When I hear other farangs dissing Chiang Mai ... I get irritated

[Thakkar]

Thai also call African people farang sometime, it doesn't mean anything. Sometime an Asian with an American accent are called farang as well. Farang in Thai never has any racial meaning at all.

I have been called "Khek" "Farang" and "Loh"

Only the last has any effect on me, my reaction to which dependent on the whereabouts of Mrs T at the instance.

T

[Konini]

(In Malaysia they don't have this problem, they call us all European, which can have an underlying meaning of questioning, affectionate, humorous, condescending, derisive and much, much more, depending on......).

I have lived in Malaysia for several years and was never called "European". They called me Mat Salleh, which comes from mad sailor, or Ang Moh, red haired (even though my hair is grey). All in good spirits and I never thought much of it.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. Europeans is something I shouldn't have heard I think - it was more than once when a group of friends (mostly of Indian extraction) were talking about foreigners in general. I suppose now thinking about it that they pulled themselves up a bit when they saw I could hear, and a couple of times corrected themselves and said westener. I always wondered how they would refer to a West Indian Brit, whether they would also be European, because they are British and European by birth (but Caribbean/African by ethnicity), but I always thought it impolite to ask. The people who I heard it from were and still are very good friends, who invited us into their family - not rich, but struggling middle class and such good, generous people. We have (yet another) wedding in KK in a couple of months.

Personally, I am just called 'Auntie' by everybody. The first time I was called it I was a bit shocked - that's for OLD women, not me! Then I realised that I am old, and it's really nice of them to be comfortable enough with me to call me auntie. Maybe I've missed something, but I've never seen our friends call other English and Australia women that I've met at the various wedding we've attended; they were very polite, formal and dare I say a little subservient, perhaps, with other Caucasians, always referring to and calling them by name rather than auntie and uncle. I've been called auntie in shops and on buses before, so I know that the lower part of society (what a horrible phrase, I just can't think of the correct one to use at the moment) has no problem with calling strangers auntie, but the aspiring middle class seem to be a little more restrained about it.

I love Malaysia. We spent several months there a few years ago, and when we decided we'd had enough travelling and wanted to settle somewhere, we knew it was going to be either Chiang Mai or an hour or so south of KL. In the end, Chiang Mai won out, but I really enjoy going back there, and not only for the amazing home cooked Indian food (the older aunties have guided me through making chapatis and all sorts of other things I was having problems with by standing over me in their kitchens watching me make them and correcting me as I went). As I said, very good and generous people.

[elgenon]

What pisses me off is the coverage of Thailand by American media. 90% is about how bad aids is in Thailand. It's the Puritan ethic that still prevails. If you enjoy women there must be consequences. The Thai philosophy of Sanuk is anathema.

Most Americans have no understanding of anything outside of their domestic cacoons and dont care to. In fact I would say that if you told the average American you were traveling to a foreign country they would wonder why you would want to. If you travel you tend to meet fellow Americans from the West and East Coasts. Comparatively few others travel abroad.

I believe this results in a lack of empathy for other peoples, that's why we find it so easy to wage war.

Sorry for jumping on the soapbox. I think it relates to what you said

[meltingpot2015]

I think the title should be - when I hear other farangs anyone dissing Chiang Mai ... I get irritated.

If you love a place, should it matter who does the dissing.

[Beetlejuice]

Everytime I go to Chiang Mai I can't wait to leave. Why anyone lives there is beyond me.

If you're defensive about that shit hole, what else are you on about?

Not true.

Most of the Chiang Mai residents take their vacations in Bangkok when they know you are arriving in town.

[Tywais]

Why has this topic been allowed to be railroaded for so long?

A bunch more off topic posts removed. Odd as it may seem, I have another busy life outside of TV.

[orang37]

While feeling that the swarm of digressions, and reactions, around the phosphorescent glimmer turned arc-light-glare given out by this thread has grown so large it's probably over-ripe ...

I just would like to register my personal opinion that it is possible to live here, in Chiang Mai, to be soberly aware of the problems of this society, economic, political, social, cultural, to not be naive about what the Police do and don't do here, and to have deep compassion for the waste of human potential here, deep concern for the abuses that occur here ... and to be without the "moral relativism" that says: "if it happens everywhere, then it's all the same ..."

... and ... to treasure the rich heritage of this dynamic multi-ethnic culture, to enjoy the positive aspects of Thai social life ... and, if you learn to speak the language, and live outside the "farang ghettoes," to really treasure the warmth, good humor, and honesty of "ordinary" Thais.

To love this place, "warts and all."

cheers, ~o:37;

[Thakkar]

Orang,

Were you aware that most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife? I'm curious if you've ever looked at the domestic abuse statistics. Or, given the reputation of the police force around here, what kind of role that plays in frequencies of crimes, their investigations, and justice in general. One can only wonder what kind of effect that has on things here...

While there is high incidence of domestic violence in Thailand, that does not mean "most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife". That's quite an inferential leap.

Even among the subset of Thais who commit such acts, an appreciable number would be aware that it is not ok.

T

[LarryBird]

Orang,

Were you aware that most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife? I'm curious if you've ever looked at the domestic abuse statistics. Or, given the reputation of the police force around here, what kind of role that plays in frequencies of crimes, their investigations, and justice in general. One can only wonder what kind of effect that has on things here...

While there is high incidence of domestic violence in Thailand, that does not mean "most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife". That's quite an inferential leap.

Even among the subset of Thais who commit such acts, an appreciable number would be aware that it is not ok.

T

I am quoting a poll I will try to find later..

[Thakkar]

Orang,

Were you aware that most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife? I'm curious if you've ever looked at the domestic abuse statistics. Or, given the reputation of the police force around here, what kind of role that plays in frequencies of crimes, their investigations, and justice in general. One can only wonder what kind of effect that has on things here...

While there is high incidence of domestic violence in Thailand, that does not mean "most Thais think it is ok to hit your wife". That's quite an inferential leap.

Even among the subset of Thais who commit such acts, an appreciable number would be aware that it is not ok.

T

I am quoting a poll I will try to find later..

I'd be interested. Please pm me, as this thread has been hijacked enough.

T

[ronz28]

I suspect the guy back home has just heard or read one too many media adds by a blood sucker wanting him to send them his money to help those poor victims. I hear this baloney all the time and in some cases they actually track down the fraudster who puts out the "send me your money" adds and holds them accountable. http://kxan.com/2014/12/22/woman-accused-in-gofundme-fraud-faces-new-charge/

[LarryBird]

Red Qualia, did you retire here, or did you come here for work? (Non teaching work)

Edited July 13, 2015 by LarryBird

[pizzachang]

At the risk of turning this into another thread about the term "farang" yes there are Thai people who consider it a perjorative. Or at least a coarse word. Kind of like referring to the Uighur refugees as breeding animals (i.e. "litters" of children)

Nonsense.

Not when it is used alone.

I use farang when asking for guava at the talaat.

[pizzachang]

Orang37,

Great post! People just like to imagine that where THEY ARE is the best( because THEY are there) Ignoring the dogsh*t in your own yard is easier if you are concentrating on the neighbors yard.

As another poster suggested, there seems to be an unusual suspicion concerning the motives of males( including retired males) in S.E. Asia. Seldom do you see the same assaults on the character of men visiting/ retiring in European countries. Sensationalist journalism has done the damage, with contributions from military personnel (IMO). I imagine that you can find exploiters concentrated in certain areas and certain cities - not just in Thailand but in European cities as well. Here in Chiang Mai, I've met no men just here to 'take advantage of loose women or loose morals'. Every person I associate with is here for climate, economy, adventure, friendship(and marriage) and the enjoyment of a foreign culture.

[LarryBird]

I'm curious, if someone were to ask you all about the Koh Tao murder trial, would you go on to find a flaw with the country of the questioner? Or, would you acknowledge that there is a MAJOR problem with the criminal just system here, but explain that you still feel safe, and enjoy life here?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Nah, the money argument about how far it goes here gets less every year. Rural America is pretty much the same as Chiang Mai for retired living. Some things cost more, others less. And compared to places like Bangkok or Phuket it's not even in doubt anymore; most places in America are way cheaper to live compared to those. (Most places = "not New York, LA, but all the stuff in the middle", of which there is a lot.)

Edited July 14, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[FolkGuitar]

I would. And so would many of my friends. There is no 'perfect place,' the sort that fantasy novels talk about. Some places are better than others, some are worse. We choose to live in the place that suits us best, and pay little but lip service to the things that we don't care for. If those things become too great an inconvenience, we move on. Many of us have lived in several different countries, several different cities or towns, having tried rural living vs urban, fast track or slow. We already know what we don't want to put up with, and so avoid it. both on the large scale and small. Petty problems can often become major in our own minds, and then we have to deal with them. How we deal with them is completely up to us. Choices... it all boils down to choices.

Me? I choose to live in Asia. I don't like what the US has become over the past 50 years, and it's not going to get much better in my lifetime. I do like what Asia is becoming. Even with all the changes in Chiang Mai over the past 15 years, and many of them changes that I don't particularly care for, it's still the city that thinks it's a small town. I like that. I don't like the traffic problem in Chiang Mai so I stopped driving a car in town. One problem solved! And that was 'my' biggest problem with Chiang Mai. The little ones simply aren't important... Life is too short to worry about trivia.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Tywais
Removed deleted quote

[Tywais]

Post and replies removed due to the below on going policy. Be careful guys, the current political environment is too dangerous to TV and members to ignore this policy.

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[DaddyWarbucks]

I would. And so would many of my friends. There is no 'perfect place,' the sort that fantasy novels talk about. Some places are better than others, some are worse. We choose to live in the place that suits us best, and pay little but lip service to the things that we don't care for. If those things become too great an inconvenience, we move on. Many of us have lived in several different countries, several different cities or towns, having tried rural living vs urban, fast track or slow. We already know what we don't want to put up with, and so avoid it. both on the large scale and small. Petty problems can often become major in our own minds, and then we have to deal with them. How we deal with them is completely up to us. Choices... it all boils down to choices.

Me? I choose to live in Asia. I don't like what the US has become over the past 50 years, and it's not going to get much better in my lifetime. I do like what Asia is becoming. Even with all the changes in Chiang Mai over the past 15 years, and many of them changes that I don't particularly care for, it's still the city that thinks it's a small town. I like that. I don't like the traffic problem in Chiang Mai so I stopped driving a car in town. One problem solved! And that was 'my' biggest problem with Chiang Mai. The little ones simply aren't important... Life is too short to worry about trivia.

Excellent post.

Articulate and well-considered.

[orang37]

I'm curious, if someone were to ask you all about the Koh Tao murder trial, would you go on to find a flaw with the country of the questioner? Or, would you acknowledge that there is a MAJOR problem with the criminal just system here, but explain that you still feel safe, and enjoy life here?

Well, I might reply by attempting to articulate in English one of the teachings of Ur-Orang ... adapted, of course ... to the context at hand ... with the caveat, of course ... that this flawed instrument attempting to be an amanuensis for an Orangutan mind-soul he shares a meat-body with ...said Orang, 37th. of his Name, in turn, relating a morphemic transcription of an esoteric teaching from an incorporeal cosmic being ... can only produce a literally second-hand translation; ergo:

"What has led you to need to reduce to a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't shibboleth of a question the profound moral paradoxes encountered in trying to understand the nature of our relationship/consciousness/responsibility to self, others, and society ?"

In my experience, the seeking of "easy answers," of "binary realities," is often a side-effect of an (often unconscious) attempt to avoid "difficult questions," to banish ambiguity, to forget the tingling in our scars that dares remind us of old wounds.

However, on another occasion, in another context, I might respond with a quote like this one:

"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the 'Universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest ... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein

~o:37;

Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary; this offer may not be valid in your state. My objects in your mirror are closer than they appear.

[CMKiwi]

<deleted>..... Anyone hope to interpret the above into normal human or at least English speak?

[amexpat]

Pardon me, Sharktooth, but that requires a lot of scrolling on a smart phone to get to your one-line comment.

If you can post in a different way, I'm sure it would be appreciated. Thanks for your attention. Have a good un.

Edited July 14, 2015 by amexpat

[phrodan]

This is a link that was given to me by a Thai citizen with a degree from CMU in Thai language:

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=RssPMqruX6kC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=farang+loan+word&source=bl&ots=nFRwsw6JdG&sig=DH88sogvfqIMx9Rgg7jRtzB4HVI&hl=th&sa=X&ei=zXFYVfS2B8u1uQT_kYHACw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=farang%20loan%20word&f=false

Yup - excellent link. And it's astonishing the amount of times you'll here people tell "Guava," jokes below the nose of Westerners. I heard an attractive young lady telling a Guava joke while pointing in my direction at a restaurant. She and her companions were astonished when I pulled her up for it. Astonished, embarrassed - and then followed by an apology. Farang means "whitey," as in white skin, as in the white flesh of Guava.

This constant French reference that people make is laughable. The Portuguese were here centuries before the French. If you ask the average Westerner in Thailand if they knew that, they wouldn't have a clue. Then they would go on to lecture you about the French origin of "farang."

It's a bit pathetic, really.

[thaibeachlovers]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of schoolkids.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Edited July 14, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[TheAppletons]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of ling.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Yeah, that 20 baht is a real budget killer....the nerve of those guys!

[chiang mai]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of ling.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Too funny, really!

[MESmith]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of ling.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Which parallel universe are you living in?

[thaibeachlovers]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of ling.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Yeah, that 20 baht is a real budget killer....the nerve of those guys!

55555555555555555555555 Oh you are killing me laughing at your wit.

Try 100 baht from near Thapae Gate to Immigration and that was from at least 15 songtheaws- scum sucking robbers all. Up to me I'd nuke the whole place and start again.

[thaibeachlovers]

Add me to your diss list. I hate C M Traffic and the road system was designed by ( IMO ) a bunch of ling.

I will go to almost any length to avoid driving in C M and refuse to go anywhere other than the direct route to Central Airport.

The red songtheaws are a rip off (usually ), and the lack of pedestrian lights on the moat is a disgrace.

Which parallel universe are you living in?

What alternate universe do you inhabit with more than 2 pedestrian lights on the moat?

GIve me Pattaya over C M anytime. At least Patters has a nightlife, unlike the grotty bunch of decrepit bars along a busy road that passes for entertainment in the black hole of nightlife that is C M.

10 baht on the baht bus route too.

[chiang mai]

Clearly you're a man of great fortitude and tolerance if you asked at least 15 songtheaws to quote and you didn't accept any of them, how long did that take you and how did you finally get to Immigration?