Britain will lose more from Brexit than EU, bloc's foreign policy chief says

[delh]

5 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

What you mean the one we joined when we were the sick man of Europe, yeah lets go back to those glory days when we were not in the EEC.

And why were we the sick man of Europe at that point?

[pitrevie]

1 minute ago, delh said:

And why were we the sick man of Europe at that point?

Well it certainly wasn't the fault of the EEC. However what is undeniable is that the British economy performed a lot better after we joined.

[pitrevie]

7 minutes ago, delh said:

My comment for a quick outcome referred to US- EU trade talks.

 

With reference to Khun Han's comments, he throws doubt on the legitimacy of 'Unnamed' officials. A fair point when a journalist follows his/her own agenda.

The Times is citing American officials but of course whether its true or not remains to be seen. After all it wouldn't be like Trump to change his mind and do the opposite of what he said would it. 

I have made the point here before, every world leader with whom we are on friendly terms favoured the UK staying in the EU even the Chinese. That changed in January when Trump became president and we have gone with Trump's advice the man who had to call his now disgraced NSA in the middle of the night to ask if a weak or strong dollar was better. I am filled with confidence.

[delh]

10 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Well it certainly wasn't the fault of the EEC. However what is undeniable is that the British economy performed a lot better after we joined.

Nice bodyswerve, right out of the Tony Blair 'how to not answer questions' manual.

 

Here' s another chance.

 

So, why were we the sick man of Europe at that stage?

 

Of course, no problem if you'd prefer not to answer.

[delh]

4 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

The Times is citing American officials but of course whether its true or not remains to be seen. After all it wouldn't be like Trump to change his mind and do the opposite of what he said would it. 

I have made the point here before, every world leader with whom we are on friendly terms favoured the UK staying in the EU even the Chinese. That changed in January when Trump became president and we have gone with Trump's advice the man who had to call his now disgraced NSA in the middle of the night to ask if a weak or strong dollar was better. I am filled with confidence.

Just for a giggle, who owns the Times, a pro remained or a Brexiteer?

 

Sometimes it pays to look a little deeper.

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, delh said:

And why were we the sick man of Europe at that point?

Semi feudal society coupled with low industrial investment

[citybiker]

We shouldn't be surprised Federica is giving speeches like this.

Firstly, she's representing the EU, ensuring the EU's interests are safe guarded, which will include pro EU speeches including forecasts, predictions and of course facts, and the primary one is to educate, influence and deter.

It's far too early to summarise who'll lose or gain, Federico fully knows this, same as the European Commission.

It's political poker, the UK has its own priorities to deal with and ensuring a constructive, strategic and progressive Brexit is aimed for.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pitrevie]

14 minutes ago, delh said:

Nice bodyswerve, right out of the Tony Blair 'how to not answer questions' manual.

 

Here' s another chance.

 

So, why were we the sick man of Europe at that stage?

 

Of course, no problem if you'd prefer not to answer.

well there obviously is a long complex answer but in short perhaps it was doing the exact opposite of Germany. I think Grouse has already touched on part of it, but what say you?

Edited April 22, 2017 by pitrevie
adding

[delh]

8 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

well there obviously is a long complex answer but in short perhaps it was doing the exact opposite of Germany. I think Grouse has already touched on part of it, but what say you?

Bodyswerve number 2.

 

Its clear we have totally different opinions on Brexit. I have no issue with that, so long as you aren't one of these ' let's have another referendum' types?

 

I do not try to change your opinion, I doubt you would try to change mine.

 

There is nothing left other than to get behind the government, hope for the best outcome.

 

Good debate, but for me, I'm off for a beer.

 

You are welcome to the last word ?

Edited April 22, 2017 by delh

[pitrevie]

7 minutes ago, delh said:

Bodyswerve number 2.

 

Its clear we have totally different opinions on Brexit. I have no issue with that, so long as you aren't one of these ' let's have another referendum' types?

 

I do not try to change your opinion, I doubt you would try to change mine.

 

There is nothing left other than to get behind the government, hope for the best outcome.

 

Good debate, but for me, I'm off for a beer.

 

You are welcome to the last word ?

Talking of body swerves I note you made no attempt to tell us why you thought the UK was in such a mess prior to entering the EU.

[ajarngreg]

On 4/21/2017 at 0:03 AM, englishinsiam said:

The anti UK stuff here lol.

We will be just fine out of the EU. France will be next then the Eu will crumble and the nation's will all get their sovereignty back.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Germany should have voted out a long time ago. Unfortunately, not with such a crippled chancellor who had been a spy for Moscow.

 

     I hope for all Germans that they get their old currency back without printing billions of Euro notes for countries like Greece and others.

 

  P.S. Just have a look at Switzerland's currency now. The German Deutsch Mark was never far away from it. But now it's equal to the Euro?

 

       

 

       

Edited April 22, 2017 by ajarngreg

[Basil B]

On 20/04/2017 at 9:16 AM, webfact said:

Britain will lose more than the European Union from its decision to leave the bloc, the EU's top diplomat said on Thursday, and talks with London were expected to be difficult.

Probably that narrow mindedness of the EU's bureaucrats is what swayed the exit vote...

 

[Khun Han]

40 minutes ago, delh said:

Nice bodyswerve, right out of the Tony Blair 'how to not answer questions' manual.

 

Here' s another chance.

 

So, why were we the sick man of Europe at that stage?

 

Of course, no problem if you'd prefer not to answer.

 

We've had this discussion before. And it was a reain poster who inadvertently identified the issues with the UK economy in the 1960s and 1970s by linking to a detailed article on the problems of outdated industrial equipment and methods, coupled with trades union militancy. The Thatcher government dealt effectively with trades union militancy through new laws. Though that government's rather brutal remedy for industrial stagnation led to a few big casualties, and is mainly responsible for our property and finance-based boom and bust economy.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, ajarngreg said:

Germany should have voted out a long time ago. Unfortunately, not with such a crippled chancellor who had been a spy for Moscow.

 

     I hope for all Germans that they get their old currency back without printing billions of Euro notes for countries like Greece and others.

 

  P.S. Just have a look at Switzerland's currency now. The German Deutsch Mark was never far away from it. But now it's equal to the Euro?

 

       

 

       

I can assure that most Germans do not hope for the reinstitution of the German Mark.  If it were not for the Euro, Germany would not be enjoying its export boom. Which is why Germany enjoys such a low level of employment.  In effect, in relation to the German economy, the Euro is undervalued.  And that's because of the downward drag on it from the  weaker economies of Spain, Italy, Greece, and Portugal. Of course, this means Germany is in effect parasitizing the weaker EU economies. They're the ones that have the legitimate gripe about the Euro since it artificially raises their costs vis a vis Germany.

[onthesoi]

12 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I can assure that most Germans do not hope for the reinstitution of the German Mark.  If it were not for the Euro, Germany would not be enjoying its export boom. Which is why Germany enjoys such a low level of employment. 

 

It's a well worn myth that Germany's success is down to the Euro.

 

Plenty of other countries have the Euro but can only dream of Germany's success ....which means the Euro has nothing to do with Germany's success.

 

However, Germany has plenty of other things which other European countries don't have.

Edited April 22, 2017 by onthesoi

[Baerboxer]

On 4/21/2017 at 4:28 PM, Grouse said:

Fascism is a fairly large wart

 

What a collection - with Stalinist communist Corbyn and the National Socialist "it's all about me Sturgeon.

 

Might as well label them all.

 

Thought you'd understand the difference, but alas no.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

It's a well worn myth that Germany's success is down to the Euro.

 

Plenty of other countries have the Euro but can only dream of Germany's success ....which means the Euro has nothing to do with Germany's success.

 

However, Germany has plenty of other things which other European countries don't have.

 

Having large companies that lie and cheat to ensure profits. Or simply not paying what as a country you signed up to pay, for defense for example. Or ensuring your big home market always favors home and local producers; or propagating the myth of German quality.

Yep, that helps German success splendidly.

 

Btw - there are plenty of good articles from a diverse source of writers that explain how replacing the Euro worked in Germany's favor whilst working adversely for countries like Greece and Italy.  Do some research before claiming the Euro has nothing to do with Germany's success. Not the only reason but certainly a contributing factor.

 

 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 4/20/2017 at 7:56 PM, sujoop said:

With formerly Great Britain in rapid downsize and isolation mode and with the US thumbing its nose at TPP etc,  CHINA is now promoting the RCEP which would cover Southeast Asian (ASEAN) countries, plus India, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. China is also signing a slew of trade agreements with Peru and other South American countries as well as African nations.

 

 

 

 

Great Britain will also soon be signing dozens of Trade Agreements with countries all over the world.  Of course under Article 50, we are supposed to wait until we leave the EU completely, possibly with no deal at all, and then find ourselves with no potential trade deals tentatively negotiated meanwhile in case that happens.  We too can sign a trade agreement with China when the time comes.    The EU has got too big for its boots.

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

It's a well worn myth that Germany's success is down to the Euro.

 

Plenty of other countries have the Euro but can only dream of Germany's success ....which means the Euro has nothing to do with Germany's success.

 

However, Germany has plenty of other things which other European countries don't have.

So you're saying that the price of goods doesn't matter? That even if the cost of German goods were dramatically higher this wouldn't affect sales? This may be true in oppositeland, but not anywhere I know of that's shown on maps.

[vogie]

43 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What a collection - with Stalinist communist Corbyn and the National Socialist "it's all about me Sturgeon.

 

Might as well label them all.

 

Thought you'd understand the difference, but alas no.

Time to drain the swamp.

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Great Britain will also soon be signing dozens of Trade Agreements with countries all over the world.  Of course under Article 50, we are supposed to wait until we leave the EU completely, possibly with no deal at all, and then find ourselves with no potential trade deals tentatively negotiated meanwhile in case that happens.  We too can sign a trade agreement with China when the time comes.    The EU has got too big for its boots.

Really? So to your way of thinking trade agreements are very easy to negotiate? That absolutely defies the history of trade negotiations. So, if, in fact they are concluded swiftly, that will be because the UK has made way too many concessions. 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, pitrevie said:

What you mean the one we joined when we were the sick man of Europe, yeah lets go back to those glory days when we were not in the EEC.

now your the one doing the twisting. The EEC, which the British electorate voted for was fine.

What the people then voted against was the imposed E.U.  

[JAG]

How stupid, you are an English ( I suppose ) dreamer ; no, France will not be the next,  because a big majority of French want to stay in EU, you'll see it in two weeks
 
 yes, Britain will lose more than EU. Your hate of the non british world makes you blind , you have a very short sight ; because  you want to be out of EU, you think every body wants the same than you ?
 
Britain choosed to be alone, big mistake in 2017 ; EU choosed to be together even if there are things to change 

Tell us where you are from and I sure we can think of something to slate you with?

I think in another universe he would be on the castle battlements shouting about elderberries and people smelling of hamsters...

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I can assure that most Germans do not hope for the reinstitution of the German Mark.  If it were not for the Euro, Germany would not be enjoying its export boom. Which is why Germany enjoys such a low level of employment.  In effect, in relation to the German economy, the Euro is undervalued.  And that's because of the downward drag on it from the  weaker economies of Spain, Italy, Greece, and Portugal. Of course, this means Germany is in effect parasitizing the weaker EU economies. They're the ones that have the legitimate gripe about the Euro since it artificially raises their costs vis a vis Germany.

 

I know you're not going to agree with this because you're basically pro-EU, but the Eurozone is, for me, a nutshell of why the EU doesn't work. Co-operation was always the way to go on every issue. Integration is generations away at best: trying to force the issue economically has wrecked economies that were previously unstable; trying to force the issue socially is damaging societies.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Khun Han

[citybiker]

Economic/Eurozone drag due to the weaker PIGS will always be tolerated as the survival of the EU is the most important issue of all.

It makes me laugh when the likes of Labours JC accuses the Government of attempting to undermine the EU when he EU itself has inequality.

For all those claiming the Euro is undervalued, action speaks louder than words.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pitrevie]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

now your the one doing the twisting. The EEC, which the British electorate voted for was fine.

What the people then voted against was the imposed E.U.  

Well in our system the British people had a chance to vote out the government that imposed each of the major treaties that followed. In fact Major opted out of the Social Chapter of the Maastrich treaty and a few years later Blair with an overwhelming majority signed up for that giving a lot of workers protection which the Tories seemed reluctant to give. The Tories were also confirmed in power after signing up to the SEA. However your enthusiasm for allowing the British people to decide apparently disappears  from now on. Several times you have been asked whether you think the treaty that we finally agree on with the EU should be put to the British people for approval or do you think that should be imposed on the British people and each time the response is zero.

Edited April 22, 2017 by pitrevie
adding more

[Stargeezr]

France will be next I pulling out of this EU experiment ,  once the new leader  is  in power.  Good Luck  EU  your  years  are numbered.

Geezer

[nontabury]

12 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Well in our system the British people had a chance to vote out the government that imposed each of the major treaties that followed. In fact Major opted out of the Social Chapter of the Maastrich treaty and a few years later Blair with an overwhelming majority signed up for that giving a lot of workers protection which the Tories seemed reluctant to give. The Tories were also confirmed in power after signing up to the SEA. However your enthusiasm for allowing the British people to decide apparently disappears  from now on. Several times you have been asked whether you think the treaty that we finally agree on with the EU should be put to the British people for approval or do you think that should be imposed on the British people and each time the response is zero.

I believe in holding a GE in June,with the big issue being the Brexit deal.That should TM win with a large majority. That in itself should give her the mandate to decide what is the best for the U.K.  If she then  decides to waste more precious time by putting it back again to the electorate,so be it. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by nontabury

[citybiker]

France will be next I pulling out of this EU experiment ,  once the new leader  is  in power.  Good Luck  EU  your  years  are numbered.
Geezer

I'll be very surprised if France leave's the EU.

However, I hope to be blatantly proved wrong on this occasion.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

I believe in holding a GE in June,with the big issue being the Brexit deal.That should TM win with a large majority. That in itself should give her the mandate to decide what is the best for the U.K.  If she then  decides to waste more precious time by putting it back again to the electorate,so be it. 

And that I think reveals your hypocrisy because in June you will not have the faintest idea what the deal is but nevertheless you are going to accept whatever is or is not agreed. AS Kenneth Clarke remarked its like disappearing down a rabbit hole and expecting to reappear in wonderland.