British by the back door: Is immigration fuelling the Brexit debate?

[7by7]

As has been said before, there as many, if not more, Brits exercising their treaty rights to live in other EU states as there are EU citizens doing the same in the UK.

I say EU as the figures I can find relate to EU states, not to the whole EEA.

The big difference being where Brits choose to live and where EU migrants to the UK come from.

Two million British people emigrated to EU, figures show

The numbers, covering 2010, were put forward last week in a government response to a parliamentary question by Matthew Oakeshott, a Liberal member of the House of Lords.

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.

A previous response to an Oakeshott question in January said another 900 Britons live in Croatia, putting the net immigration-emigration ratio even closer to par, however...........

The government reply indicates the real numbers could be higher, due to a high evidence of non-registration in France, Portugal and Spain........

The main British eurosceptic party, Ukip, last year predicted that many economic migrants will come from Bulgaria and Romania when labour restrictions expire on 1 January 2014.

The prediction proved false.

Of course, those figures are 5 years old now, but I doubt the overall ratio has changed much.

Read further in that article and you will see that out of the 2.2 million Brits living in other EU countries, only 400,000 are pensioners.

[Lissos]

The main British eurosceptic party, Ukip, last year predicted that many economic migrants will come from Bulgaria and Romania when labour restrictions expire on 1 January 2014.

The prediction proved false.

Out of curiosity, how do they conclude that it is false? I'm thinking of ways that such information would be obtained. Could it be when registering with the PAYE system? I'm unsure how the Government know exactly where people have come from. Arriving by flight, you simply waltz through

[teatree]

As 7by7 has repeatedly posted, right to move around in Europe is an EEA agreement.

Not connected to the EU, not cancelled if Britain leaves the EU.

So NO, leaving the EU will not allow the UK any more control over the quality or quantity of people living in the UK.

To seal off free movement and unregulated stay for EU nationals (both unlikely anyway) may give some a short term boost, but it works both ways. It seals Brits inside, unless they have the money and skills to move to more distant locations, or wish the beauracracy into Europe movement.

You mean EEA nationals.

Every time you use EU when you mean EEA makes your post nonsense.

There will never be a vote to leave the EEA, as most people bang on about the EU, so no political gain on an EEA vote.

@teatree

A vote about the EU will not and could not signal an exit from the EEA.

Next you will be suggesting a vote to leave the EU will include leaving NATO.

Politicians are very careful how they word votes, and they don't include anything that isn't specified.

It really depends on the referendum question doesn't it?

If the question includes leaving the EEA as well as the EU then it would signal an exit from both.

It would be absurd for the UK to vote to leave the EU but end up staying in the EEA when the EEA obligations are part of what people want changed.

But maybe that is the plan of the 'stay in' campaign. Rely on the the general public's lack of understanding on the subject and get them to vote only on EU membership.

The issues surrounding the EU and EEA are closely linked and come together under the banner of the EU in the minds of the general public. NATO is totally seperate and irrelevant. People are not worried about NATO.

[MaeJoMTB]

The issues surrounding the EU and EEA are closely linked and come together under the banner of the EU in the minds of the general public. NATO is totally seperate and irrelevant. People are not worried about NATO.

UK spends a lot of money on NATO.

Unlike the EEA, NATO is a total waste of money.

[7by7]

The main British eurosceptic party, Ukip, last year predicted that many economic migrants will come from Bulgaria and Romania when labour restrictions expire on 1 January 2014.

The prediction proved false.

Out of curiosity, how do they conclude that it is false? I'm thinking of ways that such information would be obtained. Could it be when registering with the PAYE system? I'm unsure how the Government know exactly where people have come from. Arriving by flight, you simply waltz through

One way of recording the nationality of EEA nationals in the UK is when applying for a National Insurance number the applicant has to prove they have the right to work in the UK. For most non British, the easiest way to do this is with their passport and, if a non EEA national, the relevant visa.

Another way is, whilst not compulsory, many EEA nationals obtain an EEA registration certificate to prove their right to live and work in the UK as many employers are happier with this than just a passport on it's own.

Of course, as with Brits in other EEA states, not everyone registers so, again as with Brits in other EEA states, the figures are not 100% accurate.

Edited August 7, 2015 by 7by7

[7by7]

TommyUK1960,

<snip>

As an anti immigration UKIP supporter, perhaps you can explain why your leader employs a German as his secretary instead of a Brit? He can't (or wont)!

He's married to her!

So not only can he be accused of hypocrisy in employing a German instead of a Brit; he's also possibly guilty of nepotism as well!

[TommyUK1960]

TommyUK1960,

<snip>

As an anti immigration UKIP supporter, perhaps you can explain why your leader employs a German as his secretary instead of a Brit? He can't (or wont)!

He's married to her!

So not only can he be accused of hypocrisy in employing a German instead of a Brit; he's also possibly guilty of nepotism as well!

Ask Nigel Farage why he is married to a German. He has said many a time "He is not anti European but anti EU".

I want out of the EU because I don't believe we get value for money from our contribution fees when we have the biggest National debt we have ever had. I also support UKIPs view on cutting foreign aid.

I don't see that we benefit from the EU. If you want more info on UKIP visit their web site.

I will be voting to leave the EU.

[nontabury]

If working and paying tax and the equivalent of NICs then Brits are entitled to state health care in all other EEA countries and Switzerland on the same basis as citizens of that county, provided they register for it.

If retired and receiving a UK state pension then they can register using form S1 or E121 to obtain state funded health care on the same basis as a citizen of that country.

See Moving abroad: planning for your healthcare from NHS Choices.

And what about British ex-pats who return to live in the UK,for instance after 10yrs,do they automatically receive NH care,especially if they had previously paid into the system?

The key would be "returning to live". If just on holiday I believe not, other than emergency as any other person not British.

You would need a Dr to access the system, and for that you need an address.

It's nothing to with having paid into, it's all about where you reside.

Correct, but is that fair. Compare that with a Thai who returns to Thailand as a visitor, would they be entitled to use the Thai hospitals free.

[nontabury]

TommyUK1960,

<snip>

As an anti immigration UKIP supporter, perhaps you can explain why your leader employs a German as his secretary instead of a Brit? He can't (or wont)!

He's married to her!

So not only can he be accused of hypocrisy in employing a German instead of a Brit; he's also possibly guilty of nepotism as well!

Ask Nigel Farage why he is married to a German. He has said many a time "He is not anti European but anti EU".

I want out of the EU because I don't believe we get value for money from our contribution fees when we have the biggest National debt we have ever had. I also support UKIPs view on cutting foreign aid.

I don't see that we benefit from the EU. If you want more info on UKIP visit their web site.

I will be voting to leave the EU.

I'm visiting London at this moment, most of the people I have come in contact with are what would be described as none native, personally I have no problem with that, they are very sociable and friendly plus they seem prepared to work.

However I support UKIP as it is their policy to control the boarders, in order to Only allow those people in who will be of benefit to the UK. One last point why are there 2 million unemployed, while these immigrants seem to have no problem gaining employment?

[JockPieandBeans]

Ask Nigel Farage why he is married to a German. He has said many a time "He is not anti European but anti EU".

I want out of the EU because I don't believe we get value for money from our contribution fees when we have the biggest National debt we have ever had. I also support UKIPs view on cutting foreign aid.

I don't see that we benefit from the EU. If you want more info on UKIP visit their web site.

I will be voting to leave the EU.

I'm visiting London at this moment, most of the people I have come in contact with are what would be described as none native, personally I have no problem with that, they are very sociable and friendly plus they seem prepared to work.

However I support UKIP as it is their policy to control the boarders, in order to Only allow those people in who will be of benefit to the UK. One last point why are there 2 million unemployed, while these immigrants seem to have no problem gaining employment?

One word.

Benefits.

[7by7]

TommyUK1960,

<snip>

As an anti immigration UKIP supporter, perhaps you can explain why your leader employs a German as his secretary instead of a Brit? He can't (or wont)!

He's married to her!

So not only can he be accused of hypocrisy in employing a German instead of a Brit; he's also possibly guilty of nepotism as well!

Ask Nigel Farage why he is married to a German. He has said many a time "He is not anti European but anti EU".

I want out of the EU because I don't believe we get value for money from our contribution fees when we have the biggest National debt we have ever had. I also support UKIPs view on cutting foreign aid.

I don't see that we benefit from the EU. If you want more info on UKIP visit their web site.

I will be voting to leave the EU.

I would hope that the reason Farage married a German is the same as my reason for marrying a Thai: that just happens to be the nationality of the woman I fell in love with and wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

But, employing his German wife as his secretary instead of a Brit whilst at the same time wanting to control and limit other EU nationals working in the UK does smack of hypocrisy.

Saying she's an exception because she's his wife would smack of nepotism.

But, I suppose you could day that as he is an MEP show works in Brussels, not the UK.

Of course, if UKIP do get there (publicly) stated desire, then Farage will be chucked off the MEP gravy train. I wonder if that is what he really wants.

I admit that, until now, I haven't visited the UKIP website or looked into their stated policies since the election. They haven't changed.

Before you vote in the referendum, I suggest that you look carefully at all the pros and cons of EU membership; don't just fall for UKIP's, or anyone else's, propaganda

[simple1]

<snip>

I would hope that the reason Farage married a German is the same as my reason for marrying a Thai: that just happens to be the nationality of the woman I fell in love with and wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

But, employing his German wife as his secretary instead of a Brit whilst at the same time wanting to control and limit other EU nationals working in the UK does smack of hypocrisy.

Saying she's an exception because she's his wife would smack of nepotism.

As an aside Oz politicians are now banned from employing family members, would be a good idea for other countries to implement the same regulation.

[jaidam]

<snip>

I would hope that the reason Farage married a German is the same as my reason for marrying a Thai: that just happens to be the nationality of the woman I fell in love with and wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

But, employing his German wife as his secretary instead of a Brit whilst at the same time wanting to control and limit other EU nationals working in the UK does smack of hypocrisy.

Saying she's an exception because she's his wife would smack of nepotism.

As an aside Oz politicians are now banned from employing family members, would be a good idea for other countries to implement the same regulation.

This rule might suit the Australians, but as has been proven time and time again in Thailand, family members are often the most capable persons the country has to offer. Some cases whereby multiple siblings have assumed the PM position in rapid succession and totally eliminated corruption, improved the lives of rice farmers and even rid the country of narcotic drugs are testament to this. The Chanocha clan look set to be another brilliant example of family members simply being the most capable people across the board in a government(albeit in this case a military junta).

The multicultural Britain is a modern marvel. Only last night after staggering out of a London alehouse I had my Nikes stolen by what sounded like a Polack, was offered a cheap taxi ride home by possibly a Romanian without a car, was shouted at by some African looking chappies and went to a cathouse to relax and all on offer were Thais. Impressive indeed.

[nontabury]

TommyUK1960,
<snip>
As an anti immigration UKIP supporter, perhaps you can explain why your leader employs a German as his secretary instead of a Brit? He can't (or wont)!

He's married to her!

So not only can he be accused of hypocrisy in employing a German instead of a Brit; he's also possibly guilty of nepotism as well!

Ask Nigel Farage why he is married to a German. He has said many a time "He is not anti European but anti EU".
I want out of the EU because I don't believe we get value for money from our contribution fees when we have the biggest National debt we have ever had. I also support UKIPs view on cutting foreign aid.
I don't see that we benefit from the EU. If you want more info on UKIP visit their web site.
I will be voting to leave the EU.

I would hope that the reason Farage married a German is the same as my reason for marrying a Thai: that just happens to be the nationality of the woman I fell in love with and wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

But, employing his German wife as his secretary instead of a Brit whilst at the same time wanting to control and limit other EU nationals working in the UK does smack of hypocrisy.

Saying she's an exception because she's his wife would smack of nepotism.

But, I suppose you could day that as he is an MEP show works in Brussels, not the UK.

Of course, if UKIP do get there (publicly) stated desire, then Farage will be chucked off the MEP gravy train. I wonder if that is what he really wants.

I admit that, until now, I haven't visited the UKIP website or looked into their stated policies since the election. They haven't changed.

Before you vote in the referendum, I suggest that you look carefully at all the pros and cons of EU membership; don't just fall for UKIP's, or anyone else's, propaganda

I think you'll find that many of the MP's of all parties employ relatives.

You like to make snide remarks regarding showing ignorance of UKIP's policies, perhaps now is the time to look out of the box.

[7by7]

I am fully aware that many MPs employ members of their families, thank you.

You seem to have missed the point, though.

Farage has pronounced against the EEA freedom of movement and workers regulations, wants the UK to leave the EU and EEA and thus release the UK from those regulations.

Yet he uses those regulations to employ a German as his secretary.

He uses those regulations so his German wife can live in the UK with him. Were the UK not in the EU/EEA then she would have had to follow the spouse visa route under the UK's immigration rules to live in the UK with him; just as the Thai wives of members here have had to do.

To use these regulations to employ his wife and have her live in the UK whilst wishing to deny those rights to others is the hypocrisy and nepotism of which I have accused him.

I do not recall making any remarks, snide or otherwise, concerning anyone's ignorance, or otherwise, of UKIP's policies. Perhaps you can back up your remark by showing me where I have done so?