Making Your Own Biodiesel

[Maizefarmer]

KHUN JEAN - and thats another consideration with respect to using not only Coconut oil , but also Palm oil - you are quite right - it has other uses for which producers can get significantly more than what is paid for it a s a base for the production of biodiesel.

Rapeseed - you can buy rapeseed for around Baht 3000 per ton of seed. That will give you around 700 - 750 litres of biodeisel.

Do the math - thats around Baht 4.5 - 5 per litre - say Baht 6 - Baht 7 gross price (after cost of crushing, cleaning & washing, additon of methanol and whatever else you have to do to it - which is pretty much the same as orther "seeds" used for bio deisel).

Has anyone thought of that? -

Rapeseed by the way is produced only for its oil - the production of its oil, which is used by the pharmacuetical, food and healthcare/makeup industries.

For those who are intrested in biodeisel because of its "clean earth" advantages, rapeseed is one of the cleanest burning bio fuels (wether its a car, a boiler whatever .....)

Tim

Edited September 30, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[Maizefarmer]

Welcome back, Maizie, you were missed.

Thanks

Tim

[chownah]

Because there are people that sell it for 300 baht a litre and even make a bigger pile of money. See another thread on the health forum. (Virgin coconut oil)

And it is used in the food industry and they also make a pile of money.

It is the latest health food hype. Although it is very healthy it is not the cure for all as some would like to tell.

And making a big pile of money as a normal person in Thailand means only one thing. Six pieces of wood and and six feet deep.

If i would stay in Thailand forever i would invest in coconut orchards. They are cheap now, and will be a lot more expensive in the future.

And i would produce coconut oil for food and cosmetic market on a small and profitable niche market.

Government is pitching on palm oil for diesel, although it has more produce per rai it requires other chemicals which cost extra money. Guess who are the main suppliers of methanol and ethanol.

A CNN web site dated sept this year said that coconut oil on the world market is at about 350 US dollars per tonne or 0.35 US dollars per kilogram or about 13 baht per kilogram. It sounds like your 12 baht per litre production cost is ballpark reasonable at least!!!! I guess all that you have to do is to start producing and marketing!!!

MaizeFarmer,

If someone here could produce a coconut oil product that was adequate in every way as a diesel fuel, would you be willing to buy it from them?...and what price would you be willing to pay?....be generous!

Chownah

Edited September 30, 2006 by chownah

[chownah]

Khun Jean,

Since the price of coconut oil on the world market is about 13 baht per litre, and since it seems to me that I read that it either needs no processing or minimal processing...then...why doesn't someone just buy some and use it? Thai's are very cost conscious and will cut corners to save a few baht but I've never heard of anyone using coconut oil as diesel fuel....I just can't figure out why not. Could it be that people are afraid that it will ruin thier engines? I certainly wouldn't put it in my pickup....not worth the risk to save a few baht. If I had an old two wheel tractor I might try it but mine is almost new and I wouldn't want to risk it. Maybe if someone who really believes in coconut oil bought a two wheeled tractor and ran it on coconut oil as a demonstration....went around to show farmers...maybe let them borrow it in exchange for buying the fuel.....seems like there should be some way to convince people of its safety.....if it is safe that is.

Chownah

[Khun Jean]

Mister diesel who designed the engine designed it for use with all kinds of oil. It is a great threat to the oil industry. People are made scared by car and engine manufactorers. People scared of loosing their factory guarantee will not 'risk' it. In reality the factory should extend their warrenty when you use coconut exclusively.

For me it is easier, i never buy something new that deprecates in value very quick.

I used to have an Opel car with a 1.5 diesel engine.

Never changed the oil (another scare tactic in my opinion, todays synthetic oils are everlasting) just added when needed, only changed the air filter and oil filter ones in a while. You do need to take out the contaminations and small particles in the oil . It ran great. I sold it when the meter showed 250.000+ kilometers.

It got checked at a garage before the sale and it was in a very good condition considering its age and milage.

Driving style is a much greater risk for an engine.

Like driving quickly when the engine is still cold. A real killer.

Most research for fuel including alternatieve fuels is done by oil companies. You can guess why. Hoping to find THE solution to cheap energie and then protect it with patents to make it expensive again. A lot is at stake. Governments will loose tax, so be prepared that producing biodiesels will be taxed.

If you source ethanol or methanol for making biodiesel the oil company is there again. Price for methanol/ethanol will be raised to make biodiesel expensive.

So there you are again at the coconut, You need land, water, sunshine and coconut trees. For small scale you need a cutter, a rasp, a heater and a press or a pan and patience. A complete fuel factory in your backgarden or even your kitchen.

Read this document:

http://www.extremesamoa.com/myweb5/coconut...0for%20fuel.pdf

and this:

http://www.tve.org/ho/doc.cfm?aid=1431〈=English

(Make sure above addresses are on one line!)

and make the decision. Can not be brainwashed all the time now do we.

And if not convinced, try it on some old engine or generator.

I used it in an old Toyota pickup. Worked great, after a while it even ran smoother. Sold it as now i am in Bangkok and prefer a taxi. I guess it is still running, although on diesel again i think.

Google: Coconut diesel Philppines

A lot of links you'll see are about using coconut as a replacement for diesel.

It is NOT something new.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Khun Jean

[chownah]

MaizeFarmer,

Any interest in switching to coconut oil? What is you take on this.....about $350 per tonne for crude coconut oil....comes out to about 13 baht per kg. Even a light processing would probably leave the price well below 20 baht per litre. It sounds do-able....do you think?

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

If I could get hold of of 1 ton coconut oil at Bhat 13 per/kg - you bet, as you said even after cleaning it up and adding your methanol ect ect.........it would come in at less than Baht20 per liter (I reckon around Baht 16 - 17) - yes, thats around 40% saving - yup, I'd go for that - would save a ton in tractor diesel bills.

But note - I said coconut oil - what I dont want to find myself with is enough coconuts for a ton of oil. That means I then have to spend the time and labour taking the husks off, crushing the pods, filtering and then having to bin all that waste - in that case, I would nt want to spend more than around Baht 7 - 9 (possible 10 per liter) because that is what I can get cooking oil for locally.

Delievered to the farm gate/front door - clean coconut oil at Baht 13 per liter - I'll take 3 tons for cash payment to the seller, and then at the same time do 3 tons used cooking oil - that will be a reasonable quantity of eacg to make a good comparitive side by side expriment - both interms of time involved in getting it to good quality bio diesel, and the cost.

Tim

[Khun Jean]

If I could get hold of of 1 ton coconut oil at Bhat 13 per/kg - you bet, as you said even after cleaning it up and adding your methanol ect ect.........it would come in at less than Baht20 per liter (I reckon around Baht 16 - 17) - yes, thats around 40% saving - yup, I'd go for that - would save a ton in tractor diesel bills.

???? This is what i was trying to make clear. You DON'T need methanol,etc.. etc.. You can use it like it is! You might mix it with diesel if you live in the north and temperatures drop below 22 celsius.

Just make sure your oil is not been hydrogenated. Use the raw product. The oil is clear as waterand when the right process is used only a simple filter will be sufficient. Again NO chemicals needed.

But note - I said coconut oil - what I dont want to find myself with is enough coconuts for a ton of oil. That means I then have to spend the time and labour taking the husks off, crushing the pods, filtering and then having to bin all that waste - in that case, I would nt want to spend more than around Baht 7 - 9 (possible 10 per liter) because that is what I can get cooking oil for locally.

There is NO waste. Everything can be used. It can be sold!, to lower the price of the final product you need! If you have live stock you can lower the food bill, the white coconut meat is very nutritious and high in fiber, an excellent product. Even the coconut water is a healthy drink, also for humans. If you don't have animals, maybe your neighbour has. You can probably make a deal and he will save on animal food.

If you need charcoal or other fuel for burning you would save on that too. Don't throw it in the bin, for other products it is a valuable source. You can find people who pay you for it and pick it up.

You might also find people who can do the process for you. You buy the coconuts, they extract the oil and get a little money per liter, and they keep the rest of the coconut to sell. It can work out profitable for both parties. If there are local coconut orchards, you can probably buy the oil from them and let them worry about the by products.

Use this for a small reference of what can be done with a coconut.

A Versatile Commodity

Coconut is a very useful resource, not only for producing oil. The coconut fibre from the nut, known as coir, can be processed into mats, rope, fabrics, brushes and a biodegradable packaging material as an alternative to expanded polystyrene, as well as an environmentally friendly alternative to peat for potting and bedding plants. The coconut shell is good for making charcoal for fuel, and activated charcoal for purifying water and other liquids and gases.

The residue from the pressing of the oil makes a good animal feed. The oil itself can be used for cooking. It can also be used as fuel for lamps.

I had fun making small amounts for my personal use. I am very interested in results if you go for it.

[udon]

Does anyone have a link to current prices paid IN Thailand for coconuts?

[a3]

Dumb question here , what is the cost of Diesel in LOs right now ?

[Maizefarmer]

If I could get hold of of 1 ton coconut oil at Bhat 13 per/kg - you bet, as you said even after cleaning it up and adding your methanol ect ect.........it would come in at less than Baht20 per liter (I reckon around Baht 16 - 17) - yes, thats around 40% saving - yup, I'd go for that - would save a ton in tractor diesel bills.

???? This is what i was trying to make clear. You DON'T need methanol,etc.. etc.. You can use it like it is! You might mix it with diesel if you live in the north and temperatures drop below 22 celsius.

Just make sure your oil is not been hydrogenated. Use the raw product. The oil is clear as waterand when the right process is used only a simple filter will be sufficient. Again NO chemicals needed.

But note - I said coconut oil - what I dont want to find myself with is enough coconuts for a ton of oil. That means I then have to spend the time and labour taking the husks off, crushing the pods, filtering and then having to bin all that waste - in that case, I would nt want to spend more than around Baht 7 - 9 (possible 10 per liter) because that is what I can get cooking oil for locally.

There is NO waste. Everything can be used. It can be sold!, to lower the price of the final product you need! If you have live stock you can lower the food bill, the white coconut meat is very nutritious and high in fiber, an excellent product. Even the coconut water is a healthy drink, also for humans. If you don't have animals, maybe your neighbour has. You can probably make a deal and he will save on animal food.

If you need charcoal or other fuel for burning you would save on that too. Don't throw it in the bin, for other products it is a valuable source. You can find people who pay you for it and pick it up.

You might also find people who can do the process for you. You buy the coconuts, they extract the oil and get a little money per liter, and they keep the rest of the coconut to sell. It can work out profitable for both parties. If there are local coconut orchards, you can probably buy the oil from them and let them worry about the by products.

Use this for a small reference of what can be done with a coconut.

A Versatile Commodity

Coconut is a very useful resource, not only for producing oil. The coconut fibre from the nut, known as coir, can be processed into mats, rope, fabrics, brushes and a biodegradable packaging material as an alternative to expanded polystyrene, as well as an environmentally friendly alternative to peat for potting and bedding plants. The coconut shell is good for making charcoal for fuel, and activated charcoal for purifying water and other liquids and gases.

The residue from the pressing of the oil makes a good animal feed. The oil itself can be used for cooking. It can also be used as fuel for lamps.

I had fun making small amounts for my personal use. I am very interested in results if you go for it.

ADMIN - depedning on where you are in LOS its around Baht 26 to 27 per litre

KHUN JEAN - I cant argue with your obsevations - they are correct and I note your comments with respect to the by products.

My point is this: I dont want the "hassle" of having to get tied up with the waste products. Why?

Firstly, althought in theory the white flesh can be used as a feed additive, in all practicality the amount of coconuts I would have to process to include the white flesh as feed additive of any significant contribution to the rations would be so much that the amount of time I would have to spend crushing that qauntity of coconuts to get that flesh volume, would mean I'd have to spend all my time crushing coconuts - and I can assure you, that unless I was running a biodeisel plant on a commercial basis, I would then be loosing money - as this is a cattle farm - not a biodeisel farm.

In theory you are right, but once again I come back to the old practicality theme to a lot of what I say: it has to be looked at in context, and in the context that I have described to you (i.e. this is dairy and beef farm), I would need to be producing around 500kg - 1000 kg of flesh per day which means I wouldnt be running a farm - I owuld be crushing coconuts all day.

Secondly, I cant justify the time of having to collect or have delivered to me coconuts that have to be processed. No sense in that Khun Jene, because if I am (as you sugest is a possible option) going to have to find someone to process them for me - and then return the oil or I collect it myself, I am effectively back in square one i.e. I am now having to go through all these steps to obtain the oil - which is all I need. Baring in mind the above paragraph - I am better off not having to worry about all of this, but to just get the oil in the first place.

Yes you are right, the husk material can be used for mats, for fire fuel ect..... but again - if looked at in terms of the amount I owuld need to produce to justify it as a "business" versus what I need, is quite different - and when I say to justify it as a business, I mean I will land up having to spend all my time dealing with coconuts.

I see where you are coming from - as a commercial exercise that is setup to derive an income from biodeseil, then yes, what you are sdaying rings true. But as an exercise that is setup to reduce as much as possible the fuel bill associated with the business I conduct (farming), the added logistics and time associated with the methodolgy you suggest (i.e. starting off with the whole coconut), would outweigh the financial return when compared with what else can be done with that time on a commercial farm.

I would still have a lower fuel bill, but the differance when compared with just having to worry about the oil as opposed to the the whole coconut would actually mean a slightly higher cost than just having to deal with the oil. The problem lies not in the value of the added benefits of the waste material (flesh and husk) but in the time asscoaited with that waste material versus its value aginst the amount I need and what can otherwise be done with that time.

Different story if it was a commercial exercise - but then there are lots of things that make more money than farming, its just that I am a farmer,

Do you see where I am coming from on this - the only thing that is good to me in my circumstances would be the oil I need (wether its cocnut oil or used cooking oil or whatever).

The methanol side of it - yes you are correct it is not absolutely essential, but bare in mind that temperatures in Loei get down to 5degree Celsuis in winter - and that is not unusual. Also Meth does improve combustion and reduce residue, and while you are correct in stating it is not needed, I am inclined to consider the additonal extra cost as been a justifiable additive to get the slight benefits it offers. Thats a personal choice issue.

In summary - the theory sounds good but in practise the figures will not add up using your methodolgy when looked at aginst the background of the quantity need versus the time having to be spent producing it, aginst what that time cab spent doing (and earning additional income) on a farm this size.

Tim

Edited September 30, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[Maizefarmer]

Okay - cows milked, milk in the cooling tank - everything washed down, I'm off to get a cup of coffe and back to bed for a few hours.

Thanks fo the postings - will catch up with all later in the morning.

Oh Khun Jean - I am dead serious on this Bio diesel idea - I have great big diesel bill which is between Baht 20K - 43K per month (dpedning on time of year) - if a can reduce that by 40% (baring in mind the amount of time I would need to spemd prodcuing that fuel) , I am interested in all ideas.

Tim

[chownah]

OK then. We need to find out how to buy bulk crude coconut oil by the tonne off of the world market or at least at world market prices.....this is assuming that the link I found which quoted 350 dollar US per tonne is in fact accurate....Anyone know where there is a coconut oil expelling plant in Thailand...or anywhere else for that matter?......Also, wouldn't bulk crude coconut oil be sold at a commodities market?....like a stock exchange but only for materials not stocks?

Edited October 1, 2006 by chownah

[lannarebirth]

OK then. WE need to find out how to buy bulk crude coconut oil by the tonne off of the world market or at least at world market prices.....this is assuming that the link I found which quoted 350 dollar US per tonne is in fact accurate....Anyone know where there is a coconut oil expelling plant in Thailand...or anywhere else for that matter?......

I find this an extremely helpful site when searching for products throughout Asia. You can redefine the search more if you like.

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?CatId=...ude+coconut+oil

[udon]

OK then. We need to find out how to buy bulk crude coconut oil by the tonne off of the world market or at least at world market prices.....this is assuming that the link I found which quoted 350 dollar US per tonne is in fact accurate....Anyone know where there is a coconut oil expelling plant in Thailand...or anywhere else for that matter?......Also, wouldn't bulk crude coconut oil be sold at a commodities market?....like a stock exchange but only for materials not stocks?

Only a guess..... Samui? 80 million trees.

Jean, you used to live there !

Anything?

[udon]

http://www.goldenagro.com/coco_oil.html

Contact Person: Mr. bal kishan kayan

Job Title: ceo

Address: 23 soi saraphi 2 prachapitok rd., klongsan, bangkok, thailand, Thailand

Zip/Postal Code: 10600

Telephone: 66-186-99045

Fax: 66-286-15719

Mobile Phone: +6618699045

Website: http://www.goldenagro.com

[Khun Jean]

The methanol side of it - yes you are correct it is not absolutely essential, but bare in mind that temperatures in Loei get down to 5degree Celsuis in winter - and that is not unusual. Also Meth does improve combustion and reduce residue, and while you are correct in stating it is not needed, I am inclined to consider the additonal extra cost as been a justifiable additive to get the slight benefits it offers. Thats a personal choice issue.

In summary - the theory sounds good but in practise the figures will not add up using your methodolgy when looked at aginst the background of the quantity need versus the time having to be spent producing it, aginst what that time cab spent doing (and earning additional income) on a farm this size.

Tim

MAIZEFARMER, thanks for explaining your business you are in.

I just had to go on the information i have, and started from the most ideal situation..

In your situation i understand that you are already running a farm, running an fuel plant next to it would not be practical.

I want to make some remarks though about methanol in combination with coconut oil. You are absolutely right you need it with other kind of oils. Coconut oil however doesn't need it. In your situation that would be an advantage because you can skip this step.

In the coconut oil there is a small percentage of oxygen, not found in other oils. This will help to get a better combustion. Tests have profen that there is a lot less residue compared with normal diesel.

For using coconut oil in cold temperatures you can mix diesel, or even better kerosene. And for the milder temperaturs from 15-20 celsius you can think about fuel heaters. It depends a lot what kind of vehicles or engines yu use.

Switching from diesel to coconut oil demands some experimenting to find the the right solution for your specific needs. I want to suggest you try to mix it first with kerosene or diesel.

Kerosene percentage in the range of 5-15%. Diesel anywhere between 10-50%.

This will not be a chemical reaction which will be much more difficult to control and experiment with. Mixing is a lot easier and cleaner.

UDON, I lived between the coconuts on Samui.

The owner of the land collected coconuts twice a year. She did not do that herself but had people (and monkeys) do that. I am always curious, i asked her as much as i could about her former business. (She was one of the people who did not sell her land but build bungalows and houses herself).

She paid 90 baht per 100 coconuts collected. Then she sold it for 300 baht per 100. Everyday coconuts are collected by companies who tranport it to places where it is processed. Transport adds a little to that price. I estimate around 1-2 satang per coconut, because the nuts were transported with the thousands at once.

For my small time hobby i paid 5 baht per coconut and 5 baht for squeezing out the 'milk'.

I needed around 5-6 coconuts for 1 liter oil, but i got almost 10 liter of coconut milk to start with.

For large quantities you can get those nuts for 2-3 baht a piece.

Now for my initial idea. Instead of selling the coconuts unprocessed it would be more profitable for many coconut farmers to do a litle processing. with simple equipment they can make a bunch of different products. So instead of collecting the coconuts, factories or wholesalers would collect oil, flesh, husk, etc.

The farmers could even go into making other higher valued products from it. This would prevent the rapid disappearance of coconut farms, and would give a better future for a lot of people, who now only have the choice of selling, using up the money and end up poor and without land.

I was more interested in that part, so my quest for knowledge started from that angle.

[udon]

Thanks Jean.

If anyone calls Golden Agro, please use a Thai to make the call, otherwise we may get a "distorted" quote.

Per barrel or per metric ton? (price)

[The_Other_Mac]

This Australian non-profit makes and sells equipment for extracting coconut oil.

http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au

The equipment is intended to be used by "peasant" families in South Pacific islands. They also do training and encourage small local networks so that there is sufficient demand to drive a local parts and maintenance business. They claim their product is more efficient than standard methods.

The basic price is around AU$10,000, which is not out of reach of a Thai farmer, if financing was available.

It strikes me that there's an opportunity for a business to import the equipment to Thailand, set up a demo farm, and sell the equipment on finance terms (or better, make arrangements with a local bank to provide the loans), run a maintenance/repair business, and then buy the oil from the farmers (perhaps at a guaranteed rate). The oil could then be sold to fishing trawlers, which by a happy coincidence operate in the same areas as coconuts grow in, which avoids the need for a complex distribution chain.

Of course, this way the appropriate duties would be payable. But they are fairly low in Thailand. A year or two ago there was some discussion of exempting biofuels from fuel duty (which is common in the west), but I don't know if anything came of it.

Now if you're going to produce large amounts of pure coconut oil in this way, there's an obvious temptation to sell it at much higher prices in the West as a luxury product. There's no reason not to do that also... but it requires much more risk and investment in marketing and distribution. So the use as fuel would be a solid base to start from.

[chownah]

Do you think that it is appropriate to tell a Thai farmer who makes a product that they shouldn't sell it wherever the best price can be found? This seems unreasonable to me....it would have the effect of lowering the income of the farmer...I think that the only person who should suggest this is someone who will live in the same conditions as the farmer....same income with no chance of being baled out by the social welfare system in another country and no rich family members.

Chownah

P.S. I hope my views on this are not seen as being too harsh....but....these are my views.

Chownah

[udon]

Tell???

Who said that?

[yaimar]

Tell???

Who said that?

yaimar here I am told one can buy bulk coconut oil in chumpon and others areas , can any one advise.

[yaimar]

Tell???

Who said that?

yaimar here I am told one can buy bulk coconut oil in chumpon and others areas , can any one advise.

I am agog with the coconut string .but have just read. The australian people say the cost of their oil, is way above pump diesel. and is only for gourmet use .not as a fuel oil? Any thing on thai bulk coconut oil ?? if not its back to the blasted chemicals. One stays up round the clock and at the 11 hour???

[Maizefarmer]

YAIMAR - and that is exactly the problem with using coconut oil in Thaialnd - not that it is not avalible, not that no one producers it - it is proiduced in bulk (Chumpon been one of the areas - bu there are also others), its that it commands a higher price in the cosmetic and food processing indistries, so that is what it is used for primarily, and makes it hard to get for biofuel.

No-one is going to sell coconut oil for biofuel if they can get more for it selling it the food and cosmetic industries.

I am going to phone AGRO in about 2 hours and will then post the price for a 40 gallon drum for all to see.

- my suspicion is that it will be taxed big time on importing it to Thailand to protect the local industry - which is another fatcor which has to be kept in mind - but we'll crsoss that bridge when we get to it.

............ sorry, folks, the more we discuss this, and the more contributors add there bit, I have to say , the more it starts loooking like cooking oil been the viable option.

Lets see what the price of a 40 gallon drum is.

Tim

[Khun Jean]

This Australian non-profit makes and sells equipment for extracting coconut oil.

http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au

The equipment is intended to be used by "peasant" families in South Pacific islands. They also do training and encourage small local networks so that there is sufficient demand to drive a local parts and maintenance business. They claim their product is more efficient than standard methods.

The basic price is around AU$10,000, which is not out of reach of a Thai farmer, if financing was available.

.........

And then call yourself non-profit. They probably are not making profit with the high costs to make it in Australia.

Truth is, you need very little to take out the oil, and all the other products.

10.000 baht would be enough for a small scale setup. When it is used for fuel, tyo don't have to worry to much about being a food product. That needs much more care.

And you don't need to train a Thai coconut farmer how to split a coconut.

[chownah]

Tell???

Who said that?

Yeah, I think I over reacted to what I imagined The_Other_Mac was saying but which I now realize after re-reading his post that he was not say at all....so....apologies to The_Other_Mac and thanks udon for pointing out my gaff.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

I have just spoken to Bal Kayan - GOLDENAGRO:

He replies that GOLDENGRO is not dealing in coconut oil in Thailand or Bangladish currently. He went on to ask what my "bulk enquiry" was about. I told him that I was interested in trying it out as a base for biodeisel.

He replied "not possible" and went on to explain that the commercial producers of coconut oil get far more for the oil sold to food producers and the cosmetic industry, and paying those prices means that any biodeisel produced from it has no price advantage.

................which is what I suspected folks (!!)

He ended off buy saying "use Jatropha - but buy it used" which effectively means use used cooking oil.

It is starting to look like a lot of the bio oils that can be used for bio fuel actually also have other uses which means that they are priced out of use as a commercial base for biofuels - at least aginst the price of diesel as it is in Thailand.

Used cooking oil guys.

Tim

[chownah]

I found this link:

http://www.imf.org/external/np/res/commod/...oconut%20oil%22

It is from the IMF (I think) and has a table which is titled:

"Actual Market Prices for Non-Fuel Commodities, Petroleum, and Natural Gas, 2003-2006"

It shows for Aug '06 that the price for coconut oil was 603 dollars US per metric tonne...that's 0.60 dollars US per kilo or 22.5 baht per kilo...but a litre of coconut oil is only 0.92 (approximately) of a kilogram so one litre of coconut oil would be 20.7 baht.

Chownah

P.S. MaizeFarmer,

I think that some people here shy away from used cooking oil because it may seem like an abundant commodity now but given the amount of cooking oil thrown away every day and given the amount of diesel fuel used every day it seems that it will not be a final solution to the fuel problem and that eventually there will be a scramble to collect this stuff and it will turn into a recycling system routine....which is fine but it won't really help the vast majority of farmers who don't have the time and don't live in a place where they could do it themselves...so...the profit will be made by someone else who runs the recycle business and the farmer will end up paying a competitive price for the stuff which will end up costing about the same as petroleum based fuel. The idea of coconut oil production is to put the entire process in the hands of the farmer and that way the advantage doesn't slip away to a middle-man-merchant-recycler.....not that the middle-man-merchant-recycler isn't a noble concept....but it is sort of external to what would probably happen for most Thai farmers.

Chownah

Edited October 2, 2006 by chownah

[Maizefarmer]

Yup - you're quite right, it is not the solution and as the price of diesel goes up which it will (and the government is artificially keepin it low to the tune af around Baht 3 perlitre at the moment) so will the demand for used cooking oil.

Yes, it can only catch on more and more as time goes by to the point that at some point crops that can be used for biofuel (and used cooking oil - which I think will be the first to feel the "demand") will start competing with other users of the oil - such as food producers and cosmetic manufactuers.

- unless fuel cell techonolgy catches on before but I think a fuel cell tractor is well after my lifetime!

Tim

[The_Other_Mac]

Tell???

Who said that?

Yeah, I think I over reacted to what I imagined The_Other_Mac was saying but which I now realize after re-reading his post that he was not say at all....so....apologies to The_Other_Mac and thanks udon for pointing out my gaff.

Chownah

Just to clarify... I wouldn't even suggest "cheating" the Thai farmer by failing to inform them. Have you ever told a food stall vendor that in Europe, a plate of somtam costs 500 baht? Or that a packet of Uncle Ben's boil-in-the-bag from the supermarket costs 100 baht for 2 servings? Does that enable them to choose the higher selling price? There's no law or information imbalance to prevent the normal Thai farmer from selling his rice in the West.... he just needs to make sure he grows the equivalent of thousands of normal farms, have personal contacts with purchasing managers in Tesco, produce packaging and marketing that can compete with existing Western brands, and so on.

The "decision" would belong to the owner of the business I outlined. I wouldn't expect them to deliberately make less than optimum profit either. But one could start such a business (fuel oil) with perhaps 5-10 million baht, whereas starting a business that exported premium bottled oil to the West would take far more. So it's a step up; and if the western virgin coconut oil market tanks, the fuel option is a fallback. In fact, given that it's apparently so profitable as a cooking product, I expect that over the next few years, the market will be flooded and the price will drop dramatically.

At which point it would be comforting to know that you produce a product that will always be in demand locally, regardless of the world economy or currency fluctuations. And each of the individual farmers, if they decided they didn't like the business terms of the evil baron, wouldn't be stuck with an unsaleable product. They could pour it into their pickup and run a songthaew service; stick it in a generator and have free electricity; run a squid boat once a week, etc. The nice thing about coconut oil, compared to other fuel crops, is that it doesn't need a huge industry infrastructure and middlemen to be useful.

(Incidentally, coconut trees are ideal for intercropping, so farmers don't have to abandon food crops. Some interesting reading here http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/af298e/af298E15.htm)