buy the freshest vegetables in Chiang Mai Where

[Johpa]

Johpa, you are indeed entitled to question the 'organic' nature of any produce grown in Thailand given the air pollution in most parts of Thailand especially Chiang Mai. Where exactly are your Hmong growers?

Oh, about 7km up the road from my Thai home. Contamination from air pollution is the least of my concerns. Sorry, its just that after decades of hanging out in the highlands of Chiang Mai, I am very dubious of any claims of "organic" if you find it for sale in a public market. The best you can hope for is that it is more organic, exposed to fewer chemicals, than the produce grown by someone who makes no efforts towards organics.

[WorkingTourist]

...and who knows how accurate Rimping is its labeling. Is there any oversight? The supermarkets may be 'told' that the produce they are buying is organic or pesticide-free, but this is Thailand.

If you've been here longer than a week you are well aware of the realities that exist here.

The realities depicted on this forum though are far far worse than anything I have been even close to experiencing first hand

As for Rimping’s accuracy, I don’t know what oversight they do, though I think they would fear a PR scandal more than any fine, as their customer base seems to be among the more informed, unlike something like BigC which can probably get away with murder without it affecting customer loyalty.

One thing that does make me somewhat confident in Rimping’s labels is how many things are unavailable as organic, and even pesticide free. I.e. it’s not like everything in the store is just stamped with “organic”, on the contrary, much of their produce falls into the “general” category.

Will definitely check out the organic market at CMU, as I care a great deal about what I eat.

[searcher22]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Fact # 2: The LESS fruits and vegetables you eat, even if they're all organic, the MORE your chances of getting cancer.

[namatjira]

Chiangmai joe hit it on the head, he's right, mountains is a fair description,

It seems to go 24 hours a day, most of the Thai restaurants buy from there.....

And the prices are staggeringly cheap...........about a quarter of what you pay at rimping

[namatjira]

I like the fresh pomelo, like a grapefruit, actually the genetic father of the grape fruit, full of fiber and vitamin c.

I can buy a tray at muang Mai for between 20 and 25 baht, the same product costs 95 baht in rimping....

[WorkingTourist]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Would you happen to have a source for this rather controversial fact?

I tried to verify it myself, but I just found study after study linking pesticides to various forms of cancer and leukaemia.

[WorkingTourist]

I like the fresh pomelo, like a grapefruit, actually the genetic father of the grape fruit, full of fiber and vitamin c.

I can buy a tray at muang Mai for between 20 and 25 baht, the same product costs 95 baht in rimping....

Rimping also has the smaller tray for 59 baht that corresponds with what they sell at Muang Mai.

But yes, it’s more expensive to shop in a fully staffed air conditioned world class supermarket, rather than buy from a street side stall.

[searcher22]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Would you happen to have a source for this rather controversial fact?

I tried to verify it myself, but I just found study after study linking pesticides to various forms of cancer and leukaemia.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/01/organic_vs_conventional_produce_for_kids_you_don_t_need_to_fear_pesticides.2.html

"A fascinating 2012 study used research-based models to predict what would happen if half of all Americans increased their (conventional) fruit and vegetable intake by a single serving each day; it predicted that doing so would prevent 20,000 cases of cancer a year. When the authors modeled whether this increased intake might pose risks due to the greater pesticide exposure, they concluded that yes, there might be 10 additional cases of cancer every year in the U.S. Put another way, the benefits far, far outweigh the risks."

The report concludes,"the overwhelming difference between benefit and risk estimates provides confidence that consumers should not be concerned about cancer risks from consuming conventionally-grown fruits and vegetables."

[MESmith]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Would you happen to have a source for this rather controversial fact?

I tried to verify it myself, but I just found study after study linking pesticides to various forms of cancer and leukaemia.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/01/organic_vs_conventional_produce_for_kids_you_don_t_need_to_fear_pesticides.2.html

"A fascinating 2012 study used research-based models to predict what would happen if half of all Americans increased their (conventional) fruit and vegetable intake by a single serving each day; it predicted that doing so would prevent 20,000 cases of cancer a year. When the authors modeled whether this increased intake might pose risks due to the greater pesticide exposure, they concluded that yes, there might be 10 additional cases of cancer every year in the U.S. Put another way, the benefits far, far outweigh the risks."

The report concludes,"the overwhelming difference between benefit and risk estimates provides confidence that consumers should not be concerned about cancer risks from consuming conventionally-grown fruits and vegetables."

What about "conventionally-grown", the Thai way

[searcher22]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Would you happen to have a source for this rather controversial fact?

I tried to verify it myself, but I just found study after study linking pesticides to various forms of cancer and leukaemia.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/the_kids/2014/01/organic_vs_conventional_produce_for_kids_you_don_t_need_to_fear_pesticides.2.html

"A fascinating 2012 study used research-based models to predict what would happen if half of all Americans increased their (conventional) fruit and vegetable intake by a single serving each day; it predicted that doing so would prevent 20,000 cases of cancer a year. When the authors modeled whether this increased intake might pose risks due to the greater pesticide exposure, they concluded that yes, there might be 10 additional cases of cancer every year in the U.S. Put another way, the benefits far, far outweigh the risks."

The report concludes,"the overwhelming difference between benefit and risk estimates provides confidence that consumers should not be concerned about cancer risks from consuming conventionally-grown fruits and vegetables."

What about "conventionally-grown", the Thai way

I think it would be about the same, or even LESS, considering the cheap and abundant supply of fruits and vegetables here in Thailand as compared with northern-hemisphere countries, which would offset the increased chemical exposure. Common-sense washing & brushing should reduce risk further.

IMHO, the two bigger health risks in Thailand are the air and the sun, depending where you live.

[MESmith]

freaking quotes!

Pesticide use here is uncontrolled. "More is better". Head up to the hills & see them in operation.

Edited October 17, 2015 by MESmith

[WorkingTourist]

What about "conventionally-grown", the Thai way

I think it would be about the same, or even LESS, considering the cheap and abundant supply of fruits and vegetables here in Thailand as compared with northern-hemisphere countries, which would offset the increased chemical exposure. Common-sense washing & brushing should reduce risk further.

IMHO, the two bigger health risks in Thailand are the air and the sun, depending where you live.

I don’t think you understand the problem.

In the West, pesticide use is highly regulated with several of them being banned, and that is why it’s considered safe to eat conventionally grown fruits and vegetables in the West, although depending on your sources, you’ll find studies that even put this into question!

In Thailand however, I am not aware of anyone regulating the use of pesticides, there seems to be little awareness about the dangers of chemicals, and dangerous ones do seem to be on the market, for example in Chiang Mai alone there have been a handful of deaths that were presumed to be caused by overuse of pesticide spray.

[MESmith]

Try Mon Jam, everything sprayed, probably not necessary.

[garryjohns]

What about "conventionally-grown", the Thai way

I think it would be about the same, or even LESS, considering the cheap and abundant supply of fruits and vegetables here in Thailand as compared with northern-hemisphere countries, which would offset the increased chemical exposure. Common-sense washing & brushing should reduce risk further.

IMHO, the two bigger health risks in Thailand are the air and the sun, depending where you live.

I don’t think you understand the problem.

In the West, pesticide use is highly regulated with several of them being banned, and that is why it’s considered safe to eat conventionally grown fruits and vegetables in the West, although depending on your sources, you’ll find studies that even put this into question!

In Thailand however, I am not aware of anyone regulating the use of pesticides, there seems to be little awareness about the dangers of chemicals, and dangerous ones do seem to be on the market, for example in Chiang Mai alone there have been a handful of deaths that were presumed to be caused by overuse of pesticide spray.

Yes, you are right here.

Also,it's all very well to be concerned with overuse of sprays, and people say 'just clean well before eating"

A bigger problem, IMO is where over a period of time and constant use of multi chemicals is the fact that these chemicals seep through to the groundwater and or suspended in soil particles which release when water in taken in via the vegetable roots and is contained within .

No way at all to remove these chemicals.

Edited October 17, 2015 by garryjohns

[MESmith]

There's a place I cycle past SE of Chiang Mai, where there's a pond, surrounded by garbage, that gets burned, & drains into the pond. Farmers pump from the pond to grow their veggies. I wonder what the effect of burned plastics etc in the water, used to irrigate the crops is. Not seen any 2 headed children in the area....

Probably goes on all round the valley

Edited October 17, 2015 by MESmith

[Johpa]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Would you happen to have a source for this rather controversial fact?

I tried to verify it myself, but I just found study after study linking pesticides to various forms of cancer and leukaemia.

As I noted, I have a mutated gene and yes, there is a correlation between many cancers, mine included, and pesticides. But put into context, that exposure to pesticides in the food chain is nearly universal, and the correlation, although greater than no significant statistical correlation, is small. In my case, in the generic form covering many different mutations, the incidence is around 2% of the population with my particular mutation representing less than 6% of that number. And I have had a hard time, when reading the studies, as to how "exposure to pesticides" is defined. Contrast that with smokers for whom about one in seven, 15%, will develop lung cancer. You can also get a mutation from a high energy particle released from a star a long time ago and indeed in a galaxy far, far away that happens to hit some molecules in your body during mitosis and scrambles things up a bit. Thus, and it has been demonstrated, that a lot of cancer is random. But the lung cancer data shows that environmental factors should not be ignored, so always rinse your produce if possible, but don't avoid fresh produce because it is not "organic" or because you can't afford the additional costs of shopping "organic". And never believe anyone, or anything said, in advertising. Most large businesses are run by junkies addicted to money no less than a junkie addicted to heroin. And you can't trust junkies.

[Oscar2]

Also lack proper declarations. For example Rimping marks their produce to indicate if they are organic, pesticide free, etc.

It's probably best if you stick to Rimping. Personally, I'll stick to the fresh markets. I have no need for organic produce.

I also dont need organic produce, but i am very concerned at the amounts of nasty chemicals that are used by local farmers.

No doubt vegies are fresh at markets, but wno knows how much poison one is ingesting from this produce.?

...and who knows how accurate Rimping is its labeling. Is there any oversight? The supermarkets may be 'told' that the produce they are buying is organic or pesticide-free, but this is Thailand.

If you've been here longer than a week you are well aware of the realities that exist here.

they claim you can visit their laboratory near Airport Plaza where they test all the produce to see if the suppliers are accurate and honest with their claims of organic produce or exactly what chemicals they use. they have a labeling system "pesticide free", "pesticide safe", "general", etc. all vegetables originate from that location where they are tested first.

oversight? who knows. it's a well run business but i wouldn't bet the bank on it.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Where exactly are your Hmong growers?

Up in the mountains around Doi Suthep and Doi Pui.

PS

Totally amazed that so many peeps think an organic label stuck on a clingfilm wrap means it really is organic.

Not to mention the supermarket produce is often imported from China.

What would be the fine for lying ........... 100bht?

same with free range eggs, always dubious especially as we know there are unscrupulous people out there willing to charge more for something that isn't koasha. i recall a few years back a supplier to tesco was suppling "free range eggs" Tesco were charging customers the higher price and then it was reported that these so called free range eggs were battery hens eggs.

Call me a sceptic but unless I see it myself I am a wee bit cynical on the whole organic thing as its way too easy for someone to say it is and then charge more.

My brother and I (10 and 12) used to buy cases of Egg marketing board eggs,those were the ones with

the little Lions stamped on them (this is UK), in the evenings we used to carefully rub off the Lions with

emery paper,and next day,Sat/Sun,school holidays, we used to go around the street selling fresh farm

eggs,which where obviously more expensive,we also used to sell potatoes and firewood at different times,

first steps of been an entrepreneur,start young and you can retire at 42.

regards worgeordie unscrupulous at 12,OK, but those without sin throw the first stone

So you started out as a con boy, did you see the error of your ways or did you become a con man too?

In case you haven't repented, I'll pray for your mortal soul in the morning.

No stones at hand, so you are safe for now.

[worgeordie]

Thanks for your concern Saint Joe,no need to pray for me too late for saving,

you must have been a choir boy? I just did what i had too,either that or go

down the Pit,coughing your lungs out at 60,if you got to live that long,turn

into a villain,rob and thieve,or be a grey man in a shitty factory,working for

peanuts,you came from the same environment so you understand.

It must be cold up there on the moral high ground ,Joe,and I bet you got

where you are today without one step from the straight and narrow,.good

for you,your place in heaven is guaranteed.

Regards Worgeordie, still your friend?,

[Chiengmaijoe]

Thanks for your concern Saint Joe,no need to pray for me too late for saving,

you must have been a choir boy? I just did what i had too,either that or go

down the Pit,coughing your lungs out at 60,if you got to live that long,turn

into a villain,rob and thieve,or be a grey man in a shitty factory,working for

peanuts,you came from the same environment so you understand.

It must be cold up there on the moral high ground ,Joe,and I bet you got

where you are today without one step from the straight and narrow,.good

for you,your place in heaven is guaranteed.

Regards Worgeordie, still your friend?,

Just back from church where I lit a candle in your name, so the first steps on the road to redemption have been taken.

In reference to some of your points. Not much danger of ending up down the pits in Liverpool, where the options were the docks or the factories. Also, being near the end of the chain in a large family meant that I was lucky enough to have reaped the benefits of some of my elder siblings working, and contributing to the family budget, so the need for me to get involved in skulduggery were diminished. My first business venture was selling shirts, to my mates in school, ably assisted by mother selling them from her locker at the factory. I later expanded to a fold-up paste table at the local hawkers market. Some interesting characters there.

I was also fortunate enough to be the first member of the family to be able to get further education. Lucky me. The only downside to being one of the youngest, was having to wear hand-me-downs, which was made worse by the fact that my sisters were so much bigger than me.

Our friendship is unaffected by your childhood indiscretions.

Back on topic, I noticed your reference to out of season prices. Just as an update, my latest supply of frying potatoes were 260b/10kg. Not too bad.

[worgeordie]

Thanks for your concern Saint Joe,no need to pray for me too late for saving,

you must have been a choir boy? I just did what i had too,either that or go

down the Pit,coughing your lungs out at 60,if you got to live that long,turn

into a villain,rob and thieve,or be a grey man in a shitty factory,working for

peanuts,you came from the same environment so you understand.

It must be cold up there on the moral high ground ,Joe,and I bet you got

where you are today without one step from the straight and narrow,.good

for you,your place in heaven is guaranteed.

Regards Worgeordie, still your friend?,

Just back from church where I lit a candle in your name, so the first steps on the road to redemption have been taken.

In reference to some of your points. Not much danger of ending up down the pits in Liverpool, where the options were the docks or the factories. Also, being near the end of the chain in a large family meant that I was lucky enough to have reaped the benefits of some of my elder siblings working, and contributing to the family budget, so the need for me to get involved in skulduggery were diminished. My first business venture was selling shirts, to my mates in school, ably assisted by mother selling them from her locker at the factory. I later expanded to a fold-up paste table at the local hawkers market. Some interesting characters there.

I was also fortunate enough to be the first member of the family to be able to get further education. Lucky me. The only downside to being one of the youngest, was having to wear hand-me-downs, which was made worse by the fact that my sisters were so much bigger than me.

Our friendship is unaffected by your childhood indiscretions.

Back on topic, I noticed your reference to out of season prices. Just as an update, my latest supply of frying potatoes were 260b/10kg. Not too bad.

Joe you are blessed,been able to get a good education,my university was

the one of hard knocks,but I knew from an early age what I wanted to do,

and managed to meet all my targets,

Thats good news about the Potatoes ,Makro on Friday had none at all.

,regards Worgeordie

[Rancid]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Fact # 2: The LESS fruits and vegetables you eat, even if they're all organic, the MORE your chances of getting cancer.

Strange comment, but each to their own. Something to consider if quoting studies is who funded the study. Believe Coca-Cola funded one in the UK trying to disprove any link between sugar & obesity... believe that if you choose.

Tests were done years ago on Thais and very high levels of poisonous pesticides were found in the blood. As such, organic if genuine would definitely be the way to go for those that care about such.

Also another recent study found that switching to organic dramatically lowered the levels of pesticides in the average person even over a two week period.

Roundup as well has finally been labelled as likely to cause cancer, but again use it if you choose.

[searcher22]

Fact # 1: The MORE fruits and vegetables you consume, even if they are laden with pesticides, the LESS your chances of getting cancer.

Fact # 2: The LESS fruits and vegetables you eat, even if they're all organic, the MORE your chances of getting cancer.

Strange comment, but each to their own. Something to consider if quoting studies is who funded the study. Believe Coca-Cola funded one in the UK trying to disprove any link between sugar & obesity... believe that if you choose.

Tests were done years ago on Thais and very high levels of poisonous pesticides were found in the blood. As such, organic if genuine would definitely be the way to go for those that care about such.

Also another recent study found that switching to organic dramatically lowered the levels of pesticides in the average person even over a two week period.

Roundup as well has finally been labelled as likely to cause cancer, but again use it if you choose.

Rancid...if those living in Thailand are unable to eat much organic fruits and vegetables (due to high cost or low availability), are you saying that they should eat less fruits and vegetables to minimize risk? Please answer just "yes" or "no"...do not add any ifs buts or maybes.

If your answer is "yes", then you're wrong. The risk of getting cancer FROM THE PESTICIDES will indeed decrease, but the overall cancer risk will increase dramatically.

If your answer is "no", then you agree with the study.

Even though the study was not conducted in Thailand, it is nonsense to think that eating less fruits and veggies (conventional or organic) will decrease the overall risk of cancer. Fruits and vegetables have cancer-fighting properties too....don't deprive your body of them!

[femi fan]

Great topic, and good to see it branch out into organic vs pesticide grown produce.

Let's just remember that meat comes from animals eating all kinds of terrible animal feed which was laced with pesticides for sure (no organic feed for feedlot animals!), not to mention the hormones to fatten them quicker and the antibiotics fed to them when they get sick from their brutal living conditions). My point being that even pesticided fruits and vegs are healthier than any kind of meat. The higher up the food chain you go the more detrimental to one's health food will be. If people care about that, and clearly many don't, that's fine, but also many do, then sound information is important.

There are many posters who don't believe that 'organic' means organic here in Thailand. Well, despite the greater control system in western countries, 'organic' only need mean something like 85% of the produce, can't recall the exact figure. And anyway, sometimes in life we just have to place trust in people, rather than be suspicious all the time. That constant suspicion may kill you…!

We should also think about where all the pesticides and herbicides that thai farmers use come from. Yes, western pharmaceutical companies who spread their poison all around the world. And don't tell me that use of pesticides is 'controlled in western nations!! Unreal. Controlled or not, they are absolutely laced with them, and picked way too soon, and irradiated, and travel long distances, and...

Many many thais are waking up quickly to the dangers of these chemicals and are adapting well to this information. It is also quite easy to know if a supplier is giving you organic or not - you find worms, evidence of insects eating the produce, a sweeter taste in fruits, a better taste in veggies (just try organic kale compared to pesticided kale, and you'll just KNOW that it's organic regardless of labelling!), and they go off much quicker.

Finally i'd like to say - trust issues aside - that there is WAY more organic produce available here in chiang mai than in england or australia, and it is way way cheaper. In terms of health consciousness chiang mai is streets and motorways ahead of anywhere in England.

[femi fan]

As for Rimping, well, their five colour coding label system is quite brilliant for health-conscious citizens, and i've seen no initiative anything like this in english or australian supermarkets. What a fantastic offering for the chiang mai people who have extra money to spend on their produce.

And i agree with the poster who said the PR fallout for them would act as a deterrent to conning the customer. But again, this comes down to trust issues. With all the controls set in place in europe and america, people then give out blind trust when in fact the authorities over there are in the pocket of the pharma and agricultural corporations.

And, pesticided or not, local produce when compared like for like with produce that has travelled hundreds or thousands of kms will always be healthier.

And chiang mai certainly produces local produce!

[FolkGuitar]

......................It is also quite easy to know if a supplier is giving you organic or not - you find worms, evidence of insects eating the produce,

That being the case, I have to believe that the vendors at Sriwattana Market (Thannin Mkt) are all selling Organic produce, as I often find worms, caterpillars, and insect damage in the veggies I buy there. Glad I don't have to pay extra for it!

[femi fan]

Ask them folkguitar! It certainly looks like minimal or no chemicals are being used or the insects would not be on your veggies.

I often buy organic produce in chiang mai that is cheaper than any pesticided equivalents in supermarkets for sure, and sometimes in ordinary markets.

For example recently i bought some bigger than average limes, and in fact checked that they weren't oranges. They cost me 4 baht each, were super soft, and gave me so much juice (and sweeter taste) out of them compared to ordinary limes grown with chemicals.

[FolkGuitar]

Ask them folkguitar! It certainly looks like minimal or no chemicals are being used or the insects would not be on your veggies.

I often buy organic produce in chiang mai that is cheaper than any pesticided equivalents in supermarkets for sure, and sometimes in ordinary markets.

For example recently i bought some bigger than average limes, and in fact checked that they weren't oranges. They cost me 4 baht each, were super soft, and gave me so much juice (and sweeter taste) out of them compared to ordinary limes grown with chemicals.

Just guessing, but I wonder if the Thai farmers, in their desire to save money, add 4x the recommended water to their pesticides to make them spread further, thus reducing the strength of them.

[ChangMaiSausage]

Behind the American Consulate for the wholesale veggie market. Great avocados at Warorot. Or just go to Salad Concept. Or that middle class Thai restaurant with the wonderful salads near Lanna Homes. Has a tiny two-seater airplane parked in front.

Does anyone know the name of the restaurant with the plane parked out front? I keep meaning to visit as I've heard good things about the place.

[stament]

Have you been there to eat yet CMSausage?