Shock treatment as Songkran drunk drivers visit the morgue

[bluesofa]

OK., something different but it would still be better to take and crush their vehicles. Waste of time taking licenses because that doesn't deter Thais from driving. They should make it a law that anyone buying a new vehicle should produce a driving license too.

I think crushing the vehicle would be more effective too. There was a letter in The Nation on 20 April suggesting this.

I noticed another post that was in favour of publishing the names of convicted drunk drivers. I think that would help, in a country where "face" is so important, The advance knowledge of a loss of face along with a photo and home address being published is a step in the right direction.

[rkidlad]

God, this is painful.

Stop wearing kiddy gloves and punish them accordingly. Stop with taking people's cars away for the night or showing them dead bodies. Take away their licenses, heavy fines and inprisonment if warranted.

Stop acting like kids. If you really wanna add to the punishment, have a name and shame section in newspapers, etc. Have a pic of convicted driver saying "I'm a selfish moron who endangers other's lives"

Sadly the problem is more complex than such actions would prevent much. In the case of drunk drivers even if those who actually have one were to have it taken away would still drive. And often in a vehicle that is not their own. If any really effective blitz on drunk drivers were to be carried out the sheer numbers would clog the courts and there would be standing room only in prisons. Community programs with mandatory shock tactics such as morgue visits might at least instill a little more reality than the resentment of a prison sentence. Fines are pointless because they rarely get paid. Even countries with zero alchol limits on drivers still have road deaths as a result of drunk driving despite very harsh penalties. Human nature being what it is. Solving what are social issues requires the backing of society. In a culture that historically avoids acknowledging a myriad of social distortions legislation and announcements are as useful as a wet paper towel if not enforced consistantly and constantly. Without that even "name and shame" is reduced to " got away with it".

Thing is they're not actually doing anything. If people started to go to prison you wouldn't have to worry about so many people in prison. The thought of going to prison is enough to stop most people.

The morgue is not a bad idea. But it's simply not going to be effective on its own. The reasoning for many foreigners and Thais alike would be this "I'm a great driver. Even when I'm drunk I'm still safe. I wouldn't kill anyone because I'd be super careful." They would believe their fate to be in their hands.

As for the thought of losing your license & prison, fate is not in your hands. It's in the hands of the police who could at anytime pull you over.

It's the same with people who fear flying. Safest form of travelling but you are not in control. If plane crashes, we can't trick ourselves to believe we are in control. In a car we can.

Edited April 27, 2016 by rkidlad

[richard_smith237]

No I don't worry about people who make the decision for themselves. They took the risk, up to them.

I do nag my house cleaner and girlfriend to wear their helmets in Pattaya and Chonburi on busy dangerous roads. But upcountry, riding 300 meters up a quiet soi at little over walking speed. Nah.

Am I going to tell other Thais that they should be wearing a helmet? Nah.

I don't wear one myself in small sois for small trips.

Nice to hear your brother made the right decision that day and if I had a ten year I would make her wear a bicycle helmet.

But as a kid, I never wore one, rode push bikes everyday, bmx craze began, building ramps/jumps, racing each other, etc etc. Big groups, no one wearing helmets, no one died. Fun times. I don't even know if bike helmets even existed then? It just wasn't a consideration.

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

The outstanding issue with not wearing helmets on Motorbikes is that many have failed to think for themselves. They don't consider the risks to themselves, the potential pain and hurt to loved ones and the lifelong mental scarring of those with whom they have an accident.

The issue is when someone fails to wear a helmet the consequences reach far beyond themselves if involved in an accident.

IF a motorcyclist were to pull out in front of me and died, it may be 100% the motorcyclists fault, but I'd feel absolutely terrible, being involved in a death is not something the average compassionate human being than throw easily regardless of how strong you may feel when sat at a keyboard.

Thus: I believe the decision not to wear a helmet is either one of pure ignorance or a purely selfish decision. The same goes for not wearing a seatbelt in a car.

----------

As a kid you never wore a helmet etc and you are fine - of course, everyone can say / write the same thing... everyone still alive that is, for those who died or became severely injured as a result of not wearing a bicycle helmet they are unable to comment - Your "I did it / didn't do it and I'm OK" argument is fundamentally flawed.

----------

The world has become inherently safer, not because of the nanny-state as so many like to complain about, but because of research, because of statistics, because of technological development all in response to the direct evidence that people generally don't think for themselves and thus regulations are created to protect people from themselves, or rather protect people from other ignorant, selfish and stupid people....

----------

Quote: The Martyrdom of Man

"while the individual man is an insoluble puzzle, in the aggregate he becomes a mathematical certainty. You can, for example, never foretell what any one man will do, but you can say with precision what an average number will be up to. Individuals vary, but percentages remain constant. So says the statistician"

It is those 'percentages' that can be improved upon, road deaths can be improved upon by dealing with the Aggregate at a national level.

It is therefor socially irresponsible to ignore the statistics and suggest that the rules don't apply to you because its hot, or that you can apply your own individual rules when in-fact what you are doing along with others like you is adding to the terrible and tragic consequences of road traffic accidents.

This is a cultural issue (which is also multicultural), until people like you can recognise the need to always wear the helmet there will always be avoidable deaths - you are actually part of the problem and use your dislike of the 'nanny-state' as a flawed excuse to avoid social responsibility.

-------------

Of course - this thread is about drink driving / drink riding, which is a far far more serious issue than not wearing a helmet or a seatbelt: However, the principles discussed above remain...

This needs to be dealt with on a cultural level - taking a few people to the morgue in a publicity stunt won't cut it. Again, the 'aggregate' at a national level needs to be dealt with.

This means stringent and consistent enforcement which drives the ideology home at a cultural level that drink driving / riding is socially irresponsible.

We should be at a stage whereby people are looking at others who a drink drive and think of them as idiots, a stage where people who drink drive are socially ridiculed for their stupidity and lack of intelligence.

In short, much much much more can be done - visiting the morgue is a publicity stunt - An idea in the right direction, but sadly a half measure.

Edited April 27, 2016 by richard_smith237

[Bob12345]

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

While I agree with you that kids play around outdoors less these days and that bike-helmet laws are relatively new, I do have extremely strong doubts that there is any significant causality between these two things. Kids nowadays sit indoors with a game console because they like that better and not because they don't want to wear a helmet when riding a bike outside.

And you are right that you are not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet, but please also don't risk my insurance premiums by having an insurance policy or wasting my tax money by going to the hospital when you do have an accident. If you crash your motorbike, it is your own fault so please stay nicely on the ground, preferably not blocking traffic, refusing to get an ambulance called. Good luck operating on yourself and stopping the bleeding while dying on the side of the road.

[Nobb]

Originally i thought they had to work in the morgue. As usual the so called law enforcement was not doing what they stated before the holidays. You will never stop the drunks from driving as long as you let them of with little or no punishment. Did they fine the drunk drivers and impound there cars for 30 days? Why has those question answers been so hushed up?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Nobb

[Dumbastheycome]

God, this is painful.

Stop wearing kiddy gloves and punish them accordingly. Stop with taking people's cars away for the night or showing them dead bodies. Take away their licenses, heavy fines and inprisonment if warranted.

Stop acting like kids. If you really wanna add to the punishment, have a name and shame section in newspapers, etc. Have a pic of convicted driver saying "I'm a selfish moron who endangers other's lives"

Sadly the problem is more complex than such actions would prevent much. In the case of drunk drivers even if those who actually have one were to have it taken away would still drive. And often in a vehicle that is not their own. If any really effective blitz on drunk drivers were to be carried out the sheer numbers would clog the courts and there would be standing room only in prisons. Community programs with mandatory shock tactics such as morgue visits might at least instill a little more reality than the resentment of a prison sentence. Fines are pointless because they rarely get paid. Even countries with zero alchol limits on drivers still have road deaths as a result of drunk driving despite very harsh penalties. Human nature being what it is. Solving what are social issues requires the backing of society. In a culture that historically avoids acknowledging a myriad of social distortions legislation and announcements are as useful as a wet paper towel if not enforced consistantly and constantly. Without that even "name and shame" is reduced to " got away with it".

Thing is they're not actually doing anything. If people started to go to prison you wouldn't have to worry about so many people in prison. The thought of going to prison is enough to stop most people.

The morgue is not a bad idea. But it's simply not going to be effective on its own. The reasoning for many foreigners and Thais alike would be this "I'm a great driver. Even when I'm drunk I'm still safe. I wouldn't kill anyone because I'd be super careful." They would believe their fate to be in their hands.

As for the thought of losing your license & prison, fate is not in your hands. It's in the hands of the police who could at anytime pull you over.

It's the same with people who fear flying. Safest form of travelling but you are not in control. If plane crashes, we can't trick ourselves to believe we are in control. In a car we can.

It is the lack of effective consistant and routine enforcement ..... ad hoc campaigns are not nothing but have no effect long term.

[Bob12345]

It is the lack of effective consistant and routine enforcement ..... ad hoc campaigns are not nothing but have no effect long term.

Exactly.

Everyone who has raised a kid or a dog knows that harsher punishments do not give better results; it is consistency.

You can punish a kid/dog severely when it doesnt do what you ask, but if you do that only a few days a year you wont weed out the bad behavior (it will just try harder to keep it hidden from you).

If you punish it every single time it does something you do not like, you can punish much lighter and have much better results.

[Roomuck]

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

While I agree with you that kids play around outdoors less these days and that bike-helmet laws are relatively new, I do have extremely strong doubts that there is any significant causality between these two things. Kids nowadays sit indoors with a game console because they like that better and not because they don't want to wear a helmet when riding a bike outside.

And you are right that you are not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet, but please also don't risk my insurance premiums by having an insurance policy or wasting my tax money by going to the hospital when you do have an accident. If you crash your motorbike, it is your own fault so please stay nicely on the ground, preferably not blocking traffic, refusing to get an ambulance called. Good luck operating on yourself and stopping the bleeding while dying on the side of the road.

No worries mate, I don't mind paying my own way, I always do. I won't operate on myself, just pay someone to do it, like everything else in life. Don't expect the nanny state to take care of me. Don't want them to.

If I crash my bike, it won't be caused by not wearing a helmet.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

[slippery snake]

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

While I agree with you that kids play around outdoors less these days and that bike-helmet laws are relatively new, I do have extremely strong doubts that there is any significant causality between these two things. Kids nowadays sit indoors with a game console because they like that better and not because they don't want to wear a helmet when riding a bike outside.

And you are right that you are not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet, but please also don't risk my insurance premiums by having an insurance policy or wasting my tax money by going to the hospital when you do have an accident. If you crash your motorbike, it is your own fault so please stay nicely on the ground, preferably not blocking traffic, refusing to get an ambulance called. Good luck operating on yourself and stopping the bleeding while dying on the side of the road.

No worries mate, I don't mind paying my own way, I always do. I won't operate on myself, just pay someone to do it, like everything else in life. Don't expect the nanny state to take care of me. Don't want them to.

If I crash my bike, it won't be caused by not wearing a helmet.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Well if you do happen to have a bad motorbike crash without a helmet,

You won't need an operation, probably need the morgue and a funeral.

Hope someone has access to your money , as 'you' won't be able to pay for that...

[siamcrut]

won't change a thing.

wait and see Songkran 2017

[Roomuck]

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

While I agree with you that kids play around outdoors less these days and that bike-helmet laws are relatively new, I do have extremely strong doubts that there is any significant causality between these two things. Kids nowadays sit indoors with a game console because they like that better and not because they don't want to wear a helmet when riding a bike outside.

And you are right that you are not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet, but please also don't risk my insurance premiums by having an insurance policy or wasting my tax money by going to the hospital when you do have an accident. If you crash your motorbike, it is your own fault so please stay nicely on the ground, preferably not blocking traffic, refusing to get an ambulance called. Good luck operating on yourself and stopping the bleeding while dying on the side of the road.

No worries mate, I don't mind paying my own way, I always do. I won't operate on myself, just pay someone to do it, like everything else in life. Don't expect the nanny state to take care of me. Don't want them to.

If I crash my bike, it won't be caused by not wearing a helmet.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Well if you do happen to have a bad motorbike crash without a helmet,

You won't need an operation, probably need the morgue and a funeral.

Hope someone has access to your money , as 'you' won't be able to pay for that...

Or I could die from stress and worry. About stuff that will never happen to me.

I am sure my estate will be able to cover the funeral expenses.

[Bob12345]

Now in the nanny state you don't see kids riding around like we did, playing footy and cricket in the street, living, it is less social now because everyone is obsessed with the imagined dangers. It is slightly safer but it was more fun before. Thailand is still fun.

After doing all those stunts and surviving I think I am capable of riding slowly 300 meters up a quiet road without a helmet. But if I do have a freak accident with a pole or a rock and die, it is my own fault. I am not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet. Up to me.

"You think too much"

While I agree with you that kids play around outdoors less these days and that bike-helmet laws are relatively new, I do have extremely strong doubts that there is any significant causality between these two things. Kids nowadays sit indoors with a game console because they like that better and not because they don't want to wear a helmet when riding a bike outside.

And you are right that you are not risking someone else's life by not wearing a helmet, but please also don't risk my insurance premiums by having an insurance policy or wasting my tax money by going to the hospital when you do have an accident. If you crash your motorbike, it is your own fault so please stay nicely on the ground, preferably not blocking traffic, refusing to get an ambulance called. Good luck operating on yourself and stopping the bleeding while dying on the side of the road.

No worries mate, I don't mind paying my own way, I always do. I won't operate on myself, just pay someone to do it, like everything else in life. Don't expect the nanny state to take care of me. Don't want them to.

If I crash my bike, it won't be caused by not wearing a helmet.

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Thats what everybody says as long as they are healthy.

[mankondang]

I must have missed it. When were all these drivers charged? Is this their punishment? Were licenses revoked? Are they banned from diving public transport?

Yes, you missed it.