Relatives seek truth about Irish babies 'discarded like litter'

[webfact]

Relatives seek truth about Irish babies 'discarded like litter'

By Estelle Shirbon

REUTERS

 

A woman walks her dog near to the site where the remains of an unknown number of babies and toddlers were found buried, in what used to be the grounds of the mother-and-baby home run by the Bon Secours nuns, in Tuam, western Ireland March 7, 2017. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls

 

TUAM, Ireland (Reuters) - Peter Mulryan's little sister may lie buried among the bones of babies and toddlers found in the sewers of what was once a home for unmarried mothers in the Irish town of Tuam, but he wants to know for sure.

 

The announcement last week by an official inquiry that it had found "significant quantities" of remains at the site has horrified Ireland, reviving anguish over how women and children were once treated at state-backed Catholic institutions.

 

The number of bodies is unknown, but a trail of paper evidence suggests there could be close to 800.

 

For Mulryan, who was born to an unmarried mother in 1944 and spent the first four years of his life at the Tuam home before being fostered, the grim discovery brings hope that he may find out what happened to Marian, the younger sister he never knew.

 

"What I am looking for now is: where is she?" Mulryan told Reuters in an interview at a hotel near his home in Ballinasloe, a short drive away from Tuam. Both are small towns in rural County Galway in the west of Ireland.

 

"I would like to see her remains removed out of there and we'll give her a dignified funeral," said the soft-spoken father of seven and grandfather of eight.

 

The infant mortality rate at Church-run institutions was significantly higher than in wider Irish society, and it is likely that other unmarked mass graves will be discovered.

 

Death certificates mostly blame infections like measles, gastroenteritis, bronchitis, tuberculosis, meningitis and pneumonia, but nobody has established why children were so much more likely to die than in the general population.

 

Marian was baptised, and her death certificate states she died from convulsions at the age of nine months. She was one of 796 babies and children recorded to have died at the Tuam home, and whose burial place is unknown.

 

"It hangs over me, not knowing what happened to her," said Mulryan, who only learnt of Marian's existence a few years ago.

 

In the past, Ireland's strict Catholic morality made it deeply shameful to become pregnant before marriage, and women would be rejected by their families and society as sinful.

 

Mulryan's mother Delia was one of an estimated 35,000 Irish women who passed through Catholic mother-and-baby homes in the 20th century to have their babies in secrecy.

 

The power of the Church and the stigma associated with unmarried mothers were so overwhelming that for decades the harsh treatment of these women and their children were taboo subjects, and many were forgotten.

 

Run by nuns from the Bon Secours order, the Tuam home operated from 1925 to 1961 and was demolished in the 1970s. Now, an estate of low-rise, modest homes stands on the site, with a large playground tucked away behind some back yards.

 

"NO RESPECT AT ALL"

 

It is beneath a patch of grass near the playground that the remains, ranging from 35-week-old foetuses to three-year-old toddlers, were found in test excavations.

 

Work on the burial site has been halted for now, and it has been fenced off. Visitors have placed a few bunches of fresh flowers and a teddy bear outside the gate.

 

The Bon Secours nuns have made no comment about why babies' corpses were interred in a sewer. They have said they transferred the home's records to the local authority when the home closed in 1961.

 

It was only through the dogged efforts of amateur local historian Catherine Corless, who made it her mission to investigate the history of the home in her own free time, that the existence of the mass grave was exposed.

 

"I just felt I had to do it for them. The drive came to get justice for them," said Corless. "I felt they were just discarded as litter, just because they were so-called illegitimate."

 

As a result of Corless's research, a commission of inquiry into 18 mother-and-baby homes across Ireland, including Tuam, was set up in 2014.

 

"If something happened in Tuam, it probably happened in other mother-and-baby homes around the country," said Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin in 2014.

 

Mothers would typically spend about a year at homes like the one in Tuam before being parted from their babies and sent away. Many left Ireland and started new lives elsewhere. Others, like Delia Mulryan, were imprisoned in the notorious Magdalene laundries where "fallen women" were forced into unpaid labour.

 

As for the children, some were fostered, some adopted and some remained in the mother-and-baby homes until they could be sent to live at state-funded, church-run orphanages known as Industrial Schools, where they would be taught to work.

 

Peter Mulryan was among many who experienced ill treatment and neglect by foster families who used them as farm labourers.

"We were nobody. We received no respect at all," said Mulryan, who for much of his life was so acutely aware of his low status that he kept his head bowed and never spoke of his origins.

 

As an adult, Mulryan traced his mother and visited her several times in the Magdalene laundry where she spent the rest of her life. When his first daughter was born, he took her to his mother, who held the baby in her arms. But she never revealed that she had also had a baby girl of her own.

 

"CHAMBER OF HORRORS"

 

The Church's prestige and authority have been greatly diminished over the past two decades by a series of scandals over paedophile priests, abuse at Magdalene laundries, forced adoptions of illegitimate babies and other painful issues.

 

"We had to bow to priests and bishops, but we never got respect back. So few have lifted the phone and apologised to me. It's the least they might do. Speak form the heart, from the altar, about what was done to the likes of us," said Mulryan.

 

Since the finding of the baby remains at Tuam was announced, the scandal has dominated the headlines in Irish media and prompted an outpouring of emotion. On Monday night, state television broadcast the names of all 796 of the lost children, which scrolled down the screen to the sound of mournful music.

 

Prime Minister Enda Kenny has addressed parliament about the Tuam mass grave, which he called a "chamber of horrors".

 

"Tuam is not just a burial ground, it is a social and cultural sepulchre ... We did not just hide away the dead bodies of tiny human beings, we dug deep and deeper still to bury our compassion, our mercy and our humanity itself," he said.

 

In his Sunday homily at the local cathedral, Michael Neary, Archbishop of Tuam, said he was "horrified and saddened" and spoke of "great suffering and pain for the little ones and their mothers".

 

But some of the relatives of the lost babies of Tuam are not satisfied with these responses.

 

"Words are words. We want action. Is this an apology to women and children? No," said Anna Corrigan, whose two brothers John and William Dolan are recorded as having died at the home.

 

"How can we get closure? You have to take our DNA. You have to DNA all the remains. You have to set up a DNA database. We need answers," she said in an interview at her home in Dublin.

 

Born in 1956, Corrigan grew up as an only child. It was only much later in life, after her parents had died, that she investigated her family history and found out her mother had had two baby boys at the Tuam home in 1946 and 1950.

 

Both died very young. She has a death certificate for John, but no information at all on what happened to William.

 

"I was deprived of having two brothers. I grew up thinking I was an only child. Now I've had to reverse my place in the family. I'm a third child. I have two children who don't have their uncles," she said in an interview at her home in Dublin.

 

"I have moments when I cry, I have moments when I think about what I lost."

 

(Additional reporting by Padraic Halpin in Dublin; editing by Peter Graff)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-03-10

[Prbkk]

Never trust religious institutions; this mob carry on like pork chops about the rights of "the unborn" yet throw out with the garbage those who have been born. Disgusting hypocrites.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Prbkk

[ddavidovsky]

So there are no accusations apparently that the babies were killed, only that they were unceremoniously disposed of. Was the burial in that place itself illegal? Is there any legal requirement for burials to follow certain standards?

 

The nuns were presumably an unsentimental lot, and that's it.

 

Excuse me if I missed something - the article is so bloated with people whining - such is modern society's newfound sense of victimisation - that's it's hard to get to the facts.

[Pikeybkk]

woman were forced into these homes and the babies were starved. They say there are no crimes as tge govt is trying to sweep it under the rug as tgey have just done with the abise hearings. It has taken the govt decades to investigate even though repeated reports.... 

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Excuse me if I missed something

You did ! And nobody here can help you understand.

[anon4546543]

The worst words JC said in the New Testament were "suffer the children...."

 The Catholic church seized on these words to allow mass murdering nuns and paedophile priests to do their worst. And still no proper apology or compensation has been forthcoming. Instead the Catholics are forced to eke  some truth out in hard fought criminal courts. A scum religion. 

[Morakot]

4 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Is there any legal requirement for burials to follow certain standards?

Yes there is; depth of burial and other issues are dictated by the Regulation of Burial Grounds 1888 and their subsequent amendments. Infringement after 1929 was liable to a penalty of two pounds sterling, raised to 125 EUR in 2013.

 

Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948 and Local Government Act, 1994 make provisions for  which sites can be used for burial. New burial grounds have required registration since 1824.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[ronrat]

The same institutions are guilty of similar practices in Australia and the US and who knows where else. Parasites, paedophiles and plunderers.

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, Morakot said:

Yes there is; depth of burial and other issues are dictated by the Regulation of Burial Grounds 1888 and their subsequent amendments. Infringement after 1929 was liable to a penalty of two pounds sterling, raised to 125 EUR in 2013.

 

Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948 and Local Government Act, 1994 make provisions for  which sites can be used for burial. New burial grounds have required registration since 1824.

Thank you. It's a pity the article didn't address issues such as this instead of just hyper-emoting. It's not clear if the Tuam home broke those laws. Seems also there was no local or national government regulation of these places. Presumably the nuns were just saving money.

 

Two - possibly three - people above believe the babies were sexually abused before being disposed of. As there been claim of any such thing regarding this place I take it that's just the usual anti-catholic prejudice.

[Morakot]

6 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Presumably the nuns were just saving money.

 

Hard to believe that was the key factor. More like stigma and shame surrounding the deceased children...

 

It's not really primarily a question about crimes committed by the nuns, but about a culture of marginalising and stigmatising unmarried women that often left them without any choice for their (un)born children. Very sad story.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[Galactus]

horrible:( poor kids buried hopefully not alive:(

plus forced labor in churches and other horrible actions.

i am not surprised to see such horrible actions from Christianity, 'religion of peace'.

[Morakot]

6 minutes ago, Galactus said:

horrible actions from Christianity, 'religion of peace'.

 

More like Irish society in the past --including the Church-- than religion in particular that ought to be blamed. Everyone must looked away if they didn't fuel it themselves.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[anon4546543]

2 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

More like Irish society in the past --including the Church-- than religion in particular that ought to be blamed. Everyone must looked away if they didn't fuel it.

And exactly what proportion of the Republic of Ireland "society" were not Catholic "in the past". Too many people rush to defend one of the most vile institutions of so called Christianity. Christian meaning Christ like. Christ never ordained the decimation of whole civilisations, the inquisition, the taking of money for phoney sacred remnants, mass murder, paedophiles and much more. It was the most unholy Roman Catholic church and it is still covering up past atrocities this very day. And people like you try to wish wash and condone these activities. 

[Galactus]

18 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

More like Irish society in the past --including the Church-- than religion in particular that ought to be blamed. Everyone must looked away if they didn't fuel it themselves.

but, this happened under the patronage of church. therefore, it is the responsibility of the church.

moral standards of the church comes from Vatican and responsbile priests are assigned from there too.

 

i mean, such horrible actions happen all the time in churches. hundreds of thousands of boys and girls sexually harassed by pedo priests and this still goes on to this day!

in the past, it was inquisition courts of the church, witch hunts (some claims like a million female are burned alive or killed for nothing within 300 years), crusaders (massacred hundreds of thousands of orthodox christians, muslim and jews) and countless more atrocities...from religion of peace; Christianity!

Edited March 10, 2017 by Galactus

[sanukjim]

24 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

Hard to believe that was the key factor. More like stigma and shame surrounding the deceased children...

 

It's not really primarily a question about crimes committed by the nuns, but about a culture of marginalising and stigmatising unmarried women that often left them without any choice for their (un)born children. Very sad story.

As often happens when religion is in control.

[whatawonderfulday]

2 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

The worst words JC said in the New Testament were "suffer the children...."

 The Catholic church seized on these words to allow mass murdering nuns and paedophile priests to do their worst. And still no proper apology or compensation has been forthcoming. Instead the Catholics are forced to eke  some truth out in hard fought criminal courts. A scum religion. 

All religions are no differant

[Morakot]

13 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

And exactly what proportion of the Republic of Ireland "society" were not Catholic "in the past".

 

Good question! About 85+% in Ireland . So why is/ was there not such a massive problem in South American countries with 95+% Catholics?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[Galactus]

23 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

Good question! About 85+% in Ireland . So why is/ was there not such a massive problem in South American countries with 95+% Catholics?

most probably, such horrible actions do not surface in south americas where laws and human rights are weak and powerful institutions or people are untouchable, especially church.

so i am sure same horrible things happen there too just we dont hear.

[Morakot]

14 minutes ago, Galactus said:

most probably, such horrible actions do not surface in south americas where laws and human rights are weak and powerful institutions or people are untouchable, especially church.

so i am sure same horrible things happen there too just we dont hear.

OK, probably just like in England or Thailand where we did hear about it: I.e. young boys abused by football coaches, children molested by rockstars, or dead babies dumped in the temples en mass...

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[anon4546543]

2 hours ago, Morakot said:

OK, probably just like in England or Thailand where we did hear about it: I.e. young boys abused by football coaches, children molested by rockstars, or dead babies dumped in the temples en mass...

There are always paedophiles in every country. But a few coaches, teachers , boy scout leaders, even rock stars if you call Rolf Harris a rock star does not equate with the systematic institutional abuse over hundreds, thousands of years by the unholy Catholic church and the following cover up or washing of hands by all in the church and people such as you. 

 Amazing that you state that Sth America had no such problems when Cortez and others under the banner of the Catholic church systematically destroyed much of the Sth American culture and forced at sword point the remnants of those cultures to "convert". And you need to do some reading and research, there is a lot of info about abuse even today. It is all buried under under the dictatorships (supported by the Catholic church) of most political institutions there. It will all come out and no hand wringing and wishy washy apologists like you will prevent it.

You need to read the reasons that priests, nuns and Catholic institutions give when confronted by the awful truth in courts of law as to why they participated or covered up the crimes they committed. That is if you are one of the thousands of lawyers to assist the church in mitigating the disaster that is about to unfold, little by little but soon to be a torrent. Fess up. That may salve your conscience for one and return some respect to those that may be cautiously trying to return the church to some semblance of respect for two. 

[Morakot]

1 hour ago, spiderorchid said:

There are always paedophiles in every country. But a few coaches, teachers , boy scout leaders, even rock stars if you call Rolf Harris a rock star does not equate with the systematic institutional abuse over hundreds, thousands of years by the unholy Catholic church and the following cover up or washing of hands by all in the church and people such as you.

 

Absolutely not true!

 

There was the systematic abuse of vulnerable girls in Derby, Oxford and towns around Britain; the growing concerns about an alleged Westminster paedophile ring and the crimes committed by Jimmy Savile and others who abused their celebrity status.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/05/child-abuse-in-the-uk-runs-far-deeper-than-you-know/

 

and here in Scotland...

 

Dozens of accounts of systematic abuse in Scottish schools, residential homes and hospitals have been published.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38568857

 

and here about across the British Empire...

 

The long-awaited Independent Inquiry into Child Sex Abuse heard on its first public session of evidence that many of the institutions which housed them were plagued by "widespread and systematic sexual abuse".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sex-abuse-inquiry-child-migrants-sex-abuse-canada-australia-new-zealand-zimbabwe-a7602861.html

 

 

I'm certainty not denning any of the terrible and sad events that happen in Christian churches, especially in the Catholic one. But please for the sake of fairness and respect to the victims do not deny the systematic and institutionalised abuse  of children that happened in British and Irish society outside the churches.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Morakot

[Andaman Al]

5 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Thank you. It's a pity the article didn't address issues such as this instead of just hyper-emoting. It's not clear if the Tuam home broke those laws

I don't think you have really looked in to this. The bodies of the babies and toddlers were all thrown in to a large septic tank!! One after the other over yearsThey were not just buried on a piece of land, they were thrown into a septic tank by a religion that demands ceremony and service. They were all thrown into a large container designed for storing human s**t. I really wonder why you think people should not feel emotive about it? You expect people to behave like robots when there was such scandalous behaviour towards innocents by an organization still claiming to have the moral high ground? This is not something that happened in the 1800's it was still going on in the 1960's and 70's maybe later. The brothers and sisters of some of the children that died there are still very much alive and they deserve answers.

[anon4546543]

31 minutes ago, Morakot said:

 

Absolutely not true!

 

There was the systematic abuse of vulnerable girls in Derby, Oxford and towns around Britain; the growing concerns about an alleged Westminster paedophile ring and the crimes committed by Jimmy Savile and others who abused their celebrity status.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/05/child-abuse-in-the-uk-runs-far-deeper-than-you-know/

 

and here in Scotland...

 

Dozens of accounts of systematic abuse in Scottish schools, residential homes and hospitals have been published.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-38568857

 

and here about across the British Empire...

 

The long-awaited Independent Inquiry into Child Sex Abuse heard on its first public session of evidence that many of the institutions which housed them were plagued by "widespread and systematic sexual abuse".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sex-abuse-inquiry-child-migrants-sex-abuse-canada-australia-new-zealand-zimbabwe-a7602861.html

 

 

I'm certainty not denning any of the terrible and sad events that happen in Christian churches, especially in the Catholic one. But please for the sake of fairness and respect to the victims do not deny the systematic and institutionalised abuse  of children that happened in British and Irish society outside the churches.

Well I am glad you are not denning or should I say denying sexual abuse does not occur in "Christian churches, especially in the Catholic one." But you seem to imply this is recent. The Catholic church has been abusing, murdering, using issues of church to defraud its followers of their poor wealth since the inception of the Catholic church. The south of America and Africa are the only last bastions where the unholy Catholic church can bleed the hard earned wealth of peasants. So the political denial of sold and bought dictators in these countries. The Catholic church condones repression in these countries because that is their last bastion to scam money from the poor. And let me guess, you are an Irish  descent "jimmygrant" now living in Glascow who supports the repression of any scandal that may affect your religion. Your virgin birthed saviour who condones murder, atrocities, scamming, and the rape of children speaks well of you. You cannot wash your hands for all time, your institution of a church is obnoxious at best, loathsome at worst. May your god forgive you.

[Langsuan Man]

One of the most haunting movies I have ever seen was Philomena

 

Quote

Philomena, starring Judi Dench and directed by Stephen Frears, received four Oscar nominations last week. The film is based on a true story chronicled in Martin Sixsmith’s 2009 book The Lost Child of Philomena Lee: A Mother, Her Son, and a Fifty-Year Search. Captured is a little known piece of adoption history—the forcible removal of Irish children from their unwed mothers and then adoption by U.S. families. 

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2431286/

[oxo1947]

Pray and Prey are two different words... Unless you're a Priest...............

 

 

 

 

[Morakot]

11 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

And let me guess, you are an Irish  descent "jimmygrant" now living in Glascow who supports the repression of any scandal that may affect your religion. Your virgin birthed saviour who condones murder, atrocities, scamming, and the rape of children speaks well of you. You cannot wash your hands for all time, your institution of a church is obnoxious at best, loathsome at worst. May your god forgive you.

 

How could you be so far off the mark?

 

I am not a Catholic –- never have been, nor do I live in Scotland or indeed in the UK.

 

 

Your views are indicative of a persistent denial of common responsibility. The the complicit involvement of state institutions, non-religious charities, schools --- society at large-- has contributed to and furthered the monstrous deeds committed by Christian churches in Ireland and Britain. It is time that you, me, and everyone else takes collective responsibility for what has happened. This does not exonerate churches in the slightest; in fact it makes even a stronger case about their fault by clearly showing how they were permitted to do these unthinkable acts.

 

When in 1945 Allied troops liberated those concentration camp survivors in Nazi Germany, the question arose how could anyone Not have known. Like in the case of systematic child abuse, the extent of these atrocities were only possible because the metaphorical man on the Clapham omnibus looked away, while the state and other institutions systematically colluded.

 

I don't know who you are and what your background is, but seem to painfully home in on a specific group while not seeing the wider picture. Perhaps it may help; it suggest to read around the topic of “Liberation Theology” that had emerged in Catholic South America during the 1950s and 60s which attempts to promote social responsibility people have with each other. No surprise the Vatican condemned it at the time.

[ddavidovsky]

14 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

I don't think you have really looked in to this. The bodies of the babies and toddlers were all thrown in to a large septic tank!! One after the other over yearsThey were not just buried on a piece of land, they were thrown into a septic tank by a religion that demands ceremony and service. They were all thrown into a large container designed for storing human s**t. I really wonder why you think people should not feel emotive about it? You expect people to behave like robots when there was such scandalous behaviour towards innocents by an organization still claiming to have the moral high ground? This is not something that happened in the 1800's it was still going on in the 1960's and 70's maybe later. The brothers and sisters of some of the children that died there are still very much alive and they deserve answers.

You're right, I haven't looked into it and, judging by the quality of the OP article I doubt the facts are available to make any enquiry worthwhile. In the meantime, I assume that the news is sensationalist as it usually is, that the facts are distorted as they usually are, that everyone judges different eras and different places by today's standards as they always do, and that people believe what they want to believe.

 

I could reply in the same vein: why should people feel emotive about how a dead baby was disposed of in the 60s? For one thing, it's history. For another, the babies were dead. For another, it's not clear that any laws were broken here. Some cultures leave their dead out for the vultures, so it's all relative.

 

Fact is, people are getting outraged because they choose to, and they choose to because they have got it in for the catholic church.

 

What I find more interesting is the purely academic question of whether nuns have any maternal instinct and sexual impluses, seeing as they have cut themselves off from all that. I imagine one particularly puritanical head nun could be responsible for this policy, who believed she was doing the moral thing.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

Fact is, people are getting outraged because they choose to, and they choose to because they have got it in for the catholic church.

 

I find that statement mind-blowing. My outrage is nothing to do with anything about me possessing an attitude that could be described as "Got it in for the Catholic Church". My out rage is because a group of people (that happen to belong to  religious order), systematically mistreated mothers and Children over a period of decades and took young babies and toddlers who died of malnutrition and disease and dumped them in a septic tank. This has occurred in living memory.

 

You mention the word 'academic' as if you are really interested in a specific element of this story yet you comment and make conclusions without the slightest effort to equip yourself with the knowledge and facts behind the OP.

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

I assume that the news is sensationalist as it usually is, that the facts are distorted as they usually are

Actually NO, the media is not being sensationalist and the facts are not distorted.

 

How about you either stop commenting on something you cannot be bothered to learn about, or get your fingers to take you on a journey to you tube, type in the subject matter and watch entire documentary evidence on the subject you think is being hyped up.

 

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

What I find more interesting is the purely academic question of whether nuns have any maternal instinct and sexual impluses, seeing as they have cut themselves off from all that. I imagine one particularly puritanical head nun could be responsible for this policy, who believed she was doing the moral thing.

 

Firstly I do not find your thoughts more interesting or important than the  dreadful facts that have emerged. However they behave, Nuns are human therefore by default they will have sexual impulses, maternal instincts can be suppressed and there is nothing normal about a woman who goes through a marriage ceremony to believe she is married to/the bride of an imaginary being.