Clashes in Cologne over anti-Islam rally

[Mosha]

<snip>Here in some of the urban centres of the UK, certain districts now have very significant muslim numbers, their creed is entering all aspects of public life electing muslim councillors whose aim is to by and large move the general population to be servants of a local caliphate. It actually may need massive armed intervention to stop this here and all over Europe. Muslims should be systematically repatriated to their own true homes. Western civilization's survival is at stake

Do you actually, really believe this pony?

If you do, your user name is extremely apt!

In my old home district, it's easier to get planning permision to convert a building to a moque than to get permision to extend a bathroom or kitchen. Guess who runs the planning department? Latest one has them agrring to call to prayer 4 times a day. Not many believe that one.

[uksomchai]

It seems like the leaders of today want to destroy the fabric and foundations of what made a country great , these people actually want to ruin our way of life.

It's hard not to buy into the 'conspiracy' theory that the ruin of Europe as it was is a deliberate policy. To serially make so many disastrous decisions strains credibility that we are seeing merely incompetence and naivety.

Actually its pretty easy NOT to buy into that.

But you aren't going to tell us why it is ? maybe you have a rational excuse for all the EU failures that people here are on about ? i for one would love to hear them as would a lot of other posters I'm sure

[h90]

"The left-wingers said they wanted to stop the spread of xenophobia.

The anti-Islam protesters belonged to a group calling themselves HOGESA (Hooligans Against Salafists). It is made up of self proclaimed football hooligans, right- wing militants and neo-Nazis and is a more radical off-shoot of the anti-Islam PEGIDA group(Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West) which last week held its biggest rally in months in the city of Dresden."

so lucky that Euronews is here to explain the totally unbiased facts to us. Now I feel happy to know that at least there are no normal people outraged by the potential outcomes of the Merkel policies.

In Germany you can't be critic against Islam....you'll get bashed, like this Turkish guy in Germany...all his books got removed from Amazon and all book seller and almost all his books are just stories not related to anything.

In Austria it is per law illegal to be too critical to Islam (Herabwuerdigung von Religion) and people got punished for it.

[arfurcrown]

7by 7 post # 19

.

Do you actually, really believe this pony?

If you do, your user name is extremely apt!

Here to back up Mosha claims among as well as many others posters is a link concerning just how the local Muslim population consider how they should react in the pedophile affected town they created.and the people they protected.

.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rotherham-muslims-call-for-boycott-of-south-yorkshire-police-over-demonization-since-jay-report-a6709356.html

Edited October 27, 2015 by arfurcrown

[arjunadawn]

arjunadawn, though you, as ever, use ten words where one would do in an attempt to make your posts seem intellectual and educated, as ever you are really only showing your ignorance and prejudice.

A prime example being

<snip>

Unintended consequences [of western activities in the middle east]? Hardly. If one could demonstrate that these people were fleeing an active war zone, primarily, maybe.

It must have escaped your notice that there is a war going on in Syria!!!

Yes, these refugees/migrants could have joined the 3 million plus others in refugee camps in Turkey and Jordan or the 2 million plus not officially classed as refugees by UNHCR, but refugees nonetheless, in Saudi.

But I ask you; were you in their position and had the means to seek a better life in a comparatively well off country; would you remain in a refugee camp, no matter how well run?

Particularly when the example of the Palestinian refugees expelled from their homes shows that you could possibly never be allowed to return home and remain in that camp for the rest of your life?

I am aware that not all of these refugees/migrants are from Syria, some, for example, come from Somalia. There's a war going on there as well!

Anyone with half a brain realises that not all of these people are actual refugees; that among them are economic migrants. The problem is sorting the genuine from the others.

It'll take better brains than you or I to sort this whole mess out..

Being verbose could hardly be a insult next to asserting this to another then engaging with the poster's who's intellect is deficient. I dare say I would be prefer to be verbose.

It is good and healthy that within your post you clearly work out the simplicity of asserting this is just a Syrian exodus, as it is hardly that. However, you conclude, rather self effacing, that you lack the brains to work it out. Perhaps you are correct and we both do. But it is incorrect that great intelligence is needed to make the observations.

Are these "the unintended consequences of western activities in the middle east?" If you find this phrase the hallmark of intellectual posturing you had better concentrate on an arts and crafts forum. While I can be verbose, this hardly meets that definition.

Note: The father of a brutally raped and beaten child may elect to murder the offender- does this then mean we should permit this within law, or have exceptions because of motivation? Just asking. When you pose what would you do questions it is an emotional distraction. Nations and laws do not rise and exist based on emotional accommodation. Remember, those entering Europe are hardly the worst offenders, and not entirely the problem. The greater problem, and the worst offenders, are the polity who disassemble and sell tomorrow at the expense of social engineering. Merkel, who previously stated "multiculturalism has failed," is among the great sources of this problem.

[Kangaloo]

So now they're being labeled as left wing and anti Islam protesters, maybe some are, but the majority is

because Germany is being over run by non assimilating groups of people, with vastly different set of

life's values, traditions and religion, that only going to be a burden on the German tax payers and the

social welfare systems, and for what retunes? those are not cultured, well educated people, far from it,

The German people are waking up now.. and the noise only going to grow bigger....

e

They have, if at all woken up too late, as now they have let the strangers into the house !!

[micmichd]

So, everything has become a bit more radical, hasn't it?

BTW: It's the *right* wing radicals that are against Moslems in Germany, and they are only a small minority.

[Steely Dan]

Germany is waking up to the nightmare its leaders inflicted on it, this can not end well at all.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/27/watch-german-citizens-panic-this-is-our-future-as-muslims-march-through-city/

[micmichd]

Germany is waking up to the nightmare its leaders inflicted on it, this can not end well at all.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/27/watch-german-citizens-panic-this-is-our-future-as-muslims-march-through-city/

You're not going to blame Germany for British Imperialism, are you?

[7by7]

<snip>Here in some of the urban centres of the UK, certain districts now have very significant muslim numbers, their creed is entering all aspects of public life electing muslim councillors whose aim is to by and large move the general population to be servants of a local caliphate. It actually may need massive armed intervention to stop this here and all over Europe. Muslims should be systematically repatriated to their own true homes. Western civilization's survival is at stake

Do you actually, really believe this pony?

If you do, your user name is extremely apt!

In my old home district, it's easier to get planning permision to convert a building to a moque than to get permision to extend a bathroom or kitchen. Guess who runs the planning department? Latest one has them agrring to call to prayer 4 times a day. Not many believe that one.

As ever, you make wild claims yet do not provide any evidence to support them.

Try this: Islamic group blocked from building 'Britain's biggest mosque' in London. That's in Newham; an area with a large Muslim population and several, from their names, Muslim councillors!

(Nested quote removed to comply with forum software.

Here to back up Mosha claims among as well as many others posters is a link concerning just how the local Muslim population consider how they should react in the pedophile affected town they created.and the people they protected.

.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rotherham-muslims-call-for-boycott-of-south-yorkshire-police-over-demonization-since-jay-report-a6709356.html

One particular group, not, as you want us to believe, all Muslims in Rotherham!

Would you be happy if you were assumed to be a paedophile sex tourist because of the many who do, unfortunately, travel to S. E. Asia for that purpose?

What evidence do you have that the majority Muslim population of Rotherham, or anywhere else, 'created' let alone 'protected' any paedophiles?

None.

But there is plenty of evidence that they condemn and abhor the crimes of those perverts as much as any one else: as the article you linked to makes clear!

What has all this got to do with Cologne?

There is already a long running topic in Outside the Box where people like you two can air your ignorance and prejudice.

ajarnadawn;

your response to my previous only shows that, as is usual, you have either not read all of it or have failed to understand it.

For example, you claim I assert this is a Syrian exodus, when anyone who has read that post can clearly see that I do not!

[Johpa]

But I ask you; were you in their position and had the means to seek a better life in a comparatively well off country; would you remain in a refugee camp, no matter how well run?

Particularly when the example of the Palestinian refugees expelled from their homes shows that you could possibly never be allowed to return home and remain in that camp for the rest of your life?

Historical examples of foreign outsiders being welcomed into a different country are not that common. There needs to be a need for labor. When the US still had a very large frontier immigrants were welcomed. Without any undeveloped frontier remaining to speak of that welcome has worn out as immigrants simply represent competition which is great for business as it keeps wages low but bad for the majority working class. Why would a resident population want an increase in the labor supply? Donald Trump may be a real jerk, but he does represent one voice of the frustrated working class. So of course nobody would want to remain in a refugee camp, but neither should they expect to be welcomed outside their own ethnic region unless there was a need for increased population.

Interestingly, within modern historical times, Southeast Asia was an underpopulated region and locals wars were waged for labor and not for land. The winning side would return to their palace with laborers (increased surplus potential from a Marxist perspective) and artisans.

Palestinians are somewhat unique in that it was their own kind that initially kept large numbers in refugee camps. Imagine if the refugees from New Orleans after hurricane Katrina were forced to stay in refugee camps in Dallas or if the millions involved in the population exchanges between India and Pakistan were forced to remain in camps rather than being absorbed by the respective countries with millions of Hindus in refugee camps in India and millions of Muslims in refugee camps in Pakistan. One of the many tragedies that befell the Palestinians was the refusal of their own brethren to fully absorb and integrate many of the initial wave of refugees into their populations.

[Saradoc1972]

Fair question. The answer is both yes and no. The peoples and positions that comprise any culture/society are not monolithic. There are variously people on across the spectrum of this issue that are equally repugnant, but still entitled to their voice; even the fool has something to say. Hooligans and neo Nazis are not emblematic of the eminent threat of unfiltered cultural dilution, they are symptomatic. They do not support my stance, I support their stance. Because they are unpalatable and social ostriches, does not make them incorrect. Even if the political powers were blindly determined to inflict this scheme upon their peoples without referendum there are still ways in which it could have been done, even against everyone's will, which would have lessened the likelihood of conflict and aggression, by all parties. No steps were taken to lessen this outcome; none. It can only be concluded they are either idiots or invite this coming Balkanization.

Its hardly necessary for those like me to assert such points in any great depth because an issue like this will worsen in a relatively short time; we will increasingly see the pathologies of this cultural engineering. It is not possible that what I assert as a threat will not come to pass because the entire premise of these hoards descending on Europe is based on mercenary motives (both the invitation and the arrival)- either personal incentive, personal enrichment, entitlement perceptions, those who simply desire a chance to be more than they could back home, and the home-spun political machinations of the European Elite seeding a future workforce. With no assimilation mechanisms and no ear to hearken to the voices of their own peoples, only alienation and disenfranchisement will result from this migration wave. It is not possible this formula can be productive. In the end, it will injure both the host and those who are arriving. There is just not enough... stuff... to go around, and there is certainly not enough common "culture" in common. Think we are wrong? Ok; watch the World News posts on TV over the next 6 months and tell me we are wrong.

The clashes will continue. While the hooligans and neo nazis are the first on the streets the vast body of tax payers will not likely hit the streets any time soon; its not in the nature of people who spend their days working, paying bills, commuting, raising kids, and hoping for the future, to take to the streets; like themselves, they naively presume reason will prevail. So, the next presentation of this confrontation will not even be the vast majority who clearly do not want this societal treason rather the upstart will increasingly be the new arrivals, protesting, burning, raping, demanding, extorting, threatening, and killing. Watch!

YES! YES! YES! Exactly, excellent summary of what is happening.

Football hooligans will be just that, they go out to "play" with the police and anyone stepping in their way. Does not mean they cannot have a political opinion of their own while doing so.

And, yes, some old Nazis, Neo-Nazis, or other extreme right and xenophobic will mingle with them on this topic. If someone protests for something meeting a minimum consensus with them, they'd be stupid not to.

They are, as you wrote, totally unpalatable, but they are citizens, they are share-holders of the state. If they speak up without anything anti-semitic and beyond the pale, you need to listen to them, too.

That's democracy, it was not invented for fair weather only.

Those groups will be the first on their feet, in eastern Germany we got loads of normal people on the street (and the Nazis, see above) maybe because they have lived long enough in a state (the former GDR) where they had no say.

Integration is not going to happen with a lot of the people coming to Germany and Sweden seeking not safety, they could have that in Turkey or even Iran, but a better life. Mostly without the slightest notion of what integrating into European culture would mean. And it is not being made easier for them with the chaos that now reigns because of the sheer numbers and the general lawlessness that entailed. We got ethnic and religious conflicts all over the place in those refugee camps with the police more or less ordered to go pussy-footing around them or too afraid of getting accusations of being racist when stepping up to some nice Muslim fellow who's been trying to bully some Christian co-refugee into feasting because of Ramadan.

If we were to pick the educated and decent people from the masses invading Europe, yes, they might contribute to our society in the future.

The way things are handled right now, if that word can even be used, there is little hope for that, rather the prospect of civil war, or an exodus of educated Germans and Swedes.

The counter-protests are mostly staged by self-styled leftists, half of them "Antifa". That is a well-established group in Germany calling themselves "Anti-Fascists". Now go and say something bad about them, if you are "Anti-Anti-Facist" you must be... They are in fact so "anti-facist", they sometimes get labelled "the red SA". (The SA were the goons cowing counter-protesters off the streets for our Adolf back then.) They today regularly beat up the so-called "right-wing" protesters if they can isolate them, like "You one of those Nazis?" "I am not a Nazi, I am protesting with PEGIDA" and then three of those goons boot that guy into hospital, to then flee into some "Autonomous Center" where the police cannot enter unless massing up some reasonable numbers. That is what is happening in Germany now, right at the moment! The police seem strangely inept protecting those "right-wing" demonstrations.

Those guys are nothing else that the Nazis they so fervently pretend to fight and hooligans all in one. They just happen to be on the PC-side of the political spectrum.

I've attached a cartoon I dug up some time ago. It depicts an Antifa-goon with the ubiquitous rocks, bottles and fire-crackers to throw, trying to cow normal citizens protesting against islamization (carrying some billboards to that effect), saying "So, you want to protest... you just wait!". There is some money flowing from the German coat-of-arms eagle being poured into his backpack, some of those groups are getting public funding on some pretense or other, because they supposedly keep the Nazis down. On the right side, the same goon is finding himself opposed by a stately hooligan and now shitting his pants crying "Mr- Home-Secretary, do something!!!" The cartoon is labelled "Antifa-bullies are facing opposition: Hogesa must be outlawed at once!!"

[micmichd]

So, Germany must learn now to cope with minorities, even if they live in parallel societies.

Those "autonomous regions" of left wing groups are in fact ghettos created more or less by urban politics and real estate speculants. Germany can try to live with those outcasts, or reintegrate them. In case of the latter, they will have an impact on mainstream society. In any case, Germany will become a multicultural society like UK or France. Once this is understood, Europe can become a nation - a multicultural nation, like Thailand.

[arfurcrown]

micmichd post # 43.

So, Germany must learn now to cope with minorities, even if they live in parallel societies.

Those "autonomous regions" of left wing groups are in fact ghettos created more or less by urban politics and real estate speculants. Germany can try to live with those outcasts, or reintegrate them. In case of the latter, they will have an impact on mainstream society. In any case, Germany will become a multicultural society like UK or France. Once this is understood, Europe can become a nation - a multicultural nation, like Thailand.

So then you will be happy to move back to your multicultural homeland and then educate those around you concerning the benefits of your multicultural lifestyle here in Thailand.

You can then become your very own ambassador for multiculturalism a multiracial society and freedom of religions beliefs lifestyle society in your homeland.

[micmichd]

micmichd post # 43.

So, Germany must learn now to cope with minorities, even if they live in parallel societies.

Those "autonomous regions" of left wing groups are in fact ghettos created more or less by urban politics and real estate speculants. Germany can try to live with those outcasts, or reintegrate them. In case of the latter, they will have an impact on mainstream society. In any case, Germany will become a multicultural society like UK or France. Once this is understood, Europe can become a nation - a multicultural nation, like Thailand.

So then you will be happy to move back to your multicultural homeland and then educate those around you concerning the benefits of your multicultural lifestyle here in Thailand.

You can then become your very own ambassador for multiculturalism a multiracial society and freedom of religions beliefs lifestyle society in your homeland.

Wrong. No reason to return to Germany physically if I want to educate someone, I can use Internet.

I use my money made in Germany to invest it in the country that treats me like a guest, not like an enemy. This country is Thailand, and this is the country I will fight for.

If Germany becomes a racistic country again, I will fight to destroy them. There are ways to do this via Internet, too. I can even instrumentalize their laws, I don't have to like them.

Up to me, I'm not their property,and I swore no oath to serve Germany.

Hopefully, you understand me right.

Edited October 31, 2015 by micmichd

[VIPinthailand]

before it was the American dream, now it s the Islam dream...

Edited October 31, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[arfurcrown]

Micmichid.

Yes indeed I do understand you. inverted nationalism, The chip on your shoulder must be enormous.

Perhaps you need the education not the German people..

Be very careful, as you say, '' you are a guest here in Thailand you have no rights.

Noting your comments concerning Germany you have of course given up your passport and your German citizenship of course?.

Germany becoming racist?

Well if the mad woman of Germany, Frau Merkel gets her way and to a lesser degree you and your runaway kind get your way Germans will indeed become a racist and religious minority in their own land.

[micmichd]

Micmichid.

Yes indeed I do understand you. inverted nationalism, The chip on your shoulder must be enormous.

Perhaps you need the education not the German people..

Be very careful, as you say, '' you are a guest here in Thailand you have no rights.

Noting your comments concerning Germany you have of course given up your passport and your German citizenship of course?.

Germany becoming racist?

Well if the mad woman of Germany, Frau Merkel gets her way and to a lesser degree you and your runaway kind get your way Germans will indeed become a racist and religious minority in their own land.

It was inverted nationalism once before I understood there's a difference between a country and a nation.

Germany is not a nation for me,just a collection of tribal areas like Bivariate, Special and the like. If someone asks me which nation I come from, I'd say "Europe", although this is not always accepted. EU was an economic invention, that's why I regard the countries simply as economic corporations and feel free to select. The building of a "European nation" is still to be done, and it will be a multicultural nation.

Education was tried in my case.

Germans tried it with violence, it failed. A Thai lady tried it with love and arguments, that was stronger.

Giving away my German passport and nationality is not so easy, I would need another nationality. UN would be oK for me, but they don't issue passports. My favourite nationality would be Thai, of course, but I would have to marry (like planned in 2013) and learn how to write Thai letters properly.

A rollback to March 2013 (when German authorities put me in detention to prevent my marriage) would be helpful, I have to go to court for this.

In the meantime, I'll remain a guest in Thailand for a while. Of course, I want to contribute something to Thailand - not only my pension money. I've still got my skills from Europe (plus some from Asia), and I would love to get a good job here. I'm kind of a workaholic, whether pensioner or not.

Angela Merkel might be the German Chancellor, she's not the head of state. Joachim Gauck is German president. I don't agree with CDU really, but I accept some persons from there, like Heiner Geissler or Ritalin Suessmuth. Angela Merkel's politics of "open doors" is risky, I know. But the West started the wars on Asia, long time ago, and now they face the inenivitable backlash, ie. the import of that war (the "clash of cultures"). Surrounding European countries should be grateful if Germany tries to stop this spiral of mutual violence. I'm about to support them in this matter. Guess a World War is not in Thailand's interest either.