LaoPo Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 (edited) Today I received the following email: (I have no idea how I landed on their mailing list.... To whom it may concern We would like to take this opportunity to inform you of the official Koh Samui launch of the much talked about Vacation Investment Program (VIP) by Thailand Longstay Management (TLM). The event will be held at the Samui Palm Beach Hotel on the 18th November 2006, the event starts at 1.00pm. The official Bangkok Launch of VIP is to be held on the 29th November 2006 at the Ministry of Tourism. The Key people who will be speaking at the Koh Samui Launch are: Mr Ruamnakorn Tabtimtongchai – President of TLM Mr Niwat Sawadkeaw .- Chief of Surrathani Province Mr Chaiykarn Sudampanthorn – CEO of Samui Estate Corporation Representative’s of the Chief of Immigration Officials from the Land Office If you would like to attend this event please send your name and contact details to [email protected] to be added to the guest list. Please note the event will be in Thai, but there is English literature available and English speaking representatives on hand to answer any questions you may have. If you are unable to attend this event, a new company profile explaining VIP and its services will be sent to you via email. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Many Thanks The VIP Team Did anyone else received the same ? They launch this on Samui, PRIOR to the official launch in Bangkok on the 29th (??? ) and they do this in Thai..... Can't they find any Thai speakers to hold the launch in English ? this is their website: http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/index2.html LaoPo Edited November 15, 2006 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 Read this also ! http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/faq.html LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of the court Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Read this also !http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/faq.html LaoPo Yes , I got the same mail.............wondering what they are up to ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 strange that a programme aimed at attracting foriegners to invest in koh samui (initially) will be launched at an event where the speakers will be speaking in thai. some vague information on those links , sounds like the bastard son of the thailand elite programme , and a little bit iffy. but the 24 hour access to the services of the thai tourist police could prove to be a useful asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of the court Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Today I received the following email: (I have no idea how I landed on their mailing list.... To whom it may concern We would like to take this opportunity to inform you of the official Koh Samui launch of the much talked about Vacation Investment Program (VIP) by Thailand Longstay Management (TLM). The event will be held at the Samui Palm Beach Hotel on the 18th November 2006, the event starts at 1.00pm. The official Bangkok Launch of VIP is to be held on the 29th November 2006 at the Ministry of Tourism. The Key people who will be speaking at the Koh Samui Launch are: Mr Ruamnakorn Tabtimtongchai – President of TLM Mr Niwat Sawadkeaw .- Chief of Surrathani Province Mr Chaiykarn Sudampanthorn – CEO of Samui Estate Corporation Representative’s of the Chief of Immigration Officials from the Land Office If you would like to attend this event please send your name and contact details to [email protected] to be added to the guest list. Please note the event will be in Thai, but there is English literature available and English speaking representatives on hand to answer any questions you may have. If you are unable to attend this event, a new company profile explaining VIP and its services will be sent to you via email. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Many Thanks The VIP Team Did anyone else received the same ? They launch this on Samui, PRIOR to the official launch in Bangkok on the 29th (??? ) and they do this in Thai..... Can't they find any Thai speakers to hold the launch in English ? this is their website: http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/index2.html LaoPo They are no help if you already bourght a property........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of the court Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 strange that a programme aimed at attracting foriegners to invest in koh samui (initially) will be launched at an event where the speakers will be speaking in thai.some vague information on those links , sounds like the bastard son of the thailand elite programme , and a little bit iffy. but the 24 hour access to the services of the thai tourist police could prove to be a useful asset. they will take photo's of you and send them to the immigration.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleeing Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I thought the names looked familiar. Check this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85514 for the last 'discussion', or read this contribution for a quick explanation. The 'Vacation Investment Program' not a government-backed solution for foreigners to invest in Samui Real Estate In accordance with a government policy to promote the tourism industry as a means to stimulate direct foreign currency into the country and consequently to improve the economic status, the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) has recently launched its 'Long Stay' campaign to develop and promote long term stay in Thailand. It is hoping to attract retirees from countries that have harsh winters and a higher cost of living to stay for extended periods in Thailand, as well as visitors traveling for medical and health services, international athletes who wish to make Thailand their training base as well as international students. The 'long stay' campaign aims to offers to these groups, assistance and certain privileges like communication services, facilitating longer staying arrangement and a one-year visa. It does not create a new visa category, it aims to make it easier for these groups to apply for such a visa. Following the government policy to promote long term stay in Thailand a Samui Real Estate agent is advertising property claiming that the Thai government has created for this purpose a new way for foreigners to purchase property in Koh Samui, offering 'perpetual leasehold' via a scheme called 'Vacation Investment Program' (VIP). This scheme says it allows foreign investors to enjoy 'perpetual' leasehold on property in Koh Samui via a recently established private company that will act as the agent for the foreigner. In response to questions about TAT's involvement in the 'Vacation Investment Program', the TAT stated that foreign real estate investment is not part of a government policy to promote long term stay in Thailand or the TAT's longstay campaign objectives, nor does the TAT provide services for foreigners to invest in real estate on the Samui Island. The private Thailand Longstay company limited (TLM) is a service provider, which is 30% owned by the TAT, and has been entrusted to promote Thailand's Longstay campaign and to promote Thailand as a prime tourist destination for foreigners who wish to seek a long-term stay in Thailand. Herein we find the connection with the Thai government. However, it is the private TLM Company Limited via its subsidiary private Thailand Longstay Property Management Company Limited that is associated with the 'Vacation Investments Program' on Koh Samui. Both companies failed to give the legal basis for this property purchase/ lease scheme or to produce any evidence of a government-backed method for foreigners to lease property long term ‘continuing or enduring forever'. Present lease law does not allow leases to exceed a period of 30-years. Under the VIP scheme the foreign investor gives his money to the 100% Thai owned private VIP company that will register ownership over the property and in return gives a 30-year lease, which could be renewed in 'perpetuity'. However, like any other renewable lease constructions offered by any developer on the island, this cannot be guaranteed by law or the Royal Thai Government and the 'perpetuity' of the lease is merely based on a contractual renewal obligation. The VIP scheme claims it 'allows' the foreigner's name (as the lessee) on the land title deed, which guarantees the perpetual nature of the lease contract. However, this is not a new development or new law, as any lease in Thailand exceeding 3 years must be registered at the local Land office and includes the registration of the name of the lessee on the title deed. This new marketing scheme as offered by a Samui Real Estate agent has several legal implications and in practice it will encounter legal problems as the Land Code prohibits foreigners from purchasing land and prohibits Thai entities to acquire land as an agent of an 'alien'. Without proper governmental approval it must be deemed that the VIP will acquire the land under section 96 of the Land Code, as the owner in place of an alien, which contravenes section 113 of the Code. The privileges and facilities offered under the Thailand Longstay tourism campaign are open for all foreign members and are separate from any VIP property scheme (TAT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 http://www.guidetothailand.com/thailand-tr...on/longstay.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I thought the names looked familiar. Check this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85514 for the last 'discussion', or read this contribution for a quick explanation. The 'Vacation Investment Program' not a government-backed solution for foreigners to invest in Samui Real Estate In accordance with a government policy to promote the tourism industry as a means to stimulate direct foreign currency into the country and consequently to improve the economic status, the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) has recently launched its 'Long Stay' campaign to develop and promote long term stay in Thailand. It is hoping to attract retirees from countries that have harsh winters and a higher cost of living to stay for extended periods in Thailand, as well as visitors traveling for medical and health services, international athletes who wish to make Thailand their training base as well as international students. The 'long stay' campaign aims to offers to these groups, assistance and certain privileges like communication services, facilitating longer staying arrangement and a one-year visa. It does not create a new visa category, it aims to make it easier for these groups to apply for such a visa. Following the government policy to promote long term stay in Thailand a Samui Real Estate agent is advertising property claiming that the Thai government has created for this purpose a new way for foreigners to purchase property in Koh Samui, offering 'perpetual leasehold' via a scheme called 'Vacation Investment Program' (VIP). This scheme says it allows foreign investors to enjoy 'perpetual' leasehold on property in Koh Samui via a recently established private company that will act as the agent for the foreigner. In response to questions about TAT's involvement in the 'Vacation Investment Program', the TAT stated that foreign real estate investment is not part of a government policy to promote long term stay in Thailand or the TAT's longstay campaign objectives, nor does the TAT provide services for foreigners to invest in real estate on the Samui Island. The private Thailand Longstay company limited (TLM) is a service provider, which is 30% owned by the TAT, and has been entrusted to promote Thailand's Longstay campaign and to promote Thailand as a prime tourist destination for foreigners who wish to seek a long-term stay in Thailand. Herein we find the connection with the Thai government. However, it is the private TLM Company Limited via its subsidiary private Thailand Longstay Property Management Company Limited that is associated with the 'Vacation Investments Program' on Koh Samui. Both companies failed to give the legal basis for this property purchase/ lease scheme or to produce any evidence of a government-backed method for foreigners to lease property long term ‘continuing or enduring forever'. Present lease law does not allow leases to exceed a period of 30-years. Under the VIP scheme the foreign investor gives his money to the 100% Thai owned private VIP company that will register ownership over the property and in return gives a 30-year lease, which could be renewed in 'perpetuity'. However, like any other renewable lease constructions offered by any developer on the island, this cannot be guaranteed by law or the Royal Thai Government and the 'perpetuity' of the lease is merely based on a contractual renewal obligation. The VIP scheme claims it 'allows' the foreigner's name (as the lessee) on the land title deed, which guarantees the perpetual nature of the lease contract. However, this is not a new development or new law, as any lease in Thailand exceeding 3 years must be registered at the local Land office and includes the registration of the name of the lessee on the title deed. This new marketing scheme as offered by a Samui Real Estate agent has several legal implications and in practice it will encounter legal problems as the Land Code prohibits foreigners from purchasing land and prohibits Thai entities to acquire land as an agent of an 'alien'. Without proper governmental approval it must be deemed that the VIP will acquire the land under section 96 of the Land Code, as the owner in place of an alien, which contravenes section 113 of the Code. The privileges and facilities offered under the Thailand Longstay tourism campaign are open for all foreign members and are separate from any VIP property scheme (TAT). I completely agree with Fleeing and well said. This is 100% marketing with no legal substance or security for their victims...em, buyers. In fact, as Fleeing points out, it is quite probably illegal. But its not surprising coming from this particular Samui real estate agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Does anyone smells somethin' fishy here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Look in the property forum for more info about this 'program'. All services that are provided by this VIP program are easily obtainable. They are acting as an agent and that is illegal. When everything is promoted in 'Thai' you can assume it is targeted to Thai as a way of making money with services that don't offer anything worth paying for. A 1 year visa -> go to the immigration office. A signature on the back of the landpaper -> Go to the landoffice and sign a 'usefruct' or lease longer than 3 years. Perpetual does not exist in Thai law. They try to sell something that is not available. It is not more than a promise. A promise that wil not be kept! The promise for extending even when the promise is kept is not interesting. Pay 10 Million baht now for 30 years, in 2036 it will be at least 40 Million baht for the next 30 years, in 2066 it will be 100 million baht. Good luck with the available extensions. It is just throwing money away. A lease is good for short term or for business purposes when enough money can be made to cover the deprecation of the lease, and not the full 30 years have to be paid in advance. Tourist police is available 24 hours already, if they are helpfull has to be evaluated on every single case. Every wonder WHY they choose Samui for the introduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Look in the property forum for more info about this 'program'. All services that are provided by this VIP program are easily obtainable.They are acting as an agent and that is illegal. When everything is promoted in 'Thai' you can assume it is targeted to Thai as a way of making money with services that don't offer anything worth paying for. A 1 year visa -> go to the immigration office. A signature on the back of the landpaper -> Go to the landoffice and sign a 'usefruct' or lease longer than 3 years. Perpetual does not exist in Thai law. They try to sell something that is not available. It is not more than a promise. A promise that wil not be kept! The promise for extending even when the promise is kept is not interesting. Pay 10 Million baht now for 30 years, in 2036 it will be at least 40 Million baht for the next 30 years, in 2066 it will be 100 million baht. Good luck with the available extensions. It is just throwing money away. A lease is good for short term or for business purposes when enough money can be made to cover the deprecation of the lease, and not the full 30 years have to be paid in advance. Tourist police is available 24 hours already, if they are helpfull has to be evaluated on every single case. Every wonder WHY they choose Samui for the introduction? Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 It's quite bold what they are claiming.... """"""""" 2. Why buy VIP when I can legally buy leasehold in Thailand anyway? Yes, you can legally buy leasehold in Thailand for a 30 year period only; this can be extended only after the 30 year term is complete, which is not always guaranteed. With resale of the current lease terms, say Mr. A sells his lease after 15 years to Mr. B, Mr. B will only acquire the remaining 15 years. With VIP you are buying a perpetual lease of 30 years. This means you can renew your lease at any given time and on renewal you get a further 30 years automatically. Also with VIP when MR. A sells his property after 20 years to Mr. B, Mr. B gets a new 30 year lease and not 10 years as with the previous lease hold set-up. 10. If I understand correctly, I would lease the property from VIP for as long as I wish? And what if I want to sell my property, what happens then? Yes, you would lease the property from VIP, but you would have your OWN NAME on the back of the Land Title! And you have that lease forever, so if you wish to sell your property the new buyer gets a new 30 year perpetual lease with its name transferred onto the Land Title. 11. What happens if I pass away? Can I pass the land title on as inheritance? In the unlikely event the buyer passes away, the land title can be transferred to the relevant relative. On transfer of the title a new 30 year lease will be created and names transferred. http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/faq.html LEGAL STRUCTURE here: 1) Legal This will consist of: - The Ministry of Interior (Land Office) Thai government department will register the buyer as a perpetual owner. - The Ministry of Finance It guarantees that the foreigner has invested on the Thai territory. http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/legal-structure.html ABOUT US: Investors will be able to trade with peace of mind and 100% approval from the Government. http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/about-us.html """""""""""""""""""""""""" Hmmm...it's unbelievable and incredible and if this doesn't smell like a scam, what is ? What's amazing to me is, that they can promote this as being the truth without the authorities doing anything about it.... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Jean Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hmmm...it's unbelievable and incredible and if this doesn't smell like a scam, what is ?What's amazing to me is, that they can promote this as being the truth without the authorities doing anything about it.... LaoPo That is why the slogan was 'Amazing Thailand'. It is changed to 'unseen Thailand', so we are probably in for some 'unseen' practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 In the unlikely event the buyer passes away looks like they are offering a measure of immortality too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinnsamui Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 It's just moody sales tactics if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Today I received the following email: (I have no idea how I landed on their mailing list.... To whom it may concern We would like to take this opportunity to inform you of the official Koh Samui launch of the much talked about Vacation Investment Program (VIP) by Thailand Longstay Management (TLM). The event will be held at the Samui Palm Beach Hotel on the 18th November 2006, the event starts at 1.00pm. The official Bangkok Launch of VIP is to be held on the 29th November 2006 at the Ministry of Tourism. The Key people who will be speaking at the Koh Samui Launch are: Mr Ruamnakorn Tabtimtongchai – President of TLM Mr Niwat Sawadkeaw .- Chief of Surrathani Province Mr Chaiykarn Sudampanthorn – CEO of Samui Estate Corporation Representative’s of the Chief of Immigration Officials from the Land Office If you would like to attend this event please send your name and contact details to [email protected] to be added to the guest list. Please note the event will be in Thai, but there is English literature available and English speaking representatives on hand to answer any questions you may have. If you are unable to attend this event, a new company profile explaining VIP and its services will be sent to you via email. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Many Thanks The VIP Team Did anyone else received the same ? They launch this on Samui, PRIOR to the official launch in Bangkok on the 29th (??? ) and they do this in Thai..... Can't they find any Thai speakers to hold the launch in English ? this is their website: http://www.thailongstay.co.th/vip/index2.html LaoPo So this was about as unimpressive as I expected. Only maybe 40 people showed, almost all Thai. They did have a "booklet" in English of which the first 15 pages or so is "face pictures"...various VIP and government officials giving and receiving one "honorable plate" after another....what a joke...but it got better! The presentation was literally hours talking about each picture. Then there was a "Q & A" session but the very few substantive questions received non-substantive responses. The one English speaking representative I spoke to had no clue about the program, even what was in the booklet. They basically will set up a company (99.9% owned by Thialongstay = TLP = their own company = NOT a part of the Thai governement or even affiliated with the Thai goverment though they try oh so hard to create that impression with their picture of "hounorable plates" being handed out) and the client "loans" the money to the company to by the land then the company enters a 30 + 30 and YES + 30 year lease (which is not enforceable in Thai courts anyway). They say they will execute a share pledge agreement as security for the client. But there is not offer to register a mortgage on the land in favor of the client. Also insterestingly, the "perpetual lease" language in not to be found anywhere in the booklet and was not mentioned at the launch, no longer do they appear to offering to give the client a lease "forever" like in their mass ad emails (geeze, are these guys horribly inconsistent and unprofessional?). Anyway, as I say, they are marketing this as if its very secure because they and the program as so well connected and how supported by the government it is. Its all marketing, no substance. They virtually appropriate the services the longstay program offers (which is a rip-off itself if you ask me) as well as such things that the law has and continues to provide to everyone, including foreigners, already as "the security of having your own name on the back of the land title as the leasee"!! Then they throw in patently wrong claims like "you will also have the security in knowing that the title can not be transferred without your permission since you will be the registered leassee." And, they offering all this for very "interesting" fees e.g. if the property's value is between THB 3 M and 5 M, the "service entry fee" is THB 600,000, if the property's value is between THB 8 M and 9 M the fee is THB 1 M, etc. PLUS the client has to pay actual rent of THB 100,000 to 150,000. They are also targeting folks who already have a company and land. In these case the will TLP buy 99.9% of the shares of the company so it can enter the program. The fees in this case a bit lower, not much. I have heard from insiders, that the head of Samui Realeste company that is behind this thinks this is going to "make him." But if the launch is any indication, I think he's WAY off. The general consensus, among the attendees was that this was not the best way for a non-Thai to invest. So they certainly did not succeed in selling it the Thais here. Perhaps the BKK launch at the TAT will have more success but I doubt it. The only shame is that there probably will be some poor souls who actually buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 Thank you Kiiniow. Impressive insight story. I wonder why they held this 'show' in the first place for mainly Thai. Are they trying to find agents or something ? Well, I hope nobody steps in this trick/scam. It would be interesting to learn what Sunbelt Asia think of this and to hear their comments..... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thank you Kiiniow.Impressive insight story. I wonder why they held this 'show' in the first place for mainly Thai. Are they trying to find agents or something ? Well, I hope nobody steps in this trick/scam. It would be interesting to learn what Sunbelt Asia think of this and to hear their comments..... LaoPo LaoPo, Clearly they were trying to get Thais working as/for agents and developers "on board" with their program, so they would pitch it to buying clients. I have to hope that is the main reason they spent all that time showing and talking about pictures of hi so Thais and giving each other "honorable plates" I gather they thought it would so impress the Thai folks present that they would signon immediately. But from what I heard from the ones I talked to afterwards...if that was their goal, they failed miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo551 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 VIP is a private company. Shareholding is 40% TAT and the balance with whom? I presume as a legitimate Thai company it must have seven shareholders. Who are they and what role and financial participation do they have? What is the Capitalisation of the company and is it paid up? Can we be sure that these shareholders are themselves not Nominees. Have they put money into the company and what will they get out of it? Did TAT inject Capital? It is claimed that the VIP programme is 100% supported by the government. I have seen nothing outside of the VIP marketing material to support this. Can some documentation be provided to support this claim? The maximum term for which a lease can be registered is 30 years and that any renewal can only be contractual. The "Perpetual Lease" is therefore (if it exists) only a contract to renew - but would it be enforceable in the Courts? There was a recent Supreme Court judgement enforcing a contractual renewal albeit for only 10 years. It would be useful to see the actual judgement. My concern there would be that after 10 years the original parties to the agreement will still be there whereas after 30 years, and especially after a further 30 years, the original landowner at least is unlikely to be the same. Does the Supreme Court ruling take this into account, or was the judgement easy in that this possibility did not come up? Essentially I do not see that VIP is offering any greater security for a renewal apart from a contractual obligation to do so. The VIP web site states that the Leaseholder will get his name on the back of the Title Deed, implying that as a Leaseholder with another party, this would not happen. This I not correct and is mis-leading. It also states that a 30 year lease can only be renewed for a further period of thirty years after the first thirty years have been completed. Is that really so? Surely with agreement between the parties any lease can be cancelled and a new lease agreed? What I fail to see is any change in the Thai Law which is allowing VIP to do anything differently than before or giving any greater security that currently available. The implication of all this is that VIP can do something no one else can do. If this is the case, where is the legal backing for such a claim and if this is not the case, and they are only doing what another Thai entity can do, then their claims are disingenuous. If you participate in the VIP programme, do you also have to participate in the Thailand Long Stay programme? Capital Cost based on full price of house. Why not just on the land which is the only part a foreigner cannot own? The foreigner can own a house in his own right. Why is this restricted to Koh Samui only? Surely if it is above board and legal it could apply to anywhere in Thailand. Having spoken to various people involved in Real Estate on the island, no oen sees this as anything other than an attempt by one particular agent to scare people into dealing with him. Even some prominent Thais I have spoken to are less than impressed. It may be difficult to label this as a pure scam, but it is certainly disingenuous and misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The VIP Team Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 VIP is a private company. Shareholding is 40% TAT and the balance with whom? I presume as a legitimate Thai company it must have seven shareholders. Who are they and what role and financial participation do they have? What is the Capitalisation of the company and is it paid up? Can we be sure that these shareholders are themselves not Nominees. Have they put money into the company and what will they get out of it? Did TAT inject Capital? It is claimed that the VIP programme is 100% supported by the government. I have seen nothing outside of the VIP marketing material to support this. Can some documentation be provided to support this claim? The maximum term for which a lease can be registered is 30 years and that any renewal can only be contractual. The "Perpetual Lease" is therefore (if it exists) only a contract to renew - but would it be enforceable in the Courts? There was a recent Supreme Court judgement enforcing a contractual renewal albeit for only 10 years. It would be useful to see the actual judgement. My concern there would be that after 10 years the original parties to the agreement will still be there whereas after 30 years, and especially after a further 30 years, the original landowner at least is unlikely to be the same. Does the Supreme Court ruling take this into account, or was the judgement easy in that this possibility did not come up? Essentially I do not see that VIP is offering any greater security for a renewal apart from a contractual obligation to do so. The VIP web site states that the Leaseholder will get his name on the back of the Title Deed, implying that as a Leaseholder with another party, this would not happen. This I not correct and is mis-leading. It also states that a 30 year lease can only be renewed for a further period of thirty years after the first thirty years have been completed. Is that really so? Surely with agreement between the parties any lease can be cancelled and a new lease agreed? What I fail to see is any change in the Thai Law which is allowing VIP to do anything differently than before or giving any greater security that currently available. The implication of all this is that VIP can do something no one else can do. If this is the case, where is the legal backing for such a claim and if this is not the case, and they are only doing what another Thai entity can do, then their claims are disingenuous. If you participate in the VIP programme, do you also have to participate in the Thailand Long Stay programme? Capital Cost based on full price of house. Why not just on the land which is the only part a foreigner cannot own? The foreigner can own a house in his own right. Why is this restricted to Koh Samui only? Surely if it is above board and legal it could apply to anywhere in Thailand. Having spoken to various people involved in Real Estate on the island, no oen sees this as anything other than an attempt by one particular agent to scare people into dealing with him. Even some prominent Thais I have spoken to are less than impressed. It may be difficult to label this as a pure scam, but it is certainly disingenuous and misleading. Extremely well put Jimb551. As I said before, the VIP program is so poorly done, barefit of any legal foundation and pure marketing that no one already in the know or who is smart or lucky enough to check with independ sources in the know would ever consider it....but as you say the VIP program is certainly disigenuous and misleading and thats what really gets me because these these guys will probably get away with scamming more than a few folk who do not get true story until its too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team And sooooo typically inept of the Real Estate Agent, ooopppps eerrr I mean the "VIP Team" behind this they can't even put up a link that works without checking it first!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team And sooooo typically inept of the Real Estate Agent, ooopppps eerrr I mean the "VIP Team" behind this they can't even put up a link that works without checking it first!!! the link the poster is pointing to is currently under discussion by the mods and admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team And sooooo typically inept of the Real Estate Agent, ooopppps eerrr I mean the "VIP Team" behind this they can't even put up a link that works without checking it first!!! the link the poster is pointing to is currently under discussion by the mods and admin. Very good ! The XXX-team registered today... Getting too hot, XXX-team ? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 In the unlikely event the buyer passes away looks like they are offering a measure of immortality too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza1 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team And sooooo typically inept of the Real Estate Agent, ooopppps eerrr I mean the "VIP Team" behind this they can't even put up a link that works without checking it first!!! It's funny you say that. I sit in my office in Bangkok and read all about this VIP and the Real Estate Agent dreaming it up, sorry, marketing it. I posted a topic the other week (which was for some reason taken off this site with no explanation given to me by the mods) titled ASTONISHING EMAIL. It seems this particular agent gets up to all sorts. This email was sent all around Suratthani stating that if anyone employed one of their staff they would be fined 1million THB. I was passed it by a friend on Samui who advises any of their clients to stay well away from the agent and VIP. How can they get away with such tactics? How can they hold an opening with no substance? How can i attend this Bangkok opening? I can report all back to all interested parties. In addition i have an excellent IT guy who (god knows how) believes all the VIP websites are actually designed on Samui and so suggests its all coming from the mouths and pockets of the agent. Strange strange island my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiiniow Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Please refer to the new forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=93817 Many Thanks The VIP Team And sooooo typically inept of the Real Estate Agent, ooopppps eerrr I mean the "VIP Team" behind this they can't even put up a link that works without checking it first!!! It's funny you say that. I sit in my office in Bangkok and read all about this VIP and the Real Estate Agent dreaming it up, sorry, marketing it. I posted a topic the other week (which was for some reason taken off this site with no explanation given to me by the mods) titled ASTONISHING EMAIL. It seems this particular agent gets up to all sorts. This email was sent all around Suratthani stating that if anyone employed one of their staff they would be fined 1million THB. I was passed it by a friend on Samui who advises any of their clients to stay well away from the agent and VIP. How can they get away with such tactics? How can they hold an opening with no substance? How can i attend this Bangkok opening? I can report all back to all interested parties. In addition i have an excellent IT guy who (god knows how) believes all the VIP websites are actually designed on Samui and so suggests its all coming from the mouths and pockets of the agent. Strange strange island my friends. Yes Gazza1, I agree and can confirm from folks actually working for this particular agent that your IT is correct! AMAZING too that they are actually stupid enough to market as a way for foreigners to "OWN" property here!!!...they may be connected here on Samui, in the right pockets, have some THB....but so did Thaksin!...can not wait to see these guys go down too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excite Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 VIP is a private company. Shareholding is 40% TAT and the balance with whom? I presume as a legitimate Thai company it must have seven shareholders. Who are they and what role and financial participation do they have? What is the Capitalisation of the company and is it paid up? Can we be sure that these shareholders are themselves not Nominees. Have they put money into the company and what will they get out of it? Did TAT inject Capital? It is claimed that the VIP programme is 100% supported by the government. I have seen nothing outside of the VIP marketing material to support this. Can some documentation be provided to support this claim? The maximum term for which a lease can be registered is 30 years and that any renewal can only be contractual. The "Perpetual Lease" is therefore (if it exists) only a contract to renew - but would it be enforceable in the Courts? There was a recent Supreme Court judgement enforcing a contractual renewal albeit for only 10 years. It would be useful to see the actual judgement. My concern there would be that after 10 years the original parties to the agreement will still be there whereas after 30 years, and especially after a further 30 years, the original landowner at least is unlikely to be the same. Does the Supreme Court ruling take this into account, or was the judgement easy in that this possibility did not come up? Essentially I do not see that VIP is offering any greater security for a renewal apart from a contractual obligation to do so. The VIP web site states that the Leaseholder will get his name on the back of the Title Deed, implying that as a Leaseholder with another party, this would not happen. This I not correct and is mis-leading. It also states that a 30 year lease can only be renewed for a further period of thirty years after the first thirty years have been completed. Is that really so? Surely with agreement between the parties any lease can be cancelled and a new lease agreed? What I fail to see is any change in the Thai Law which is allowing VIP to do anything differently than before or giving any greater security that currently available. The implication of all this is that VIP can do something no one else can do. If this is the case, where is the legal backing for such a claim and if this is not the case, and they are only doing what another Thai entity can do, then their claims are disingenuous. If you participate in the VIP programme, do you also have to participate in the Thailand Long Stay programme? Capital Cost based on full price of house. Why not just on the land which is the only part a foreigner cannot own? The foreigner can own a house in his own right. Why is this restricted to Koh Samui only? Surely if it is above board and legal it could apply to anywhere in Thailand. Having spoken to various people involved in Real Estate on the island, no oen sees this as anything other than an attempt by one particular agent to scare people into dealing with him. Even some prominent Thais I have spoken to are less than impressed. Spot on Jimbo It may be difficult to label this as a pure scam, but it is certainly disingenuous and misleading I do however think you are being too kind to this guy Excite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchoutfarang Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 These agents are a shower of cowboys and I would not believe anything that comes out of their mouths. I have had presonal dealings with a number of the agents who work for this org and they are indoctrinated with bs from the top down. This VIP Program holds no substance and I strongly warn anyone signing up to it to do more investigation. The previous posters have made it clear toone and all that this is little more than a marketing scam in much better rhetoric than I can muster up, but lets just say they managed to sweet talk me - anewbie- out of a few grand. You live and learn Best wishes Watchoutfarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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