Multiple Israeli air strikes hit Gaza Strip after Palestinian rocket attack

[Credo]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Typical unbalanced OTT response from Israel. What's the matter? Not been in the news enough recently?

 

A more mature response would have been to just ignore the rockets. 

Most countries don't even ignore rockets fired in their general direction.   Japan and South Korea get quite concerned with N. Korean rockets, for example.   

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Pakboong said:

I am not an attorney but I do understand quite a bit about clandestine activities and any lawyer would tell you to look first at Cui Bono( who benefits) and you have a piece of sh-t rocket that lands haplessly in the desert and 30 F16 responding airstrikes. Try to figure who derives anything from those events. You do understand do you not that the Israelis are among the most competent at infiltration of their enemies. If you know anything, you know the Israeli's are handling agents in Gaza. I don't know and don't really care who fired the rocket. I only know that it would be hard to miss a town 840 meters from the wall and a couple of Km wide and a couple of Km deep.

 

The Palestinians are not the sharpest people on the planet but their stupidity is seriously over used.

 

"I don''t know and don't really care who fired the rocket"

 

Exactly. You simply ignore power struggles, politics and other rivalries within the Gaza Strip. 

This doesn't even pass your own Cui Bono test. 

Not all players operate along the same lines of reasoning. Not all share the same priorities, goals and values.

 

" I only know that it would be hard to miss a town 840 meters from the wall and a couple of Km wide and a couple of Km deep."

 

The rocket did not miss.

 

" The Palestinians are not the sharpest people on the planet but their stupidity is seriously over used. "

 

Would this herald the IQ phase of your usual conspiracy theory?

 

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Pakboong said:

Simply look at who benefits and it may come to you. If I am not buying what you are selling, does that make me an anti-semite? And I harbor no anger toward you personally, you are in the majority position here and lord knows I am in the minority. I have never bought into the rocket business and likely never will. It has never made sense to me the way it is described in the press and if it does make sense to you, I am happy for you.

 

" If I am not buying what you are selling, does that make me an anti-semite? "

 

Not that anyone called you an anti-semite, but if memory serves you pretty much self described yourself as such on past topics. That is, if anyone really needed it spelled out.

 

[Ulysses G.]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

" If I am not buying what you are selling, does that make me an anti-semite? "

 

Not that anyone called you an anti-semite, but if memory serves you pretty much self described yourself as such on past topics. That is, if anyone really needed it spelled out.

 

 

You certainly have a way with words AND a great memory.

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Pakboong said:

If 11th century catapaults could hit a fortified castle 500 yards away, why is it a 21st century rocket can't hit a town that is 840 meters away and more than 2 km square in size? I know everyone will be tempted to say that the Palestinians are not as smart as those 11th century warriors. I can't buy that and never will. It points me at the line from as good "As it gets,"

"Lady you are going to have to peddle your crazy somewhere else, we are all stocked up here."

 

The rocket did not miss.

 

Rockets are not usually fired at targets 840 meters away, that's more of a mortar thing. Most rocket launches were carried out from location further within the Gaza Strip. Numerous mortar attacks were carried out on Israeli civilians living near the border.

 

Why bother with truth when you can repeat lies, eh?

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I didn't quote you out of context at all - as I wrote, you have a tendency to write in absolutes, and with an issue so contentious and convoluted, clarity is essential.

 

A "tendency to post in absolutes"? Seriously? The usual criticism I receive on this forum is for not possessing black and white views on the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

21 hours ago, Morch said:

 

This topic is about a rocket attack launched from the Gaza Strip. There are no Israeli troops, no requirements for Israeli building permits, no illegal Israeli settlements and no ongoing land "theft".

 

Those finding Israeli politicians unsavory would do well to have a clue as to what their Palestinian counterparts are like. Same same.

 

But do carry on about "nonsense", rather than addressing the  OP....

I bet you don't read the news carefully...land stealing happens on daily basis as well as other Israel Army abuses... juste type Israel gaza or Israel settlement in google news... 

Linking the violences from Gaza to the abuses of Israel is quite linked to the OP

 

[NativeSon360]

On 8/23/2016 at 5:35 AM, Ulysses G. said:

"Hamas positions have been targeted after a Palestinian rocket attack hit an Israeli border town."

 

When will the Palestinians ever learn? They elected terrorists to govern them and this is what they get. Israel will never let them get away with shooting rockets at civilian targets and the Palestinians will never win militarily.

 

They cause their own problems as usual.

 

I do not believe Hamas, or the average Palestinian is quite that stupid. Based upon my personal experiences, in dealing with average Palestinian male "mentality", I really do not care for them. A real bunch of trouble-makers, the (Muslim, not Coptic Christian) Palestinians are.

 

However, taking an honest look @ the flip-side of that coin, I would look @ the Israeli intentions, and, their propaganda-tactics machine more closely.

Edited August 24, 2016 by NativeSon360

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Typical unbalanced OTT response from Israel. What's the matter? Not been in the news enough recently?

 

A more mature response would have been to just ignore the rockets. 

 

I think the initial attack and the Israeli response are fully thought out - both sides' leaders have a vested interest in keeping the conflict going, and both are more than happy to exacerbate the situation across the region.

No ordinary person wants to live in the prison-like conditions that Israel impose upon the Palestinians, nor the constant fear of rocket attacks and suicide bombers that the ordinary Israelis endure.  But peace doesn't generate dollars or confer power.

[NativeSon360]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think the initial attack and the Israeli response are fully thought out - both sides' leaders have a vested interest in keeping the conflict going, and both are more than happy to exacerbate the situation across the region.

No ordinary person wants to live in the prison-like conditions that Israel impose upon the Palestinians, nor the constant fear of rocket attacks and suicide bombers that the ordinary Israelis endure.  But peace doesn't generate dollars or confer power.

Ditto! Well-stated. Thanks for sharing.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, GeorgesAbitbol said:

I bet you don't read the news carefully...land stealing happens on daily basis as well as other Israel Army abuses... juste type Israel gaza or Israel settlement in google news... 

Linking the violences from Gaza to the abuses of Israel is quite linked to the OP

 

 

I'm probably more abreast with relevant news than most posters. It would seem the one who doesn't read carefully is yourself - there is no land "theft" occurring in the Gaza Strip, there are no Israeli troops present within the Gaza Strip, there are no house razing in the Gaza Strip. All of these occur in the West Bank. There are, however, no rockets launched from the West Bank.

 

Repeating all the wrongs of the Israeli occupation as causes for the attack at hand, is simply a cop out by uninformed posters, who do know much about the dynamics of Palestinian society in general and the politics of the Gaza Strip in particular.

 

 

 

 

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm probably more abreast with relevant news than most posters. It would seem the one who doesn't read carefully is yourself - there is no land "theft" occurring in the Gaza Strip, there are no Israeli troops present within the Gaza Strip, there are no house razing in the Gaza Strip. All of these occur in the West Bank. There are, however, no rockets launched from the West Bank.

 

Repeating all the wrongs of the Israeli occupation as causes for the attack at hand, is simply a cop out by uninformed posters, who do know much about the dynamics of Palestinian society in general and the politics of the Gaza Strip in particular.

 

 

 

 

 

If I was Religious I would have said that you have the patience of a Saint.

 

The work that you do here with the underprivileged, trying to drag up their education levels is outstanding.

 

I doff my cap 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think the initial attack and the Israeli response are fully thought out - both sides' leaders have a vested interest in keeping the conflict going, and both are more than happy to exacerbate the situation across the region.

No ordinary person wants to live in the prison-like conditions that Israel impose upon the Palestinians, nor the constant fear of rocket attacks and suicide bombers that the ordinary Israelis endure.  But peace doesn't generate dollars or confer power.

 

The rocket was not launched by Hamas. Which Palestinian leadership does it represent, then? Which "vested interest" is manifested? As a pointer - initial reports alleged an IS affiliated outfit was responsible. Later on, elements of the PFLP claimed credit. Neither fits the musings above.

 

The Israeli response is the standard fare. Targeting Hamas, the self proclaimed sovereign force, while trying to avoid casualties and conflagration. Most of the targets hit, by the way. are more to do with Hamas outposts and installations near the border. In that sense, the Israelis are taking advantage of the situation to roll back some of the post-2014 Hamas build up.

 

Peace does not generate dollars? Prosperity following a peace agreement usually features as a selling point in certain poster's visions.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Morch

[Pakboong]

Morch, good to have your back. I honestly miss your discourse despite the fact that we will never agree. Anybody could have fired that rocket but only Israeli pilots flew those response attacks.

 

Just for my own information, and I know you are quite knowledgeable on this subject, to the nearest 10 or so, how many agents of Israel actually live and work in Gaza.  And if you would like to hazard a guess on how many informants each handles that would be great also. Your guess should be fairly accurate.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Pakboong

[Thorgal]

12 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Iron Dome is only used when its radar determines that the target constitutes a threat to a designated area. No sense in wasting Tamir interceptor missiles.

 

Average success or hit rate of the Iron Dome Tamir missiles is 5% and in some cases even below.

 

Has been proven during 2012 and 2014 conflicts. For 2016 it's a 0% efficiency...

[Thorgal]

12 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It was reported that there was no Iron Dome battery deployed in the area at the time of the attack. There's one deployed nearby now.

There were questions raised (at least by media, local civilians) regarding the IDF's operational policy. The IDF cited risk management, costs, maintenance and training as reasons for the above.

 

 

 

Please read my previous post.

 

It's always interesting if you can provide a link of your sources. A credible non zionist news outlet would be highly appreciated...

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

Peace does not generate dollars? Prosperity following a peace agreement usually features as a selling point in certain poster's visions.

 

And of course they are correct, but that is a democratic prosperity that is being referred to. As many are at pains to point out on TV, the various Palestinian leaders are well insulated from the daily privations of the average Joe; similarly, Bibi's wife would need to switch to a cheaper brand of ice cream if she was not able to live off the US taxpayer.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Pakboong said:

Morch, good to have your back. I honestly miss your discourse despite the fact that we will never agree. Anybody could have fired that rocket but only Israeli pilots flew those response attacks.

 

Just for my own information, and I know you are quite knowledgeable on this subject, to the nearest 10 or so, how many agents of Israel actually live and work in Gaza.  And if you would like to hazard a guess on how many informants each handles that would be great also. Your guess should be fairly accurate.

 

" Anybody could have fired that rocket "

 

No, not anybody. It was definitely a Palestinian who did. That is, if one does not subscribe to your conspiracy theory.

 

As for the other nonsense, you are the one claiming certainty. How's about providing some support other than asking to take your word for it?  Even if I would have access to such up to date information, what in your "professional background" leads you to imagine it would be shared on the forum?

 

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Please read my previous post.

 

It's always interesting if you can provide a link of your sources. A credible non zionist news outlet would be highly appreciated...

 

You mean the post where you claim outlandish figures without any credible link?

The Iron Dome deployment issue, public queries and response was mainly covered by Israeli media outlets. Being the source policemen that you are, guess even a MSM link would entail nonsense about its connections to Zionism.

 

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And of course they are correct, but that is a democratic prosperity that is being referred to. As many are at pains to point out on TV, the various Palestinian leaders are well insulated from the daily privations of the average Joe; similarly, Bibi's wife would need to switch to a cheaper brand of ice cream if she was not able to live off the US taxpayer.

 

So you basically dodged the issue of demonstrating how this Palestinian attack and Israeli response (as in the the OP) represent leadership interests on both sides. Expected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steely Dan]

34 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Average success or hit rate of the Iron Dome Tamir missiles is 5% and in some cases even below.

 

Has been proven during 2012 and 2014 conflicts. For 2016 it's a 0% efficiency...

I guess that's why GCC nations are queuing up to buy Iron dome.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/gulf-states-set-to-buy-iron-dome-system-10343257

 

I guess Hasbara have taken over Sky news as well.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Steely Dan
P.s

[Pakboong]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

" Anybody could have fired that rocket "

 

No, not anybody. It was definitely a Palestinian who did. That is, if one does not subscribe to your conspiracy theory.

 

As for the other nonsense, you are the one claiming certainty. How's about providing some support other than asking to take your word for it?  Even if I would have access to such up to date information, what in your "professional background" leads you to imagine it would be shared on the forum?

 

 

You seem to be quite certain of various things. I have no reason to challenge them. My professional history is something that I should never have mentioned, it has no meaning here and I apologize for suggesting that it does. If I spelled it out, you wouldn't believe it anyway so there really is no point.

 

Do you think the IDF incapable of running clandestine operations within Gaza? You are suggesting that you believe they do not and cannot. I am certain that they can and do.  I am as certain that they are as you seem to be certain that they are not. Simple really.  If they can run them anywhere in the world, and they do, they could certainly run them next door. You do know how many move through those tunnels each day and work in Israel?

[SgtRock]

10 minutes ago, Pakboong said:

You seem to be quite certain of various things. I have no reason to challenge them. My professional history is something that I should never have mentioned, it has no meaning here and I apologize for suggesting that it does. If I spelled it out, you wouldn't believe it anyway so there really is no point.

 

Do you think the IDF incapable of running clandestine operations within Gaza? You are suggesting that you believe they do not and cannot. I am certain that they can and do.  I am as certain that they are as you seem to be certain that they are not. Simple really.  If they can run them anywhere in the world, and they do, they could certainly run them next door. You do know how many move through those tunnels each day and work in Israel?

 

Most Agencies have the ability to run operations at home or abroad. You appear to have a driving desire to glean as much information as you can about this.

 

I would even go as far as saying an unhealthy desire to glean information.

 

You made such a song and dance about your professional background and now you backtrack. Some might even go as far as to say that you are asking questions that should not be getting asked on a public forum.

 

I would suggest you should change your tact.

[Morch]

Just now, Pakboong said:

You seem to be quite certain of various things. I have no reason to challenge them. My professional history is something that I should never have mentioned, it has no meaning here and I apologize for suggesting that it does. If I spelled it out, you wouldn't believe it anyway so there really is no point.

 

Do you think the IDF incapable of running clandestine operations within Gaza? You are suggesting that you believe they do not and cannot. I am certain that they can and do.  I am as certain that they are as you seem to be certain that they are not. Simple really.  If they can run them anywhere in the world, and they do, they could certainly run them next door. You do know how many move through those tunnels each day and work in Israel?

 

IMO, most individuals with relevant professional background would probably not mention their credentials on TVF.

 

Never did I claim that Israel does not run clandestine operations in the Gaza Strip. Nor did I suggest it cannot.

What I find fanciful is the scope alluded to (with regard to HUMINT, that is, not intelligence operations in general). There is no way this could be carried out long term, without multiple sources being regularly burned. Suggesting otherwise hints more of conspiracy theory thinking and less of professional experience (or plain common sense).

 

IMO, the assumed prowess of Israeli intelligence agencies is somewhat inflated. This obviously serves Israel, but also those who wish to portray Israel as more threatening than it is. And of course, helps the logic of nonsense posts as seen on this topic.

 

" You do know how many move through those tunnels each day and work in Israel? "

 

I'm sure you'll supply me with that information. Have no idea what you're on about. Most Palestinians who work illegally in Israel come from the West Bank.

 

 

[Pakboong]

It is too bad that we just can't disagree and let it go at that. I harbor no anger here with anyone with whom I disagree. I am as certain of my statements as you are of yours. Picking out a few words in order to discredit the poster and his point is a common tactic which I do not have a reason to do. I do however, know why it is done.

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

You have had it answered many times. If you do not wish to accept the answer that is your prerogative, but do not ever claim that the question has not been answered.

 

 

Once again here is the answer. The simple answer that you demand.

 

As has been previously and painstaking pointed out to you on numerous occasions. None of your above quote happens in the Gaza Strip which is directly referring to the OP and the launch site for the rockets in the OP.

 

Now you tell me how firing rockets at civilians over a border is defending your land, your house and your family ?

 

My definition of defence is when someone is on my land I will use every action necessary to get rid of, or kill them. Nowhere in my definition of defence is lobbing rockets over a border that may kill innocent people included.

 

I will go out on a limb here and guess that you cannot see too clearly. So this post will go straight over your head

 

 

 

thanks for the answer. it is not answered properly but you came close. Please look at the overall picture not only Gaza Strip or whatever.

dont forget, you said you do whatever necessary and you can even kill them to protect your land, family and future.

and i am sure that includes firing shots at those criminals when you see them coming with guns even if they are not in your land or firing shots to the camp of the criminals established on the land stolen from you. 

so if you shoot at them while they are coming or while they are camped on your land, do you count as terrorist? or just as someone trying to defend his land, family and future? according to your answer, you count as someone just trying to protect your land, family and future, same as Palestinians.

 

lets apply this to the bloody Palestinian - Israel conflict:

as long as Israel is in Palestinian land, constantly occupying land illegally and inserting jewish settlers on others' land, they have the right to send a rocket to an Israeli town hundreds of meters away from the border and most probably, that israeli town is founded on the land stolen from Palestinians. lets say they do whatever necessary like you will do at such situation, this might include firing a rocket to prevent some attacks or to instill fear to criminals.

same as you fire some shots to the criminals. 

 

so how come Palestinians are terrorists and Israelis lawful? c'mon! it is actually vice versa.

[HappyDazed]

Radical Judaism...

[GeorgesAbitbol]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I'm probably more abreast with relevant news than most posters. It would seem the one who doesn't read carefully is yourself - there is no land "theft" occurring in the Gaza Strip, there are no Israeli troops present within the Gaza Strip, there are no house razing in the Gaza Strip. All of these occur in the West Bank. There are, however, no rockets launched from the West Bank.

 

Repeating all the wrongs of the Israeli occupation as causes for the attack at hand, is simply a cop out by uninformed posters, who do know much about the dynamics of Palestinian society in general and the politics of the Gaza Strip in particular.

 

 

 

 

Well for someone quite aware you seem to forget my previous quote : iIsrael destroyed since january 2016, $3 millions of infrastructures paid by UE, 

Settlements :

August 22  :  Israeli authorities on Monday confirmed that they have begun the process of expanding an Israeli settlement in Hebron, a West Bank city that has been the focus of nearly a year of violence. http://www.heraldonline.com/news/nation-world/world/article97095527.html

 

House razing :  In the Aug. 4 report, OCHA cited 684 buildings as having been demolished so far this year in the West Bank,
 http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/08/israel-destroys-palestinian-houses-west-bank-annexation.html#ixzz4IEMRd3qN

JERUSALEM, Aug. 12 (Xinhua) -- Israel has demolished 20 Palestinian homes in the West Bank since the beginning of August

 

Maybe you should stop being informed by Israeli news only 

 

Read more here: http://www.heraldonline.com/news/nation-world/world/article97095527.html#storylink=cpy

[GeorgesAbitbol]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

If I was Religious I would have said that you have the patience of a Saint.

 

The work that you do here with the underprivileged, trying to drag up their education levels is outstanding.

 

I doff my cap 

It is well known the military education and impartiality level is close to Mariana Trench sea bed...Sergeant

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

The rocket was not launched by Hamas. Which Palestinian leadership does it represent, then? Which "vested interest" is manifested? As a pointer - initial reports alleged an IS affiliated outfit was responsible. Later on, elements of the PFLP claimed credit. Neither fits the musings above.

 

The Israeli response is the standard fare. Targeting Hamas, the self proclaimed sovereign force, while trying to avoid casualties and conflagration. Most of the targets hit, by the way. are more to do with Hamas outposts and installations near the border. In that sense, the Israelis are taking advantage of the situation to roll back some of the post-2014 Hamas build up.

 

Peace does not generate dollars? Prosperity following a peace agreement usually features as a selling point in certain poster's visions.

Not sure what you're saying here.

 

You say the rockets weren't launched by Hamas, but the response was the Israeli "standard fare" (that you then went on to justify as "while trying to avoid casualties and conflagration").  Not sure why you had to add the 'justification'?

 

Ultimately, until the leaders on both sides start both 'talking and walking' peace and a fair deal - and the population can see that this is the case - then nothing will change and the 'war' will continue.