Australia resists US pressure to boost efforts against IS

[lostboy]

If the US...ie Obama...had taken IS seriously a couple of years ago...when most of his top advisors were urging him to create a concensus of allies to fight IS...then the world would be a safer place today...

Those brave US patriots who came forward to warn the public of the existential threat IS posed to the US and the world...many lost their jobs as Obama saw them as a threat to his imperial Presidency...he surrounds himself with "Yes" men...does not encourage a wide exchange of ideas...

Obama has removed both civilian experts as well as military experts when they did not fall in line with the Obama view that IS was just a minor nuance confined to the ME...

The list of domestic and foreign policy failures during his tenure is enormous...

Stand your ground Australia...the US will soon be under new leadership...

There is not one fact or detail that you can present to back up one word of what you have claimed that is not ideologically tainted. Not one objective, verifiable fact.

Since you are a Trump supporter, I will assume that you know nothing about Australia. I don't mean the Australia that is on the right hand side of Germany or the Australia that Judy Garland visited in the 1930's in her ruby slippers. So for your benefit, I can let you know that Australia is a multicultural society completely comprised of immigrants with the exception of a small indigenous population. I can tell you that diversity strengthens Australia while respecting the historic foundations of the Australian culture. If you ever want to visit Australia, to get your visa, you have to sign a statement that you have read and understood a statement of principles on Australian Values. This statement includes words like 'mutual respect, tolerance and fair play' https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Life/Aust/living-in-australia-values-statement-long

I can tell you that Australia has a sophisticated criminal justice system that is applied in a non discriminatory manner and effectively deals with criminal activity. Terrorism is a criminal activity. It will be defeated by a criminal justice approach not a military approach. ISIS is a political organisation. ISIS will be effectively engaged on a political level, not a military level. Australian's do not feel threatened by their government. Many Australians including myself own or owned guns but not for defence against any tyrannical government. Neither do Australians need guns because of an irrational fear of terrorists who are thousands of miles away and those who come to Australia or originate in Australia are identified, captured, tried and punished according to the law.

Muslim people have contributed to the development of Australia and continue to do so. Muslim people helped open up the centre of Australia for rail transportation and the construction of a telegraph line that linked Australia to the world in the 19th Century. From these muslims of the 19th Century to muslims from the Eastern Mediterranean who cam to Australia in the 50's to other Muslims who arrived more recently, all who seek regularised status, including citizenship are welcome.

I could go on. I could tell you about the development of Australia's defence strategy and posture oner time, its relationships with Britain, its relationships with the US. But all this is wasted. You are, after all, a Trump supporter. An entire post on a thread about Australia and you spend 95% of it talking about Obama. I think we will take your advice to 'stand our ground' with the consideration that such a foolish, ignorant, facile comment deserves. Exactly none. I don't think you will be allowed to visit Australia since you cannot honestly sign the statement of Australian Values without committing a perjury.

Oh my goodness, how superior you are. Apparently, compared to your exalted hineyness, the U.S. is a land of primitive savages. How much time have you spent there? Screw your values, you sound like a very unfriendly, unwelcoming (except to Muslims) society. Besides, you're an apologist for Muslim extremists. ISIS a POLITICAL organization? No, it isn't--it's a vile group of Muslim serial killers.

It is always welcome when someone turns what I have said back on to me personally. Even though it takes the discussion off topic and is frowned upon by the Powers That Be, it is fun for me to talk about myself. I do hope that the others who are lurking in the shadows behind you, including the originator of this particular discussion agree. So since you direct your response to me personally, let me just start by saying that I have lived, studied, worked and paid taxes in the US. I have lived in 3 different locations over the years - North West Oregon, L.A. California and spent time on a US Army base (Fort Eustice) in Virginia along the Chesapeake Bay. Clearly I am Australian but have been travelling back and forth to the US for the past 36 years. For my own amusement, I counted the number of states I have visited and it comes to 30 out of the 50 US states. The headquarters of the organisation I currently work for is in Washington DC. It is an insignificant international financial institution owned by 188 countries around the World and with a capitalisation of around $253 billion. I have had the opportunity to be responsible for the preparation of official dialogues between US and Thai agencies on a number of economic and infrastructure issues, as I have with a number of other countries on behalf of 3 separate Thai institutions over the past 20 years.

However, I am wondering what my knowledge of and experience with America and its inhabitants has to do with what I informed GGT about Australian values?

I am so sorry that you took offence to the values so explicitly expressed in the Statement formally issued by the Australian Government. I can understand that for the redneck crowd, now called the Trump Demographic, it must be quite a challenge to accept the idea of mutual respect and tolerance. It is after all the very foundation of Western Liberal democracies, including that of the US. I can understand your incomprehension of the concept of fair play. This is uniquely Australian and has deep roots in the foundation of Australia as a country and the cultural underpinnings of our society. However, the form of your resentment of intelligently articulated expression is quite ironic. I know from long experience that some Americans find it difficult to do irony but if you had actually read the Australian Values Statement instead of spitting your dummy (sorry that is an Australian colloquialism) then you would have seen the word Egalitarian proudly imprinted at the core of the Values Statement. I can only assume you have an ingrained inferiority complex, not uncommon in the Trump Demographic, to respond with such hostile and self deprecation. There is nothing chauvinistic about what I have said. I am proud of Australia, its diversity and egalitarianism. How this impacts on you is your business.

On your grasp on realpolitik, you are on particularly dangerous ground. Your mindset is unfortunately reflected by quite a few American decision makers, policy wonks and influencers of opinion. I have worked in muslim countries that have been subject to US policy initiatives. Have you? I have dealt directly with the consequences of policy and military actions based on lies, deceit and mis-representations. I first worked in Afghanistan in 2005. At that time Taliban was the ISIS of the time. They were the boogey men. Within days of starting work there, it was clear to me that dialogue was the only solution to the issue i.e. a political solution. By the time those projects were finished 2 years later, even the US led military forces were starting to acknowledge this. I will be there again in 3 weeks time, working in an environment that has been made seriously dangerous by the inability of the US led group to properly deal with the consequences of their decisions. Please look up the word 'realpolitik'. It makes a complete mockery of your response.

I will end this little foray into my personal history with an observation that your insults are pretty anaemic. As some Australians say, they are like being flogged with a piece of wet lettuce. I apologise for no-one. I provide information about Australian values, society and culture and you say that this means I support terrorist killers. I must say that I am always delighted when my stalkers express concern about what they assume is my medication. Or when they take a strong interest in my mental health. These passive aggressive micro-aggressions are amusing. They are really a consequence of limited intellect and education. Smart people with a solid education grounding can insult people much better than the intellectually constrained set i.e. the Trump Demographic.

Please feel free to live your life in terror of a fantasy. Let the serious people attend to the political, military, and socio-economic issues that surround the realities of political solutions to these issues. Enjoy the beach. Enjoy your beer. Enjoy your GIK. Vote for Trump. Just don't bother applying for a visa to visit Australia.

[Mr Money Bags]

Oz wont resist for long. We are used to bending over for US

I'm sure they'll change their mind after their turn comes around.

Precisely.

How long will the Aussies hold out against seriously fighting these animals when the Paris attacks happen in Sydney?

Yeah, about that long, I hope......

You're Welcome!!

[simple1]

Oz wont resist for long. We are used to bending over for US

I'm sure they'll change their mind after their turn comes around.

Precisely.

How long will the Aussies hold out against seriously fighting these animals when the Paris attacks happen in Sydney?

Yeah, about that long, I hope......

You're Welcome!!

Australia is beholden to the US led coalition. I seriously doubt the Oz government would commit ground forces to engage in combat outside of the coalition chain of command in Iraq / Syria.

Edited January 15, 2016 by simple1

[OMGImInPattaya]

They can't help more...they got no guns.

[Credo]

Australia is a true coalition ally and they will be there when they are really needed. Sometimes it's better to have some backup than to have everyone all gung-ho right from the beginning.

I trust that the Australia's have consulted both within the country as well as with the allies about what they can and will do and when

[Linky]

Australia is a true coalition ally and they will be there when they are really needed. Sometimes it's better to have some backup than to have everyone all gung-ho right from the beginning.

I trust that the Australia's have consulted both within the country as well as with the allies about what they can and will do and when

Australians helped the British in WW1 and WW2 and have always helped, they just need to be asked (that is policy).

But you wont hear aussies continue to tell the brits for the next hundred years that they owe them something and should be forever grateful and in their debt. They helped because it was the right thing to do.

[metisdead]

A post of a conspiratorial nature has been removed has been removed as well as the replies.