German Vice Chancellor warns Saudi Arabia over Islamist funding

[webfact]

German Vice Chancellor warns Saudi Arabia over Islamist funding
REUTERS

BERLIN: -- German Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel urged Saudi Arabia on Sunday to stop supporting religious radicals, amid growing concern among some lawmakers in Berlin about the funding of militant mosques by the world's biggest oil exporter.

The unusual criticism of the Gulf state follows a report by Germany's foreign intelligence agency which suggested that Saudi foreign policy was becoming more "impulsive".

The German government rebuked the BND agency for making such suggestions about Saudi Arabia, an important business partner that is involved in international talks to find a political solution to the Syria crisis..

Full story: http://in.reuters.com/article/saudi-germany-idINKBN0TP0OH20151206


-- Reuters 2015-12-07

[Rob8891]

Good. Chop the problem off at the source.

[Saradoc1972]

So we got an obese lame duck trying to chase a bunch of hawks, politically speaking.

Fat chance.

[Eirene]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

[arjunadawn]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

Wahhabism pretty much evolved coincidental and also motivated by the Ottoman Empire's retreat from Jihad following the failure of the second Siege of Vienna, Sept 11th, 1683. It is indisputable that jihad that began under the islamic prophet continued non-stop... non-stop since his era until 1683. The rise of Wahhabism in the ensuing silence was actually the very same worldview previously islamic leaders had, minus the adventures wars; there was theologically nothing new. A corresponding rise in colonial power and the stasis of islamic rule fueled a reformation of sorts. Contrary to what many think a reformation does not always result in moderation. Indeed, a return to core tenets is usually one of two sides of such a process. In this case purity of islam was distilled based on pure islamic jurisprudence. It would be incorrect to say that Whabbism is an interpretation of islam. It is fundamentally a pure form of islam as evidenced by the prophet, companions, and certainly first 4 caliphs.

Following the dissolution of the empire and the aftermath of WWI the Saud tribe was, for various reasons, elected to rule what would be Saudi Arabia. Though muslims will not appreciate the analogy this tribe had with the clerical class a relationship very similar to the tribe of Judah and the Levites; ruling and priestly class respectively. Thus the popular authority of the House of Saud was always less to do with legitimacy than the authority on loan from the clerical class, the Wahhabis. The treacherous and often decadent extended Saudi family continues to enjoy its unearned rape of the earth's resources by giving the clerics the only thing they want, control over the faith. Toward this end the Sauds compromise and provide grand funding for foreign islamic proesteltizing. Saudi Arabia spends vast... vast sums of money setting up mosques around the entire globe conditionally upon teaching their very own Wahhabi islam. Were the Saudi ruling class to overtly stop this, they would cease to exist. Wahhabi islam controls SA, not the House of Saud. Should they oppose the clerics, they will lose the blessing of heaven.

These networks throughout the world and certainly throughout the United States comprise an in fact, shadow government able to leverage terror on any given population. This is apparent in Pakistan as well as it is in America with the Saudi control over most mosques. Iran, shia, an arch enemy of sunni islam because shia basically contest the very authority of any caliph to have ever ruled, believes instead that an hereditary ruling class governing islam should have passed through Ali. Shia and sunni are enemies. Iran has been increasingly flexing its muscles nearly or effectively controlling a swath of land from Herat to Beirut. As Iraq has now turned shia controlled SA basically funded sunnis to act as a non state actor to leverage against shia expansion. Other GCC states also funded this. SA has always existed with radical islam in an uneasy unholy alliance of aid and refute. Thus SA has used its vast sums of money to act out its foreign policy through sunni proxies in the form of DAESH. SA is well aware that they will finally turn on SA. For now, IS has value as a proxy. The US has been in bed with SA on this from the very beginning.

[Saradoc1972]

From what I understand, the Saudis sort of like Daesh unofficially, because these are Sunni and hence fight the Shia-leaning regimes in Irak and Syria, and keep Shiite Iran's influence in check.

Probably their "interpretation" of Islam is also held in high regard, Saudi Arabia last year beheaded 500 people as per their laws.

Daesh is in no position to attack a functional state and the Saudis are particularly well armed. Unless, of course, this mass-phenomenon turns against its makers in their own country.

Same uncanny talent for thinking ahead and considering future consequences as the US, when they secretly taught the Afghan Mujaheddin to build IEDs to fight the Russians back in the 80ies.

Islam society is tribal-based and knows no concepts of government as such like monarchs or parliaments but has always relied on somebody claiming to have the exactly right understanding of Islam

so they should be in charge and, more importantly, the power of "or else". A ruling superpower-tribe so to speak.

[Eirene]

@arjunadawn & Saradoc1972

Thank you both for your very perceptive explanations/history lesson. I now have a much clearer understanding. Very much appreciated.

[blazes]

When Saudi Arabia allows Christians to build churches in SA, then and only then should Europe allow Moslems to build new mosques in Europe.

[SgtRock]

German Vice Chancellor warns Saudi Arabia over Islamist funding

Did you really think that the Saudi's offered to build 200 Mosques out of the goodness of their hearts !

[retarius]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

I don't know that it is a perfect analogy but Wahhabism is like the Puritan movement in England...a return if you like to 'sola scriptura' ie only things that are actually in the scripture...a literal interpretation of the book.

One of the things that many people don't realize about the Koran is that the religion encompasses both religion and politics. Thus the Koran is a law book and a book of how to govern and how to live. In the West we divide up the heavenly and earthly realms and have different people running the show in each. No so with strict Islam, which is why secular states like Syria, Iraq are anathema to Saudi and the Wahhabi way.

As you say the monarchs of Saudi are not provided for in the Koran which envisages religious clerics to be the leaders. I think even in Saudi, the monarchs have to appease the religious clerics and cannot take any action to offend them. If they did such a thing then one feels that the clerics would remove their blessing from the monarchy.

It is estimated that about 80% of muslims are sunnis with the rest being shia. Daesh is basically a sunni movement formed initially by the army officers kicked out of the Iraqi army after Iraq was invaded. They appear to have been nurtured by Saudi and UAE until the US decided to use them as a proxy army to fight Assad. Although it hasn't explicitly been announced Daesh are on a genocidal mission against Shia muslims and if the world doesn't watch out there will be a right bloodbath either of Shia if Daesh win and Assad is toppled; or of Sunnis if Assad prevails.

[lineofentry]

The whole world needs to watch 'The Life of Brian' it's our last hope.

[klauskunkel]

So, the German second in command warns SA to stop Islamist funding, following a report by BND. Then the German government slaps the BND for talking stink about SA...at least we have clear priorities in Germany...

Now, did Angela slap Sigmar for his statement? Maybe, on his buttocks, behind closed doors, in the cover of the night, muffled with a gagball?

Edited December 8, 2015 by klauskunkel

[jaidam]

The whole world needs to watch 'The Life of Brian' it's our last hope.

Incredible to think that an American politician caused outrage and frothing recently among the leftys by supposedly mocking a person with difficulties. When Monty Python mocked a person with difficulties (welease Wodewick....) it was funny. Look how far our societies have decended into PC madness in the last 3 decades. So sad to see. Can't really blame Saudis for it, it is the fault of our political leaders and the youth of our populations that actually swallowed up this lefty BS. Time to put things right now though.

[Sydebolle]

Stop buying their oil. Nobody realised that the only thing they have is oil and oil is in ample supply.
They (the Saudis and their friends) have ONLY oil and lots of sand.

Believe me, not buying Saudi oil for two months and the madmen financing problem is solved.

[Credo]

And that is probably a great deal of why Russia has such a sudden interest in the ME. Unless the price of oil goes up Russia will also be in a world of hurt and when it does they are in a much more powerful and pivotal position.

However, I don't know that Isis will go away whether we buy Saudi oil or not.

[car720]

Rig a couple of IED's somewhere close to where the Saudi monarchs live and then release a press statement saying that daesh claim the credit for it. See what happens.

[gandalf12]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

It is called elsewhere "protection money"

[JHolmesJr]

Stop buying their oil. Nobody realised that the only thing they have is oil and oil is in ample supply.

They (the Saudis and their friends) have ONLY oil and lots of sand.

Believe me, not buying Saudi oil for two months and the madmen financing problem is solved.

Correct…the price of oil needs to drop a lot more.

It has become the islamic equivalent of blood diamonds.

Will we ever see conflict-free oil….lol….I doubt it very much.

[Saradoc1972]

Rig a couple of IED's somewhere close to where the Saudi monarchs live and then release a press statement saying that daesh claim the credit for it. See what happens.

All 150 or so members of the SA royal family? Well, OK:

Biggest scramble for power ever for who gets to be the next Protector of the two Holy Sites, Caliph instead of the Caliph and best interpreter of Islam, supreme ruler of the biggest oil and gas reserves in the strategic ellipse, huge civil war with about a dozen of generals and their part of what is the biggest army in the region taking sides and slugging it out, Daesh grasping the opportunity to get into there with the ensuing guerrilla war,

Iran will go on the loose without the Saudi power to hold them in check instead of having to resort to proxy wars like in Yemen, and Russia coming to their aid to further their own agenda which Turkey and possibly NATO will not stand for, some major Arab faction now unchecked by political constraints will try to win popularity in the whole region and make a go for Israel, could then turn nuclear even without Pakistan handing

over the 6 warheads they owe their biggest friend SA for financing the Pakistani bomb in the 60ies, some 20+ million more refugees... or 50 millions, which might spill into North Africa and destabilize whatever sorry excuses for states there are now, already fighting their own Islamists...

I don't know if I got it about right, but the carnage will be unbelievable and it will not be constrained to "just the Arabs down there". That then would be WW III.

Whatever you think of Victor Orban, the Hungarian prime minister, I personally like him, the most important sentence he made in an interview with a major German newspaper was: "We must stop annihilating states." (like Iraq, Libya, and Syria), which he repeated once over.

[gandalf12]

Rig a couple of IED's somewhere close to where the Saudi monarchs live and then release a press statement saying that daesh claim the credit for it. See what happens.

All 150 or so members of the SA royal family? Well, OK:

Biggest scramble for power ever for who gets to be the next Protector of the two Holy Sites, Caliph instead of the Caliph and best interpreter of Islam, supreme ruler of the biggest oil and gas reserves in the strategic ellipse, huge civil war with about a dozen of generals and their part of what is the biggest army in the region taking sides and slugging it out, Daesh grasping the opportunity to get into there with the ensuing guerrilla war, Iran will go on the loose without the Saudi power to hold them in check instead of having to resort to proxy wars like in Yemen, and Russia coming to their aid to further their own agenda which Turkey and possibly NATO will not stand for, some major Arab faction now unchecked by political constraints will try to win popularity in the whole region and make a go for Israel, could then turn nuclear even without Pakistan handing over the 6 warheads they owe their biggest friend SA for financing the Pakistani bomb in the 60ies, some 20+ million more refugees... or 50 millions, which might spill into North Africa and destabilize whatever sorry excuses for states there are now, already fighting their own Islamists...

I don't know if I got it about right, but the carnage will be unbelievable and it will not be constrained to "just the Arabs down there". That then would be WW III.

Whatever you think of Victor Orban, the Hungarian prime minister, I personally like him, the most important sentence he made in an interview with a major German newspaper was: "We must stop annihilating states." (like Iraq, Libya, and Syria), which he repeated once over.

150 members of the Saudi royal family? Are you kidding there is something like 10,000 who hold the title of prince

[elgordo38]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

Wahhabism pretty much evolved coincidental and also motivated by the Ottoman Empire's retreat from Jihad following the failure of the second Siege of Vienna, Sept 11th, 1683. It is indisputable that jihad that began under the islamic prophet continued non-stop... non-stop since his era until 1683. The rise of Wahhabism in the ensuing silence was actually the very same worldview previously islamic leaders had, minus the adventures wars; there was theologically nothing new. A corresponding rise in colonial power and the stasis of islamic rule fueled a reformation of sorts. Contrary to what many think a reformation does not always result in moderation. Indeed, a return to core tenets is usually one of two sides of such a process. In this case purity of islam was distilled based on pure islamic jurisprudence. It would be incorrect to say that Whabbism is an interpretation of islam. It is fundamentally a pure form of islam as evidenced by the prophet, companions, and certainly first 4 caliphs.

Following the dissolution of the empire and the aftermath of WWI the Saud tribe was, for various reasons, elected to rule what would be Saudi Arabia. Though muslims will not appreciate the analogy this tribe had with the clerical class a relationship very similar to the tribe of Judah and the Levites; ruling and priestly class respectively. Thus the popular authority of the House of Saud was always less to do with legitimacy than the authority on loan from the clerical class, the Wahhabis. The treacherous and often decadent extended Saudi family continues to enjoy its unearned rape of the earth's resources by giving the clerics the only thing they want, control over the faith. Toward this end the Sauds compromise and provide grand funding for foreign islamic proesteltizing. Saudi Arabia spends vast... vast sums of money setting up mosques around the entire globe conditionally upon teaching their very own Wahhabi islam. Were the Saudi ruling class to overtly stop this, they would cease to exist. Wahhabi islam controls SA, not the House of Saud. Should they oppose the clerics, they will lose the blessing of heaven.

These networks throughout the world and certainly throughout the United States comprise an in fact, shadow government able to leverage terror on any given population. This is apparent in Pakistan as well as it is in America with the Saudi control over most mosques. Iran, shia, an arch enemy of sunni islam because shia basically contest the very authority of any caliph to have ever ruled, believes instead that an hereditary ruling class governing islam should have passed through Ali. Shia and sunni are enemies. Iran has been increasingly flexing its muscles nearly or effectively controlling a swath of land from Herat to Beirut. As Iraq has now turned shia controlled SA basically funded sunnis to act as a non state actor to leverage against shia expansion. Other GCC states also funded this. SA has always existed with radical islam in an uneasy unholy alliance of aid and refute. Thus SA has used its vast sums of money to act out its foreign policy through sunni proxies in the form of DAESH. SA is well aware that they will finally turn on SA. For now, IS has value as a proxy. The US has been in bed with SA on this from the very beginning.

US Saudia relations could change as there is a new king in town. He does not like the fact that the American shale oil revolution has caused them to loose a major market player. The Saudia's made a deal years ago with the US that they would accept payment for their oil in US dollars PROVIDING that the US remained their main client and protect them and sell them arms. No longer true. I think he is now pressing to have oil settled in other currencies as well.

Edited December 8, 2015 by elgordo38

[Eirene]

It shall be hell on earth once Daesh destroys Mecca. I am not religious in the common definition of religion...to be clear...I do not believe that a fiery hell exists, only a miserable life can be hell. Each religion is basically the same, a way to control of the masses. Judaism and the Islamic religions have the same prophets, as do other religions. We are the fools...the workers, the slaves that follow along like sheep for the masters at the top of this $h*t pile. The geopolitical elite...playing the ultimate chess game...that dictate what takes place on this planet years before we were even born. The old saying...what is written shall come to pass. Whoever wrote that is the author of this hell throughout history.

A few glasses of wine and she sounds like a right nutter.

Thank you for all the informative input. Have a lovely sun filled day, it's nasty here.

[h90]

Good. Chop the problem off at the source.

what chop....Some talk of please be nice....As important as if I tell SA to stop.

[arjunadawn]

Incredible to think that an American politician caused outrage and frothing recently among the leftys by supposedly mocking a person with difficulties. When Monty Python mocked a person with difficulties (welease Wodewick....) it was funny. Look how far our societies have decended into PC madness in the last 3 decades. So sad to see. Can't really blame Saudis for it, it is the fault of our political leaders and the youth of our populations that actually swallowed up this lefty BS. Time to put things right now though.

BINGO! I have said something similar for a long time. Islamic jihad is not ascendant because it is inherently powerful or even attractive.As the West abuses all its cultural mores and traditions and pollutes its gene pool with the incompetent, the weak, the non-industrious, and its regressive social engineering and equality in outcomes--- islamic jihad expands to occupy the room vacated (a sort of Boyle's/Obama's Law. In this case we are talking about the progressive self loathing of civil society, not necessarily a single person). This is the marriage of left and jihad that numerous books have been written about. They are not necessarily going to the same place, but they are sharing the same umbrella.

[arjunadawn]

It shall be hell on earth once Daesh destroys Mecca. I am not religious in the common definition of religion...to be clear...I do not believe that a fiery hell exists, only a miserable life can be hell. Each religion is basically the same, a way to control of the masses. Judaism and the Islamic religions have the same prophets, as do other religions. We are the fools...the workers, the slaves that follow along like sheep for the masters at the top of this $h*t pile. The geopolitical elite...playing the ultimate chess game...that dictate what takes place on this planet years before we were even born. The old saying...what is written shall come to pass. Whoever wrote that is the author of this hell throughout history.

A few glasses of wine and she sounds like a right nutter.

Thank you for all the informative input. Have a lovely sun filled day, it's nasty here.

Agree, with one exception: I do not believe all religions are the same. Even a topical glance reveals they are not. What is the same though is all throughout the Western World these last few generations have been inculcated into believing this cultural relativity nonsense or the ecumenical fantasy of the perennial philosophy (all faiths teasing core premises from a common spring).

[humqdpf]

I don't quite understand the reasoning behind Saudi Arabia funding Daesh. Wahhabism is dominant in Sadi Arabia it's the official form of Sunni Islam, correct? Daesh are also Wahhabi...the west is fighting against Daesh yet cozier than hell with the Saudis. I understand that this is due to US interests, the turning of the tap, on or off, the massive amount of arms imported from the US etc. However, not that this will happen, what if Daesh takes over Saudi Arabia? In the Islamic religion there are no Monarchies so the Saudi Royal family is not legitimate. Are they not cutting off their own heads by funding Daesh? Absolute madness!

Although certain very rich Saudi persons or organisations most likely funded certain persons or groups that may have morphed into Daesh, it is highly unlikely that they do so now. In any case, Daesh do not need them as they have plenty of funding from their own taxation and selling of crude.

However, Saudi Arabia or some of its wealthy citizens often funded Islamist groups in the past for geopolitical reasons or to further the reach of the Sunnis. In some cases, they took a more active role - the majority of the Al Quaeda terrorists involved in 9/11 were Saudis.

Although there are certain similarities between Daesh and Wahhabism, such as the very traditionalist and fundamentalist approach to Sunni Islam, that is about as far as it goes. It is a bit like the difference between fundamentalist Christians in the USA and the Spanish Inquisition.

There is the tradition of the caliph in the Islamic religion. This is part of the ideology that Daesh appears to adhere to, the notion of the creation of a Caliphate in the middle east. This and their declared intention to wage war against everyone who is not of their particular brand of religion, their willingness to enslave women, to kidnap and behead those of another religion distinguish them from Wahhabis even though the latter are undoubtedly fundamentalist.

[Remi080]

Stop buying their oil. Nobody realised that the only thing they have is oil and oil is in ample supply.

They (the Saudis and their friends) have ONLY oil and lots of sand.

Believe me, not buying Saudi oil for two months and the madmen financing problem is solved.

Lets go solar, and drive hybide cars!!

Come one ! We can do it !

[Chicog]

Stop buying their oil. Nobody realised that the only thing they have is oil and oil is in ample supply.

They (the Saudis and their friends) have ONLY oil and lots of sand.

Believe me, not buying Saudi oil for two months and the madmen financing problem is solved.

They are still sitting on $600Bn+, which will last them for a few years (their last deficit was about $100Bn).

I don't think a couple of months of lost income is going to break the bank.

[MAJIC]

When Saudi Arabia allows Christians to build churches in SA, then and only then should Europe allow Moslems to build new mosques in Europe.

Ok i'm going to start you off with how many Mosques are in Europe, In the UK their are 1700, bare in mind it's an Island.

Now here is at least 10 pages of websites devoted to this kind of info, which include how many,and those under construction or about to be built!

P.S. I don't think there will be any reciprocal arrangements any time soon.I hope you will send your research back to us all on this topic! shocking as it likely to be.

News Flash: Saudi Arabia, offers Germany 200 Mosques, no conflict of interests there then! or should we ask Merkel ?

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20many%20mosques%20in%20europe

Edited January 19, 2016 by MAJIC

[NeverSure]

Wow. Germany warned Saudi Arabia. How sweet! How cute! Are they going to warn the million new jihadists refugees economic opportunists in their own country?

"No more of that nonsense now"!