Question about visa and work permit situation for a teacher

[football79]

Hello,

Some help with my situation would be much appreciated. Hopefully Ubonjoe and his wrath of knowledge will be able to chime in. Thanks in advance!

I'll try to be brief.

-Currently teaching at a private school legally for the last 7 years and still currently employed with non-b visa extension and work permit.

-Work permit/1 year visa extension expires on July 11th and due to changing requirements will be unable to renew without a university degree. I will not work without a valid visa and work permit.

-School has suggested I cancel the work permit in July, leave the country to get a new Non-B visa and continue teaching with the understanding that I can legally work for 3 months before getting a work permit. Before the 3 months expire (the current teaching term will be over end of September anyway) I will leave the country again and apply for a tourist visa to re-enter the country to look for work somewhere where I don't require a degree. ie. language center.

I do have long term plans with my Thai girlfriend to marry and remain on a non-o visa for the future so I do not want to risk having a problem with immigration going forward. So my biggest question is: When I leave the country at the end of September will immigration ask to see a cancelled work permit confirmation which of course I will not have making problems for myself in the future? And secondly, will I even be able to get a non-b visa to teach given that I have no degree? Will a Thai consulate in Penang ask to see a degree and transcripts? Does anyone foresee any other issues or problems I may come across in the future? I would like to continue to work until the end of term if possible but not at the expense of future problems.

Thanks so much for the help!

[johnatong]

Sorry but you are misinformed !

It is not possible to work legally without a WP for one day never mind three months !

Whether get another "B" visa will depend on the job a degree is not a pre requisite for a visa.

[football79]

Sorry but you are misinformed !

It is not possible to work legally without a WP for one day never mind three months !

Whether get another "B" visa will depend on the job a degree is not a pre requisite for a visa.

Working without a work permit for even one day is illegal was my understanding as well although it is common practice for teachers to work while permits are being applied for. I am more concerned about the questions at the bottom of my original post. Thanks for your reply. More info on best course of action would be appreciated.

[richardt1808]

I have a different view to the first response. You are permitted to work while your Work Permit application is being processed.

I recently had a vaguely similar situation. My current work permit was valid until July, but due to not receiving my new passport in time, my extension of stay expired along with the validity of the old passport; so after a long discussion with a senior official at immigration, I was advised that I had to physically leave the country before the expiry of the old passport because extensions cannot be transferred to a temporary travel document. So, I had to fly out and wait a week for the new passport to arrive, and then get a new NonB in the new passport before returning to Thailand, which, they explained, would also require a completely new work permit. So we then had to do a fresh WP application which was duly done last week and I am now waiting for the new WP to be processed.

Thus, in theory by returning on a fresh NonB, you would be doing something similar and as long as your school is happy to support a fresh WP application, you should be fine (ie you would be working while your new WP application is being finalised).

[ubonjoe]

As said a 90 day non-b visa does not allow you to work without a work permit.

I would think if the school wanted you to stay until the end of the term they could work out someway to get you a 3 month extension of your work permit. It seems the problem you have is that you can no longer get a teacher's licence waiver. Maybe they could get one valid for three months or an exemption from the requirement.

Looking at the worki permit extension form there might be some other options. See: http://wp.doe.go.th/wp/images/form/Form_tt5.pdf

Not sure what Penang want to get the non-b visa for teaching since they do not show it on their requirements. Vientiane only asks for the following here: http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/upload/pdf/Visa/Non-B%20teacher.pdf

"Applicant must provide copies of documentation showing qualifications for teaching including but not limited to diplomas, certificates, letters verifying teaching experience, teaching credentials, educational background, resume, etc"

There is also a possibility if got the work permit extension you could get a 3 month extension at immigration.

[football79]

I have a different view to the first response. You are permitted to work while your Work Permit application is being processed.

I recently had a vaguely similar situation. My current work permit was valid until July, but due to not receiving my new passport in time, my extension of stay expired along with the validity of the old passport; so after a long discussion with a senior official at immigration, I was advised that I had to physically leave the country before the expiry of the old passport because extensions cannot be transferred to a temporary travel document. So, I had to fly out and wait a week for the new passport to arrive, and then get a new NonB in the new passport before returning to Thailand, which, they explained, would also require a completely new work permit. So we then had to do a fresh WP application which was duly done last week and I am now waiting for the new WP to be processed.

Thus, in theory by returning on a fresh NonB, you would be doing something similar and as long as your school is happy to support a fresh WP application, you should be fine (ie you would be working while your new WP application is being finalised).

My concern is that my school will not be applying for a new wp as I do not meet the requirements. I don't want immigration to ask about it when I leave in September to get a tourist visa in Penang

[football79]

As said a 90 day non-b visa does not allow you to work without a work permit.

I would think if the school wanted you to stay until the end of the term they could work out someway to get you a 3 month extension of your work permit. It seems the problem you have is that you can no longer get a teacher's licence waiver. Maybe they could get one valid for three months or an exemption from the requirement.

Looking at the worki permit extension form there might be some other options. See: http://wp.doe.go.th/wp/images/form/Form_tt5.pdf

Not sure what Penang want to get the non-b visa for teaching since they do not show it on their requirements. Vientiane only asks for the following here: http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/upload/pdf/Visa/Non-B%20teacher.pdf

"Applicant must provide copies of documentation showing qualifications for teaching including but not limited to diplomas, certificates, letters verifying teaching experience, teaching credentials, educational background, resume, etc"

There is also a possibility if got the work permit extension you could get a 3 month extension at immigration.

I would rather go to Penang instead of Vientiane given that I am located in the South. I think you are correct about the teacher's license waiver. I do not have teaching qualifications but I do have seven years experience at the school. Do you think it would be possible to get the wp extension here locally and then a visa extension at the immigration office here in the city?

[ubonjoe]

As said a 90 day non-b visa does not allow you to work without a work permit.

I would think if the school wanted you to stay until the end of the term they could work out someway to get you a 3 month extension of your work permit. It seems the problem you have is that you can no longer get a teacher's licence waiver. Maybe they could get one valid for three months or an exemption from the requirement.

Looking at the worki permit extension form there might be some other options. See: http://wp.doe.go.th/wp/images/form/Form_tt5.pdf

Not sure what Penang want to get the non-b visa for teaching since they do not show it on their requirements. Vientiane only asks for the following here: http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/upload/pdf/Visa/Non-B%20teacher.pdf

"Applicant must provide copies of documentation showing qualifications for teaching including but not limited to diplomas, certificates, letters verifying teaching experience, teaching credentials, educational background, resume, etc"

There is also a possibility if got the work permit extension you could get a 3 month extension at immigration.

I would rather go to Penang instead of Vientiane given that I am located in the South. I think you are correct about the teacher's license waiver. I do not have teaching qualifications but I do have seven years experience at the school. Do you think it would be possible to get the wp extension here locally and then a visa extension at the immigration office here in the city?

I was using Vientiane as an example since Penang does not show their requirements. You would have to check with them about it or one of the agents there.

If you got the work permit done the extension of stay could be done as long as you meet the other requirements.

[football79]

As said a 90 day non-b visa does not allow you to work without a work permit.

I would think if the school wanted you to stay until the end of the term they could work out someway to get you a 3 month extension of your work permit. It seems the problem you have is that you can no longer get a teacher's licence waiver. Maybe they could get one valid for three months or an exemption from the requirement.

Looking at the worki permit extension form there might be some other options. See: http://wp.doe.go.th/wp/images/form/Form_tt5.pdf

Not sure what Penang want to get the non-b visa for teaching since they do not show it on their requirements. Vientiane only asks for the following here: http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/upload/pdf/Visa/Non-B%20teacher.pdf

"Applicant must provide copies of documentation showing qualifications for teaching including but not limited to diplomas, certificates, letters verifying teaching experience, teaching credentials, educational background, resume, etc"

There is also a possibility if got the work permit extension you could get a 3 month extension at immigration.

I would rather go to Penang instead of Vientiane given that I am located in the South. I think you are correct about the teacher's license waiver. I do not have teaching qualifications but I do have seven years experience at the school. Do you think it would be possible to get the wp extension here locally and then a visa extension at the immigration office here in the city?

I was using Vientiane as an example since Penang does not show their requirements. You would have to check with them about it or one of the agents there.

If you got the work permit done the extension of stay could be done as long as you meet the other requirements.

Okay. I'll suggest it to the school and hopefully they give it a shot given they want to keep me at the school. Thanks very much for your help!

[lostinisaan]

-School has suggested I cancel the work permit in July, leave the country to get a new Non-B visa and continue teaching with the understanding that I can legally work for 3 months before getting a work permit. Before the 3 months expire (the current teaching term will be over end of September anyway) I will leave the country again and apply for a tourist visa to re-enter the country to look for work somewhere where I don't require a degree. ie. language center.

Such a suggestion from the school doesn't mean a lot, to be honest. Would the director send a special request to the TCT that they really need you to continue at their school, there are (would be) possible solutions, inducing being employed as a trainer, or similar. (depending on the local Immigration office and labor deportment of course)

Are you really sure that they want to keep you? It doesn't sound like that to me when reading your post, sorry. There are quite a few people employed as trainers with valid work permits and visas, believe me.

Please never underestimate Immigration. You've worked for 7 years at this school with a work permit, Immigration and labor department must know you well after such as long time) and then trying to cheat your way through (no offense to you, I completely understand your situation) could wake up sleeping dogs. Jealous colleagues/ enemies, etc...

You receive 90 days from a consulate, or embassy outside of Thailand to have the time to get your work permit sorted out thru Khurusapha. But would somebody show up for a check, you couldn't even say that you've applied for a provisional license/waiver. Just don't go that way.

Yes, we all know that doesn't happen often, but it could happen and your future plans together with your gf are gone. Why don't you go for a degree at a university from the Philippines, accredited by the TCT with an office in Bangkok?

I think you'll have to study for three, or four years, but once you've singed up for one, a confirmation/enrollment letter from this institution, plus your teaching experience will grant you another waiver.

Please do not try to continue working on a tourist visa, too many people have raped the system so badly and more and more changes will make it nearly impossible in the near future to fly under the radar, even when working at a language school.

I do have long term plans with my Thai girlfriend to marry and remain on a non-o visa for the future so I do not want to risk having a problem with immigration going forward. So my biggest question is: When I leave the country at the end of September will immigration ask to see a cancelled work permit confirmation which of course I will not have making problems for myself in the future? And secondly, will I even be able to get a non-b visa to teach given that I have no degree?

If all goes wrong and you'd be in a deportation cell, do you think that your gf will still be with you? No more support and love can easily go down the drain.

When you want to leave the country you must cancel your work permit before leaving, clear your tax and have a letter from school when your last day at work was. Try to avoid overstay and do not wake up sleeping dogs.

You won't get a Non- b visa without a degree. Please make up your mind and ask your school superiors if they'll keep you if you enroll in such a program.

Monthly installments of let's say 5 K are possible and your problem would be solved in a very fair and legal way. If you think that you are capable and willing to do such a degree, please feel free to page me and I can get you in touch with a nice woman from this university.

Best of luck from lower northeast.

Edited to add: You could go for a BA in education,

Edited May 18, 2016 by lostinisaan

[football79]

-School has suggested I cancel the work permit in July, leave the country to get a new Non-B visa and continue teaching with the understanding that I can legally work for 3 months before getting a work permit. Before the 3 months expire (the current teaching term will be over end of September anyway) I will leave the country again and apply for a tourist visa to re-enter the country to look for work somewhere where I don't require a degree. ie. language center.

Such a suggestion from the school doesn't mean a lot, to be honest. Would the director send a special request to the TCT that they really need you to continue at their school, there are (would be) possible solutions, inducing being employed as a trainer, or similar. (depending on the local Immigration office and labor deportment of course)

Are you really sure that they want to keep you? It doesn't sound like that to me when reading your post, sorry. There are quite a few people employed as trainers with valid work permits and visas, believe me.

Please never underestimate Immigration. You've worked for 7 years at this school with a work permit, Immigration and labor department must know you well after such as long time) and then trying to cheat your way through (no offense to you, I completely understand your situation) could wake up sleeping dogs. Jealous colleagues/ enemies, etc...

You receive 90 days from a consulate, or embassy outside of Thailand to have the time to get your work permit sorted out thru Khurusapha. But would somebody show up for a check, you couldn't even say that you've applied for a provisional license/waiver. Just don't go that way.

Yes, we all know that doesn't happen often, but it could happen and your future plans together with your gf are gone. Why don't you go for a degree at a university from the Philippines, accredited by the TCT with an office in Bangkok?

I think you'll have to study for three, or four years, but once you've singed up for one, a confirmation/enrollment letter from this institution, plus your teaching experience will grant you another waiver.

Please do not try to continue working on a tourist visa, too many people have raped the system so badly and more and more changes will make it nearly impossible in the near future to fly under the radar, even when working at a language school.

I do have long term plans with my Thai girlfriend to marry and remain on a non-o visa for the future so I do not want to risk having a problem with immigration going forward. So my biggest question is: When I leave the country at the end of September will immigration ask to see a cancelled work permit confirmation which of course I will not have making problems for myself in the future? And secondly, will I even be able to get a non-b visa to teach given that I have no degree?

If all goes wrong and you'd be in a deportation cell, do you think that your gf will still be with you? No more support and love can easily go down the drain.

When you want to leave the country you must cancel your work permit before leaving, clear your tax and have a letter from school when your last day at work was. Try to avoid overstay and do not wake up sleeping dogs.

You won't get a Non- b visa without a degree. Please make up your mind and ask your school superiors if they'll keep you if you enroll in such a program.

Monthly installments of let's say 5 K are possible and your problem would be solved in a very fair and legal way. If you think that you are capable and willing to do such a degree, please feel free to page me and I can get you in touch with a nice woman from this university.

Best of luck from lower northeast.

Edited to add: You could go for a BA in education,

Thanks so much for your detailed post. I'll try to respond as best I can but I am no good at multi-quoting, etc.

The original plan was for me and the school to go our seperate ways in July when my visa expires but they have since suggested this other option so that tells me they want to keep me. They have also said this repeatedly. I think the director would write a note for me to kruusappa if it was necessary. As to your "trainer" option, I have been employed as a trainer for the last few years but the local immigration office has just recently said we cannot hire "trainers or staff" anymore. Only qualified teachers will be approved. I also do not want to get the proper qualifications as it will take 3-4 years of studying as you mentioned and my girlfriend of over 8 years and I have other long term plans where I will not need to teach. s I also agree with you about not waking sleeping dogs weather they be co-workers or authority figures like immigration. I will not work without the proper visa and work permit. I have decided I will take Ubonjoe's suggestion above and try to get the school to apply for a work permit extension and a subsequent visa extension until the end of term. Thanks again for your very helpful and thoughtful post.