Koh Tao murder trial reconvenes in Koh Samui

[BritTim]

Everybody who is taking the time to write on here is doing so because they want the truth, I, for one, am very interested in the differing points of view, and arguing this out may help us get to some truth. Keep writing everyone, I am reading continually, keep fighting for the truth and for justice. It's a pity there aren't more people who care about this murder as much as the people on this forum..

I basically agree, but can you imagine how many pages this thread would have if this trial had the same attention as, say, the OJ Simpson trial?

[Gweiloman]

You lot are going OTT about this. Rambling on and and on and on. 73 pages of rambling - most of which is silly.

Leave it for a couple of days, sleep, and then come back. And continue your ramblings.

We all want what is right, but just leave it for a moment and stop arguing over this and that and the other.

Everybody who is taking the time to write on here is doing so because they want the truth, I, for one, am very interested in the differing points of view, and arguing this out may help us get to some truth. Keep writing everyone, I am reading continually, keep fighting for the truth and for justice. It's a pity there aren't more people who care about this murder as much as the people on this forum..

Everybody? I doubt that very much. It is very clear to me that some are here to troll, bait and to obfuscate the thread in general. Can't think of any reason why they would want to introduce misinformation and hijack the thread with pedantics and so on

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Koh Tao trial day 13 final prosecution witness still on stand for cross examination.Lots of last minute prosecution documents given to court

[Rykbanlor]

[Rykbanlor]

Ah, Stealth you got there first. WOnder if they will continue into the evening to accomodate the defence?

[BritTim]

Ah, Stealth you got there first. WOnder if they will continue into the evening to accomodate the defence?

Doubt it. I wonder if the prosecution will ask to continue into tomorrow.

[StealthEnergiser]

Ah, Stealth you got there first. WOnder if they will continue into the evening to accomodate the defence?

Doubt it. I wonder if the prosecution will ask to continue into tomorrow.

I think they will just finish the prosecution today even if late and start defence tomorrow.

[JLCrab]

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html 26 DEC 2014

The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.”

The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes.

I wonder if they will use the same answer on cross-examination.

[JLCrab]

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html 26 DEC 2014

The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.”

The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes.

I wonder if they will use the same answer on cross-examination.

The B2 do now (to a degree) have real protection eh.......

Huh? That was their answer then -- just wondering whether it or what will be their answer now.

[BritTim]

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html 26 DEC 2014

The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.”

The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes.

I wonder if they will use the same answer on cross-examination.

I wonder the same thing. One speculation I have wondered for a while (based on the fact that the Burmese kids seem easily intimidated): perhaps, they were threatened with assisted suicide in prison if they revealed what they know. This could also be a reason they were refused bail.

[Rykbanlor]

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html 26 DEC 2014

The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.”

The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes.

I wonder if they will use the same answer on cross-examination.

I wonder the same thing. One speculation I have wondered for a while (based on the fact that the Burmese kids seem easily intimidated): perhaps, they were threatened with assisted suicide in prison if they revealed what they know. This could also be a reason they were refused bail.

Yes, I reckon they won't feel safe whilst in prison.

[JLCrab]

From Andy Hall's Twitter account:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 23h

23 hours ago

Either 2mrw or 2nd Sept defense witnesses start. Today defense team/translators preparing accused for their testimony

So I was wondering what might be their testimony and their responses on cross but you guys are talking about bail and assisted suicide in prison, huh?

[Gweiloman]

From Andy Hall's Twitter account:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 23h

23 hours ago

Either 2mrw or 2nd Sept defense witnesses start. Today defense team/translators preparing accused for their testimony

So I was wondering what might be their testimony and their responses on cross but you guys are talking about bail and assisted suicide in prison, huh?

Why not just wait till they take to the stand?

In any case, I think it's highly unlikely they would asked such a question. They just need to account for their movements

[Darkknight666]

From Andy Hall's Twitter account:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 23h

23 hours ago

Either 2mrw or 2nd Sept defense witnesses start. Today defense team/translators preparing accused for their testimony

So I was wondering what might be their testimony and their responses on cross but you guys are talking about bail and assisted suicide in prison, huh?

So you believe that's outside the realm of possibilities in Thailand? I think it's a possibility.

I do hope the B2 have more to say other than they were sleeping so have no idea.

[JLCrab]

From Andy Hall's Twitter account:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 23h

23 hours ago

Either 2mrw or 2nd Sept defense witnesses start. Today defense team/translators preparing accused for their testimony

So I was wondering what might be their testimony and their responses on cross but you guys are talking about bail and assisted suicide in prison, huh?

So you believe that's outside the realm of possibilities in Thailand? I think it's a possibility.

I do hope the B2 have more to say other than they were sleeping so have no idea.

I read AH's post about preparing the B2 for their upcoming testimony -- I don't know what that has to do with the realm of possibilities.

[Madaussie]

From the above article published today http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/in-depth/16238-koh-tao-accused-to-take-the-stand-as-defence-case-begins.html

“A number of significant leads were not followed up by the police – they only focused on these two men,” Mr Hall said.

Those leads include the argument that Ms Witheridge allegedly had been at Koh Tao’s AC Bar with Thai locals that some say she knew previously.

Well it should not be too hard to find the 'some' if a freelance journalist knows about it.

....a 'freelance journalist' similar to the translator who was threatened and compelled to leave on the 1st day of the trial? Btw, whomever threatened her - was successful, because she quit showing up for the trial after that, and her newspaper ceased covering it.

It would take a particularly brave journalist to do some serious delving in to the real whodunit of the crime. Was the Frenchman found hanged - asking questions? I vaguely recall that the young farang woman found dead in her AC resort room was studying journalism. Is it possible she was asking too many probing questions? Both those deaths happened on KT - since the Sept. crime.

I said if a freelance journalist can know that 'some' know of Ms. Witheridge's acquaintances, then maybe the defense should be able to find them as well. Other than that it really doesn't take much to set you off, does it? Frenchman?

Defence did find them how do you think they knew the police had already interviewed them for the RTP Informally I may add..

[Madaussie]

You lot are going OTT about this. Rambling on and and on and on. 73 pages of rambling - most of which is silly.

Leave it for a couple of days, sleep, and then come back. And continue your ramblings.

We all want what is right, but just leave it for a moment and stop arguing over this and that and the other.

Everybody who is taking the time to write on here is doing so because they want the truth, I, for one, am very interested in the differing points of view, and arguing this out may help us get to some truth. Keep writing everyone, I am reading continually, keep fighting for the truth and for justice. It's a pity there aren't more people who care about this murder as much as the people on this forum..

Everybody? I doubt that very much. It is very clear to me that some are here to troll, bait and to obfuscate the thread in general. Can't think of any reason why they would want to introduce misinformation and hijack the thread with pedantics and so on

Some of the posters have business's on Koh Tao.

[KunMatt]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in their back garden but they are helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

Edited September 1, 2015 by KunMatt

[Nigeone]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

u

I've said this several times before too.. It doesn't fit in any shape or form. The B2 are dispensable to many in Koh Tao and the leaning on witnesses and press and the silence and cover ups of info only can point to one thing. And it doesn't suggest that the guilty are on trial . It is in the interests of business people for this to be solved and the lack of information just strengthens the feeling that the powers that be on Koh Tao are in some way involved. No other reason is plausible.!!

[KunMatt]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

u

I've said this several times before too.. It doesn't fit in any shape or form. The B2 are dispensable to many in Koh Tao and the leaning on witnesses and press and the silence and cover ups of info only can point to one thing. And it doesn't suggest that the guilty are on trial . It is in the interests of business people for this to be solved and the lack of information just strengthens the feeling that the powers that be on Koh Tao are in some way involved. No other reason is plausible.!!

There are two possible explanations;

1. The B2 are being protected by the Koh Tao mafia

Or

2. The B2 are scapegoats.

I cannot think of any other plausible explanation.

Edited September 1, 2015 by KunMatt

[AleG]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:

"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"

What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.

"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"

This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.

"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"

Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.

You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.

[Nigeone]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:

"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"

What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.

"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"

This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.

"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"

Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.

You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.

Nonsense.! Not going to bother to argue your comments as they don't deserve any input I'm afraid.

Not going to ignore as its always interesting to see the depths some people go to to defend the indefensible.

[BritTim]

The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:

"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"

What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.

"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"

This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.

"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"

Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.

You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.

Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found

This is one of the weirdest aspects of all in the case. How on earth did Mon know where the alleged murder weapon was originally? Are we supposed to believe that Mon and the local police found the hoe under the tree, the gardener/beach cleaner was allowed unhindered to move it, then Mon had it moved back?

[metisdead]

Some more nonsense posts and replies have been removed. A post in which the reply had been made within the quoted post has been removed as well:

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[boomerangutang]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in their back garden but they are helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

excerpt from above post; ".....why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them (the B2) get away with it?"

B's response: I don't see that. I see the Headman's people doing all they can to protect themselves. They're leaving it up to the RTP to nail the B2 - with perhaps some incentive provided clandestinely. However, early on, Mon did his best to try and implicate Sean, mentioning how Sean went to AC bar to get someone to help him clean off some blood. From the H's peoples' perspective, getting a guilty verdict is secondary importance. Their primary goal is to continue to shift attention away from themselves. In that, they (with help from RTP, prosecution and other authorities) they've been successful. That could partially explain why the prosecution is shoddy. And I agree with GB and others that, regardless of how the judges rule, this will go to appeal (more likely if there's a guilty verdict than if there's a not-guilty). By going to appeal, it further stretches out the time. Already, the real culprits are 5% of the way towards statute of limitations.

[rockingrobin]

From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?

Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.

So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.

I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??

The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:

"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"

What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.

"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"

This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.

"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"

Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.

You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.

Asking someone to wash the alleged murder weapon is destroying the evidence

[sambum]

Thai police confirm British cooperation in Koh Tao case

British police provided evidence to authorities in Thailand that tied two migrant workers to the murder of British backpackers last year, a court heard yesterday.

Royal Thai Police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen confirmed to the Koh Samui court that a phone owned by one of the deceased, David Miller, 24, had been found discarded near the lodgings of the defendants.

The UK National Crime Agency later identified the SIM card as being Mr Millers, he said.

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16198-thai-police-confirm-british-cooperation-in-koh-tao-case.html

Last place I would ditch a phone is near my lodging. All that deep blue to Chuck it in...

The phone was dumped there by a friend of the defendants, they gave it to him to throw it away; I suppose giving an expensive phone to someone and saying "dump it in the sea" would sound a little suspicious.

Bullpoo! How do you know that it was dumped there by a "friend" of the defendants? Some friend to dump a piece of incriminating evidence in the garden of the person who had given it to you to dispose of! And in any case, as I have said already, would they not have been more inclined to dispose of it themselves rather than involve a third (or fourth) party?

[Gweiloman]

Nonsense.! Not going to bother to argue your comments as they don't deserve any input I'm afraid.

Not going to ignore as its always interesting to see the depths some people go to to defend the indefensible.

+100

I did respond but my post was deleted due to some rule about not altering the original post etc.

Instead of reposting, I will follow your sterling example and not waste bandwidth on nonsense posts which contains only misinformation and distorted views.

The burning question in my mind is why some go to great extents to defend the indefensible. Business interests as suggested by the mad Aussie? Don't think so. Life continues as usual on KT, most of the tourists there today are not even aware of the gruesome deeds committed just a year ago. Seems that business is roaring over there.

Family connections? Possible as some posters on here are married to Thais.

Financial incentives? Hard to imagine that anyone would sink so low but hey, what do I know?

[AleG]

The phone was dumped there by a friend of the defendants, they gave it to him to throw it away; I suppose giving an expensive phone to someone and saying "dump it in the sea" would sound a little suspicious.

Bullpoo! How do you know that it was dumped there by a "friend" of the defendants? Some friend to dump a piece of incriminating evidence in the garden of the person who had given it to you to dispose of! And in any case, as I have said already, would they not have been more inclined to dispose of it themselves rather than involve a third (or fourth) party?

Because the men on trial already testified that was what happened, in court, on October 14th of last year; a fact that seems remarkably impervious to absorption by some people.

This comes from the defense team:

"14 th Oct: Koh Samui Court holds a preliminary witness hearing for 3 Myanmar prosecution witnesses at risk of disappearing. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo attend and are represented by lawyers from the Lawyers Council of Thailand (LCT). The witnesses testify: (1) Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo were on Sairee Beach on 14 th Sept. night close to the place where the bodies of Hannah and David were found; (2) Wai Phyo came across a mobile phone he said he found that may have belonged to David but passed it onto his friend."

That friend was the one that dumped it.

Edited September 1, 2015 by AleG

[AleG]

The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:

"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"

What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.

"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"

This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.

"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"

Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.

You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.

Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found

This is one of the weirdest aspects of all in the case. How on earth did Mon know where the alleged murder weapon was originally? Are we supposed to believe that Mon and the local police found the hoe under the tree, the gardener/beach cleaner was allowed unhindered to move it, then Mon had it moved back?

Oh I don't know, someone saw the bloody hoe on it's original location before it was moved? It doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination, at least not as much as some vague but nefarious maneuver to move it somewhere else and then bringing it back.