Citizenship application - can time spent on a visitor visa count for residence requirement?

[steady]

Hello everyone, I've previously read on here that when making an application for citizenship then earlier visit visas can count towards the time that the applicant has been in the UK.

It is now time for me to start with the wife's application and I find that when completing the residence requirements on the application form it clearly states in the guide AN that the dates should start from when "you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis". This seems to me to discount any earlier time in the UK.

Does this mean that I am misreading things or have the rules changed?

If anyone knows for certain that time spent in the UK on a visitor visa counts can they please direct me to where it says so on the government / UKVI website.

Thanks in advance.

[7by7]

Booklet AN Naturalisation Booklet – The Requirements clearly says

1. DO YOU QUALIFY?

A. If you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen (section 6(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981)

7. Have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years before you apply and meet the following residence requirements:

1. You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 3 years before the application is received by the Home Office.
For example if your application is received on 20/1/2015, you should have been physically present in the United Kingdom on 21/1/2012.

Note it says "physically present," not present with a view to settlement.

On the guide to filling in the form it says

SECTION 2: RESIDENCE REQUIREMENTS
2.1 Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered. If this is less than 5 years before the date on which we receive the application, or less than 3 years before this date if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you might not meet the residence requirement (see page 6 of the Booklet AN) and your application may be unsuccessful.
(7by7 emphasis)

Note the parts I have emphasised; "might not" and "may be;" not "will not" and "will be."

As far as I am aware, this means that time spent in the UK as a visitor can count towards the residential requirement. It certainly used to, and I am not aware of any change; but stand to be corrected.

Edited July 14, 2015 by 7by7

[7by7]

Bugger, just re read the quote from Booklet AN, and it says "7. Have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years before you apply and meet the following residence requirements:"

So the question is; does being in the UK as a visitor count as living in the UK for this purpose?

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that one.

[steady]

^{I've been playing safe anyway and waiting until the 3 years are up before applying for the wife. She came here in September 2012 so I'll wait until September 2015. Thanks for your input.}

Edited July 15, 2015 by steady

[krisb]

Bugger, just re read the quote from Booklet AN, and it says "7. Have lived in the UK for a minimum of 3 years before you apply and meet the following residence requirements:"

So the question is; does being in the UK as a visitor count as living in the UK for this purpose?

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that one.

Can't answer for the UK, but for the Aussie side it's any time spent on Aussie soil counts. Maybe it's the same for the UK?

[dbrenn]

Been there, done that. The residence requirements for a PR to qualify for Australian Citizenship are:

1) Four (4) years lawful residence in Australia immediately prior to making an application for Australian citizenship with at least 12 months as a permanent resident, and

2) Absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the four (4) years prior to application, and no more than three (3) months in the 12 month permanent residency period prior to application.

For breaks between visas prior to PR, this is how they calculate it:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

36.4 Calculation of the 4-year lawful residence period when a person has been absent from Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying

If a person’s first arrival in Australia is less than 4 years before they apply for citizenship, they cannot meet the general residence requirement, even if they spend 3 years continuously in Australia.

The start date of the 4-year lawful residence period is usually the date 4 years immediately before they lodge their application. However, if the person has not made their first entry into Australia, they need to wait at least 4 years after their first entry to meet this requirement.

Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4-years immediately before applying as a start date (for the purposes of being eligible to satisfy the 4 year lawful requirement), providing that on that day they held a visa which was in effect on that day (a visa granted in Australia is in effect from the day of grant, a visa granted offshore comes into effect when the person enters Australia on that visa).

If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.

For the purposes of the residence calculator, the lawful residence date will be the date that the ‘in effect visa’ that was held ‘on the day 4 years immediately prior to the day of application’ came into effect.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So - your wife having a visitor visa WILL count as the start of the four year residency period, BUT ONLY IF her visa was in effect, i.e. valid, on the day four years before her citizenship application. This means that (on the day four years before she applies for citizenship), she would have EITHER had to have been in Australia on her visitor visa OR she would have already have made her first entry to Australia on it, and if she has since left Oz then it would need to still be valid for subsequent entries to Oz.

I tried this path and failed - although my wife had been to Oz on a visitors visa and since left, that visa was no longer "in effect" on the day four years before we applied for citizenship, so we had to wait longer, until four years after the start of her next visit to Oz on her new (fiancee) visa. She eventually she got her citizenship.

The Citizenship online application wizard on the DIBP website knows all your wife's immigration history, and will only allow her to proceed with her application if it meets the residency requirements, so is a good place to test the water on her eligibility - the wizard won't let her proceed, and will show an error, if she doesn't meet the residency requirement.

Edited July 16, 2015 by dbrenn

[krisb]

Been there, done that. The residence requirements for a PR to qualify for Australian Citizenship are:

1) Four (4) years lawful residence in Australia immediately prior to making an application for Australian citizenship with at least 12 months as a permanent resident, and

2) Absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the four (4) years prior to application, and no more than three (3) months in the 12 month permanent residency period prior to application.

For breaks between visas prior to PR, this is how they calculate it:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

36.4 Calculation of the 4-year lawful residence period when a person has been absent from Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying

If a persons first arrival in Australia is less than 4 years before they apply for citizenship, they cannot meet the general residence requirement, even if they spend 3 years continuously in Australia.

The start date of the 4-year lawful residence period is usually the date 4 years immediately before they lodge their application. However, if the person has not made their first entry into Australia, they need to wait at least 4 years after their first entry to meet this requirement.

Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4-years immediately before applying as a start date (for the purposes of being eligible to satisfy the 4 year lawful requirement), providing that on that day they held a visa which was in effect on that day (a visa granted in Australia is in effect from the day of grant, a visa granted offshore comes into effect when the person enters Australia on that visa).

If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.

For the purposes of the residence calculator, the lawful residence date will be the date that the in effect visa that was held on the day 4 years immediately prior to the day of application came into effect.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So - your wife having a visitor visa WILL count as the start of the four year residency period, BUT ONLY IF her visa was in effect, i.e. valid, on the day four years before her citizenship application. This means that (on the day four years before she applies for citizenship), she would have EITHER had to have been in Australia on her visitor visa OR she would have already have made her first entry to Australia on it, and if she has since left Oz then it would need to still be valid for subsequent entries to Oz.

I tried this path and failed - although my wife had been to Oz on a visitors visa and since left, that visa was no longer "in effect" on the day four years before we applied for citizenship, so we had to wait longer, until four years after the start of her next visit to Oz on her new (fiancee) visa. She eventually she got her citizenship.

The Citizenship online application wizard on the DIBP website knows all your wife's immigration history, and will only allow her to proceed with her application if it meets the residency requirements, so is a good place to test the water on her eligibility - the wizard won't let her proceed, and will show an error, if she doesn't meet the residency requirement.

Well this threads about a UK pr, not Australia.

But the easy way to say what you did is they just need to be on Australian soil for 48 months total. Its simple really.

[dbrenn]

Whoops, you are quite right. The OP was asking about UK citizenship. I shouldn't mix posting and working. ...

On my wife's Oz citizenship, waiting four years is obviously the easiest way but at the time it looked like I'd have to work abroad, hence the rush to get my wife over the citizenship line before leaving Oz.