New Visa Rules May Do More Harm Than Good

[sriracha john]

New visa rules may do more harm than good

On October 1 the Kingdom of Thailand introduced a new visa policy to restrict the number of times a foreigner can enter the country during a certain period of time.

The policy states that one can only stay in Thailand for 90 days in a period of six months, after which one must leave the country and stay outside for another 90 days before they can re-enter.

The rationale behind the policy as conveyed to the public is to screen the movement of foreigners in the country - who is coming and going, for how long, and with what frequency. And it is also "to clean house", as the Kingdom has unfortunately had some ill-mannered foreigners entering the country to engage in illicit business, human trafficking, paedophilia, child pornography and so on. In addition, this policy is to be stricter on the people who are working in Thailand without a work permit and living in Thailand without permanent residency, but by simply doing visa runs.

Prior to the October 1 change, visas on arrival were granted to 49 different nationalities to stay in the country for 15 or 30 days, depending on the permission given during the arrival immigration process. The visa could be renewed and extended by doing a "visa run" - crossing one of the borders of Thailand into Burma, Cambodia, Laos or Malaysia, the most popular and cost-effective destinations. Every day one can witness several dozen foreigners who stay or work in Thailand for numerous reasons doing their visa runs to one of the borders.

No doubt this policy is intended to create a cleaner and safer Thailand by keeping sociopaths and criminals out of the Kingdom. However, whether or not this policy has been well thought through is uncertain. A reality check needs to be done on the flip side of Thailand's attempt to clean up house.

There are many non-governmental organisations, humanitarian organisations and research institutes that are positive for Thailand and the region as they are here to provide humanitarian assistance to refugees from Burma, do research on environmental, social, and economic issues, and to support local human-rights groups and people's movements with their expertise and know-how. The staff of these agencies often do not have a proper work permit as some of them are in Thailand on a voluntary basis. They continue to be able to stay in Thailand by renewing their visa every month through a visa run.

In reality, these organisations do not have the capacity to provide work permits to their staff. In order to be able to provide a work permit, organisations must be registered in Thailand and this is almost impossible for some, as it needs a Thai association to back the foreign organisations as a legal entity in the country. Some of the organisations do not register for cost reasons, because the registration fees for the organisation are expensive and the annual work-permit fees are not affordable since the organisations' operations rely totally on external funding. These non-Thai human-rights activists and environmental advocates will be negatively affected by this new visa policy and consequently the spillover effect will be on the country's human development and environment.

Gone are the days when foreign independent researchers or humanitarian workers could cross into Laos every month for a visa extension and return to Thailand to continue to work for a just cause. They will now have to remain out of the country at least three months before they can return because they are affected by the "cleaning house" policy.

Based on news reports of the arrest of foreign criminals, the targeted group for the new visa restrictions, sociopaths and criminals are known to be short-term visitors who just come and go. Some of them are reputed to be part of the criminal syndicates whose networks extend across Asia. While their mobility would be somewhat affected by this policy, during the three-month period that they have to stay out of Thailand, they could stay and conduct illicit activities in a country like Cambodia, which is another hub for child prostitution and human trafficking. One wonders if Thailand can keep these people out with this new policy.

This well-intended policy needs further analysis of its impact. It is premature to draw the conclusion that this policy serves the best interests of Thailand by keeping the criminals out, rather than adversely affecting those who work in Thailand for a positive cause.

Valentina Soe

Special to The Nation

The writer is an expat and a human-rights advocate who has been living in Thailand for more than six years. She has extensive experience with foreign workers in Thailand, many of whom are affected by the change in visa policy.

[britmaveric]

Ahh the NGO(s) are feeling the heat now? Interesting.....

Edited November 6, 2006 by britmaveric

[JR Texas]

Ahh the NGO(s) are feeling the heat now? Interesting.....

JR Texas (51, USA): These new rules are, in my view, doing far more harm than good. I also think that they are not primarily designed to address foreign crime and are significantly related to a xenophobic reaction by the Thaksin govt. (yes, he is gone, but these are his policies) towards foreigners--particular those that are not rich. NGOs are being negatively impacted. Foreign teachers of English are being negatively impacted. The foreigners who bought 3 million baht condos because they thought they would get an investment visa are being negatively impacted (no more investment visa). Foreign males over 50 who are about to get married to a Thai woman are being negatively impacted because they can no longer put 400K in the bank and get a long term visa (that option is gone and is one of the worst changes). All those in the loop who were making lots of money off of the visa run industry are being negatively impacted (and many of these people are current or former police officers). The "uncertainty" that all of this is creating is negatively impacting the decision-making of potential foreign investors. And many who have already invested in the Thailand are selling their businesses and leaving (simply had enough of the BS to last a lifetime). A major assumption that needs to be addressed is whether this is actually about crime. Other threads have attempted to address this issue. If it is about crime, these types of changes to the visa rules will not reduce crime. If anything, they will lead to an increase in crime by compelling more people to enter Thailand illegally and work in the Kingdom illegally. And the business climate that follows from these rule changes will cause more damage to the economy, especially in the countryside where development and job creation are most needed. This declining economic situation will cause more stress related crime. One proven way to address crime is to do police work (not simply trying to use computers at check points to catch criminals). Another way is to improve the economy and create quality jobs. I think it is very important to put the crime issue into perspective. If this is about crime, lets see the statistics. How many crimes were committed in Thailand over the last 5 years? How many crimes were committed by foreigners? How many serious crimes were committed by foreigners (this last one is important because most "crimes"will come under the category of Burmese, Laotian, and Cambodian workers working and entering Thailand illegally...non-serious crimes). Does anyone have this information? I have not been able to get it over the internet. My guess is that the percent of serious crime committed by foreigners in Thailand is much less than 1%. If so, this is a non-issue. Of course, serious crimes are committed by foreigners (just today a Frenchman admitted to killing his Thai girlfriend). But these crimes must be put into perspective. The mainstream mass media and Immigration Dept. would have us believe that foreigners are running amok in Thailand committing serious crimes. I just do not think that is the case. Maybe I am wrong. For the record, I have lived many years in Thailand. I live in the countryside and see with my own eyes how the vast majority of Thai people have to live. Most of the people I am around could never in their wildest dreams even think about shopping at the Paragon in Bangkok. Some have not even been to Bangkok. Many live in tin shacks in poverty. Many are only making it because one of the "non-quality farangs" is helping them to survive (and these people are being pushed out by the new rules). The people I am around are fortunate to make 4-5000 baht per month (and farangs are supposed to make 40K-65K). These people need help. NGOs are necessary. Foreign investment is necessary........these rules will not help the majority of Thais in any way and will only hurt them. I am in China now, but part of my heart will always be in Thailand. If things improve, I plan on returning to Thailand. I can only hope that the new administration will rethink these new policy changes and do what is best for Thailand.

Best wishes,

JR

[Meerkat]

I think it's dangerous of her to write a letter which basically says "NGOs have been operating illegally and are thus affected by new visa rules designed in part to stop illegal workers."

As much as we all know that these NGOs do some excellent work in Thailand, there are existing provisions in the law to cater for them. To bring to the attention of the powers that be in such a public forum as The Nation that some of them have not been following the law, is IMHO seriously misguided.

[sbk]

JR, just a hint to make your post more readable, paragraphs break up the monotony of so much text on the screen.

[sriracha john]

Ahh the NGO(s) are feeling the heat now? Interesting.....

JR Texas (51, USA):

These new rules are, in my view, doing far more harm than good.

I also think that they are not primarily designed to address foreign crime and are significantly related to a xenophobic reaction by the Thaksin govt. (yes, he is gone, but these are his policies) towards foreigners--particular those that are not rich.

NGOs are being negatively impacted. Foreign teachers of English are being negatively impacted. The foreigners who bought 3 million baht condos because they thought they would get an investment visa are being negatively impacted (no more investment visa). Foreign males over 50 who are about to get married to a Thai woman are being negatively impacted because they can no longer put 400K in the bank and get a long term visa (that option is gone and is one of the worst changes). All those in the loop who were making lots of money off of the visa run industry are being negatively impacted (and many of these people are current or former police officers).

The "uncertainty" that all of this is creating is negatively impacting the decision-making of potential foreign investors. And many who have already invested in the Thailand are selling their businesses and leaving (simply had enough of the BS to last a lifetime).

A major assumption that needs to be addressed is whether this is actually about crime. Other threads have attempted to address this issue. If it is about crime, these types of changes to the visa rules will not reduce crime. If anything, they will lead to an increase in crime by compelling more people to enter Thailand illegally and work in the Kingdom illegally.

And the business climate that follows from these rule changes will cause more damage to the economy, especially in the countryside where development and job creation are most needed.

This declining economic situation will cause more stress related crime.

One proven way to address crime is to do police work (not simply trying to use computers at check points to catch criminals). Another way is to improve the economy and create quality jobs.

I think it is very important to put the crime issue into perspective. If this is about crime, lets see the statistics. How many crimes were committed in Thailand over the last 5 years? How many crimes were committed by foreigners? How many serious crimes were committed by foreigners (this last one is important because most "crimes"will come under the category of Burmese, Laotian, and Cambodian workers working and entering Thailand illegally...non-serious crimes). Does anyone have this information? I have not been able to get it over the internet. My guess is that the percent of serious crime committed by foreigners in Thailand is much less than 1%. If so, this is a non-issue. Of course, serious crimes are committed by foreigners (just today a Frenchman admitted to killing his Thai girlfriend). But these crimes must be put into perspective.

The mainstream mass media and Immigration Dept. would have us believe that foreigners are running amok in Thailand committing serious crimes. I just do not think that is the case. Maybe I am wrong.

For the record, I have lived many years in Thailand. I live in the countryside and see with my own eyes how the vast majority of Thai people have to live. Most of the people I am around could never in their wildest dreams even think about shopping at the Paragon in Bangkok. Some have not even been to Bangkok. Many live in tin shacks in poverty. Many are only making it because one of the "non-quality farangs" is helping them to survive (and these people are being pushed out by the new rules). The people I am around are fortunate to make 4-5000 baht per month (and farangs are supposed to make 40K-65K). These people need help.

NGOs are necessary. Foreign investment is necessary........these rules will not help the majority of Thais in any way and will only hurt them.

I am in China now, but part of my heart will always be in Thailand. If things improve, I plan on returning to Thailand.

I can only hope that the new administration will rethink these new policy changes and do what is best for Thailand.

Best wishes,

JR

Please allow me the latitude to hopefully help out with the structure of this excellent post.

Much appreciative of the time and thought invested in constructing a very well done effort.

[Nam Kao]

Nana will suffer if no NGO's

[JR Texas]

Ahh the NGO(s) are feeling the heat now? Interesting.....

JR Texas (51, USA):

These new rules are, in my view, doing far more harm than good.

I also think that they are not primarily designed to address foreign crime and are significantly related to a xenophobic reaction by the Thaksin govt. (yes, he is gone, but these are his policies) towards foreigners--particular those that are not rich.

NGOs are being negatively impacted. Foreign teachers of English are being negatively impacted. The foreigners who bought 3 million baht condos because they thought they would get an investment visa are being negatively impacted (no more investment visa). Foreign males over 50 who are about to get married to a Thai woman are being negatively impacted because they can no longer put 400K in the bank and get a long term visa (that option is gone and is one of the worst changes). All those in the loop who were making lots of money off of the visa run industry are being negatively impacted (and many of these people are current or former police officers).

The "uncertainty" that all of this is creating is negatively impacting the decision-making of potential foreign investors. And many who have already invested in the Thailand are selling their businesses and leaving (simply had enough of the BS to last a lifetime).

A major assumption that needs to be addressed is whether this is actually about crime. Other threads have attempted to address this issue. If it is about crime, these types of changes to the visa rules will not reduce crime. If anything, they will lead to an increase in crime by compelling more people to enter Thailand illegally and work in the Kingdom illegally.

And the business climate that follows from these rule changes will cause more damage to the economy, especially in the countryside where development and job creation are most needed.

This declining economic situation will cause more stress related crime.

One proven way to address crime is to do police work (not simply trying to use computers at check points to catch criminals). Another way is to improve the economy and create quality jobs.

I think it is very important to put the crime issue into perspective. If this is about crime, lets see the statistics. How many crimes were committed in Thailand over the last 5 years? How many crimes were committed by foreigners? How many serious crimes were committed by foreigners (this last one is important because most "crimes"will come under the category of Burmese, Laotian, and Cambodian workers working and entering Thailand illegally...non-serious crimes). Does anyone have this information? I have not been able to get it over the internet. My guess is that the percent of serious crime committed by foreigners in Thailand is much less than 1%. If so, this is a non-issue. Of course, serious crimes are committed by foreigners (just today a Frenchman admitted to killing his Thai girlfriend). But these crimes must be put into perspective.

The mainstream mass media and Immigration Dept. would have us believe that foreigners are running amok in Thailand committing serious crimes. I just do not think that is the case. Maybe I am wrong.

For the record, I have lived many years in Thailand. I live in the countryside and see with my own eyes how the vast majority of Thai people have to live. Most of the people I am around could never in their wildest dreams even think about shopping at the Paragon in Bangkok. Some have not even been to Bangkok. Many live in tin shacks in poverty. Many are only making it because one of the "non-quality farangs" is helping them to survive (and these people are being pushed out by the new rules). The people I am around are fortunate to make 4-5000 baht per month (and farangs are supposed to make 40K-65K). These people need help.

NGOs are necessary. Foreign investment is necessary........these rules will not help the majority of Thais in any way and will only hurt them.

I am in China now, but part of my heart will always be in Thailand. If things improve, I plan on returning to Thailand.

I can only hope that the new administration will rethink these new policy changes and do what is best for Thailand.

Best wishes,

JR

Please allow me the latitude to hopefully help out with the structure of this excellent post.

Much appreciative of the time and thought invested in constructing a very well done effort.

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Siricha John: Thank you very much for your comments and the much needed changes to what I wrote in haste.......reads much better now.

Best wishes,

JR

[Firefan]

JR; guess you meant "foreign males UNDER 50" as the ones over 50 can get the retirement visa.

As for investment visas and marriage visas at least the old rules were grandfathered in for the ones already holding these visas.

Cheers!

[kudroz]

I think the changes are going in the way of Thailand is modernizing their immigration and labour laws. I am expecting more changes to come, it's a lengthy process they've started.

30 Days Visa-Entry Stamp (Aggregated 90 days limit per 180 days)

I find it commendable for Thailand to stop the visa-run problem It is not in the spirit of the law for one person to live permanently or for an extended period in Thailand by border-hoping every 30 days. I am sure that this should slowly evolve by granting a 3 months Visa-Exempt entry for certain country nationals; and once people start respecting the spirit of the law, I am sure the restrictions of 90 days per 180 days will be replaced by discretion and good judgment exerted by border officials.

What do I mean by "the spirit of the law"?

Well, when the issuance of 30 Days Visa Exempt Stamps has to do with a growing number of people who don't want to go through the proper immigration process - with the intend of staying for extended period of time in Thailand - this is matter that does not respect the spirit of the law and that needs to be dealt with.

I.e. Nao, a Japan national, can stay for up to 90 days (visa exempt) in Canada for visiting his friend Cathy. During his stay in Canada, Nao falls in love with Cathy and wish to stay longer in Canada. Nao decides to cross the border every 90 days to stay with Cathy while he is working on his laptop doing freelance work for clients on the Internet. On his 2nd border-run, the border official grants him a shorter stay and tell Nao to apply for a long-term stay visa in Canada. This is what I mean by border officials exerting good judgment and discretion.

Nao was doing border-runs to avoid applying for a long-term stay visa because he didn't meet the requirements. Nao was using visa exempt stamps to aggregate a long-term stay to circumvent the spirit of the law. And to that problem, a Country can address with these 2 possible solutions:

- Excert discretion and good judgement at the border when Visa Exempt Stamps are granted

- Prohibit an aggregated stay of [x amount] of day using Visa Exempt Stamps.

The best solution (and the one that most first world countries are doing) is to exert good judgment and discretion at the border. But before Thailand can do the same, the percentage of people like Nao needs to be insignificant.

--

I could go on with every recent changes made to labour and immigration laws that were introduced, but it would go in the same drift of what I've said above.

[kudroz]

I think it is very important to put the crime issue into perspective. If this is about crime, lets see the statistics. How many crimes were committed in Thailand over the last 5 years? How many crimes were committed by foreigners?

I don't think any of these changes were made because of a "crime" issue nor to lessen crime rates. In my opinion these changes were made to prevent people from circumventing the Government policies.

If it is of the government opinion that Married Foreigner under 50 years of age cannot extend their stay for 1 year unless the couple have a monthly income of no less than THB 40,000 - it's their own prerogative (policies) and they want people to respect that. They do not want the Married Foreigner who do not meet the required monthly income to circumvent their policies and aggregate a long-term stay in Thailand using Visa-Exempt Stamps.

One could criticize their policies saying that it negatively impacts the economy and what not, but I think for the sake of everyone the Government should come forward and explain their Policies more clearly so everyone could better understand their long-term agenda.

[Pakboong]

It would be interesting to know how press releases are managed by the new government. I suspect they are gathered and fed information that is carefully sanitized and usually has a twist to it.

JR, sorry to disagree with you so often but the results you list are IMO those desired by the new government, not TRT. The new government adds a little more spice on pretty much a daily basis. They have not reversered anything and are not likely to.

Whatever power has been passed to the poor has to be minimized by government in order to restore the socio-economic balance in favor of the urban professional.

[PeaceBlondie]

The opening post seems to be the first time that NGO workers have been mentioned on ThaiVisa, regarding the visa changes. What has been the Thai government's policy, in recent years, toward foreign NGO workers? Don't many of them expose crime such as human trafficking, drug sales, and underage prostitution, in a way that makes Thailand look bad in the international press?

Knowing only a few things about how difficult it can be for teachers to be legal in Thailand, I'm not surprised or doubtful about the points made in the opening post.

[lapamita]

[quote name=firefan

for investment visas and marriage visas at least the old rules were grandfathered in for the ones already holding these visas

I NOT BELIVE IN GRANDFTHERD ANYMORE IN THAILAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was having 1 year investmentvisa until begining 2004,,based on old rules 3m baht on any bank.

taxsin introduced in 03/04 the 0% policy for foreigners ( remember???),,after renewing 2 years and hey said fooooooooorrr ever!!!

they told new regulations you must put money on govermentbank , sorry 0% at this time,,,,this visa was not possible because i live of bondincomming etc.

so far, grandfatherd is only until rules are changed!!!!!!!!!!!!

who belives any word here in thailand , have to learn a lot more about thailand

[kudroz]

Knowing only a few things about how difficult it can be for teachers to be legal in Thailand

But everything needs to be put in perspective, people who are coming from a foreign country to teach in schools are - of course - subject to requirements, permits and such.

It is the same everywhere else in the world, I could only imagine the requirements, permits and restrictions imposed on a UK national wanting to teach in Canada. Knowing that Thailand is an emerging country that was, until recently, classed as a third world country - the requirements for teaching in Thailand should be more lax than those of first world nations, but it is in Thailand's best interest to make certain changes to their policies.

Of course, many English teachers who are well qualified find themselves in a problem because the schools they are working for do not provide permits or are not supportive of the efforts taken by their teachers to obtain such permits. This is why the Government, after announcing the immigration changes - also committed to make it easier for schools to provide permits to Foreigners.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

JR; guess you meant "foreign males UNDER 50" as the ones over 50 can get the retirement visa.

As for investment visas and marriage visas at least the old rules were grandfathered in for the ones already holding these visas.

Cheers!

He is indeed somewhat light on facts for a man who went to so much effort to post.

[Phil Conners]

I think it's dangerous of her to write a letter which basically says "NGOs have been operating illegally and are thus affected by new visa rules designed in part to stop illegal workers."

As much as we all know that these NGOs do some excellent work in Thailand, there are existing provisions in the law to cater for them. To bring to the attention of the powers that be in such a public forum as The Nation that some of them have not been following the law, is IMHO seriously misguided.

I disagree. Better than stick your head in the sand and pretend there is no problem, let the authorities understand what kind of problem they are generating for themselves with their xenophobic attitude.

[TAWP]

And who cares about NGO's that work here illegally? I mean, they _could_ go legal if they wanted. So the goverments implementation of the new rules regarding tourist-VISAs seem to really hit home then.

[John K]

I was talking to someone Sunday and the numbers he came up with were there are about 1 million people in Thailand who will be effected. I thought that was a bit high but perhaps he knows more than most based on his position. I think the fact there was no mention in the Thai publications of the laws, (perhaps now I don’t know). I think you can go on and on and list things like people who want to retire early but as yet are too young for the proper visa. I know people who have Thai wives and work in the middle east. They are back every 45 to 60 days or so for a few weeks. They will not be able to come back home.

Bottom line Thailand is in for a big reality check in the next several weeks. Wanting teachers with 4 year degrees???, well dig deeper in your wallet if you want that, like twice as deep as now. I said in a post in another thread I would wait 100 days to see what is going on. At least the Nation has put this beyond this forum and has just sampled the tip of the iceberg.

The last possible people to stay under the 90 day rule will leave at the end of January. They would be the ones that did a visa run the end of September and the first of 3 the end of October.

The key to changing this is to pass the burden to the Thais. They have influence and not us. That is until they notice just how much is contributed to the economy by the people they sent packing. Even Stickman made note of one building who canceled 10 million in renovations because 30% of the tenants were forced to leave under this. I m sure we will hear more and more from Thais who will take a hit in the coming days and weeks. The one question is how bad will the Thais let it get in the name of saving face before they act?

[Mentors]

why Thailand not give one year visa to foreigners which are married to thai national and living together for more as 3 or 5 years for example. This would be fair and same rules works in many European countrys. (incl. Malaysia)

Edited November 7, 2006 by Mentors

[TAWP]

why Thailand not give one year visa to foreigners which are married to thai national and living together for more as 3 or 5 years for example.

Yes, they do.

[JR Texas]

why Thailand not give one year visa to foreigners which are married to thai national and living together for more as 3 or 5 years for example.

Yes, they do.

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Firefan/Dr. Pat Pong:

Thanks for your responses and feel free to correct me (still trying to make sense out of all of it). I was under the impression that prior to these changes a foreign male (at least age 50) maried to a Thai woman could secure a long term visa solution by putting 400K in a Thai bank. That is no longer an option. If I am wrong, I apologize.

I was also under the impression that the investment visa rules were not grandfathered....meaning some people were encouraged to pay for expensive condos thinking they would get a long term visa solution and then, after the changes, did not. If I am wrong on this one too, please accept my apology.

About grandfathered rules: They can change that rule any time they decide to do so. And when they do......look out!

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to Pakboong: We can agree to disagree. I can't prove it, but it seems likely (given the timing) that these rule changes were set in motion prior to Thaksin being removed from power. If so, they are relics of his administration.

[libya 115]

I think you can go on and on and list things like people who want to retire early but as yet are too young for the proper visa. I know people who have Thai wives and work in the middle east. They are back every 45 to 60 days or so for a few weeks. They will not be able to come back home.

Surely, I am right in saying that people who want to retire early, can apply in their home country for a one year multiple entry O visa.

Also, oil workers could apply in their country of work for a tourist visa. I did it once in Muscat, Oman and got a double entry tourist visa.

The calculations of people being in deep water at the end of January, would only apply to those who persist in border visa runs.

I expect by now, many single tourist visa applications are submitted on a daily basis in KL or Penang.

In Pattaya there is one visa-run company offering a package of Malaysia and Land visa runs for 18,500 baht to guarantee long-stayers 6 months.

To many, it will be just an inconvenience. In what situation would someone absolutely have to stay out of the Kingdom for 90 days? Only someone who refuses to leave the country and obtain a tourist visa!

[lopburi3]

JR, you are wrong on the investment visa as it was grandfathered and there were even last minute approvals. The only extension of stay for marriage (for a male) was support Thai wife and required 400k yearly on deposit to prove ability to pay for support (or his monthly income of 40k). The new rule allows wife to provide or a combination of both incomes (as is the norm here - most middle class or above have both working). If age 50 or above they also have the option of retirement extension with 800k bank or 65k pension or combination.

As for "encouraged" to buy condo statement do not believe it is based on fact. Immigration kept this program very low key in my view. Although this may not have been the case with some foreign/connected developers.

[Mentors]

why Thailand not give one year visa to foreigners which are married to thai national and living together for more as 3 or 5 years for example.

Yes, they do.

if you are not 50 years and you don't made an extension before the 1st Oct. then the answer is NO

Edited November 7, 2006 by Mentors

[JR Texas]

JR, you are wrong on the investment visa as it was grandfathered and there were even last minute approvals. The only extension of stay for marriage (for a male) was support Thai wife and required 400k yearly on deposit to prove ability to pay for support (or his monthly income of 40k). The new rule allows wife to provide or a combination of both incomes (as is the norm here - most middle class or above have both working). If age 50 or above they also have the option of retirement extension with 800k bank or 65k pension or combination.

As for "encouraged" to buy condo statement do not believe it is based on fact. Immigration kept this program very low key in my view. Although this may not have been the case with some foreign/connected developers.

JR Texas (51, USA, wrong): Reply to Lopburi3: Thanks for correcting me. You seem to know the rules and regulations backwards and forwards. But let me give you a plausible scenario: 1) before the changes an investor purchases several condos worth well over 3 million with the desire to sell them later on; 2) one of the major reasons he purchased the condos was that he was under the impression that he could use the 3-million baht investment rule (spend it and get a long term visa solution) as a selling point to potential condo buyers; 3) then the rules changed and he can't use the "investor visa" as a selling point. Not good from an investors point of view. The basic question remains: Is this change good for Thailand? My answer is no.....especially for new investors. And I do not think this change has anything to do with crime.

On removing the 400K in the bank visa option: How can this positively impact Thailand? I think that for most expats (those living here now or those that are thinking about living here) it is probably more difficult to find a way to earn the 40K per month than it is to put 400K in the bank. I do not think this change is good for Thailand. And I do not think it has anything to do with crime.

Best wishes,

JR

[TAWP]

why Thailand not give one year visa to foreigners which are married to thai national and living together for more as 3 or 5 years for example.

Yes, they do.

if you are not 50 years and you don't made an extension before the 1st Oct. then the answer is NO

What on earth are you going on about?

I'm 28, married with kid on the way, I have 1 year-VISA and we have been living together for 3.5years.

Did I just prove you wrong?

[the pleiadian]

Myanmar, Cambo, Laos, Vietnam, ect all have some sort of long term volunteer visa for NGO workers. These countries really appreciate the work NGO guys do. There are also lots of NGO people that are sacrifying their times and money in Thailand taking care of kids with AIDS, helping people of poverty all over Thailand, and also political NGO's also observe the human rights, and it's violations in Thailand. These people are really the patrant saints of Thailand.

But Thailand government do not in any way give out NGO/volunteer visa at all. Actually on the contrary, the government has always dislike NGO in thier country and has always threaten them with detaintion and deportation. There was an article by Human Right Watch sometimes ago, that says Thai government hates the NGO because they think these guys bring bad publicity of their country to the world, and show the world the nasty problems in Thailand, and also reveal Thais' inability to solve their own problem. And also thai authority abhor the most the human rights NGO in their country. These the main reasons Thais authority do not issue such thing as NGO volunteer visa to any international NGO organizations.

I also remember when the Phuket tsunami hit, there were lots of foriegners sacrified their time and money to help the dead and help rebiulding the hard hit areas, but again the Thai government showed absolutely no appreciation for their sacrifice, detained and threaten many volunteers with illegal working, rediculously demanding them with working permit that does not exit in this field of work in their governance in the first place.

All Thai government worrys is not to help all the people in need in their own country, but only worrys their country's shameful problems and situations will be known to the outside world, by treating all NGO guys as enemy of the state.

[JR Texas]

Myanmar, Cambo, Laos, Vietnam, ect all have some sort of long term volunteer visa for NGO workers. These countries really appreciate the work NGO guys do. There are also lots of NGO people that are sacrifying their times and money in Thailand taking care of kids with AIDS, helping people of poverty all over Thailand, and also political NGO's also observe the human rights, and it's violations in Thailand. These people are really the patrant saints of Thailand.

But Thailand government do not in any way give out NGO/volunteer visa at all. Actually on the contrary, the government has always dislike NGO in thier country and has always threaten them with detaintion and deportation. There was an article by Human Right Watch sometimes ago, that says Thai government hates the NGO because they think these guys bring bad publicity of their country to the world, and show the world the nasty problems in Thailand, and also reveal Thais' inability to solve their own problem. And also thai authority abhor the most the human rights NGO in their country. These the main reasons Thais authority do not issue such thing as NGO volunteer visa to any international NGO organizations.

I also remember when the Phuket tsunami hit, there were lots of foriegners sacrified their time and money to help the dead and help rebiulding the hard hit areas, but again the Thai government showed absolutely no appreciation for their sacrifice, detained and threaten many volunteers with illegal working, rediculously demanding them with working permit that does not exit in this field of work in their governance in the first place.

All Thai government worrys is not to help all the people in need in their own country, but only worrys their country's shameful problems and situations will be known to the outside world, by treating all NGO guys as enemy of the state.

JR Texas (51, USA): Reply to The Pleiadian: Thank you for that.......what you said is right on target.

[helicoptor]

no sooner do you (think) you have your head around the latest regulation, they introduce a new one that contradicts the previous