Synthetic oil...

[garryjohns]

You posted this statement.....

Synthetic oil won't create a leak, it will find one.

Its streamlined molecular structure has no mercy for cracked or otherwise marginal seals. The oil and its additives may even clean deposits from the engine, which is good -- unless those deposits are acting like spackle on questionable seals.

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

Ahhhhm.How are they talking crap etc.?

They are saying that it is a myth as RR posted ie they say it is alright to use it.

From the above;

The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not

"From Pennzoil website;

Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle."

I am saying that statement is false and that many people will regret using synthetic oils for the first time on older engines.

​The rest is irrelevant, as to why, who and what....you shouldn't use it. If you do and you get leaks, the chances are the oil caused the leaks.

It is always a good idea to get as close as possible to the recommended oils and if synthetic oils weren't around when the engine was built, it couldn't have been designed to use it.

I'm not going to get into a to and fro with you Alan, but lets clarify what you said first to RR;

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

If Pennzoil are in fact [as they are] actually advising on their main webpage that synth oil will NOT cause problems in older engines, that it will NOT leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not also leak and clearly state that " Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Sorry , but i fail to see your reasoning that they are making a false statement in order to avoid possible litigation at a later date.

I mean, How can they possibly be trying to not take the blame when they catagorically state that everything is in fact OK?

Surely, if they are stating that all is well and good on their webpage, then they are doing the opposite to what you are saying.

Against your last theory they also state that you are wrong as per above; Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Obviously you know better.

Edited October 17, 2015 by garryjohns

[cornishcarlos]

Really ? What did that include ?

I just paid 1500 for my Ranger, included 7L of full synthetic oil and a filter..

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo............

Correct... Semi synthetic

[RidgeRunner]

You posted this statement.....

Synthetic oil won't create a leak, it will find one.

Its streamlined molecular structure has no mercy for cracked or otherwise marginal seals. The oil and its additives may even clean deposits from the engine, which is good -- unless those deposits are acting like spackle on questionable seals.

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

Ahhhhm.How are they talking crap etc.?

They are saying that it is a myth as RR posted ie they say it is alright to use it.

From the above;

The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not

"From Pennzoil website;

Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle."

I am saying that statement is false and that many people will regret using synthetic oils for the first time on older engines.

​The rest is irrelevant, as to why, who and what....you shouldn't use it. If you do and you get leaks, the chances are the oil caused the leaks.

It is always a good idea to get as close as possible to the recommended oils and if synthetic oils weren't around when the engine was built, it couldn't have been designed to use it.

I'm not going to get into a to and fro with you Alan, but lets clarify what you said first to RR;

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

If Pennzoil are in fact [as they are] actually advising on their main webpage that synth oil will NOT cause problems in older engines, that it will NOT leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not also leak and clearly state that " Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Sorry , but i fail to see your reasoning that they are making a false statement in order to avoid possible litigation at a later date.

I mean, How can they possibly be trying to not take the blame when they catagorically state that everything is in fact OK?

Surely, if they are stating that all is well and good on their webpage, then they are doing the opposite to what you are saying.

Against your last theory they also state that you are wrong as per above; Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Obviously you know better.

I believe the marketing guys at Pennzoil will say that to sell more synthetic oil.

Imagine that.

[Throttled]

The Pennzoil information refers to seal and gaskets that are in good condition (some people incorrectly believe synthetic oil can cause older gaskets to wear more quickly)- the Cenex website has some different information regarding older and possibly worn engines:

Myth #3: Synthetic engine oils can wear down seals in an engine and cause leaks.

This is an often-cited myth. In fact, if your seals and gaskets are in good condition, synthetic oil will not leak in your engine. Synthetic oil has not been shown to deteriorate engine seals or gaskets. But it might find an existing leak. The smaller molecules of synthetic oil are able to pass through very small cracks and crevices that the larger molecules of petroleum-based oil cannot. Eventually, those small cracks and crevices can lead to bigger problems with or without synthetic oil.

http://www.cenex.com/about/cenex-information/cenexperts-blog-page/oil-and-lubricants/five-engine-oil-myths

[In the jungle]

One problem with this debate is that there is no clear agreement as to what constitutes a synthetic oil.

This article explains the issues:

http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/pat-bedard-synthetic-motor-oil-gets-all-new-semantics-column

[garryjohns]

You posted this statement.....

Synthetic oil won't create a leak, it will find one.

Its streamlined molecular structure has no mercy for cracked or otherwise marginal seals. The oil and its additives may even clean deposits from the engine, which is good -- unless those deposits are acting like spackle on questionable seals.

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

Ahhhhm.How are they talking crap etc.?

They are saying that it is a myth as RR posted ie they say it is alright to use it.

From the above;

The myth is rooted in the idea that synthetic oil is “slipperier,” lower in viscosity, or not as compatible with seals and will therefore leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not

"From Pennzoil website;

Myth: You shouldn’t use synthetic oil in an older vehicle."

I am saying that statement is false and that many people will regret using synthetic oils for the first time on older engines.

​The rest is irrelevant, as to why, who and what....you shouldn't use it. If you do and you get leaks, the chances are the oil caused the leaks.

It is always a good idea to get as close as possible to the recommended oils and if synthetic oils weren't around when the engine was built, it couldn't have been designed to use it.

I'm not going to get into a to and fro with you Alan, but lets clarify what you said first to RR;

Absolutely RR, so Pennzoil are talking crap, almost certainly trying to avoid blame, or lawsuit when it happens using their product.

If Pennzoil are in fact [as they are] actually advising on their main webpage that synth oil will NOT cause problems in older engines, that it will NOT leak or leak more in places conventional oil might not also leak and clearly state that " Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Sorry , but i fail to see your reasoning that they are making a false statement in order to avoid possible litigation at a later date.

I mean, How can they possibly be trying to not take the blame when they catagorically state that everything is in fact OK?

Surely, if they are stating that all is well and good on their webpage, then they are doing the opposite to what you are saying.

Against your last theory they also state that you are wrong as per above; Synthetic oils will enhance the engine protection in older vehicles just as they do for new engines"

Obviously you know better.

I believe the marketing guys at Pennzoil will say that to sell more synthetic oil.

Imagine that.

Yes.. .

No doubt about that at all.

I agree 100%..So?????

That is not the point of my discussion with AllanB.

Edited October 17, 2015 by garryjohns

[In the jungle]

But having said that years ago I worked for a car company building race engines.

We were sponsored by New Fandango oils so their bottles had to he present in the pits at race meeting.

What was actually inside the bottles was Mobil 1 synthetic.

The New Fandango oil was sold to the punters.

[RidgeRunner]

Detergent oil used to get the bad wrap for causing leaks in old engines by breaking down coagulation sludge.

Sounds like the synthetic has additives that may be doing this.

[AllanB]

I have no idea what Gary Johns point is:- He stated that you are okay to use synthetic oils in older engines, I am saying you shouldn't.

Reasons,

1. It is impossible to say what state the oil seals and gaskets are in, unless you just renewed every single one.

2. Seals and gaskets are made from materials that are impervious to certain chemicals and that is why they specify the oil to be used in their engines. The chemical properties of SO are completely different to conventional oils, as are the additives.

3. In addition, all the extensive testing of that engine was done using a particular oil specification, so adhering to that spec makes good sense.

4. Lastly and most importantly, "if it ain't broke don't fix it", if the engine on an old car is working well and all of a sudden it starts to leaking, or play up after the switch, you can moan, apportion blame, or claim it is a coincidence that your engine is buggad and leaking all over the shop. But if you didn't take the risk in the first place you wouldn't have to do any of these things.

I have heard of cases of where this has happened and I wouldn't use it. You guys please yourselves.

But anyway we are not talking about an old bike here.

[papa al]

Right.

My KLR is only 19 yards old.

[papa al]

But having said that years ago I worked for a car company building race engines.

We were sponsored by New Fandango oils so their bottles had to he present in the pits at race meeting.

What was actually inside the bottles was Mobil 1 synthetic.

The New Fandango oil was sold to the punters.

You were party to fraud?

[papa al]

Thank you.

I'll try the Wynns product.

[AllanB]

This is not an exact science and the problem with the materials used in oil seals relates to the level of their imperiousness to a given lubricant. None are 100%, this level then degrades over time and eventually the seal may become wholly or partially saturated by the lubricant. I am sure you have taken out oils seals that are like sponges.

Okay, after time you now have an oil seal which is x% synthetic rubber and y% mineral oil... and you then change oil. The new synthetic oil is now mixing, even reacting with the mineral oil contained within the seal.....result who knows, probably a leak.

Now since the saturated oil seals have molded themselves around the sealing surface, an oil of a completely different formula is likely to have a detrimental effect on this fit. Remember too that the oil seal is actually riding on this oil, which lubricates the rubber, preventing a heat build up, so an increased "slip" of synthetic oil could allow more oil to pass the seal.

These factors may not have an immediate effect on the seal and if a leak occurs a year down the line you are not going to able to prove anything. Hence the defensive statements made by some of the oil companies "not our fault".

I have often heard that if you switch to synthetic you should not only do so when the engine is relatively new but you should continue using the same spec oil for ever and ever amen.

That's the possible downside, so what are you going to gain putting this stuff in and old or worn engine?