Lawyers appeal against death sentences over murder of British tourists in Thailand

[rockingrobin]

"I confirm that there was no abuse of any of the suspects," said lead investigater Maj Gen Suwat Chaengyodsook. "During interrogation, the suspects' lawyer was present and physical check-ups were performed on them. The results were sent to doctors for verification. The suspects confessed by themselves."

: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-police-defend-koh-tao-investigation-as-suspects-claim-torture-49042.php#sthash.yepPXJ7q.dpuf

http://www.phuketgazette.net/thailand-news/Koh-Tao-Murders-Myanmar-workers-say-colleagues/37115

Three men released alleged torture

[DiscoDan]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

[DiscoDan]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

You assume no prosecution persons lie under oath as Khun Han said you should educate yourself first.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

When challenged in court, Lt Col Nurod admitted that further discussion about the hair strand had indeed taken place, but he did not reveal exactly what was said.

Source: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

The denials and backtracks seemed a common trait throughout the whole episode

Evidence lost/used up / not lost everything available

Didnt examine cctv/ Yes we did

Didnt test the handle of the Hoe for dna / well actually we did and found Davids dna on the handle

No contact with the pathalogist after 3rd Oct / Yes I did, but im not telling you

Yes same with the defense

The labs were not ISO accredited (now not appealing this) turns out they are

They were on the beach till 1 then went back to sleep, no actually they went back down to the beach at 4am

The hoe was never tested for dna, they did actually test it

They only had 1 beer each no they also had a bottle of wine that was found at the crime scene

WP said he found the phone in a bar, then admitted he found it on the beach

WP & ZL did not see anyone on the beach MM yes there was a western couple.

DNA was impossible to test in 24hrs, lab has kits that can do tests in under 24 hours

Dna tested in under 24 hrs was mixed sample no it was Dna taken after there arrest.

[DM07]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

And I think, this is not about what "brings some comfort to those closest to him"!

This is a bout 2 people, who are IMHO, innocent of the crime and who are in danger of loosing their lives or spend the rest of their lives in jail!

The RTP -along with the Thai court- spoonfed these people lie after inconsistency after made up "evidence".

I'd rather stick with the Witheridge- statement, that is not at all jubilant about the outcome of the case.

This is not a feelgood- question!

[rockingrobin]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

[DJVillain]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

He can't help himself, The phrase Village idiot comes to mind!

Maybe not Village idiot but vested interests?

This...

All of this talk of the murderer still on the loose has probably hurt business...

Can't wait for it all to be brushed under the carpet so the young, drunk diving students come back and the good times roll again...

Until one of them decides to say 'no' to a spoilt rich brats advances...

[Sooo Upto Me]

More misinformation from greenchair that has been corrected heaven knows how many times already, but here we go again:

They were at the other end of the beach several hours before the crime, with a beach party that was never investigated going on much nearer the crime scene at the time of the crime scene.

The cigarette butts were at the other end of the beach, from when they were there earlier.

The confession was tortured out of them and later retracted when they received legal advice.

There is no "the wine bottle", just a wine bottle in photo. Did the police check the 7/11 till roll to see if the wine they bought was the same brand as the one in the photo? No.

The midnight swim that happened several hours before the crime.

The clothes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The shoes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The phone red herring saga that the police have lied about repeatedly.

And going for pathos over Hannah's tragic death, when your posts are helping to shield the real murderers!!! Ugh!!!! Utterly, utterly revolting!!!

Khun H twisting the truth again and seem to be getting more desperate in the process

Yes there is a wine bottle Maung Maung went back home to get it as the B2 wanted to stay and drink more, then after he went to see his g/f (I can post the link if you want its on one of the so called justice pages )

cig butt they tested for DNA were next to the log 65 meters away (people can run 100m in under 10 seconds) so no not at the the other end of the beach. there were also other cig butts that were the same brand near the crime scene.

No prove that clothes were lost before crime or that they swam before crime thats just there story (no evidence to back this up)

Wai Phyo testified he found a phone on the beach (iphone4 thb15,000) his friend testified he smashed it up as he worried who's it was a phone that matched Davids.

We was told how these 2 were just poor migrants all they wanted to do is send money to their dear old Mums, But seem to be flush enough to destroy property worth 15,000thb

No, just good old Disco Dan twisting the truth in his usual hapless manner.

Did MM go to get more wine, or was it beer? But the wine bottle's just another red herring anyway, even more so than the phone because the police didn't investigate it.

Cig butts that were found where they were seen playing guitar and singing hours before the crime.

If WP returned to the beach at 4am (with MM, who was deemed uninvolved by the police), then he lost his stuff before the crime was committed.

Plenty of expensive found phones discovered in police raids after the crime, nobody in any hurry to sell them.

Haha so many wannabe detectives on this forum.

[DiscoDan]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DiscoDan

[Khun Han]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

I point out the bald facts that he always makes provocative, pro-prosecution posts, whilst pleading ignorance to pro-defence information that has already been discussed many, many times. He responds by bleating anout personal attacks and saying that he won't take the bait, then goes straight on to make a personal attack based mostly on more self-proclaimed ignorance of case facts!!!

And, I take the trouble to explain one of the main flaws in the Thai judicial system (judges routinely accepting police hearsay evidence), which is another bald fact, and he tries to stir up trouble by repeating a false accusation against me. The guy's just an out-and-out troll!

[DiscoDan]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

And I think, this is not about what "brings some comfort to those closest to him"!

This is a bout 2 people, who are IMHO, innocent of the crime and who are in danger of loosing their lives or spend the rest of their lives in jail!

The RTP -along with the Thai court- spoonfed these people lie after inconsistency after made up "evidence".

I'd rather stick with the Witheridge- statement, that is not at all jubilant about the outcome of the case.

This is not a feelgood- question!

It was a facebook post not a statement. and she has retracted it

The Millers still stand by there statement.

Mr Miller says that while the family support the guilty conviction, they don't agree with further loss of life.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-05-23/miller-family-are-against-death-penalty-for-guilty-pair/

So there WHOLE family support it and his friends.

Unlike the Witheridges as it has only been Laura & yet no friends.

[Khun Han]

Yes same with the defense

The labs were not ISO accredited (now not appealing this) turns out they are

They were on the beach till 1 then went back to sleep, no actually they went back down to the beach at 4am

The hoe was never tested for dna, they did actually test it

They only had 1 beer each no they also had a bottle of wine that was found at the crime scene

WP said he found the phone in a bar, then admitted he found it on the beach

WP & ZL did not see anyone on the beach MM yes there was a western couple.

DNA was impossible to test in 24hrs, lab has kits that can do tests in under 24 hours

Dna tested in under 24 hrs was mixed sample no it was Dna taken after there arrest.

Labs that have contravened their required ISO testing standards.

One of the B2 went back to the beach to look for their possessions. This fact has never changed.

Wasn't it the police themselves who claimed to have only tested the hoe for fingerprints?

The fact that they drank two separate lots of alcohol hours before the crime has never changed. A wine bottle was spotted by someone on this forum in crime scene photos. There was a beach party going on from Mon Tuvichien's bar near the crime scene at the time of the crime.

That phone with the lack of evidence chain of custody.

The B3 are not one person: they don't do things look at things, get distracted by things in perfect unison any more than any other group of people.

The DNA again: what a mess! You might be best off keeping mum on this one. The prosecution case is going to be made to look ever more foolish on the DNA matter as this debacle continues to unfold.

Anyone else noticed that it is standard practice for the prosucution and their internet supporters to twist every little action/inaction by the B2 into 'suspicious' behaviour? If one of them had gone for a piss in a nearby bar that night, there would have been a bar found that was 10 metres closer and had a few more people in it: "they didn't use the much closer bar because they wanted as few people as possible to see them" etc, etc.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

And I think, this is not about what "brings some comfort to those closest to him"!

This is a bout 2 people, who are IMHO, innocent of the crime and who are in danger of loosing their lives or spend the rest of their lives in jail!

The RTP -along with the Thai court- spoonfed these people lie after inconsistency after made up "evidence".

I'd rather stick with the Witheridge- statement, that is not at all jubilant about the outcome of the case.

This is not a feelgood- question!

It was a facebook post not a statement. and she has retracted it

The Millers still stand by there statement.

Mr Miller says that while the family support the guilty conviction, they don't agree with further loss of life.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-05-23/miller-family-are-against-death-penalty-for-guilty-pair/

So there WHOLE family support it and his friends.

Unlike the Witheridges as it has only been Laura & yet no friends.

Yes, job well done by the Thai authorities in intimidating her into deleting the post. More embarrassment and shame for them swept under the carpet .

[Khun Han]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

The prosecution originally claimed that they had searched the hoe for fingerprints with a magnifying glass! Inspector Clouseau, where are you?

DNA from David that wasn't blood or damaged tissue was found on the handle of the hoe. No wonder the prosecution kept quiet about it: this completely contradicted their fairy story about how the murders played out.

[somo]

I have just read an article about the appeal on Andrew Drummond's site and although I know he is a critic of the Thai justice system I find it hard to refute the points made in the appeal which must surely succeed if Thailand wants to retain any credibility. Anyone interested in the case should read it. Just google his name.

[Khun Han]

Maybe not Village idiot but vested interests?

This...

All of this talk of the murderer still on the loose has probably hurt business...

Can't wait for it all to be brushed under the carpet so the young, drunk diving students come back and the good times roll again...

Until one of them decides to say 'no' to a spoilt rich brats advances...

The big problem with saying no to those advances is your life might well come to a bizarre end which will have some kind of link to 'unlucky' Koh Tao.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Khun Han

[DiscoDan]

PHUKET: Koh Tao murder suspects offered 2nd DNA tests

THAILAND: Prime Minister Prayut Chan-Ocha said yesterday (October 29) that police will allow two Myanmar men accused of killing a pair of British tourists on Koh Tao to have another DNA test, as questions mount over the murder probe.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-offered-2nd-dna-tests-49403.php#sthash.NruRhUuB.dpuf

[DiscoDan]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

Well Theo this is the person who is now trying to claim the french diver who died in Surat thani is in someway involved.

He believes that instead of the mafia killing him on the island they let him have a holiday in Indonesia first then waited for him to get off the ferry a few minutes before it departed for KT to by some smokes.

[rockingrobin]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

DiscoDan

The prosecution we didnt test the handle of the hoe for dna, but instead looked for fingerprints.

Then when the defense did re-test the hoe handle for dna they found Davids dna, along with others.

The prosecution then said well actually we found Davids dna on the handle as well

So again why would the prosecution deny testing the handle of the hoe

[Moonsterk]

Dan, it seems as though Hannah's family have a very different opinion to yourself on this matter. You have to respect that, and respect any decisions they make to work with others to seek what they perceive as justice for Hannah. Calling them 'brainwashed' and trying to discredit their stance is incredibly demeaning and insulting toward them. And you do yourself and your argument no favours trying to do this.

It is not established the entire Witheridge family is against the guilty verdict, only Laura.

You're regurgitating a falsehood to bake it into fact.

And no one is attacking her.

You're regurgitating a falsehood to bake it into fact.

We are only questioning if she has been brainwashed by the Samui Gaggle- seems to be common.

You oftten depend on a straw man argument, Straw man, ad hominem, regurgitiation of half baked rumours is what I see continuously from the supporters of the convicted

As I have said before Laura has a right to say what she has if she says she or her parents witnessed any of these remarks the judges made I will believe her.

Just as I trust what the Millers said because they sat through the trial.

I don't doubt for one second she has had threatening phone and I don't doubt she has been followed in her car the question is by who ?

But I know the women that refer to 2 possible killers as Cute, adorable etc will do anything to have these 2 men found innocent even if it means damaging a family that has already been through an awful experience.

Completely and nauseatingly adoring of one convicted particularly. She also issued that BS DNA meme posted it everywhere as did her 1000 + followers. It's a cult by every definition.

I believe she handled the, er... easily handled companions of Luke Miller and also the Jack saga mother was henning them in Bangkok and got that rumour in the oven baking- that one seems to have ran out of gas, though when UK authorities simply did not find it, or its purveyor credible.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Moonsterk]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

DiscoDan

The prosecution we didnt test the handle of the hoe for dna, but instead looked for fingerprints.

Then when the defense did re-test the hoe handle for dna they found Davids dna, along with others.

The prosecution then said well actually we found Davids dna on the handle as well

So again why would the prosecution deny testing the handle of the hoe

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

[Moonsterk]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

Well Theo this is the person who is now trying to claim the french diver who died in Surat thani is in someway involved.

He believes that instead of the mafia killing him on the island they let him have a holiday in Indonesia first then waited for him to get off the ferry a few minutes before it departed for KT to by some smokes.

You mean the one who was about 40 lbs overweight, a smoker, a hard liquor imbiber, had an infection in his leg, was on medication either for it or a chronic circulatory disease that effected his right arm, and went diving to 60 meter depth before his gf reported he was not well and disoriented after he went wandering off and was found dead two weeks later? That Frenchman was murdered?

[rockingrobin]

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

DiscoDan

The prosecution we didnt test the handle of the hoe for dna, but instead looked for fingerprints.

Then when the defense did re-test the hoe handle for dna they found Davids dna, along with others.

The prosecution then said well actually we found Davids dna on the handle as well

So again why would the prosecution deny testing the handle of the hoe

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

[Moonsterk]

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Is the judgement sound, or discredited in your accessment?

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

You assume no prosecution persons lie under oath as Khun Han said you should educate yourself first.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

When challenged in court, Lt Col Nurod admitted that further discussion about the hair strand had indeed taken place, but he did not reveal exactly what was said.

Source: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

....produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

Why wasn't this pathologist produced as a witness if this was the case breaker? Was the statement made under oath? Was there supporting evidence produced such as a diary? A pathologist would keep such records.

[DM07]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

And I think, this is not about what "brings some comfort to those closest to him"!

This is a bout 2 people, who are IMHO, innocent of the crime and who are in danger of loosing their lives or spend the rest of their lives in jail!

The RTP -along with the Thai court- spoonfed these people lie after inconsistency after made up "evidence".

I'd rather stick with the Witheridge- statement, that is not at all jubilant about the outcome of the case.

This is not a feelgood- question!

It was a facebook post not a statement. and she has retracted it

The Millers still stand by there statement.

Mr Miller says that while the family support the guilty conviction, they don't agree with further loss of life.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2016-05-23/miller-family-are-against-death-penalty-for-guilty-pair/

So there WHOLE family support it and his friends.

Unlike the Witheridges as it has only been Laura & yet no friends.

Care to read this?

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1450938246

This is -in fact- an official statement by the Witheridge- family.

Not a facebook post!

And it is way less "triumphant" than the Miller's statement!

[Moonsterk]

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?

We've had the straw man arguments, this is the grasping at straw argument. Wisps, really. Dust.

[rockingrobin]

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

Forward what DNA? To where? The DNA on the hoe blade? David's DNA was Asian?

We've had the straw man arguments, this is the grasping at straw argument. Wisps, really. Dust.

You are right

[jimmybkk]

As far as I am aware, none of the friends and family of the deceased who are reported to be in support of the guilty verdict were actually on the island at the time of the murders, let alone out and about with the deceased in the hours before they were slain. I think a lot can be learned from the actions of David's and Hannah's friends who were with them that night, such as Chris Ware. Chris was apparently a childhood friend of David's and it's been reported that they were travelling together and were sharing a room on Koh Tao. The CCTV footage released shows him out with David that night, and TV reports show him clearly distressed as he is shown images of David's body and apparently being asked to identify some of David's belongings. Initially he was even considered a suspect.

After the trial, Chris must have felt under enormous pressure to release a statement that agreed with the statement released by the family of his childhood friend, confirming that he also believed the guilty verdict was the right verdict. It could've put the whole thing to bed once and for all if someone so close to the events of that night came forward and said that he believed the right guys had been charged with committing the murders and that he supported their conviction. I'm sure he would like nothing more than to see his friend's killers brought to justice, and publicly offering his support to the charges and the verdict handed down to the B2 may also have removed any lingering doubts people may have had about his involvement in the murders. In other words, there would appear to be a lot of benefits to Chris offering his public support to the guilty verdict if that is what he truly believed. But he didn't, and as far as I am aware to this day he hasn't. He's remained silent, as have the other friend's of David and Hannah.

Not so long ago, before the trial, I viewed the silence of the friends of the deceased who were with them that night with disdain. I have since changed my opinion, and I now think their silence actually speaks volumes.

The friends of murdered Jerseyman David Miller say the guilty verdict for two Burmese men delivered on Christmas eve, 'brings some comfort to those closest to him'.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-12-27/murdered-mans-friends-say-guilty-verdict-brings-some-comfort/

I think this statement actually speaks volumes.

Hmmm... I think that what speaks loudest in the link you provided is the fact that those "Friends of David Miller" are nameless. Coulda been a quote from a facebook page set up by you and Moonsterk called "Friends of David Miller" for all I know...

[Chris Lawrence]

Take a leaf out of Red Bull's book and just don't turn up for the execution?

[DM07]

PHUKET: Koh Tao murder suspects offered 2nd DNA tests

THAILAND: Prime Minister Prayut Chan-Ocha said yesterday (October 29) that police will allow two Myanmar men accused of killing a pair of British tourists on Koh Tao to have another DNA test, as questions mount over the murder probe.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-offered-2nd-dna-tests-49403.php#sthash.NruRhUuB.dpuf

Okay...someone help me out here!

What is this actually going to achieve?

They test the DNA of the B2( for another time) against...what exactly?

The used up/ gone/ stolen/ lost DNA- sample, extracted from Hannah?

Or against the made up/ dreamed up/ pulled out of their axxes results of an alleged sample, extracted from Hannah?

[jimmybkk]

PHUKET: Koh Tao murder suspects offered 2nd DNA tests

THAILAND: Prime Minister Prayut Chan-Ocha said yesterday (October 29) that police will allow two Myanmar men accused of killing a pair of British tourists on Koh Tao to have another DNA test, as questions mount over the murder probe.

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-koh-tao-murder-suspects-offered-2nd-dna-tests-49403.php#sthash.NruRhUuB.dpuf

Okay...someone help me out here!

What is this actually going to achieve?

They test the DNA of the B2( for another time) against...what exactly?

The used up/ gone/ stolen/ lost DNA- sample, extracted from Hannah?

Or against the made up/ dreamed up/ pulled out of their axxes results of an alleged sample, extracted from Hannah?

You don't need no help buddy - you hit the nail on the head...