Paris restaurant 'refuses to serve Muslim women'

[Sphere]

'Muslim' is not a race.

[7by7]

Neither is Judaism; but anti Semitics are regularly accused, rightly, of racism.

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, rijit said:

This post got 21 'likes' and I bet everyone of them will absolutely deny being a 'racist'.

 

9 minutes ago, Sphere said:

'Muslim' is not a race.

Let me take the liberty of slightly amending what rijit wrote:  This post got 21 '"ikes" and I bet everyone of them will absolutely deny being a bigot.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. 

[ilostmypassword]

56 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

The ladies were completely in a hijab. Sorry, I donot like the company of a person showing so clearly they do NOT like my presence. I will never enter a restaurant, bar etc with persons dressed like that. How whould THEY like it, when others had the same face etc covering masks ? At least... I would not enter .

"The ladies were completely in a hijab"  Such ignorance.

First off, do a google search of images of a hijab. It's clearly not what you think it is.

Second, by law, people in France are not allowed to hide their face.

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Neither is Judaism; but anti Semitics are regularly accused, rightly, of racism.

The use of the word "racism" in Europe is quite different from the way it has been used in the USA.  And it's interesting you bring up anti-semitism. Since Saudi Arabians are semites, I guess that means that they can't be "anti-semites" Which is, of course, absurd.

[stander]

12 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Let me take the liberty of slightly amending what rijit wrote:  This post got 21 '"ikes" and I bet everyone of them will absolutely deny being a bigot.

If the likes of you class me as a bigot for my disdain for Islam, then I wear that badge with pride.

[kannot]

2 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

I am not open to peoples two cents worth who do not know what they are talking about.  The history is clear, he led the people against repression and persecution, you heard he was a warmonger from some Islamophobe, liked that as it suited your agenda, and now in your mind I am not "open", pretty sad stuff.  The case of how old Aisha was when they were betrothed to be married is often debated, you hang on to one Mullahs idea, and in doing so ignore the very laws that Muhammad wrote, it makes no sense and the truth is there is no way from the Quran to put a more specific age on her than between 5 and 19, no one knows but in your quick to close mind because one Mullah once said she was 9 then he must of been a pedo, disregarding that his first wife was 40 and his second was 55 and disregarding that Aisha had already been betrothed to be married before him, I very much doubt she was 9 and many scholars have estimated her age between 15 and 17.  Well, if it makes you happy to be an unread ignorant blind follower....

youre  right it  ALL makes  no sense.............any religion pure fantasy.

But just to even things up how about this

 

In March 2014, the Saudi interior ministry issued a royal decree branding all atheistsas terrorists, which defines terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based."

Edited August 29, 2016 by kannot

[Shawn0000]

9 minutes ago, kannot said:

youre  right it  ALL makes  no sense.............any religion pure fantasy.

 

The modern religions, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc, do not have to have stories within them that actually happened to make sense, they are philosophies, their scriptures intended to be read allegorically, the notion that philosophy can be fantasy is completely nonsensical.

[Shawn0000]

20 minutes ago, stander said:

If the likes of you class me as a bigot for my disdain for Islam, then I wear that badge with pride.

 

It is your willingness to generalize on Islam based on the poor actions of some Muslims, actions that are condemned by the majority of Muslims, that makes you a bigot, and that is nothing to be proud of.

[Zendo]

47 minutes ago, thaihome said:

Racism  must be a recent phenomenon in France as it was a well known refuge for American blacks escaping the racist jim crowe laws in the US of the late 19th and early 20th century. 

 

What happened? 

TH 

 

Nothing much than bad economy, so it's strangers fault.. logic, isn't it ?

 

Also when you think what makes your identity is bread, cheese and wine ... it will not go far !

Wwhat people outside France believe France is.. is not ! not everybody are intellectuals there... most of them are very racists.. and many of them are sons or little sons of immigrants.. like some italians I know who think themselves more French than French people themselves.

 

And to tell you the truth... islamic progression in France is seen as a problem by many people even not racists one, before north african didn't show much in public this kind of behavior, instead women felt free to take off all the costumes, we could only see old "fatma" wearing costumes.. younger were hot and available... as long as you encounter their brothers, that hurts !

Now many brothers are wearing beard, talking about purity.. and women follow the fashion.. they are very much into fashion these days ^^ modern women i guess !

 

People who are not racists but who has been fighting against catholics supremacy for years cannot tolerate such a regression in the society... showing constantly religious artefacts is stupid, it only can leads to problems in a place where "yes you are allowed to do so", but where many local people feel bad about about it.. intelligence of "bien vivre ensemble" should do it by itself if people don't go to the provocative way, but lack of intelligence in both camp will lead to bad things.. next election will be won by right side... if not extreme right side and people will get what they are asking for  : a change in laws to forbid liberty of expression to any religion on public places... there will be a lot of work for new "police costume" officers, that will also change the "non working people" numbers really quickly.. politic magic trick !

 

Much violence is to come.. that's for sure !

[oxo1947]

2 hours ago, nottocus said:

Good on him. Probably saved a few lives with his decision too.

.

Probably saved a few lives with his decision too.

 

Was his food that bad.............

.

Do you get the feeling that this thread may even beat the Brexit thread in longevity.......& not only that---but when its all over & finished, not one person would have changed their view from the mind set they had at the beginning.

[Zendo]

1 minute ago, oxo1947 said:

.

Probably saved a few lives with his decision too.

 

Was his food that bad.............

.

Do you get the feeling that this thread may even beat the Brexit thread in longevity.......& not only that---but when its all over & finished, not one person would have changed their view from the mind set they had at the beginning.

 

right.. people don't change their mind by talking on a forum... they enjoy trolling instead, that can be fun too by the way :

 

Is food was bad, maybe, the fact is that he serves pork to eat, so he tried to help this women not going to hell.. he should be seen as a nice guy.. no.. i am wrong or what ?

[Seraphina]

7 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What is truly bizarre though is that lots of the posters who condemned the women wearing burkinis to the beach did so on the grounds that these women had violated the law.  Now that someone apparently violated the law in refusing to serve these women, they have apparently become recruits to the righteousness of civil disobedience.

 

In the UK, all commercial property owners, including office buildings, have the right to refuse entry to anyone except the police on official business and all Customs and Excise personnel. I live in France and this rule is absolute. I'm therefore not convinced that the resto owner has contravened any French law - modern or historic. However, I would certainly put him forward to win the stupid competition for drawing attention to himself.

 

He could simply have told the ladies, "We're closing in ten minutes" and that would have been the end of the matter. I have been turned away from restaurants at 2pm because the chef had knocked off at 1pm...I've been turned away from French hairdressers because my haircut would have taken the hairdresser past midday and 5 minutes into his lunch hour...

 

This is a big fuss about nothing!

 

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, Zendo said:

 

Is food was bad, maybe, the fact is that he serves pork to eat, so he tried to help this women not going to hell.. he should be seen as a nice guy.. no.. i am wrong or what ?

 

In the video the women are speaking French with French accents; so I'm sure they are capable of reading the menu and choosing something which meets their dietary requirements.

 

[JHolmesJr]

4 minutes ago, Seraphina said:

 

....not convinced that the resto owner has contravened any French law - modern or historic. However, I would certainly put him forward to win the stupid competition for drawing attention to himself.

 

He could simply have told the ladies, "We're closing in ten minutes" and that would have been the end of the matter. I have been turned away from restaurants at 2pm because the chef had knocked off at 1pm...I've been turned away from French hairdressers because my haircut would have taken the hairdresser past midday and 5 minutes into his lunch hour...

 

This is a big fuss about nothing!

 

 

Probably.....but a frenchman who does not speak his mind is not a frenchman. 

[NeilSA1]

The owner need only advertise "Non Halaal"  food served here. Offer a few more pork courses.

[Galactus]

 

 

2 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

I see you have " which came first, the chicken or the egg" mixed up again

 

sure it is me and not you?

 

2 hours ago, Zendo said:

 

 

LOL.. Calm down my friend.. France is France and is not going to change soon... it goes very slow, just that you didn't know it well before, in 1998 French almost elected Jean Marie Le Pen as a president, that's why even people from left side voted for Jacques Chirac... anyway, wake up : France is full of racists since ever !! It's not gonna change and seeing muslims behaving like this in their home sweet home, there will be problem for sure, politician are playing a lot with this right now.. specially right side and extreme right side who promiss to change the law according to religious costumes and jewels in public places... sounds bad but so predictible !

 

i am sure german people were saying the same when it was 1935. wake up  bro. such actions are the footsteps of hitler like sentiments and actions.

lots of racist attacks for jews, gays and dont forget what happened to gypsies recently.

if you are a proud french, you should fight bigotry and racism.

 

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

argumentum ad populum -- This fallacy occurs when an argument panders to popular passion or sentiment. When, for instance, a politician exclaims in a debate that his opponent "is out of step with the beliefs of everyone in the audience," he/she is committing the fallacy. The legitimacy of a statement depends not on its popularity, but on its truth credentials. ["...and wil they try to kill them like Hitler?"]

 

 

argumentum ad hominem ("argument against the person") --  A common fallacy in which someone argues against a position or claim by assailing the proponent of it. The truth or falsehood of a position doesn't depend on who does (or doesn't) espouse it. e.g. "You can't trust Jones' theory of electromagnetic particles because he's a communist." (The theory is good or bad because it comports (or doesn't comport) with certain facts and evidence, not because the man propounding it holds a political affiliation.) ["'...of such bigots refusing someone..."]

 

your post can count as argumentum ad populum and argumentum ad hominem. therefore stultiloquentia.

 

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Yeah...right on...that seems like a reasonable and fair response to not being allowed inside a guys restaurant...blow it up and blow up a bunch of patrons at the same time.

 

Good thinking.

 

you think the same as that racist restaurant owner.

they wear what muslim wear so they can blow my shop! like every muslim in this world goes around with suicide vests and blow people. we call thus prejudice,  bigotry and racism or a combination of both.

 

 

[Shawn0000]

11 minutes ago, Seraphina said:

 

In the UK, all commercial property owners, including office buildings, have the right to refuse entry to anyone except the police on official business and all Customs and Excise personnel. I live in France and this rule is absolute. I'm therefore not convinced that the resto owner has contravened any French law - modern or historic. However, I would certainly put him forward to win the stupid competition for drawing attention to himself.

 

He could simply have told the ladies, "We're closing in ten minutes" and that would have been the end of the matter. I have been turned away from restaurants at 2pm because the chef had knocked off at 1pm...I've been turned away from French hairdressers because my haircut would have taken the hairdresser past midday and 5 minutes into his lunch hour...

 

This is a big fuss about nothing!

 

 

So you are saying that if they had of lied then they would not have been breaking the law?  Well, it is against the law to discriminate based on religion, that trumps the right to refuse service common law, and they didn't lie so it is clear that they were breaking the law, not that they wouldn't have been if they had of lied it just wouldn't have been so clear.

 

[Seraphina]

7 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Probably.....but a frenchman who does not speak his mind is not a frenchman. 

 

Very true! All talk and no trousers.

 

It all went downhill after Napolean in my view.

[7by7]

13 minutes ago, Seraphina said:

 

In the UK, all commercial property owners, including office buildings, have the right to refuse entry to anyone except the police on official business and all Customs and Excise personnel.

 

 

A pub, bar or restaurant is not the same as a commercial office building. Even so, a pub, bar or restaurant in the UK does have the right to refuse entry or service; except

Quote

4) It is unlawful to discriminate in providing goods or services to the public on grounds of sex, race, disability, gender, sexual orientation and religion or belief. (source)

 

I suspect that it is the same in France; unless someone can prove otherwise.

 

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

 

 

sure it is me and not you?

 

 

i am sure german people were saying the same when it was 1935. wake up  bro. such actions are the footsteps of hitler like sentiments and actions.

lots of racist attacks for jews, gays and dont forget what happened to gypsies recently.

if you are a proud french, you should fight bigotry and racism.

 

 

your post can count as argumentum ad populum and argumentum ad hominem. therefore stultiloquentia.

 

 

you think the same as that racist restaurant owner.

they wear what muslim wear so they can blow my shop! like every muslim in this world goes around with suicide vests and blow people. we call thus prejudice,  bigotry and racism or a combination of both.

 

 

 

Galactus, I am hoping that English is not your primary language because you have thoroughly misunderstood what I have said to the point that I am not even sure you are rational.

 

try to relax about it and have a good night..

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

I predict pork will enjoy a renaissance in many french restaurants after this incident. 

[Seraphina]

1 minute ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

So you are saying that if they had of lied then they would not have been breaking the law?  Well, it is against the law to discriminate based on religion, that trumps the right to refuse service common law, and they didn't lie so it is clear that they were breaking the law, not that they wouldn't have been if they had of lied it just wouldn't have been so clear.

 

 

You sound very bigoted, my dear. How do you KNOW that he refused them because they were Muslim. He could have refused them because they were WOMEN, or because he's superstitious about the colour BLACK.... How very narrow-minded and presumptious you are!

 

How do I know that the times when I was turned away wasn't because I'm ASIAN? Who cares? I took my business elsewhere.

 

Don't sweat things you can't change! And ask for your money back from your therapist! 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.  

[Seraphina]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

A pub, bar or restaurant is not the same as a commercial office building. Even so, a pub, bar or restaurant in the UK does have the right to refuse entry or service; except

 

I suspect that it is the same in France; unless someone can prove otherwise.

 

 

You're probably right, but I think the women would have to pursue their case through the civil court and if you know French law courts, you'd have to have a Sheikh's ransom in order to afford it and a simple case can be drawn out for years.

I imagine racial bias would be very difficult to prove. Who needs the hassle of a court case? Women are covertly discriminated against all the time. It's one reason why many symphony orchestras now audition 'blind'.

[car720]

7 minutes ago, Seraphina said:

 

You sound very bigoted, my dear. How do you KNOW that he refused them because they were Muslim. He could have refused them because they were WOMEN, or because he's superstitious about the colour BLACK.... How very narrow-minded and presumptious you are!

 

How do I know that the times when I was turned away wasn't because I'm ASIAN? Who cares? I took my business elsewhere.

 

Don't sweat things you can't change! And ask for your money back from your therapist! 

 

What about the part where the guy says............."all terrorists are muslims and all muslims are terrorists".............I would have thought that was fairly clear.  How has this subject become a feminist war cry?

[ClutchClark]

16 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

So you are saying that if they had of lied then they would not have been breaking the law?  Well, it is against the law to discriminate based on religion, that trumps the right to refuse service common law, and they didn't lie so it is clear that they were breaking the law, not that they wouldn't have been if they had of lied it just wouldn't have been so clear.

 

 

The inside of your head is starting to look like an M C Escher drawing.

 

Its been a long day for all of us...lets take a breather and pick this up tomorrow when we are all thinking clearly.

 

Have a good night.

[Sphere]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Let me take the liberty of slightly amending what rijit wrote:  This post got 21 '"ikes" and I bet everyone of them will absolutely deny being a bigot.

 

Bigot? You mean someone intolerant towards others opinions?

 

Hmmm, got it.

[Shawn0000]

24 minutes ago, Seraphina said:

 

You sound very bigoted, my dear. How do you KNOW that he refused them because they were Muslim. He could have refused them because they were WOMEN, or because he's superstitious about the colour BLACK.... How very narrow-minded and presumptious you are!

 

How do I know that the times when I was turned away wasn't because I'm ASIAN? Who cares? I took my business elsewhere.

 

Don't sweat things you can't change! And ask for your money back from your therapist! 

 

In what way do I sound bigoted? 

 

There is a video of the restaurateur shouting about Muslims being terrorists and refusing to serve them, and later giving an interview stating his reasons as being the current news regarding the burkini ban and also to having lost a friend in the Bataclan concert attack, the perpetrator admitted fully to what he did and why he did it, that is how I KNOW, and your suppositions only point to the fact that you did not even bother to read the story!

 

What on earth is with the therapist dig?  Anyway, its your bad, you didn't have the first idea what you were talking about, how embarrassing for you to behave so smugly and have been so clueless.

 

And we CAN change things, complacency is the enemy.