Can a bank sue a pensioner

[LannaGuy]

I had an English pal that maxed out his six credit cards, including buying his ticket to Thailand and then just skipped the country. They chased his family for a few months but everyone told them he was gone forever and had no intention of returning. Once they were satisfied he was actually gone they gave up and wrote the whole lot off...about 20,000 quid. That was six years ago and he's never heard a thing since....he's now 80.

Some people seem to be able to live with this kind of guilt....indeed; perhaps they don't feel guilty at all about ripping off a banking industry that are themselves no more than legalised criminal institutions !

it's ethics... karma will get him

[harrry]

Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money.

The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another.

No they can not.

Bank would need a court order, which they will struggle to obtain on an unsecured loan such as a credit card .

Court would not issue such an order without hearing defendant side of the story and in the case of OP being on a pension , the most bank will achieve is MAYBE an order to withhold $5-$10 per month . This order will cost bank in legal fees at least $10 000 that's providing person defaulting shows up to court instead of postponing 100 times by sending fax to court in the morning claiming health issues.

Each time, it will cost bank $3000 in legal fees, as lawyer court appearance fee is $3000, no matter what the outcome is, hence you never hear banks in Australia taking anyone to court over credit card debt

Section 4 Other things you need to know 4.1 Change of name and address The ANZ Prime Cash Management Account has specific terms and conditions relating to notifying us about any change of name or address. Please see section 6 for details. You should immediately tell us about any changes to your account details, including your name, bank account or address. We will not be responsible for any mistakes or losses associated with a change of details if we had not been told about the change. 4.2 Our right to combine accounts and block access We reserve the right to block access to your account. We can combine the balances of two or more of your accounts, without giving you notice, even if the accounts are at different branches or in joint names. We may do this if one of your accounts is overdrawn or is in debit and another is in credit. We can then use the balance of the account that is in credit to repay the overdrawn amount in the other account. If we combine any of your accounts we will tell you about this as quickly as possible. We do not need to notify you in advance. You should not treat your accounts as combined unless we have agreed to such an arrangement.

from

http://www.anz.com/documents/au/feecharge/savings-transaction-products-tcs.pdf

similarly for other bnks.

you have agreed already contract

[Konini]

you work your whole life for pennies, the CEO takes home 100 million USD.........so i put some blame on the banks.......

We're going off-topic, but this is an interesting topic we've veered to.

I'm going to go against the overwhelming tide of public opinion - in most countries bank bashing is a sport - and say that I don't blame the banks, and I don't say that because I am a shareholder, but I am (and we are taking a horrible hammering at the moment with our Aussie bank shares dropping like a stone for the last couple of months).

Every business is there to make as much money as they can, if they didn't, their shareholders wouldn't be happy and the decision makers would be candidates for being replaced and the bank may face the possibility of going out of business. They make that money in accordance with the law. If the law says that a company can charge 5,000% interest per month, they may be immoral, but they aren't doing anything illegal - I can't remember if it was UK or Aus that put something through this year prohibiting this gouging and limiting the amount of interest charged by pay day lenders, who are without any doubt the scourge of society (although they obviously have a market or they wouldn't exist). But as long as the law doesn't say that banks can charge 20% on credit cards (or is it higher, no idea) then they are making as much money as the market allows, so the higher-ups aren't doing what they are paid to.

The same goes for the fees they charge - if it weren't for me being a combination of a customer they don't want to lose and a good negotiator, we would be paying a good couple of thousand dollars a year more for the fees we do pay, and I snarl as much as anyone else when I see how much of my money goes on fees - even very much reduced ones - but the market is allowing it. If customers refused to pay and put all of their money into building societies and credit union banks (who offer full services for the majority of people, including online banking, credit and debit cards and - I think - loans and mortgages) then the fees would come down, but people being people they don't. They leave it where it is and moan, so the banks have no incentive to lower their fees. A long time ago, 10 or more years , the Australia government told the banks that they all had to offer at least one basic free-free account for those who were being impacted by high monthly fees, meaning that the poorest in the country were catered for. If you just get money paid into an account weekly/fortnightly/monthly and withdraw all or most of it and don't need to do anything else, it's free. Usually with the popular accounts, they are free or free for so many transactions per month and if you have a loan or mortgage with the same bank totally free. I also can't remember if it was legislated or just a stern 'Do it or we'll legislate' talking to, but it happened.

The obscenely high salaries are the going rates that have been created by the practice of companies poaching each others' staff. While they still get very, very well compensated everywhere, nowhere in the world has will ever see the kinds of salary offered in US - a mid level senior executive in US will earn substantially less than the highest paid executive in EU or Australia and several times more than those in other countries (but it doesn't stop your average Brit or Aussie and I'm sure every other nationality complaining about how much they earn). I'm quite sure that if I were American my opinions wouldn't be the same as my mind boggles when I hear of the highest salaries, mortgages given to people on welfare benefits, older people with only a couple of years left to work etc, all of these things are, I believe, specific to US and not happening elsewhere and are what the markets and laws allow. I can't say the individual executive is being greedy and asking for more, the banks are making the offers, and they certainly wouldn't employ them if they thought that they could get someone else just as good for a lesser wage.

Also, it should be remembered that in Australia the banks weren't bailed out. They didn't have to be, the housing market maintains it's steady growth up so there were/are virtually no submarine or negative equity loans (this only happens when there has been a bubble and it bursts) and sub prime lending is a tiny percentage of the bank's business and interest rates for them are so high, only the very desperate would try them - even so, almost all applications for them have historically been turned down. After seeing banks collapse in US and seeing queues in UK where panic had caused a run on Northern Rock, Kevin Rudd, who was prime minister at the time told interviewers time and time again that the government wasn't going to issue a guarantee of investors money because it wasn't necessary, banks themselves are guaranteed due to legislation that has been in place forever and that is helped by their own prudence; not accepting loan or mortgage applications from anyone who the even suspect couldn't meet the monthly payments, and very conservative calculation of the amount an applicant can pay each month and therefore lend, but the tabloid newspapers and current affairs programs whipped their consumers up to so much of a frenzy that he issued said bank guarantee.

The banks are doing what both the law and the customers allow nothing more.

I can only speak to countries I've lived in, things appear to be very different in US - I've never understood how the official interest rate is zero and people are charged more, sometimes a lot more than 1 or 2 % interest for so many years, and I don't know what personal loan, credit card and mortgage interest rates or how much is charged in fees. I've learned recently that not only does the US still use a lot of cheques (I had a very young teller in UK a few of years ago who looked puzzled when I handed him the cash cheque I'd written from my own account (it had no linked ATM card for security) and just contemplated it for a while before asking me what it was. He then had to ask someone else what it was and what to do with it, leaving me feeling very old).

In Australia we still have a chequebook for our Superannuation Fund account, but that's all - and we haven't written a cheque for years, everything is just a case of 'What's your bank account number, I'll transfer it straight away'. Pretty much every transaction from paying bills to getting tax refunds are done electronically. I don't think any other account we have has the option of having a cheque book any more, including the one in UK which the bank transferred the balance to an account ATM card a couple of years ago when the bank no longer supported 'that kind of account'. But generally no cheques in Australia and I think UK, even my mother has an ATM card now (although she refuses to use the machine no matter how many times the tellers say she doesn't have to wait in the line and somebody will help her). I also learned that the US banks take a picture of the cheque on receipt then there's another picture when the originating bank gets it and you are notified it is presented. That sounds like a huge amount of (in my opinion unnecessary) work and is maybe not typical, but it seems common, so many of the other services provided by banks may be a lot more complex than I'm used to and the fees correspondingly higher (we have one account (not with my main bank) that charges $10/month and feel that is outrageous but it is typical for someone who doesn't have a mortgage linked to it which would make it fee free. I should really move it to a free credit union account, but meh - people being people etc means I can't be bothered; it's only $10/month). I'm also quite perplexed by this issue of mortgages being sold on, I've never heard of it before).

So, after all that, I can say that's why I don't blame or bash banks. They are not a social welfare department, they are there to make money. I would hope that there are alternatives such as building societies and credit unions in all countries.

[uptheos]

I had an English pal that maxed out his six credit cards, including buying his ticket to Thailand and then just skipped the country. They chased his family for a few months but everyone told them he was gone forever and had no intention of returning. Once they were satisfied he was actually gone they gave up and wrote the whole lot off...about 20,000 quid. That was six years ago and he's never heard a thing since....he's now 80.

Some people seem to be able to live with this kind of guilt....indeed; perhaps they don't feel guilty at all about ripping off a banking industry that are themselves no more than legalised criminal institutions !

it's ethics... karma will get him

Yeah right, not if it gets the greedy banks that sent billions down the drain first!

If the guy was from the UK and he's had no contact whatsoever with the bank or made any inquiries within those 6 years, then the debt is now statute barred under British law and they can go whistle Dixie. It doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist, but it does mean that it is noncollectable and to try and do so is illegal and the bank/collection agency can be reported to the Fair Standards Trading Office. Collection agencies are now being fined big amounts for illegally trying to collect noncollectable debts by threat or deception.

Tell you 80 year old friend to live out his life in peace, karma isn't coming to him!

[uptheos]

I had an English pal that maxed out his six credit cards, including buying his ticket to Thailand and then just skipped the country. They chased his family for a few months but everyone told them he was gone forever and had no intention of returning. Once they were satisfied he was actually gone they gave up and wrote the whole lot off...about 20,000 quid. That was six years ago and he's never heard a thing since....he's now 80.

Some people seem to be able to live with this kind of guilt....indeed; perhaps they don't feel guilty at all about ripping off a banking industry that are themselves no more than legalised criminal institutions !

it's ethics... karma will get him

Yeah right, not if it gets the greedy banks that sent billions down the drain first!

If the guy was from the UK and he's had no contact whatsoever with the bank or made any inquiries within those 6 years, then the debt is now statute barred under British law and they can go whistle Dixie. It doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist, but it does mean that it is noncollectable and to try and do so is illegal and the bank/collection agency can be reported to the Fair Standards Trading Office. Collection agencies are now being fined big amounts for illegally trying to collect noncollectable debts by threat or deception.

Tell you 80 year old friend to live out his life in peace, karma isn't coming to him!

[uptheos]

I had an English pal that maxed out his six credit cards, including buying his ticket to Thailand and then just skipped the country. They chased his family for a few months but everyone told them he was gone forever and had no intention of returning. Once they were satisfied he was actually gone they gave up and wrote the whole lot off...about 20,000 quid. That was six years ago and he's never heard a thing since....he's now 80.

Some people seem to be able to live with this kind of guilt....indeed; perhaps they don't feel guilty at all about ripping off a banking industry that are themselves no more than legalised criminal institutions !

it's ethics... karma will get him

Yeah right, not if it gets the greedy banks that sent billions down the drain first!

If the guy was from the UK and he's had no contact whatsoever with the bank or made any inquiries within those 6 years, then the debt is now statute barred under British law and they can go whistle Dixie. It doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist, but it does mean that it is noncollectable and to try and do so is illegal and the bank/collection agency can be reported to the Fair Standards Trading Office. Collection agencies are now being fined big amounts for illegally trying to collect noncollectable debts by threat or deception.

Tell you 80 year old friend to live out his life in peace, karma isn't coming to him!

[uptheos]

I had an English pal that maxed out his six credit cards, including buying his ticket to Thailand and then just skipped the country. They chased his family for a few months but everyone told them he was gone forever and had no intention of returning. Once they were satisfied he was actually gone they gave up and wrote the whole lot off...about 20,000 quid. That was six years ago and he's never heard a thing since....he's now 80.

Some people seem to be able to live with this kind of guilt....indeed; perhaps they don't feel guilty at all about ripping off a banking industry that are themselves no more than legalised criminal institutions !

it's ethics... karma will get him

Yeah right, not if it gets the greedy banks that sent billions down the drain first!

If the guy was from the UK and he's had no contact whatsoever with the bank or made any inquiries within those 6 years, then the debt is now statute barred under British law and they can go whistle Dixie. It doesn't mean the debt doesn't exist, but it does mean that it is noncollectable and to try and do so is illegal and the bank/collection agency can be reported to the Fair Standards Trading Office. Collection agencies are now being fined big amounts for illegally trying to collect noncollectable debts by threat or deception.

Tell you 80 year old friend to live out his life in peace, karma isn't coming to him!

[Paul944]

So he has 800,000 baht on a Thai bank but he does not want to use it to pay his debts because it would mean he has to leave Thailand.

Assuming the credit card is issued by an Australian company, he has no possessions in Australia and he only will go back to Australia after all his money is gone and he needs more medical care, he has not much to fear. Only getting a new credit card could be difficult if they do a background check.

Better enjoy live as long you can. But I would not live comfortable knowing that the next hospital visit could result in a deportation.

[Mousehound]

Before people get too sympathetic with Oz banks. During the days they were allowed they gave anyone extraordinary credit that could never be repaid. They offered me a loan of 950k and the repayments of the interest alone was double my earnings. When I queried this they said it was not their problem. This was a result of commission sales contractors. After the collapse the Oz Gov had to guarantee deposit funds

with public monies. Yet they bleat about low earnings in spite of the fact they are the most profitable banks in the world. Charging 18-21% interest when they can borrow the monies for 4.5% or lower is a pretty hefty margin and in fact builds in these sorts of losses. If anyone thinks that if there were no bad debts the banks would lower their rates they are dreaming. The banks will go for as much as they can get. To say that this is legal is correct. But it doesn't get my sympathy any more than high flyers that avoid taxes do.

Also, before people get too high and mighty about ethics. If you have a life threatening or extreme event and no monies but a line of credit would you not use it? Or how about you have no monies but your wife or child got sick, would you not use the credit available? I think this is human nature. And surely better than those that rack up credit on a lavish life style with no intention of paying it back and even worse procure goods and services from small businesses then declare bankrupt and open up again weeks later under a family members name.

I don't know the individual concerned or the circumstances other than the rather sketchy information provided. I sure would not feel I should condemn the person without a fuller understanding of the situation.

"There but for the grace of God....".

[arunsakda]

Maybe they need to open debtors prisons again?

[konying]

Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money.

The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another.

No they can not.

Bank would need a court order, which they will struggle to obtain on an unsecured loan such as a credit card .

Court would not issue such an order without hearing defendant side of the story and in the case of OP being on a pension , the most bank will achieve is MAYBE an order to withhold $5-$10 per month . This order will cost bank in legal fees at least $10 000 that's providing person defaulting shows up to court instead of postponing 100 times by sending fax to court in the morning claiming health issues.

Each time, it will cost bank $3000 in legal fees, as lawyer court appearance fee is $3000, no matter what the outcome is, hence you never hear banks in Australia taking anyone to court over credit card debt

Section 4 Other things you need to know 4.1 Change of name and address The ANZ Prime Cash Management Account has specific terms and conditions relating to notifying us about any change of name or address. Please see section 6 for details. You should immediately tell us about any changes to your account details, including your name, bank account or address. We will not be responsible for any mistakes or losses associated with a change of details if we had not been told about the change. 4.2 Our right to combine accounts and block access We reserve the right to block access to your account. We can combine the balances of two or more of your accounts, without giving you notice, even if the accounts are at different branches or in joint names. We may do this if one of your accounts is overdrawn or is in debit and another is in credit. We can then use the balance of the account that is in credit to repay the overdrawn amount in the other account. If we combine any of your accounts we will tell you about this as quickly as possible. We do not need to notify you in advance. You should not treat your accounts as combined unless we have agreed to such an arrangement.

from

http://www.anz.com/documents/au/feecharge/savings-transaction-products-tcs.pdf

similarly for other bnks.

you have agreed already contract

You are mixing 2 different things into one cup.

Savings accounts,, or in your example cash management account and credit cards have nothing to do with each other,

If i have a credit card with ANZ bank actual credit card, not one of those linked to your savings account, and i have an outstanding amoun, bank can not go into my savings account and take the money owed,

[Jip99]

Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money.

The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another.

No they can not.

Bank would need a court order, which they will struggle to obtain on an unsecured loan such as a credit card .

Court would not issue such an order without hearing defendant side of the story and in the case of OP being on a pension , the most bank will achieve is MAYBE an order to withhold $5-$10 per month . This order will cost bank in legal fees at least $10 000 that's providing person defaulting shows up to court instead of postponing 100 times by sending fax to court in the morning claiming health issues.

Each time, it will cost bank $3000 in legal fees, as lawyer court appearance fee is $3000, no matter what the outcome is, hence you never hear banks in Australia taking anyone to court over credit card debt

Section 4 Other things you need to know 4.1 Change of name and address The ANZ Prime Cash Management Account has specific terms and conditions relating to notifying us about any change of name or address. Please see section 6 for details. You should immediately tell us about any changes to your account details, including your name, bank account or address. We will not be responsible for any mistakes or losses associated with a change of details if we had not been told about the change. 4.2 Our right to combine accounts and block access We reserve the right to block access to your account. We can combine the balances of two or more of your accounts, without giving you notice, even if the accounts are at different branches or in joint names. We may do this if one of your accounts is overdrawn or is in debit and another is in credit. We can then use the balance of the account that is in credit to repay the overdrawn amount in the other account. If we combine any of your accounts we will tell you about this as quickly as possible. We do not need to notify you in advance. You should not treat your accounts as combined unless we have agreed to such an arrangement.

from

http://www.anz.com/documents/au/feecharge/savings-transaction-products-tcs.pdf

similarly for other bnks.

you have agreed already contract

You are mixing 2 different things into one cup.

Savings accounts,, or in your example cash management account and credit cards have nothing to do with each other,

If i have a credit card with ANZ bank actual credit card, not one of those linked to your savings account, and i have an outstanding amoun, bank can not go into my savings account and take the money owed,

That is incorrect.

A bank's right of set-off extends to credit card debts and they can apply funds from ANY other account in the same name/right to repay the card debt.

Caveat - this is UK law but I doubt the Aussies are too far adrift.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/40/40_setoff.htm

http://www.choose.net/money/guide/faqs/repaying-debts-banks-right-setting-off.html

[Jip99]

So he has 800,000 baht on a Thai bank but he does not want to use it to pay his debts because it would mean he has to leave Thailand.

Assuming the credit card is issued by an Australian company, he has no possessions in Australia and he only will go back to Australia after all his money is gone and he needs more medical care, he has not much to fear. Only getting a new credit card could be difficult if they do a background check.

Better enjoy live as long you can. But I would not live comfortable knowing that the next hospital visit could result in a deportation.

I would be more concerned about the next hospital visit resulting in death.

Thai hospitals are not renowned for giving treatment before obtaining payment.

[arunsakda]

Can somebody with a number of US based cards run up huge debts then FO to Thailand thumbing nose to all and sundry?

[harrry]

Australian banks can generally stop all accounts where money is owed on one however with pensions they are not able to hold I believe it is the last 6 pension payments. If he needs to best to get centrelink to transfer his pension now to a thai bank so he has some money.

The moral situation is on thing, his survival is another.

No they can not.

Bank would need a court order, which they will struggle to obtain on an unsecured loan such as a credit card .

Court would not issue such an order without hearing defendant side of the story and in the case of OP being on a pension , the most bank will achieve is MAYBE an order to withhold $5-$10 per month . This order will cost bank in legal fees at least $10 000 that's providing person defaulting shows up to court instead of postponing 100 times by sending fax to court in the morning claiming health issues.

Each time, it will cost bank $3000 in legal fees, as lawyer court appearance fee is $3000, no matter what the outcome is, hence you never hear banks in Australia taking anyone to court over credit card debt

Section 4 Other things you need to know 4.1 Change of name and address The ANZ Prime Cash Management Account has specific terms and conditions relating to notifying us about any change of name or address. Please see section 6 for details. You should immediately tell us about any changes to your account details, including your name, bank account or address. We will not be responsible for any mistakes or losses associated with a change of details if we had not been told about the change. 4.2 Our right to combine accounts and block access We reserve the right to block access to your account. We can combine the balances of two or more of your accounts, without giving you notice, even if the accounts are at different branches or in joint names. We may do this if one of your accounts is overdrawn or is in debit and another is in credit. We can then use the balance of the account that is in credit to repay the overdrawn amount in the other account. If we combine any of your accounts we will tell you about this as quickly as possible. We do not need to notify you in advance. You should not treat your accounts as combined unless we have agreed to such an arrangement.

from

http://www.anz.com/documents/au/feecharge/savings-transaction-products-tcs.pdf

similarly for other bnks.

you have agreed already contract

You are mixing 2 different things into one cup.

Savings accounts,, or in your example cash management account and credit cards have nothing to do with each other,

If i have a credit card with ANZ bank actual credit card, not one of those linked to your savings account, and i have an outstanding amoun, bank can not go into my savings account and take the money owed,

In australia the credit cards are bank account cards...the credit account they have is actually considered an accountt.

they can

[Mousehound]

Maybe they need to open debtors prisons again?

Not sure that would help as, certainly in Australia's case, everyone is in debt. Most of the debt is private with the greatest share traditionally being that of the banks - which during the Financial Crisis was guaranteed by the public purse. The Government (the people) are also in debt. But then again I guess Australia was set up as a prison for Europeans. Not sure that Americans are much better off. I hear they have a bit of debt as well. Didn't a fair number of Europe just have their debt written off? How are they any different to the person described in the OP?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-10/verrender-bank-bailouts-its-now-taxpayers-who-need-protection/5878418