Video appears to show Texas deputies shot man with hands up

[slipperylobster]

His arms went up....

I have seen fights where crazy people run at you and throw their arms up, screaming...you want a piece of this? They keep coming...

Video without voice is worthless. The police may have told him several times to get down and put his hands flat on the ground. That's pretty much routine. If a man throws his hands up...especially while shouting and presumed to have a weapon...It still does not clearly show he is not a threat.

People are told to get down... The only time hands go in the air is when they are told to get out of the car/house with hands in the air. This man was squirrly. If I was him, and the man did not follow orders to get on the ground, but threw hands up...and possibly had a weapon...I would give him two or three warnings... If he still came at me ..without getting down (so I could cuff him)...I would be quite unsure. Not saying I would shoot..but I just lost control of the situation.

Not trying to defend the police...just cannot believe it was an assassination...a planned murder. Police do have to follow procedures. I simply want to wait and hear the whole thing out. The cop may have become confused..it which case...it was a wrongful killing/procedure....but not a cold blooded murder.

Edited September 2, 2015 by slipperylobster

[stevenl]

His arms went up....

I have seen fights where crazy people run at you and throw their arms up, screaming...you want a piece of this? They keep coming...

Video without voice is worthless. The police may have told him several times to get down and put his hands flat on the ground. That's pretty much routine. If a man throws his hands up...especially while shouting and presumed to have a weapon...It still does not clearly show he is not a threat.

People are told to get down... The only time hands go in the air is when they are told to get out of the car/house with hands in the air. This man was squirrly. If I was him, and the man did not follow orders to get on the ground, but threw hands up...and possibly had a weapon...I would give him two or three warnings... If he still came at me ..without getting down (so I could cuff him)...I would be quite unsure. Not saying I would shoot..but I just lost control of the situation.

Not trying to defend the police...just cannot believe it was an assassination...a planned murder. Police do have to follow procedures. I simply want to wait and hear the whole thing out. The cop may have become confused..it which case...it was a wrongful killing/procedure....but not a cold blooded murder.

So was he coming at the cop?

[Linky]

His arms went up....

I have seen fights where crazy people run at you and throw their arms up, screaming...you want a piece of this? They keep coming...

Video without voice is worthless. The police may have told him several times to get down and put his hands flat on the ground. That's pretty much routine. If a man throws his hands up...especially while shouting and presumed to have a weapon...It still does not clearly show he is not a threat.

People are told to get down... The only time hands go in the air is when they are told to get out of the car/house with hands in the air. This man was squirrly. If I was him, and the man did not follow orders to get on the ground, but threw hands up...and possibly had a weapon...I would give him two or three warnings... If he still came at me ..without getting down (so I could cuff him)...I would be quite unsure. Not saying I would shoot..but I just lost control of the situation.

Not trying to defend the police...just cannot believe it was an assassination...a planned murder. Police do have to follow procedures. I simply want to wait and hear the whole thing out. The cop may have become confused..it which case...it was a wrongful killing/procedure....but not a cold blooded murder.

So was he coming at the cop?

Exactly.

Doesnt need sound, the video itself without sound shows he was not coming at police. So it doesnt matter how many times they told him to get down. Him simply not complying doesnt warrant being shot.

[theoldgit]

Racist comment removed.

[rebelplatoon]

Really?! Find it hard to believe a cop would shoot someone? These guys thought no one was watching. It happens all the time, even if they KNOW people are watching. The US has become a police state, simple as that. Anyone who doesn't wanna see that, keep dreaming. And this virus is slowly taking over the world. Why do you think they have these prepared prison camps all over the US?

[chuckd]

Perhaps we could wait until the investigation is further along before raising conspiracy theories and suggesting police should be trick shot artists.

This from CNN:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Texas police study second video to see if shooting victim held knife

By Michael Martinez, Jason Hanna and Ashley Fantz, CNN

Updated 0124 GMT (0824 HKT) September 3, 2015

(CNN) A second video shows a Texas man with "something in his hand" before he was fatally shot by deputies, Bexar County Sheriff Susan Pamerleau said Wednesday.

"We believe it was a knife," the sheriff told reporters.

The video, filmed by a neighbor, shows suspect Gilbert Flores acting "wildly aggressive," a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN. The footage also shows the suspect charging one officer with a knife at one point and also shoving chairs at an officer, the source said.

But authorities aren't releasing the second video and also declined to comment on whether they found a knife at the scene where Flores was shot, the sheriff said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/02/us/san-antonio-bexar-county-texas-police-shooting/

[mercman24]

sounds like a thai police investigation, "we are not saying if we found a knife at the scene" he he," tomorrow, "oh yes we did we find a knife, a gun and a big stash of heroine"

[rwdrwdrwd]

It's not a 'conspiracy theory', the events were captured on video by a bystander and are plain to see.

It doesn't matter if he had a knife in his hand. It's still not imminent danger given that his arms were up in the air, the officers were 5 metres + away from him, and he was standing still, he most certainly was not 'charging at officers' at the point he was shot or in seconds leading up to the shooting.

Furthermore if he did have a knife in his hand when he was shot, he must have had it there before, yet it was only when he held his arms up in a surrender motion under gunpoint that it was considered 'imminent danger' - I don't buy it in the slightest.

There is no chair throwing in the sequence, no 'charging of the officers' whatsoever, so if either of these happened they happened well before the shooting. That someone threw a chair at an officer 5 minutes before does not give them the right to shoot them 5 minutes later when they are standing still with their arms up in the air.

Some other quotes from the article @chuckd referenced that they neglected to add:

Asked whether the second video showed Flores with both hands up when he was shot, Pamerleau stated, "We saw that."

She then reiterated remarks she made last week: "As I mentioned in the press conference on Friday evening, that video causes us concern."

Pamerlau is the County Sheriff, so the officers' superiors themselves are indicating that the suspect had both arms up in the air at the point of shooting.

Edited September 3, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[mankondang]

May the guy RIP.

People are looking at this as one off, rarely occurring incident in the USA, and attempt to address the issues as such

However, looking at the broader picture,

It is not a one off, rarely occurring incident.

It is not a seldom occuing incident.

It sadly a frequently occurring incident, and the issues should be addressed on a broader scale.

What dives a culture to act this way?

Should we accept this as the norm or not?

Do we want our children to live in a future where violence and aggression against one an other is acceptable?

The USA portrays itself as the world leader in a democracy. A system of government which is determined by the people for the people. So why do the people of the US not use their power to change things in the US for the better. They are the only ones who can directly do so, just as the Thais are the only ones who can directly change Thailand.

[chuckd]

It's not a 'conspiracy theory', the events were captured on video by a bystander and are plain to see.

It doesn't matter if he had a knife in his hand. It's still not imminent danger given that his arms were up in the air, the officers were 5 metres + away from him, and he was standing still, he most certainly was not 'charging at officers' at the point he was shot or in seconds leading up to the shooting.

Furthermore if he did have a knife in his hand when he was shot, he must have had it there before, yet it was only when he held his arms up in a surrender motion under gunpoint that it was considered 'imminent danger' - I don't buy it in the slightest.

There is no chair throwing in the sequence, no 'charging of the officers' whatsoever, so if either of these happened they happened well before the shooting. That someone threw a chair at an officer 5 minutes before does not give them the right to shoot them 5 minutes later when they are standing still with their arms up in the air.

Some other quotes from the article @chuckd referenced that they neglected to add:

Asked whether the second video showed Flores with both hands up when he was shot, Pamerleau stated, "We saw that."

She then reiterated remarks she made last week: "As I mentioned in the press conference on Friday evening, that video causes us concern."

Pamerlau is the County Sheriff, so the officers' superiors themselves are indicating that the suspect had both arms up in the air at the point of shooting.

1. "It's not a 'conspiracy theory', the events were captured on video by a bystander and are plain to see."

Give the man a kewpie doll. He got it right. I said we should give the conspiracy theories a rest. Now, use your deductive reasoning and try to figure out what I was responding to.

2. "Some other quotes from the article @chuckd referenced that they neglected to add:"

I was already in violation of forum rule 14 by posting five sentences, although they were short ones, rather than the first three.

Your insinuation that I left them out intentionally is disquieting, to say the least.

3. Forum rule 14 follows for your information:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[rwdrwdrwd]

Edit - Fair enough, I see your point and was unaware of that rule - sorry for the insinuation.

Also see that you were referring to the prison camp comment. When will the doll arrive?

Edited September 3, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[Bangkok Herps]

A photo of the Houston Sheriff's Department Deputy assassinated in the past few days.

No storm trooper here. He was dressed in his uniform.

Sounds like a personal problem as I have never had scrapes or problems with cops.

Another cop got shot and killed today in Chicago.

No cop got killed in Chicago. He was killed in Fox Lake, a good hour outside of Chicago and over on the Wisconsin border. It's closer to Milwaukee than it is to Chicago, but that doesn't fit the "narrative" as well.

So far this year 25 cops have been killed while on duty...exactly the same as last year, and lower than recent averages. I believe the peak was 67 cops killed during the Bush administration in 2006...but we weren't talking about any rash of cop-killings back then, it was just ignored.

That video only shows one hand in the air at the time he is shot.

The DA's office has said that the second video clearly shows both hands in the air, and it was standing still in place. What he said or was holding in his hand is irrelevant - he was not an immediate threat.

His arms went up....

I have seen fights where crazy people run at you and throw their arms up, screaming...you want a piece of this? They keep coming...

Video without voice is worthless. The police may have told him several times to get down and put his hands flat on the ground. That's pretty much routine. If a man throws his hands up...especially while shouting and presumed to have a weapon...It still does not clearly show he is not a threat.

People are told to get down... The only time hands go in the air is when they are told to get out of the car/house with hands in the air. This man was squirrly. If I was him, and the man did not follow orders to get on the ground, but threw hands up...and possibly had a weapon...I would give him two or three warnings... If he still came at me ..without getting down (so I could cuff him)...I would be quite unsure. Not saying I would shoot..but I just lost control of the situation.

Not trying to defend the police...just cannot believe it was an assassination...a planned murder. Police do have to follow procedures. I simply want to wait and hear the whole thing out. The cop may have become confused..it which case...it was a wrongful killing/procedure....but not a cold blooded murder.

I don't believe it was a planned murder, but can't be sure. (One friend of mine who was a cop says that sometimes the process can get so aggravating that even when the suspect gives up and its "over", it's not over. He was referring to beating up suspects after they've surrendered, though, not killing anybody.) I think it was more likely an accident - officer had his finger on the trigger and was getting a bit itchy, and he flinched at the wrong time. Clearly manslaughter.

According to The Guardian we're up to at least 788 people killed by cops so far this year in America. Since there's no reporting mechanism for police killings, that's certainly an undercount - some have slipped through the cracks, been kept quiet, or simply been covered up. So many horrific decisions are being caught on video (the murders of Dillon Taylor, Sam Dubose, James Boyd, John Crawford III, Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, Gilbert Flores, etc.)....imagine how bad it was before everyone had cell phone cameras and the police knew they could make up any story they wanted to explain the more suspect of the 1,000 killings/year?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

p.s. - the videos of the killings themselves are what is linked in each of those names - fair warning.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[impulse]

Sounds like a personal problem as I have never had scrapes or problems with cops.

Neither have I. (Irritations, but no major scrapes) Nor have I ever been homeless, never had the clap, never been robbed at gunpoint...

But that doesn't mean those things don't happen. And to good people.

Now that just about everyone is carrying a camera phone, it's amazing how many sworn police reports are looking rather less than truthful. That's not an indictment of cops in general, but there are obviously some bad ones out there based on the new technology driven evidence. To deny that is to deny the reality being flashed in front of our faces in the form of video evidence.

[capcc76]

A photo of the Houston Sheriff's Department Deputy assassinated in the past few days.

No storm trooper here. He was dressed in his uniform.

Sounds like a personal problem as I have never had scrapes or problems with cops.

Another cop got shot and killed today in Chicago.

No cop got killed in Chicago. He was killed in Fox Lake, a good hour outside of Chicago and over on the Wisconsin border. It's closer to Milwaukee than it is to Chicago, but that doesn't fit the "narrative" as well.

So far this year 25 cops have been killed while on duty...exactly the same as last year, and lower than recent averages. I believe the peak was 67 cops killed during the Bush administration in 2006...but we weren't talking about any rash of cop-killings back then, it was just ignored.

That video only shows one hand in the air at the time he is shot.

The DA's office has said that the second video clearly shows both hands in the air, and it was standing still in place. What he said or was holding in his hand is irrelevant - he was not an immediate threat.

His arms went up....

I have seen fights where crazy people run at you and throw their arms up, screaming...you want a piece of this? They keep coming...

Video without voice is worthless. The police may have told him several times to get down and put his hands flat on the ground. That's pretty much routine. If a man throws his hands up...especially while shouting and presumed to have a weapon...It still does not clearly show he is not a threat.

People are told to get down... The only time hands go in the air is when they are told to get out of the car/house with hands in the air. This man was squirrly. If I was him, and the man did not follow orders to get on the ground, but threw hands up...and possibly had a weapon...I would give him two or three warnings... If he still came at me ..without getting down (so I could cuff him)...I would be quite unsure. Not saying I would shoot..but I just lost control of the situation.

Not trying to defend the police...just cannot believe it was an assassination...a planned murder. Police do have to follow procedures. I simply want to wait and hear the whole thing out. The cop may have become confused..it which case...it was a wrongful killing/procedure....but not a cold blooded murder.

I don't believe it was a planned murder, but can't be sure. (One friend of mine who was a cop says that sometimes the process can get so aggravating that even when the suspect gives up and its "over", it's not over. He was referring to beating up suspects after they've surrendered, though, not killing anybody.) I think it was more likely an accident - officer had his finger on the trigger and was getting a bit itchy, and he flinched at the wrong time. Clearly manslaughter.

According to The Guardian we're up to at least 788 people killed by cops so far this year in America. Since there's no reporting mechanism for police killings, that's certainly an undercount - some have slipped through the cracks, been kept quiet, or simply been covered up. So many horrific decisions are being caught on video (the murders of Dillon Taylor, Sam Dubose,

,

,

,

, Gilbert Flores, etc.)....imagine how bad it was before everyone had cell phone cameras and the police knew they could make up any story they wanted to explain the more suspect of the 1,000 killings/year?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

p.s. - the videos of the killings themselves are what is linked in each of those names - fair warning.

Jeez, talking about splitting hairs. Chicago, hour north of Chicago. I was conveying exactly what news was conveying at that time and Chicago is pretty sprawling when including suburbs. Pretty silly to make a huge deal about that.

RE: hands up in video

Again, you should look at my statement in context it was made. I responded to a statement that that first video "clearly showed both hands up." I simply stated that that one video did not show but one hand up because the other was blocked. There was nothing in what I said that precluded either as a possibility and my comment was before DA or any made any comments about the second video.

[Bangkok Herps]

Before all the cop haters jump in...

Lets wait for more evidence. Hands may appear to be up, but a sudden move (especially if he was still armed), would make any normal person react...as well. Any maniac that beats up his family on a rampage should be considered at least partially responsible., for a negative reaction....expecially when armed. I would be very irrate to see a woman and her kid bleeding from an abusive, armed, individual. I doubt seriously that this was cold blooded murder....probably many circumstances that are not fully explained by the video.

As if. It's cold blooded murder, and entirely unsurprising given the person taking the video was out of view.

I don't hate cops, I hate cops that abuse their power. Unfortunately, in my experience, that includes a large percentage of them.

Sounds like a personal problem as I have never had scrapes or problems with cops.

Another cop got shot and killed today in Chicago.

And...turns out the cop had shot himself.

Didn't stop it from being used for months to further the narrative about what animals live in Chicago and how justified cops are to kill 1000 civilans this year.

Guess ya'all shouldn't have "rushed to judgement".