Air con experts

[modafinil]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I have no doubt their MP would act in their best interest even if it was not what they voted for

 

"We know what's best for you."

 

The arrogance of many politicians and commenters is mind-boggling.

Edited February 1, 2017 by modafinil
mmmm another pie

[JB300]

I expect MPs in any constituency (regardless of political orientation) would be voted out if there was a strong 'leave' referendum result in that constituency - and their MP voted against allowing article 50 to be enacted!

That's assuming that their constituents hadn't changed their minds (nobody voted for a Hard Brexit, yes some, maybe most, would have voted that way anyway but it wasn't the point put to them).

I personally think it's mute anyway as a few major players in the EU are/will be going through a similar thing so (IMHO) the landscape of the EU will be radically different in a couple of years.

Let's just hope we have 1st mover advantage.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, modafinil said:

 

"We know what's best for you."

 

The arrogance of some left-leaning politicians and commenters is mind-boggling.

It's not arrogance at all. It's how a representative democracy is supposed to work. You elect an MP who will represent the best interests of all the constituents. You want a plebiscite on everything? The masses always know best? Nonsense. We would have hanging and no doubt burning st the stake!!!

[Bureaucrat]

On 1/31/2017 at 3:54 PM, kamahele said:

I felt sorry for this poor, desperate woman when she had to swallow her pride and come begging to Trump for business. A fate worse than death. 

Yes I heard that her party bought her a begging bowl to take with her on her travels to other countries at least she will get free bed and board. 

[modafinil]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

It's not arrogance at all. It's how a representative democracy is supposed to work. You elect an MP who will represent the best interests of all the constituents. You want a plebiscite on everything? The masses always know best? Nonsense. We would have hanging and no doubt burning st the stake!!!

 

Rubbish. Switzerland is widely recognised as one of the most successful countries in the world. Last year they had 16 referendums.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016

 

The Swiss don't have a death penalty, unlike the representative democracy of the USA. The Swiss masses seem capable of making excellent decisions for their country. Are you claiming that UK citizens are too stupid to be directly involved with the running of their country?

 

 

[Bureaucrat]

37 minutes ago, modafinil said:

 

Rubbish. Switzerland is widely recognised as one of the most successful countries in the world. Last year they had 16 referendums.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016

 

The Swiss don't have a death penalty, unlike the representative democracy of the USA. The Swiss masses seem capable of making excellent decisions for their country. Are you claiming that UK citizens are too stupid to be directly involved with the running of their country?

 

 

Sorry to have to break the news to you the referendum leavers lied to the public to get a favorable result. They promised there would be a 350,000 a week saving for the NHS and  Nigel Farage told us barefaced on camera it was a lie. How can this be treated seriously it's a farce.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Bureaucrat

[modafinil]

24 minutes ago, Bureaucrat said:

Sorry to have to break the news to you the referendum leavers lied to the public to get a favorable result. They promised there would be a 350,0000 a week saving for the NHS and  Nigel Farage told us barefaced on camera it was a lie. How can this be treated seriously it's a farce.

 

 

Your post has nothing to do with my post. Did you mean to quote me, or somebody else?

 

The Remain campaign had the overwhelming support of politicians, the media, economists, foreign leaders and more, and it still lost. Leave wasn't supposed to win. Are you suggesting that Farage single-handedly defeated the entire political establishment of the UK?

 

And what is this talk of £350,000/week saving? That would be £18 Million a year, well yes since the NHS budget is over £100 Billion a year, I think that savings target might be achievable. You do know that £18M is 0.02% of £100 Billion, don't you?

 

You probably meant to reply to somebody else. Edit: I see you have added an extra zero, but you are still way off. Farage promised an extra £350M a week.

[Bureaucrat]

11 minutes ago, modafinil said:

 

 

Your post has nothing to do with my post. Did you mean to quote me, or somebody else?

 

The Remain campaign had the overwhelming support of politicians, the media, economists, foreign leaders and more, and it still lost. Leave wasn't supposed to win. Are you suggesting that Farage single-handedly defeated the entire political establishment of the UK?

 

And what is this talk of £350,000/week saving? That would be £18 Million a year, well yes since the NHS budget is over £100 Billion a year, I think that savings target might be achievable. You do know that £18M is 0.02% of £100 Billion, don't you?

 

You probably meant to reply to somebody else. Edit: I see you have added an extra zero, but you are still way off. Farage promised an extra £350M a week.

You must be another Daily Mail reader there quite a few of them here, who are like most Tories total in denial. Perhaps you should upgrade to reading The Sun it suits your intelligence more. SO SORRY LORD MODAFINIL FOR MAKING A TYPO. That's the brand name of a major anti psychotic isn't  it.?

Edited February 1, 2017 by Bureaucrat

[modafinil]

Just now, Bureaucrat said:

You must be another Daily Mail reader there quite a few of them here, who are like most Tories total in denial. Perhaps you should upgrade to reading The Sun it suits your intelligence more. SO SORRY LORD MODAFINIL FOR MAKING A TYPO. That's the brand name of a major anti psychotic is it.?

 

OK, you win :) I concede defeat, you made some fine points. Have a nice evening.

[Srikcir]

UK Parliament votes 498 to 114 in favor of starting Brexit process. May can now invoke Article 50.

www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/europe/article-50-brexit-parliament-vote/

[jpinx]

10 hours ago, modafinil said:

 

Rubbish. Switzerland is widely recognised as one of the most successful countries in the world. Last year they had 16 referendums.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016

 

The Swiss don't have a death penalty, unlike the representative democracy of the USA. The Swiss masses seem capable of making excellent decisions for their country. Are you claiming that UK citizens are too stupid to be directly involved with the running of their country?

 

 

Indeed Switzerland is a good example of frequent referendums, and they do have a nice country, but UK mentality/culture might not suit that.  UK's version of democracy is not perfect, and the concept of whips is really not democratic at all. The basis of democracy is to allow the population  to decide what laws they want, not to enpower a Political Party to over-rule the population as soon as it is in power.  The "I know what's best for you" school-marm style of MP really has no place in a modern democracy where the electorate is sufficiently educated.  This is UK's single and biggest weakness, but how to unravel that and re-weave a new political methodology is going to need an ability to reform from within, and - looking at Brussels - we know how that is nigh-on impossible. 

[Grouse]

11 hours ago, modafinil said:

 

Rubbish. Switzerland is widely recognised as one of the most successful countries in the world. Last year they had 16 referendums.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_referendums,_2016

 

The Swiss don't have a death penalty, unlike the representative democracy of the USA. The Swiss masses seem capable of making excellent decisions for their country. Are you claiming that UK citizens are too stupid to be directly involved with the running of their country?

 

 

Sadly, yes!

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Sadly, yes!

 

We made the right call in joining the EEC trading federation, and we made the right call in getting out from a corrupt Eurocracy that was dragging us toward German-managed federalisation. That's a 100 percent record in modern times for hugely important specific issues. The British populace as a whole have proven themselves to be eminently capable of being involved with the running of the country.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

We made the right call in joining the EEC trading federation, and we made the right call in getting out from a corrupt Eurocracy that was dragging us toward German-managed federalisation. That's a 100 percent record in modern times for hugely important specific issues. The British populace as a whole have proven themselves to be eminently capable of being involved with the running of the country.

If you say so ?

[7by7]

21 hours ago, jpinx said:

The referendum appears to have been deliberately planned in areas, not constituencies, because the projections showed that by constituency they'd lose hands down.

 

The referendum, like all those before it in the UK, was not 'deliberately planned in areas, not constituencies.'

 

The count was carried out in areas, to make counting easier and quicker; but the 'Leave' and 'Remain' votes in each area were then added to all the others to give the total result for the whole UK.

 

It was the total number of votes for each option throughout the UK which determined the result, not how many areas voted for each.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Srikcir said:

UK Parliament votes 498 to 114 in favor of starting Brexit process. May can now invoke Article 50.

www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/europe/article-50-brexit-parliament-vote/

No, she can't.

 

The Bill has to be approved by the House of Lords and then receive Royal Assent before it becomes an Act and therefore law.

 

It is unlikely that the Lords will vote it down, and even if they did it would then be sent back to the Commons for amendment before being sent to the Lords again. The Lords cannot veto a Bill, they can only delay it for up to a year.

 

Once a Bill has passed both Houses, in practice Royal Assent is a formality. In theory, the  Monarch may refuse Royal Assent, but the last time this happened was in 1707.

[jpinx]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The referendum, like all those before it in the UK, was not 'deliberately planned in areas, not constituencies.'

 

The count was carried out in areas, to make counting easier and quicker; but the 'Leave' and 'Remain' votes in each area were then added to all the others to give the total result for the whole UK.

 

It was the total number of votes for each option throughout the UK which determined the result, not how many areas voted for each.

You miss the point, by MILES !!  (not kilometers)  :)

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, jpinx said:

You miss the point, by MILES !!  (not kilometers)  :)

 What was your point then.

 

The referendum result was determined by counting all the votes cast and seeing which option had the most; end of.

[Richard W]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 What was your point then.

 

The referendum result was determined by counting all the votes cast and seeing which option had the most; end of.

Reporting the counts by areas has given separatists useful ammunition.

[Khun Han]

46 minutes ago, Richard W said:

Reporting the counts by areas has given separatists useful ammunition.

 

If brexiters are to be referred to as seperatists, then it's entirely appropriate to refer to remainers as traitors . Isn't it cute that traitors cling to parliamentary democracy as a brake on brexit, yet ridicule seperatists for pointing out that the same system of democracy, if used in the referendum, would have delivered a brexit landslide victory?

[Scott]

No, it is not OK to refer to remainers as traitors.