How about when burglars are caught, they have two in custody and it's reported there were four assailants?

You think they stop looking for the others? Lol.

How could 2 small men overpower David and Hannah (going by the RTP theory of D&H being intimate and B2 have sudden rage-lust) without one of them getting away? IMO there were at minimum 3 people on the beach that night assaulting David and Hannah. Why does it say in the article above there WAS an altercation at AC bar that cops were aware of? Headman says he doesn't know where his son is, then says everyone knows he was at university. All of the discrepancies amount to a massive pile nobody dare try to explain. Also, why did RTP accept help from the FBI only to turn it down? This is a major case in sensitive times, why not allow transparency?

Looking forward to your off topic snark.

AleG wants to paint what he personally wants (no investigation) as what's modus operandi for detectives. A note to AleG: wanting something badly, doesn't make it the rule of the land. Detectives are trained to detect what really happened at a crime scene. There isn't some voodoo moment when they're supposed to seize all detective work, and quit considering viable alternatives. Even during a trial, if a bloody shirt, for example was found under Mon's bed, that might be something to investigate. According to AleG, there's nothing more a detective should think or do, once suspects are in custody.

A Bloody Shirt found under Mon's Bed, and from the guy who was never investigated? Interesting Theory! I won't even ask you who looked for that, when he was not being investigated.

[loonodingle]

Bonez, you make the good point that no one has come forward etc.. Just a thought, David Miller came forward and he died for that. Wonder if some people having observed that have decided life beats death. Seems logical

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

"Boys"? At what age in your country can a man legally get married, drink (baring Arabic and some other Countries), and join the Armed Forces to fight and possible die for his country. Age 40?

Picking holes in his choice of words hardly furthers the debate.

Just wait for the disclosures that are coming and then rethink your position

[loonodingle]

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

"Boys"? At what age in your country can a man legally get married, drink (baring Arabic and some other Countries), and join the Armed Forces to fight and possible die for his country. Age 40?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=yGpyU7yaOOfR8geSn4DoBg#q=definition+of+a+boy

antonyms: man

• a person's son.

  "she put her little boy to bed"
• a male child or young man who does a specified job.

  "a delivery boy"

• 2.

  a man, especially a young or relatively young one.

  "I was the new boy at the office"

[JohnThailandJohn]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

No this is actual fact and comes from those at the meeting, including their lawyer publicly stating this and they have in fact changed their story and have in fact replaced the lawyer their embassy provided them.

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

No that is what people at the meeting, including their lawyer publicly stated and they have in fact changed their story and have in fact replaced the lawyer their embassy provided them.

Well you wasn't there and u only believe what you read in the Thai press.

Lets see what the remainder of the trial brings and then you may view it all in a different light

[JohnThailandJohn]

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

"Boys"? At what age in your country can a man legally get married, drink (baring Arabic and some other Countries), and join the Armed Forces to fight and possible die for his country. Age 40?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=yGpyU7yaOOfR8geSn4DoBg#q=definition+of+a+boy

antonyms: man

• a person's son.

  "she put her little boy to bed"
• a male child or young man who does a specified job.

  "a delivery boy"

• 2.

  a man, especially a young or relatively young one.

  "I was the new boy at the office"

Based on your post, I assume you are just a boy

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[GOLDBUGGY]

Last one for tonight. Taxi drivers don't get offered 700k baht for false testimony against migrant workers! They'd turn them over for free. Hell. They may even get a reward around here.

There goes that misleading information again!

The Taxi Driver, who people here call was offered a Bribe, and was Interrogation by the Police, had nothing to do with the 2 Accused. This was in relation to a Foot Ball Team who became suspects.

The Taxi Driver was not offered a Bribe. He was offered the Reward Money which at that time was 700K, if he could give them evidence that this guys did it. Since he could not, this was dropped.

[loonodingle]

Hi Glenmohr

I don't believe we will ever know the final sequence of events at the time the deceased were tragically taken away, this is for the authorities to piece together. I do hope David was a hero until the end, that's the picture i will embed in my mind.

The current situation is that the two Myanmar boys are in prison based on evidence the police have presented as part of their initial prosecution case, that a fact we have to realise, rightly or wrongly.

"Boys"? At what age in your country can a man legally get married, drink (baring Arabic and some other Countries), and join the Armed Forces to fight and possible die for his country. Age 40?

https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=yGpyU7yaOOfR8geSn4DoBg#q=definition+of+a+boy

antonyms: man

• a person's son.

  "she put her little boy to bed"
• a male child or young man who does a specified job.

  "a delivery boy"

• 2.

  a man, especially a young or relatively young one.

  "I was the new boy at the office"

Based on your post, I assume you are just a boy

Ha Ha, Yeah I wish. 20 odd years in Thailand. 2 Thai wives and a tribe of kids....LOL..

Edited July 31, 2015 by loonodingle

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Funny that GB you make a statement and then remove it.

Perhaps you have an insecure mind.

Edited July 31, 2015 by loonodingle

[GOLDBUGGY]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Yeah the bird on the far left.. Not bad.. wonder what's she is in for... ignore the allegation by JTJ its unsubstantiated gossip and refuted

"Unsubstantiated?" Are you tying your post in Braille? Even a one eyed Gardener can see that which is posted and not made up!

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

No this is actual fact and comes from those at the meeting, including their lawyer publicly stating this and they have in fact changed their story and have in fact replaced the lawyer their embassy provided them.

John it all depends which day of the week you quote from hey. I can do the same!!

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/koh-tao-suspects-innocent-govt-investigation-team.html

Koh Tao Suspects Innocent: Govt Investigation Team

RANGOON — A team formed by the Burmese government to investigate the Koh Tao case has announced that it is confident the two Burmese nationals accused of the double murder are innocent of the crime.

Three members of a special support team operating out of the Burmese Embassy in Thailand told a press conference on Thursday that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, would be exonerated of the September murder of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Koh Tao, but it will take time, money and effort for the truth to be fully revealed.

“However the Thai judiciary decides on the case, it is our belief that these two kids did not commit the crime,” said Htoo Chit, a spokesman for the investigation. “According to what we know and eyewitness information we have gathered, we believe they are innocent.”

[loonodingle]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Ohhhh John u stoop to some low depths don't you.

You have taken this photo from a piece that says they did not confess until beaten etc.....

Dirty tricks that..

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

CHIANG MAI, Thailand — Two Burmese migrants currently being detained on Thailand’s Koh Samui were allegedly beaten and threatened by Thai police and an interpreter under interrogation for the murders of two British tourists last month, according to a Burmese lawyer who spoke with the accused.

The two migrants from Burma’s Arakan State, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, are suspected of murdering Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, on Koh Tao in Thailand’s Surat Thani province on Sept. 15.

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of a legal team sent by the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok to represent the accused, told The Irrawaddy that Win Zaw Htun was assaulted and threatened after refusing to confess to the murders during a police interrogation.

Edited August 1, 2015 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[loonodingle]

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/offering-little-insight-koh-tao-witnesses-released-lawyer.html

Offering Little Insight, Koh Tao ‘Witnesses’ Released: Lawyer

CHIANG MAI, Thailand — Three Burmese witnesses in the double murder case on Thailand’s Koh Tao island have been released by authorities after giving testimony before a judge at a provincial court in Koh Samui on Tuesday.

<snip>

Maung Maung, a primary witness who is a close friend of the accused, told The Irrawaddy that he did not know anything about the crime. He is from a village in Arakan State’s Rathedaung Township and worked at the bar where the murder victims were last seen alive on Koh Tao, a popular diving island in southern Thailand’s Surat Thani province.

“I have only wanted to go back home since the day I was arrested,” said Maung Maung. “I know they [the accused] are not involved in the murder case.”

[fritzzz25]

Your argument that there must be a cover up because the police have not continued investigating after the suspects have been arrested and indicted it's probably one of the most absurd and illogical things said regarding this case, and that's saying a lot.

No police anywhere in the world will continue to look for culprits after they hand those they have uncovered to the judicial system, if they would have done that you'd be jumping up and down claiming that proves there's the men on trial are innocent.

You want your cake and eat it too, and can't figure out what the problem is with that.

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Show one instance, any at all, where police, after handing over who they think are the only culprits of a crime, continue to investigate looking for, not just other accomplices, but alternative culprits while a trial is underway and no verdict has been reached.

I don't expect you to provide any example, or recognize, in view of that, that your argument is absurd.

Why does it have to be police who investigate? Maybe there are others who want to know the truth, like private investigators, lawyers, lay-people etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project - here is your example of seeking alternative "culprits"

[fritzzz25]

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Why would they investigate this when they interviewed people at the bar including friends who didn't see such a thing? This is why it is rumor as NOBODY they have spoken to who was at the bar saw it. They police also testified that there was NOBODY on any of the video harassing her. The fact the cop said it was only rumor is something you cannot grasp, you want to hold on to the fact he didn't investigate something that had no only no merit but also that no witness they interviewed or video the viewed indicated the rumor had any credibility at all.

For God's sake there is still a moronic rumor they kid in Bangkok at the time was actually on the tisland. I am sure you want them to continue to pursue this rumor too since it is still a rumor despite them clearing the kid and confirming he was not on the island at the time.

You have to be joking ... with all the BS internet rumors they have wasted their time with, they should spend more time chasing down things that have no credible basis and escape any plausibility.

Is " they kid" you refer to young Nomsod, JTJ?

I stand corrected if you prove me wrong but I read somewhere that " they kid" was in BKK on the 13th and again on the 15th. Is there any evidence that " They kid' was in BKK on 14th which was very close to the date and time of the murders. I understand that until more video can be doctored there is no current evidence of him being in BKK on 14th.

My motive in coming to this forum is to try and promote the old fashioned idea of justice. Please remind us what your motive is, I seem to have forgotten. What is your relationship with the Head man's family?

Despite what you might have read somewhere (CSI Facebook perhaps, lol) he was cleared and police confirmed he was in Bangkok and was not on the island. Video, Phone Records, Witness, School Records are just some of the things we know to confirm this not to mention he voluntarily provided his DNA since police had no interest in being he wasn't on the island.

Surely posters here want to see the evidence themselves to confirm this despite the fact they will make idiotic and baseless claims it is forged or altered or lies and move the goal post further in what they will demand to prove somebody is innocent despite there being NOTHING to tie him to the crime or to suspect him beyond BS rumor.

It also amazes me the self importance that this case has brought to people in that they seem to believe their input and conspiracy theories matter one bit instead of accepting the fact their theories, based on what they don;t know, are meaningless in this case and their involvement in this case and trial is less significant than a gnat on a buffalo's behind. We are just meaningless people with internet access with an opinion -- the thought that this case is going to be decided or solved by internet detectives or that they conspiracy theorists will prove some vast cover-up took place is laughable. The only people being convinced are themselves -- I would suggest when the case is wrapped up these folks visit one the moon landing conspiracy forums to keep their skills up until the next big case comes up and they can jump on that bandwagon.

So you don't think a DNA test can be faked?

http://www.eyeondna.com/2008/04/13/how-to-fake-a-dna-test/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schneeberger

Schneeberger's blood sample was, however, found not to match the samples of the alleged rapist's semen, thus clearing him of suspicion. In 1993, at the victim's request, the test was repeated, but the result was negative, as well. In 1994, the case was closed.

Candice, still convinced that her recollections were true, hired Larry O'Brien, a private detective, to investigate the case. He broke into Schneeberger's car and obtained another DNA sample, which, this time, matched the semen on the victim's underwear and pants. As a result, a third official test was organized. The obtained blood sample was, however, found to be too small and of too poor quality to be useful for analysis.

In 1997, Lisa Schneeberger found out that her husband had repeatedly drugged and raped her 15-year-old daughter from her first marriage. She reported him to the police, which ordered a fourth DNA test. This time, multiple samples were taken: blood, mouth swab, and hair follicle. All three matched the rapist's semen.

During his 1999 trial, Schneeberger revealed the method he used to foil the DNA tests. He implanted a 15 cm Penrose drain filled with another man's blood and anticoagulants in his arm. During tests, he tricked the laboratory technician into taking the blood sample from the place the tube was planted.

And some more light reading for you http://injusticebusters.org/

Edited July 31, 2015 by fritzzz25

[loonodingle]

AleG, if you think the investigation should terminate once scapegoats suspects are put in prison with not bail, then we don't agree. I think the investigation should be on-going. In countries like the US, France and UK, where investigative sciences are miles ahead of Thailand's, investigators sometimes even dust-off crime files that are years old, in order to see whether all avenues were investigated thoroughly, and whether the right people are incarcerated. Granted, it couldn't happen in Thailand, but there's hope that Thai investigators will learn how to do their jobs in at least a semi-professional capacity - .....in the future perhaps?

Show one instance, any at all, where police, after handing over who they think are the only culprits of a crime, continue to investigate looking for, not just other accomplices, but alternative culprits while a trial is underway and no verdict has been reached.

I don't expect you to provide any example, or recognize, in view of that, that your argument is absurd.

Why does it have to be police who investigate? Maybe there are others who want to know the truth, like private investigators, lawyers, lay-people etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project - here is your example of seeking alternative "culprits"

There has been several private Investigators I can vouch for that.

[saminoz]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

I am well used to you being disingenuous JTJ, but with this post you have shown how low you will go, how you will use unrelated snippets to try to create a fiction to support your ultimate aim of protecting the island's elite, derailing sincere interest in justice and furthering the RTP sham. You should now publicly declare your vested interests in this case.

I know you have been following this case closely since day one and I also know that you are well aware that this team publicly declared their belief in the innocence of the two Burmese accused after this meeting. The two guys directly opposite the B2 and the guy to their left stood up at a press conference and stated this publicly.

To use this photo from Irrawaddy and then change the subject matter to suit your own agenda is very low and, possibly, criminal.

I didn't know what would come after you had previously lost your credibility, but this disgusting perversion of a post surprised even me.

I think you should apologise to the forum for this deliberate distortion of the facts of this part of the defense.

Shame on you.

Pathetic beyond words

[JohnThailandJohn]

Hey Loono, I responded to JTJ's sh1tty dishonest post earlier before seeing that you'd dug up the report of the press conference. Well done and K++ to you Sir.

Even a one eyed Gardener can see that which is posted and not made up!

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island ofKoh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol."

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured. Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September.

http://arakanindobhasaa.blogspot.com/2014/10/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says.html

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

I am well used to you being disingenuous JTJ, but with this post you have shown how low you will go, how you will use unrelated snippets to try to create a fiction to support your ultimate aim of protecting the island's elite, derailing sincere interest in justice and furthering the RTP sham. You should now publicly declare your vested interests in this case.

I know you have been following this case closely since day one and I also know that you are well aware that this team publicly declared their belief in the innocence of the two Burmese accused after this meeting. The two guys directly opposite the B2 and the guy to their left stood up at a press conference and stated this publicly.

To use this photo from Irrawaddy and then change the subject matter to suit your own agenda is very low and, possibly, criminal.

I didn't know what would come after you had previously lost your credibility, but this disgusting perversion of a post surprised even me.

I think you should apologise to the forum for this deliberate distortion of the facts of this part of the defense.

Shame on you.

Pathetic beyond words

This is picture of below meeting ....

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island ofKoh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, “We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol."

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured. Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September.

http://arakanindobhasaa.blogspot.com/2014/10/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says.html

[JohnThailandJohn]

Ohhhh John u stoop to some low depths don't you.

You have taken this photo from a piece that says they did not confess until beaten etc.....

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Well GB u r blind then Read the report he took the picture from.. what a daft @rse

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Headline.jpg

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

The picture of the above meeting described below can be found on numerous sites but your bizzare conspiracy theories lack common sense that we all know some sites are not able to be linked to here.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island ofKoh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol."

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured. Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September.

http://arakanindobhasaa.blogspot.com/2014/10/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says.html

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[happy Joe]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

Finally a common sense observation. I will do like you.

[JohnThailandJohn]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

That's just your version. Just wait and see what is revealed.

Finally a common sense observation. I will do like you.

On the face it really does make sense until you review the posts of the person you are responding and the outlandish unfounded speculative accusation he has made about who the killers are while ignoring things like the above that already happened and has been reported by numerous sources, includes quotes of the people involved and is not contradicted anywhere in the press or by the people involved and ONLY THEN replies with some bizarre notion he is going to wait and see about it (about a thing that has already happened). Not to mention he didn't wait and actually went on to try to discredit the "facts" I posted because the picture I used appears on numerous sites on the internet over a period of time.

Edited August 1, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[saminoz]

Ohhhh John u stoop to some low depths don't you.

You have taken this photo from a piece that says they did not confess until beaten etc.....

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

Well GB u r blind then Read the report he took the picture from.. what a daft @rse

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

Headline.jpg

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/burmese-suspects-koh-tao-murders-tortured-interrogation-lawyer.html

The picture of the above meeting described below can be found on numerous sites but your bizzare conspiracy theories lack common sense that we all know some sites are not able to be linked to here.

Officials from the Burmese embassy in Bangkok on Monday travelled to the neighbouring island ofKoh Samui to meet the two Arakanese migrants who have been remanded in custody pending murder and rape charges. The embassy officials, led by second secretary Htun Aye, were accompanied by Thai and Burmese lawyers, as well as migrant rights activists. The embassy said Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun signed over power of attorney to the legal team contracted by the embassy.

Speaking to DVB on Monday, Kyaw Thaung, a representative of the Myanmar Association in Thailand, who attended the interview with the defendants, said, We went to the prison [on Koh Samui] and were allowed to meet with the two freely. They confessed to committing the crime under the influence of alcohol."

A lawyer contracted by the Burmese embassy to defend two Burmese migrants accused of murdering a British couple on the Thai island of Koh Tao said the men confessed to the crimes on Monday, but told the legal team they had been tortured. Lawyer Aung Myo Thant said the pair, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, from the Arakanese town of Kyaukphyu, told a Burmese embassy legal team they had murdered English tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller by bludgeoning them to death with a hoe on 15 September.

http://arakanindobhasaa.blogspot.com/2014/10/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says.html

And there you go again. Despicable. You are pulling a story from early on (7th October) and about two weeks before the B2 had had decent access to legal representation and recanted their confessions on the grounds they had been tortured out of them.

You are also selectively quoting only lines which you want to portray the B2 in the worst possible light. From that same article, if you had been a little more level and honest you could have continued Lawyer Aung Myo Thant's comments to include "However, he said, their stories were “somewhat inconsistent” and “their faces portrayed fear”. “From what we have learned, there are inconsistencies with both the forensic report and evidence provided in the case,” said Aung Myo Thant.“The defendants kept repeating that they were very drunk that night. Based on what we have been told, it seems to us like this case is a set-up and not based on hard facts.”

Clearly, after having received legal advice, the two were able to provide information on the torture and were subsequently allowed to recant their confessions.

At a press conference (http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/koh-tao-suspects-innocent-govt-investigation-team.html) in December (two months after your subject matter), after they had been allowed more time to talk to the B2 and to realise what had gone on before, these two same lawyers you quoted issued this statement: “However the Thai judiciary decides on the case, it is our belief that these two kids did not commit the crime,” said Htoo Chit, a spokesman for the investigation. “According to what we know and eyewitness information we have gathered, we believe they are innocent.”

This same lawyer, Aung Myo Thant went on to say " that the translator used during the police interrogation of the suspects falsely claimed to be a representative of the embassy, and told the suspects that they would be subject to a lighter penalty if they admitted their guilt."

Your habit or strategy of taking selective phrases out of a story just to pursue your aim of seeing these two kids found guilty is a great discredit to you and an affront to this forum. I cannot see any reason for you doing this except for you being rewarded for doing so or having a serious vested interest such as ownership of business interests or partnerships with certain parties on Death Island.

You could simply come clean and declare your interest. My interest is in justice and seeing a fair, professional investigation and the real perpetrators brought to book, WHOEVER THEY ARE!!

Stop using these out of date quotes to further your agenda. You constantly do it with the family statements and now are doing the same with these lawyer's comments. You owe the forum a little more respect than that.

(Sorry about using the red bold font people, I just thought I'd try a little of JTJ's warped attention grabbing on him, for a change! )

Edited August 1, 2015 by saminoz

[JohnThailandJohn]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

And there you go again. Despicable. You are pulling a story from early on (7th October) and about two weeks before the B2 had had decent access to legal representation and recanted their confessions on the grounds they had been tortured out of them.

Should we discount the murdered even took place and all the crime scene info since it all happened before the 7th of October? This is some real strange logic you have. The confessed to their legal team, their embassy and rights workers outside police presence while also not being scared to tell them at the same time police abused them. This is fact and it happened, no matter how much you want to ignore it.

Just posts earlier you were saying what I posted was dishonest. Now you have found a new excuse to bury your head in the sand as you will do with anything that doesn't fit what your imagination wants to believe.

Edited August 1, 2015 by JohnThailandJohn

[saminoz]

In a meeting with their embassy representatives, lawyer and right works the two defendants stated police threatened & abused while also admitting they did in fact kill the two but stated the were drunk and didn't mean to kill them. They of course have now changed their story and replaced their lawyer who was at this meeting out side of police presence.

And there you go again. Despicable. You are pulling a story from early on (7th October) and about two weeks before the B2 had had decent access to legal representation and recanted their confessions on the grounds they had been tortured out of them.

Should we discount the murdered even took place and all the crime scene info since it all happened before the 7th of October? This is some real strange logic you have. The confessed to their legal team, their embassy and rights workers outside police presence while also not being scared to tell them at the same time police abused them. This is fact and it happened, no matter how much you want to ignore it.

Just posts earlier you were saying what I posted was dishonest. Now you have found a new excuse to bury your head in the sand as you will do with anything that doesn't fit what your imagination wants to believe.

I am beginning to think you are either clinically insane or mentally defective. Your post doesn't make any sense at all!

They confessed at a time that they were, no doubt, petrified and after the Roti Seller, who had illegally posed as a representative of that same embassy, had advised them to admit guilt return for better treatment. They recanted those forced confessions once they felt safe enough to do so! What part of that can you not understand?

The same two lawyers you have selectively quoted are on public record, much, much later saying that they do NOT believe the two are guilty.

Try to keep up. Good grief!!! Are you really this obtuse in real life?

You manage to plumb new depths of negative credibility!!! You have become little more than a joke on this forum and you still owe the members an apology for your blatant attempts to distort the reports.