Palestinian car driver shot dead by Israeli soldiers

[SgtRock]

I would suggest that some posters need to watch the video provided by Morch.

This happened at a Military checkpoint. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has lived in this situation knows what the drills are at Military checkpoints.

It should be no surprise that lethal force was used.

Vehicle borne IED's have been used for decades and are a favoured method of terrorist attack.

So the next time an Israeli woman in an Israeli car steps on the gas rather than the brakes at a military checkpoint it's OK to kill her?

Read and comprehend my post and do not try and misrepresent what I have said.

I neither mentioned Israeli's or Palestininians, I did make reference to the drills in Military checkpoints. I also mentioned methods of terrorists attack. Both of which I have extensive, first hand experience of. Have you ?

Watch the video. I would doubt that at the time of opening fire the number plate was even a consideration.

[dexterm]

I would suggest that some posters need to watch the video provided by Morch.

This happened at a Military checkpoint. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has lived in this situation knows what the drills are at Military checkpoints.

It should be no surprise that lethal force was used.

Vehicle borne IED's have been used for decades and are a favoured method of terrorist attack.

So the next time an Israeli woman in an Israeli car steps on the gas rather than the brakes at a military checkpoint it's OK to kill her?

Read and comprehend my post and do not try and misrepresent what I have said.

I neither mentioned Israeli's or Palestininians, I did make reference to the drills in Military checkpoints. I also mentioned methods of terrorists attack. Both of which I have extensive, first hand experience of. Have you ?

Watch the video. I would doubt that at the time of opening fire the number plate was even a consideration.

I did watch the video. People fall asleep at the wheel, have heart attacks/strokes, get distracted or simply panic after pressing the wrong pedal.

[SgtRock]

I would suggest that some posters need to watch the video provided by Morch.

This happened at a Military checkpoint. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has lived in this situation knows what the drills are at Military checkpoints.

It should be no surprise that lethal force was used.

Vehicle borne IED's have been used for decades and are a favoured method of terrorist attack.

So the next time an Israeli woman in an Israeli car steps on the gas rather than the brakes at a military checkpoint it's OK to kill her?

Read and comprehend my post and do not try and misrepresent what I have said.

I neither mentioned Israeli's or Palestininians, I did make reference to the drills in Military checkpoints. I also mentioned methods of terrorists attack. Both of which I have extensive, first hand experience of. Have you ?

Watch the video. I would doubt that at the time of opening fire the number plate was even a consideration.

I did watch the video. People fall asleep at the wheel, have heart attacks/strokes, get distracted or simply panic after pressing the wrong pedal.

Yes that is true, but an unknown element, therefore irrelevant.

And I merely point out that having read a couple of articles, watched the video, terrorist tactics and the close proximity to a Military checkpoint I can understand why the woman was shot

None of that will be of any relevance to you though. You can only see one thing.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full..

@ SgtRock

I am sure the IDF who killed her would appreciate your counsel, although I doubt they will need it with a plethora of standard excuses at their disposal.

Not much consolation to the dead woman's loved ones though.

Doesn't override the fact that none of this would have happened of course if the IDF wre not illegally occupying her land that she was driving in and the illegal Zionist colonists they were protecting were back behind the 67 lines in Israel itself.

[SgtRock]

Sorry thread full..

@ SgtRock

I am sure the IDF who killed her would appreciate your counsel, although I doubt they will need it with a plethora of standard excuses at their disposal.

Not much consolation to the dead woman's loved ones though.

Doesn't override the fact that none of this would have happened of course if the IDF wre not illegally occupying her land that she was driving in and the illegal Zionist colonists they were protecting were back behind the 67 lines in Israel itself.

You really are trying to get into a really stupid argument.

I have gave you valid reasons, within RofE why this shooting happened. Accept them or do not, I do not care.

I will not lower myself to put in print what would have happened if it had been a successful terrorist attack.

As for your last sentence. The hypocrisy is now seeping from you. Take a shower.

[Alwyn]

Israeli soldiers shot and killed a Palestinian woman who rammed a vehicle into a parked car near an Israeli settlement ...

May be it only was a traffic accident ?

Nobody was hurt by her action , ( except the 2 people sitting inside HER car ) , did she deserve to die ?

Sorry , but to me it looks like the Israeli soldiers are trained to kill .

Of course they're trained to kill, they're soldiers.

[Greenhill]

Sorry, but has this ANYTHING to do with ThaiVisa Forum???

Aren't there more appropriate sites for this, very localized discussion?

[RuamRudy]

Sorry, but has this ANYTHING to do with ThaiVisa Forum???

Aren't there more appropriate sites for this, very localized discussion?

You have stumbled into the World News forum, and this is news that is happening in the world.

[Galactus]

again cursed lands again trouble.

you murder a 15 years old palestinian recently and of course they resist back. what do you expect? this bloody vicious circle created by rogue state israel.

this is no way this is a terrorist attack but just simple resistance if of course this was not a traffic accident.

palestinians are not bombing or spraying bullets around. or this is not a suicide bomber attack by a car.

and yeah, how did idf soldiers differentiate the fact that if this is just a simple traffic accident or not?

so do\will they shoot every palestinian for simple fender benders too?!

it is easy to israel to find reasons to murder palestinians. just a form of ethnic cleansing, nothing else. and it looks like israel will continue to murder if world will not wake up say 'stop'!

well anyway 'it was a mistake' maybe so it must be OK for Israelis, no? mistake to mistake!

Edited June 25, 2016 by Galactus

[Galactus]

Sorry, but has this ANYTHING to do with ThaiVisa Forum???

Aren't there more appropriate sites for this, very localized discussion?

so then what are you trying to say?

do you want people to discuss only matters related with visas in Thailand bc name of this forum is ThaiVisa?

you dont like it, dont read it.

[Galactus]

"Israeli forces have shot dead at least 198 Palestinians, 135 of whom Israel has said were assailants. Others were killed in clashes and protests."

Israel makes no mention of those who were killed for absolutely no reason other than they were Palestinian.

There is also no mention of how many were killed for absolutely not reason other than they were Israeli.

The article clearly states that there are two sets of people killed by Israeli forces - assailants or those killed in protests and clashes, so it is trying to paint all those killed as being directly involved in some form of attack on Israel, whereas that is not true. There is a third set - those who were killed because trigger happy kids with uzis are given tacit approval to kill Palestinians.

The "article" is a a piece by Euronews, not an Israeli media outlet, neither very sympathetic to Israel. So it is not "Israel makes no mention".

It also does not detail or differentiate much with regard to casualties on the Israeli side.

Do you have figures relating to this "third set", or is this more of a general statement?

well, nowadays, no one is sympathetic to Israel.

apart from pro zionist media and people.

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full..

@ SgtRock

I am sure the IDF who killed her would appreciate your counsel, although I doubt they will need it with a plethora of standard excuses at their disposal.

Not much consolation to the dead woman's loved ones though.

Doesn't override the fact that none of this would have happened of course if the IDF wre not illegally occupying her land that she was driving in and the illegal Zionist colonists they were protecting were back behind the 67 lines in Israel itself.

You really are trying to get into a really stupid argument.

I have gave you valid reasons, within RofE why this shooting happened. Accept them or do not, I do not care.

I will not lower myself to put in print what would have happened if it had been a successful terrorist attack.

As for your last sentence. The hypocrisy is now seeping from you. Take a shower.

And if it wasn't anything to do with an attempted attack; was simply an accident...any words of sympathy for the woman or her loved ones from you? Or was it just dehumanizing "collateral damage"?

No need to be rude.

No hypocrisy about my statement at all. These are my firmly held beliefs if you have read any of my other posts, that if the occupation ends with a just peace agreement, these incidents will end.

[soc]

More details and a video clip available here:

2 injured in likely car-ramming attack in West Bank; suspect killed

http://www.timesofisrael.com/2-injured-in-possible-car-ramming-near-kiryat-arba-suspect-shot/

Execution on the basis of 'likely' and 'possible' circumstances sounds a lot like summary execution based upon ethnic prejudice. Maybe the lady's foot slipped on the accelerator or some other innocent explanation? As the article states, the couple in the other car received only light injuries, hardly the work of a determined terrorist.

No one but yourself claimed she was, or described her, as a "determined terrorist". Guess some would be more content if she was more successful.

As for the "maybe....", and maybe she was exactly trying to ram her car into people. But that does not bear mentioning as a possibility as it undermines the usual narrative.

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

[Scott]

Please keep personal comments out of the discussion. Stay on topic.

[SgtRock]

Sorry thread full..

@ SgtRock

I am sure the IDF who killed her would appreciate your counsel, although I doubt they will need it with a plethora of standard excuses at their disposal.

Not much consolation to the dead woman's loved ones though.

Doesn't override the fact that none of this would have happened of course if the IDF wre not illegally occupying her land that she was driving in and the illegal Zionist colonists they were protecting were back behind the 67 lines in Israel itself.

You really are trying to get into a really stupid argument.

I have gave you valid reasons, within RofE why this shooting happened. Accept them or do not, I do not care.

I will not lower myself to put in print what would have happened if it had been a successful terrorist attack.

As for your last sentence. The hypocrisy is now seeping from you. Take a shower.

And if it wasn't anything to do with an attempted attack; was simply an accident...any words of sympathy for the woman or her loved ones from you? Or was it just dehumanizing "collateral damage"?

No need to be rude.

No hypocrisy about my statement at all. These are my firmly held beliefs if you have read any of my other posts, that if the occupation ends with a just peace agreement, these incidents will end.

Try and keep up.

It is not known if it was a terrorist attack. Even if it wasn't a full blown terrorist attack, have you never heard of dummy / dry run to test and monitor reactions ? All standard SOP's for terrorists. Of course you probably already know that, or perhaps you really are on the clueless side.

So why you think I would be offering words of sympathy is beyond me.

'' Or was it just dehumanising collateral damage ''

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

That you chose to ignore or fail to understand this is not my concern.

Let me help you out a little bit with your last paragraph. Inbuilt and ingrained decades long hatred does not and never will end with the signing of a peace agreement.

[mania]

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

This makes no sense at all???

IF............& that is a BIG IF...because obviously it was not..........but if it was a terrorist car bomb type situation etc.

then yes proximity would matter...because obviously proximity has already been breached

But to shoot & kill a driver after a crash where nothing happened other than a crash/accident & nothing has gone off etc...protected them from what exactly????

After the crash did she start firing a weapon??

After the crash did she make a threatening move???

You know sometimes it is just beyond belief the claims excuses given for this continued behavior

Edited June 25, 2016 by mania

[mania]

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

That sword cuts both ways

[RuamRudy]

Execution on the basis of 'likely' and 'possible' circumstances sounds a lot like summary execution based upon ethnic prejudice. Maybe the lady's foot slipped on the accelerator or some other innocent explanation? As the article states, the couple in the other car received only light injuries, hardly the work of a determined terrorist.

No one but yourself claimed she was, or described her, as a "determined terrorist". Guess some would be more content if she was more successful.

As for the "maybe....", and maybe she was exactly trying to ram her car into people. But that does not bear mentioning as a possibility as it undermines the usual narrative.

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

[Morch]

The "article" is a a piece by Euronews, not an Israeli media outlet, neither very sympathetic to Israel. So it is not "Israel makes no mention".

It also does not detail or differentiate much with regard to casualties on the Israeli side.

Do you have figures relating to this "third set", or is this more of a general statement?

The third set - well, I would say even one is one too many. So - the 15 year old boy who was shot dead a couple of days ago. He is an innocent victim of an out of control IDF.

So no actual figures.

Being able to provide one example, and coupling it with "out of control" seems a bit over the top.

Additionally, limiting this observation to Palestinians, while whinging about innocents being killed based on ethnic or national affiliations is somewhat disingenuous.

I gave you one example. How many innocent lives lost would you consider was too many?

I do not understand your last point. Can you please clarify?

You make a general statement, yet mange to back it up with but a single example. The added moralizing is nothing but the usual fluff. Pretty much standard on these topics, where opinions seem to count more than facts.

Clarification? By all means.

You refer to a "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not assailants or those killed in protests and clashes), allegedly killed by "trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.". I merely point out that innocents are killed on both sides. As happened not too long ago in Tel Aviv. Whinging about how the OP (again, not Israel as first posted) presents things while doing the same is rather obvious.

[Galactus]

The "article" is a a piece by Euronews, not an Israeli media outlet, neither very sympathetic to Israel. So it is not "Israel makes no mention".
It also does not detail or differentiate much with regard to casualties on the Israeli side.
Do you have figures relating to this "third set", or is this more of a general statement?

The third set - well, I would say even one is one too many. So - the 15 year old boy who was shot dead a couple of days ago. He is an innocent victim of an out of control IDF.

So no actual figures.
Being able to provide one example, and coupling it with "out of control" seems a bit over the top.

Additionally, limiting this observation to Palestinians, while whinging about innocents being killed based on ethnic or national affiliations is somewhat disingenuous.

I gave you one example. How many innocent lives lost would you consider was too many?

I do not understand your last point. Can you please clarify?

You make a general statement, yet mange to back it up with but a single example. The added moralizing is nothing but the usual fluff. Pretty much standard on these topics, where opinions seem to count more than facts.

Clarification? By all means.

You refer to a "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not assailants or those killed in protests and clashes), allegedly killed by "trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.". I merely point out that innocents are killed on both sides. As happened not too long ago in Tel Aviv. Whinging about how the OP (again, not Israel as first posted) presents things while doing the same is rather obvious.

This is not an encyclopedia. This is a forum. Of course we will project our opinions here. But facts are a simple google away for the open minded people wanna grab them. But not for brainwashed it looks like.
Still as long as you trash every idea against israeli opression, I am not sure why you are here reading every comment against it and answering everyone. Edited June 26, 2016 by Scott

[Morch]

And I suggest that you lay off the personal remarks.

Being a "determined" terrorist is irrelevant. It does not assure "success", nor does it figure in the response to the attack under these circumstances.

I assure you that nothing personal was intended.

As of yet, we know little of the circumstances that led to the collision - we do not even know that it was an attack. It was described both as possible and likely - yet summary justice was meted out and nothing can change that, even the facts.

Yeah, the we-do-not-know-the-facts is pulled up whenever Palestinians are possibly in the wrong. When this is pointed out with regards to possible Israeli transgressions, it is dismissed with scorn.

The woman is dead and all signs suggest the death was wholly unnecessary. While neither you nor I know the facts, I remain with an open mind and you show disregard, the same disregard you showed earlier in the week when an innocent boy was repeatedly shot by the IDF.

What "all signs suggest" that? And then go on about "open mind"? Seems like you already made up your mind (probably even before reading the OP).

Again, the moralizing personal remarks are unnecessary.

Can't recall keeping an open mind and asserting that details are not fully known were much of a theme when discussing the death of the 15yo Palestinian. Apparently such caution is reserved mainly for cases where Palestinians might be in fault.

[RuamRudy]

The third set - well, I would say even one is one too many. So - the 15 year old boy who was shot dead a couple of days ago. He is an innocent victim of an out of control IDF.

So no actual figures.

Being able to provide one example, and coupling it with "out of control" seems a bit over the top.

Additionally, limiting this observation to Palestinians, while whinging about innocents being killed based on ethnic or national affiliations is somewhat disingenuous.

I gave you one example. How many innocent lives lost would you consider was too many?

I do not understand your last point. Can you please clarify?

You make a general statement, yet mange to back it up with but a single example. The added moralizing is nothing but the usual fluff. Pretty much standard on these topics, where opinions seem to count more than facts.

Clarification? By all means.

You refer to a "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not assailants or those killed in protests and clashes), allegedly killed by "trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.". I merely point out that innocents are killed on both sides. As happened not too long ago in Tel Aviv. Whinging about how the OP (again, not Israel as first posted) presents things while doing the same is rather obvious.

The OP was not about any attrocities perpetrated on Israelis, so please do not try to obfuscate the issue with your whataboutery.

I ask once more - how many innocent people need to die from IDF action before you would consider them to be out of control? According to Haaretz, "It is unclear if incident was a premeditated attack or car accident." As I don't know the facts, I would tend to side with the (almost) universal principle of innocent until proven guilty. Except, she cannot be questioned now because some trigger happy kid with an uzi killed her.

[Morch]

Another video clip, this time from a different angle:

https://www.facebook.com/QudsN/videos/vb.119605611449682/1195142363895996/?type=2&theater

[RuamRudy]

I assure you that nothing personal was intended.

As of yet, we know little of the circumstances that led to the collision - we do not even know that it was an attack. It was described both as possible and likely - yet summary justice was meted out and nothing can change that, even the facts.

Yeah, the we-do-not-know-the-facts is pulled up whenever Palestinians are possibly in the wrong. When this is pointed out with regards to possible Israeli transgressions, it is dismissed with scorn.

The woman is dead and all signs suggest the death was wholly unnecessary. While neither you nor I know the facts, I remain with an open mind and you show disregard, the same disregard you showed earlier in the week when an innocent boy was repeatedly shot by the IDF.

What "all signs suggest" that? And then go on about "open mind"? Seems like you already made up your mind (probably even before reading the OP).

Again, the moralizing personal remarks are unnecessary.

Can't recall keeping an open mind and asserting that details are not fully known were much of a theme when discussing the death of the 15yo Palestinian. Apparently such caution is reserved mainly for cases where Palestinians might be in fault.

Signs? Minor car damage, light injuries to the affected parties in the other car, no media fanfare highlighting the dead woman as some jihadi terrorist, no facts whatsoever to suggest she was...

[RuamRudy]

Another video clip, this time from a different angle:

https://www.facebook.com/QudsN/videos/vb.119605611449682/1195142363895996/?type=2&theater

And what does that tell you? Are you confident, from watching that clip, to state that there was no technical malfunction on her car?

[Morch]

Seems a strange way to attempt to kill someone by ramming your car into a parked car from behind. Much more certainty if you target people standing unprotected. It could have been a simple accident or perhaps a heart attack. We will never know because of the now routine practise for judge, jury, executioner of IDF, using the the standard "I thought I or others were in danger."

Would the woman have been instantly executed if the car had had Israeli number plates?

Not all attacks carried out are the product of careful planning or display great capabilities. Logic is not a prerequisite for carrying out attacks.

It could have been many things, the point being that some here are willing to accept any mitigating half-cooked explanations when it comes to Palestinian attacks, and yet display absolute certainty with regard to circumstances and motivations relating to Israelis.

You do not even know that the soldier who shot the car noticed the number plates. Simply making bogus talking points.

So you are saying it is standard practise for the IDF to shoot to kill the driver of any traffic accident.. Israeli or Palestinian number plates?

Wouldn't it be better for the IDF find out the facts rather than shoot first. Rules of Engagement dictate the need to neutralize the situation not simply kill as a first option.

Kindly stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, at least qualify your nonsense claims - that you imply it was a traffic accident does not make it so.

Looking at available clips, it does not seem likely, in my opinion.

[Morch]

I would suggest that some posters need to watch the video provided by Morch.

This happened at a Military checkpoint. Everyone, and I mean everyone, who has lived in this situation knows what the drills are at Military checkpoints.

It should be no surprise that lethal force was used.

Vehicle borne IED's have been used for decades and are a favoured method of terrorist attack.

So the next time an Israeli woman in an Israeli car steps on the gas rather than the brakes at a military checkpoint it's OK to kill her?

You have no idea that the soldiers identified her as Palestinian, you do not even know which plate numbers the car carried.

If the car carried Israeli plate numbers, I think it wouldn't matter much - more than enough stolen Israeli cars and plates in the West Bank.

[Morch]

Read and comprehend my post and do not try and misrepresent what I have said.

I neither mentioned Israeli's or Palestininians, I did make reference to the drills in Military checkpoints. I also mentioned methods of terrorists attack. Both of which I have extensive, first hand experience of. Have you ?

Watch the video. I would doubt that at the time of opening fire the number plate was even a consideration.

I did watch the video. People fall asleep at the wheel, have heart attacks/strokes, get distracted or simply panic after pressing the wrong pedal.

So many options. Surprising how open minded some can be when it suits their agenda.

When discussing the Palestinian teen's death, somehow all possibilities were rejected in favor of a single narrative.

She was not asleep at the wheel. She was 18, and as far as I can tell from social media and media reports, not heart diseases.

And, going back to the last topic, apparently Palestinian can make mistakes, but Israelis cannot.

[Morch]

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

This makes no sense at all???

IF............& that is a BIG IF...because obviously it was not..........but if it was a terrorist car bomb type situation etc.

then yes proximity would matter...because obviously proximity has already been breached

But to shoot & kill a driver after a crash where nothing happened other than a crash/accident & nothing has gone off etc...protected them from what exactly????

After the crash did she start firing a weapon??

After the crash did she make a threatening move???

You know sometimes it is just beyond belief the claims excuses given for this continued behavior

From the second clip posted, it looks like she managed to back the car after the initial crash. Could possibly have tried for a another run.

There was, not so long ago, another car ramming attack by a Palestinian in Jerusalem. After the initial shock from the crash, he stepped out and stabbed a bunch of people.

[Morch]

So no actual figures.

Being able to provide one example, and coupling it with "out of control" seems a bit over the top.

Additionally, limiting this observation to Palestinians, while whinging about innocents being killed based on ethnic or national affiliations is somewhat disingenuous.

I gave you one example. How many innocent lives lost would you consider was too many?

I do not understand your last point. Can you please clarify?

You make a general statement, yet mange to back it up with but a single example. The added moralizing is nothing but the usual fluff. Pretty much standard on these topics, where opinions seem to count more than facts.

Clarification? By all means.

You refer to a "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not assailants or those killed in protests and clashes), allegedly killed by "trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.". I merely point out that innocents are killed on both sides. As happened not too long ago in Tel Aviv. Whinging about how the OP (again, not Israel as first posted) presents things while doing the same is rather obvious.

The OP was not about any attrocities perpetrated on Israelis, so please do not try to obfuscate the issue with your whataboutery.

I ask once more - how many innocent people need to die from IDF action before you would consider them to be out of control? According to Haaretz, "It is unclear if incident was a premeditated attack or car accident." As I don't know the facts, I would tend to side with the (almost) universal principle of innocent until proven guilty. Except, she cannot be questioned now because some trigger happy kid with an uzi killed her.

The OP was also not about any atrocities perpetrated on Palestinians, and yet that did not seem to trouble you when going on about that "third set". The OP stated:

"Palestinian knife, shooting and car ramming attacks have killed 32 Israelis and two visiting U.S. citizens over the past eight months. Israeli forces have shot dead at least 198 Palestinians, 135 of whom Israel has said were assailants. Others were killed in clashes and protests.".

Somehow, you managed to first claim this was how things were presented by Israel (incorrect), and then to highlight a supposed "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not "assailants" and not "killed in clashes and protests"), while alleging they were killed by ""trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.".

As you cannot provide factual support for your general claim, the cop out is moralizing and obfuscating. Allow me to be thoroughly unimpressed with this clumsiness.

Keeping in an open mind while not knowing the facts would, logically, mean also not making assumptions of guilt with regard to the soldiers actions. Phrases such as "trigger happy" indicate moral judgement call based on assumed facts,

We differ on another thing - I'm pretty sure that details will come to light. This usually takes a wee bit more time then the normal TVF attention span can accommodate, though.