UK Visa Refusal for Thai Girlfriend

[7by7]

As theoldgit says, for some reason your topic has attracted a drove of people who rarely visit this particular forum; none of them offering any useful advice, few of them, if any, showing any knowledge at all of the UK immigration rules!

Ignore them and concentrate on the posts from regular posters in this forum.

Ignore comments on Australian and American visas. Even if accurate, they are irrelevant; she is applying to come to the UK!

From what you say in your OP, the ECO seems to have had good cause to reject the application. Mainly, it appears, due to inconsistencies between what was said in the application and what your girlfriend said on the phone and to lack of evidence to back up what was said.

To enable proper advice on how to overcome this in her next application we need to know how the ECO reached that conclusion.

The actual refusal notice should give those reasons; so if you can post it in full that will help enormously.

But before doing so, delete all names and other identifying details.

[jacksam]

Think he did that already

[wooloomooloo]

Think he did that already

Did what already?

Apologies, but would be a positive step in getting the thread back on track with some clarity.

[jacksam]

7by7 . I'm not from uk but most of the points listed above I covered in my posts. You consider you have to be UK to try and advise on this. UK and AU applications are not poles apart. Or maybe you can run all the forums. Not you dropped by quite late

Edited October 9, 2015 by jacksam

[wooloomooloo]

Think he did that already

Please answer the question. Think he did what already?

You're comments aren't helpful, if I'm honest. And UK - AU immigration rules are poles apart in this instance.

And why do you want to argue your point?

Edited October 9, 2015 by wooloomooloo

[JAFO]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but when you say she's 20, and worked in a bar in Pattaya, but now lives back home in Nakon Nowhere with her parents, thanks to your financial generosity, tends to make me think she feels like she's hit the Pattaya Farang Lottery. Seriously, man, think about it. How many chef's have dipped their spoons into that stew before you did? And please don't give me the: "Oh, but she's different" line. We have all heard that one a few hundred (thousand) times before and guess what? She's not different after all. She's 20, you're 33, but at this stage, she's the smarter of the two of you. She's thinking with her brain, while you're thinking with your testicles. If you ended things with her today, by tomorrow night she'd be right back in the bar looking for another one, with little regret for the "one who got away".

What does that have to do with the visa refusal? The OP didn't ask for cliched relationship advice.

I agree Brewsterbudgen. The question was not is she "Playing" the guy but why was her application denied. When I read his post my first thought was to respond very similarly as Just1voice did, however its really not my place and these threads always seem to go back to this debate and end up way off tangent. Had this thread been titled "Do you think I am making a mistake?" or "Do you think I am being scammed?" then we can all comment as long time expats.

IMHO her application will be declined again even if he puts together a comprehensive package. There are far too many items that question her intent. Its best to let it go and the OP return back and get some seat time in Thailand with her and develop the relationship.

Again best of luck OP

[jacksam]

Think he did that already

Did what already?

Apologies, but would be a positive step in getting the thread back on track with some clarity.

My apologies. I mixed up this with similar thread currently running. That OP detailed the exact reasons as given in her refusal. Whoops. I do note this OP has not visited thread, probably because of some very negative posts Edited October 9, 2015 by jacksam

[JAFO]

As theoldgit says, for some reason your topic has attracted a drove of people who rarely visit this particular forum; none of them offering any useful advice, few of them, if any, showing any knowledge at all of the UK immigration rules!

Ignore them and concentrate on the posts from regular posters in this forum.

Ignore comments on Australian and American visas. Even if accurate, they are irrelevant; she is applying to come to the UK!

@ 7by7 I agree some went off and started to judge the OP but to say ignore anybody not from the UK is not sound advice. US, Australian and UK criteria's are extremely similar. In fact if you read them they are modeled virtually the same. The questions are the same. The application requirements near the same Why would you want to exclude an audience that could add value to the OP's plight to get his GF a Visa?

[G p]

Go to visa company they will sort it out for you pay the extra. And get good results

[canarysun]

What is the 28,000 baht a month that you send this lady for exactly? I am sorry but i just don't understand ( respect where due ) meeting a Thai lady and start sending her money every month? It seems like you are " renting her "

I would of thought that what would be far better is to come out to Thailand and spend more time with this lady first! it's too shorter period.Also don't send her any money and see how long she hangs around for.....

There are plenty of Thai ladies out there who would like to meet a lovable and charming farang ( perhaps a bit like myself....) but don't start sending money to them! They should be with you because they actually like you! otherwise you will have serious complications in the future.I totally understand why she was not given the Visa.( and perhaps has done you a favour too! )

Kind respect,

F.J

[ozyjon]

Maybe immigration know her better than you do.

Remember they have access to huge databases

what can i say, cry all you want, the answer is no.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Maybe immigration know her better than you do.

Remember they have access to huge databases

what can i say, cry all you want, the answer is no.

That would be interesting wouldn't it...her name might have come across their desk before with other beaus with monthly support being given. However, due to privacy rules, they're not allowed to tell these Romeos the real scoop on their little women.

[jacksam]

Don't blame the OP for dropping off interest in this thread with all the rubbish posted. He asked for any assistance with his friends application. Yes some myself included have suggested a little more time and maybe one more visit to Thailand . That's if he can get time off work. Don't know why some replies have been bit over the top

[OMGImInPattaya]

Don't blame the OP for dropping off interest in this thread with all the rubbish posted. He asked for any assistance with his friends application. Yes some myself included have suggested a little more time and maybe one more visit to Thailand . That's if he can get time off work. Don't know why some replies have been bit over the top

Probably should have kept mum about the 28k per month...that makes allot of us jealous ?

If he had just said he met a girl in Thailand during a vacation and wanted tips on a visa application for her to visit him in the UK I'm sure he would have got a different reaction.

[bobrussell]

Thousands of these '5 week relationships' have been turned down.

I really think you wasted your money in applying in the first place.

And as for sending 28,000 baht a month, for what ?

I will probably get a few negative replies, but this (the relationship,

not the visa application), is gonna end in tears.

There are more than 1 million people in the UK who entered on a visitors visa (source Border Patrol UK) and never left at the end of their visa.

The Embassy is quite right to make entry to UK difficult to keep the scammers out and ensure genuine visitors only are admitted.

Do you have a link for this figure?

The closest statistic I have found is an estimated 400-850K people in the UK without authorisation. Many have never applied for a visa in their lives!

I am not arguing that quite a number don't overstay but struggling to see how a million entered on visit visas unless over a long period of time. Obviously the issue of not recording exits from the UK makes all figures speculative!

I know plenty of people who have married very soon after meeting and cannot see much evidence that they are more or less happy than those that lived together for years before marrying.

Too many people on here rush to judgement, perhaps an indication of their experiences (or perhaps poor choices!). The applicant is going to struggle unless she can show reasons to return.

The ECO is not there to offer protection to anyone jumping into a relationship and this does not come into the decision making.

What is the purpose of the visit? Is it affordable? Is the applicant on the balance of probabilities likely to return within the terms of the licence? That is pretty much all they are interested in.

[7by7]

As theoldgit says, for some reason your topic has attracted a drove of people who rarely visit this particular forum; none of them offering any useful advice, few of them, if any, showing any knowledge at all of the UK immigration rules!

Ignore them and concentrate on the posts from regular posters in this forum.

Ignore comments on Australian and American visas. Even if accurate, they are irrelevant; she is applying to come to the UK!

@ 7by7 I agree some went off and started to judge the OP but to say ignore anybody not from the UK is not sound advice. US, Australian and UK criteria's are extremely similar. In fact if you read them they are modeled virtually the same. The questions are the same. The application requirements near the same Why would you want to exclude an audience that could add value to the OP's plight to get his GF a Visa?

I do not comment on or offer advice on questions about Australian or US visas because I know very little about the Australian and US immigration rules, requirements and procedures.

I do know enough to know that they can be, and often are, very different to those of the UK, and each other!

For example, there is a post from an Australian saying that the OP had not known his girlfriend for long enough and he should visit her in Thailand a few more times.

That may be relevant to an Australian application, but not to a UK one.

If a UK visa applicant does does have a sponsor, then under the UK rules there is no minimum time applicant and sponsor need to have known each other; nor, for a visit application, any requirement that they have even met!

I appreciate that some were trying to help; but the OP's girlfriend applied for a UK visa. Her application was assessed by an Entry Clearance Officer at the British embassy employed by UK Visas and Immigration; judging the application and basing their decision on the criteria laid down by the UK Parliament in the UK immigration rules.

What the Australian, US or any other countries rules and requirements may be are completely irrelevant.

[theoldgit]

bobrussell, on 10 Oct 2015 - 16:46, said:

BuriRamHome, on 09 Oct 2015 - 10:02, said:

thaiduncankk, on 09 Oct 2015 - 09:44, said:

Thousands of these '5 week relationships' have been turned down.

I really think you wasted your money in applying in the first place.

And as for sending 28,000 baht a month, for what ?

I will probably get a few negative replies, but this (the relationship,

not the visa application), is gonna end in tears.

There are more than 1 million people in the UK who entered on a visitors visa (source Border Patrol UK) and never left at the end of their visa.

The Embassy is quite right to make entry to UK difficult to keep the scammers out and ensure genuine visitors only are admitted.

Do you have a link for this figure?

Indeed, I wouldn't mind the link to this figure.

Also who are "Border Patrol UK", do you mean the UK Border Force?

[jacksam]

As theoldgit says, for some reason your topic has attracted a drove of people who rarely visit this particular forum; none of them offering any useful advice, few of them, if any, showing any knowledge at all of the UK immigration rules!

Ignore them and concentrate on the posts from regular posters in this forum.

Ignore comments on Australian and American visas. Even if accurate, they are irrelevant; she is applying to come to the UK!

@ 7by7 I agree some went off and started to judge the OP but to say ignore anybody not from the UK is not sound advice. US, Australian and UK criteria's are extremely similar. In fact if you read them they are modeled virtually the same. The questions are the same. The application requirements near the same Why would you want to exclude an audience that could add value to the OP's plight to get his GF a Visa?

I do not comment on or offer advice on questions about Australian or US visas because I know very little about the Australian and US immigration rules, requirements and procedures.

I do know enough to know that they can be, and often are, very different to those of the UK, and each other!

For example, there is a post from an Australian saying that the OP had not known his girlfriend for long enough and he should visit her in Thailand a few more times.

That may be relevant to an Australian application, but not to a UK one.

If a UK visa applicant does does have a sponsor, then under the UK rules there is no minimum time applicant and sponsor need to have known each other; nor, for a visit application, any requirement that they have even met!

I appreciate that some were trying to help; but the OP's girlfriend applied for a UK visa. Her application was assessed by an Entry Clearance Officer at the British embassy employed by UK Visas and Immigration; judging the application and basing their decision on the criteria laid down by the UK Parliament in the UK immigration rules.

What the Australian, US or any other countries rules and requirements may be are completely irrelevant.

That Australian would be me . I stated in that post, that while there is no rule about how long you have known her...... etc.

I also suggested if possible he could visit Thailand . NEVER stated twice. Anyway over the I'm UK I'm the only one that can contribute. Give us a Break. Read all my posts, most mirror the expert UK crew.

In addition I have helped 2 UK friends with this process .

Haven't seen any advice for the OP from you

[wooloomooloo]

Also who are "Border Patrol UK", do you mean the UK Border Force?

That's the programme my wife watches on Sunday morning on Pick TV, ha ha.

[CharlieH]

Posts removed, If you cant agree to disagree, then just move on, the childish bickering is becoming ridiculous !.

[Ace of Pop]

If you come from my country it's Easier to visit,no handouts,poor pension,so Thai Lady don't want Portuguese Man.

[laislica]

When you make such an application, you need to have the same mindset as the ECO. I will never be stated in the reasons for refusal, but here is what they think. Any application from a single Thai woman to go on a vacation to be with her boyfriend ( or even husband) who lives ( and works) in Britain ,is regarded by the ECO as a de facto immigration application. This is based on their experience of thousands of "tourists" who arrive for a visit and never go home. When you submit the application, you must do everything to prove to a highly suspicious ECO that she will return to Thailand as scheduled.

This is based on anecdotal evidence from dozens who have been refused, as well as three failed applications by my wife, one of which was before marriage. We since have 2 successful applications, The last of the refused applications was with her self employed in a successful business (well documented), 6 figure balance in the bank, new car ownership, property ownership, an official of her Moo Baan ( large village) and an elderly mother to care for. This was still not enough to prove that she would return to Thailand. The turning point ( told to me by an ECO in confidence) was proof that I also lived in Thailand, and she wanted to come back to me.

Be patient - someday you will be successful.

Firstly;

I agree with you 100% and it would be helpful if they said as much on their bloody website!

Then all applicants would provide the necessary details to ensure that the ECO would be happy to accept that the applicant will return and not overstay.

I made the mistake that I thought a man had a right to take his Thai wife to the UK for a couple of weeks holiday.

I clearly did not make the necessary efforts to satisfy the IO that we would leave.

Perhaps there should be another form of VISA - a Bonded Visa?

Deposit say £10,000 to an Imm bank along with your application which gives compelling reasons why you will return.

On exit from the UK, they transfer the funds back to where they came. Less transfer fees.....

Secondly;

What if she never mentioned the b/f but made the application alone?

Might she stand a better chance of success?

Having a b/f living and working in the UK (as you said) suggests long term relationships at the very least, and a possible good reason to overstay?

Just wonderin?

[jacksam]

Been stated so many times in this thread and others. Need to demonstrate "compelling reason to return to Thailand"

If no job exists then work on any possible thing to hang your hat on. Family ties etc etc. Need to give immigration at very least you are addressing the requirements.

Never lie to immigration but sometimes omitting some facts is the norm.

[laislica]

A lot of nonsensical replies on here, I have removed a number of trolling posts, after a genuine, though a tad naïve, request for advice from the OP.

Members "wooloomooloo" and "The Rascal" have given probably the most helpful advice, which I will attempt to expand on a tad.

The onus is on "drdavey1's" girlfriend to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer that her application is genuine, in doing so she must demonstrate that the proposed trip is, genuine, affordable and that, on the balance of probability she will return home at the conclusion of her visit, the ECO will assess her application on the evidence she has submitted.

The OP states that they put together a big pack including photos, letters and statements, all well and good but they need to be relevant to the application, you really don't want the overwhelm the ECO with a load of unnecessary evidence, they may miss the meaningful stuff.

The rest of my views are directed at the OP.

The visa appointment itself is not part of the application process, it's simply to hand in a hard copy of the application together with the supporting documents and for the applicant to have their biometric details captured, they certainly don't ask any pertinent questions at this stage as the staff there take no part in the application process, VFS is little more than a mail drop.

It seems to be common foe the ECO's or one of their team to call the applicant, or even their employers, to test them on the information that's in the application, given that it's her application and she would be expected to know the details of her application,

When consider the application, I imagine the ECO would wonder why you are sending your girlfriend 28,000 Baht, over £500, a month, you will be aware that this is multiples of what she would earn every month in regular employment, they may wonder, as do I, what this is for, they may also take the view that you would be willing to hand over a similar amount of cash if she was with you in the UK.

She doesn't need to show 300,000 Baht in a bank account, but it's not unreasonable to wonder how she accumulated such a sum as she's submitted as evidence, for sure you are sending her far more than she needs, but how did she accumulate this amount. of cash Having this money in her bank has probably led to more questions being asked that she's answered, maybe she banks all the cash you send her. It's difficult to understand the ECO's thinking without sight of the actual refusal, .

The visit to Singapore is helpful but on its own clearly not enough, I wouldn't have thought that the travels throughout Thailand would count for much, other than you've actually met.

If she works for her family, assuming it's genuine employment, a letter from the family should suffice, though they should be prepared for a call from the ECO or a member of the UKVI team to test them on the evidence they've supplied.

As to how to prepare a future application, well you need to address the reasons for the refusal, can you post that?

As the more sensible members have said, many former bar staff have visited the UK with their boyfriends/spouses and returned, some have settle there. Having previously worked in a bar doesn't preclude a person from visiting the UK.

If you are sending cash, and maybe you should revisit the amount you send, then provide a paper trail and indicate what the purpose of the money is.

If she's in genuine employment with her family, then she should provide evidence.

A month is a long time for a holiday, assuming you're at work what is she going to do all day?

I personally don't think she needs an agent, but if you do decide to go down that route, Tony and Paul at Thai Visa Express come highly recommended.

The guys on here will advise on a future application, but maybe start with the refusal notice.

I find it very interesting that the g/f got a phone call with questions, all be it that it was from the UK Embassy in Thailand.

When our holiday visa app was turned down, we had given them a complete itinerary of who (family n friends) we would be staying with cpte with phone numbers, emails etc. They had both our contact numbers, we live in Spain BTW. They called no one.

On a thread here on TVF, 7 x 7 said that the IO would not call or do any work to help get more info to justify the application.

It is up to the applicant to provide Exactly what the IO wants to see to be satisfied that there will be no overstay.

I had wrongly assumed that in providing my Nat Ins number, the IO could check with the UK tax office to verify my income.

I did say I still pay taxes in the UK.

From the many threads on this subject I get the feeling that getting a visa is more of a lottery,

get an IO on a good day OK, bad day, say no more!

As for the funds the OP gives his g/f - totally his business!

However, OP, I hope you have chosen your lady as well as I did and that you will both be as happy as we are!

(I'm 73, she 53)

I should add that before we met, I had read Thailand Fever 3 times (http://thailandfever.com/)

and Private Dancer by Stephen Leather once (this used to be free before it got published)

Reading these books let me know what I might be in for if I wanted to be with a Thai lady.

Thank goodness that I had been taught what to expect - saved my life for sure - I knew what I was getting into and was OK with that!

Good luck

[7by7]

1) It is the responsibility of the applicant to ensure that the application contains all the necessary evidence, documents etc. to show that they qualify for the visa applied for.

2) The ECO is not obliged to seek confirmation from third parties, such as HMRC, of supporting evidence such as the sponsor's earnings; indeed, they almost certainly wont.

3) However, ECOs can, and often do, phone applicants to clarify points in the application. Obviously any discrepancies between what was said in the application and what is said on the phone is going to raise doubts in the ECOs mind. But, surely, if everything in the application is true and complete there won't be any discrepancies.

4) In addition, ECOs can, and often do, phone an applicant's employer or school or similar to confirm what has been said in any letter provided by same. Discrepancies between letter and phone call will again raise doubts in the ECOs mind. As will the letter being written in English but the signatory being unable to communicate with the ECO in English.

5) It is true that the ECO must believe that, on the balance of probabilities, the applicant will return to Thailand, or at least leave the UK at the end of their visit.

However, I know of plenty of applicants, via forums such as this as well as friends and family, who have been granted a UK visit visa without having a compelling or concrete reason to return. Though, obviously, having one, such as a job, will probably swing the balance where the ECO has doubts.

Family, even children alone is not considered by the ECOs to be a reason to return. They are fully aware that many Thais work abroad in order to send money home to their families.

6) The applicant signs a declaration in which they declare that the information they have provided is true and complete.

Omitting pertinent facts, such as the real purpose of the visit is to see their UK based boyfriend, means they have made a false declaration.

If the ECO discovers this at the time the application will be refused and the applicant could be banned from visiting the UK for at least 10 years.

If the visa is issued, but the deception comes to light upon attempting to enter the UK the person will be refused entry and could be banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

If they do get into the UK and the deception comes to light at a later date, e.g. in a subsequent visit application, then that application will be refused and they could be banned from visiting the UK for up to 10 years.

If the deception is considered serious enough, the person could be banned from the UK for life in any category.

In my view; it isn't worth the risk; especially as over 95% of UK visit visa applications made in Bangkok are successful.

7) All the above apply to the UK only; I make no comment about other countries.

[laislica]

Thanks 7 x 7 your explanation is excellent.

It is clear to me that there must be many applications so the IO's must have a hell of a high work load and no time to faff about trying to garner additional info.

It must be all nicely laid out in the application.

One question:
How does one attach items like a PDF to the application or otherwise submit them?

I seem to remember that the only place to add stuff was a small note box on the online form where one could make additional comments.

[gk10002000]

The OP didn't mention anything about what the GF does in Thailand, what roots she has there, what job she has there, what family she has there, etc. On the surface it looks like you send her money and that's about it. One of the things immigrations seem to focus on is what is back in Thailand that the person will want to go back to.

[laislica]

Well GK, you must have missed these details in posr #3

Thanks for honest reply Jacksam. Appreciate it.

I don't disagree that they were correct to reject the decision and do not contest it. I merely seek to prepare a better application next time.

To add more info, I am 33 she is 20. We met in Pattaya, she worked in a bar. She has a little travel history as went to Singapore together in August 2015. She now lives in Nakhon Ratchasima with her family.

We declared all the above as part of the immigration, no false representation was made at any stage.

The OP didn't mention anything about what the GF does in Thailand, what roots she has there, what job she has there, what family she has there, etc. On the surface it looks like you send her money and that's about it. One of the things immigrations seem to focus on is what is back in Thailand that the person will want to go back to.

[OMGImInPattaya]

In my view; it isn't worth the risk; especially as over 95% of UK visit visa applications made in Bangkok are successful.

Just curious as to the source for that 95% figure, is that from the embassy, another source, or your own estimate?

[theoldgit]

In my view; it isn't worth the risk; especially as over 95% of UK visit visa applications made in Bangkok are successful.

Just curious as to the source for that 95% figure, is that from the embassy, another source, or your own estimate?

It was a figure that was published by the UKBA when they did their end of year report, they have changed the way they publish those figures, but I imagine it's still about the same.