Israeli police kill Palestinian girl who tried to attack them in Jerusalem -police

[webfact]

Israeli police kill Palestinian girl who tried to attack them in Jerusalem -police

REUTERS

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli paramilitary police officers shot and killed a knife-wielding Palestinian teenage girl who tried to attack them at an entrance to Jerusalem's Old City on Sunday, a police spokeswoman said.

 

The incident was the latest in a 19-month-long period of sporadic street attacks by Palestinians against Israelis, and the bustling Damascus Gate entrance to Jerusalem's walled Old City where it occurred has seen many attacks.

 

Police spokeswoman Luba Samri said a knife was recovered from the scene together with a farewell letter from the teenager to her family quoting a verse from the Koran that signed off with the word "shahida" - Arabic for martyr.

 

The Palestinian health ministry said the dead girl was 16-year-old Fatima Hjeiji from a town near Ramallah in the occupied West Bank.

At least 243 Palestinians have died during a wave of sporadic violence in Israel, Jerusalem and the West Bank that began in October 2015.

 

Israel blames the violence on incitement by the Palestinian leadership and says that at least 164 of the Palestinians killed by had launched stabbing, shooting or car ramming attacks. Others died during clashes and protests.

 

In the same period of violence, 37 Israelis, two American tourists and a British student have been killed. The frequency of the attacks has slowed but has not stopped.

 

Israel has accused the Palestinian leadership of inciting the violence. The Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule in the West Bank, denies incitement and charges that in many cases, Israel has used excessive force in thwarting attackers armed with rudimentary weapons.

 

Israel captured those lands in the 1967 Middle East war, and maintains tight restrictions on the movement of Palestinians in some areas, especially West Bank checkpoints that border Israel. The last round of peace talks collapsed in 2014.

 

(Additional reporting by Nidal al-Mughrabi, Writing by Ori Lewis; Editing by Ros Russell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-08

[boomerangutang]

A lesson in 'How To Teach Your Children Badly.'   All kids are impressionable.  They look to adults to steer them towards good ways of thinking.   Obviously, the girl had been woefully let down by her minders.  

 

There are problems in the world.  A child should be taught to try and find solutions. The girl's guardians taught her hate, fear, revenge, extremism.  Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences.

[johna]

41 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

A lesson in 'How To Teach Your Children Badly.'   All kids are impressionable.  They look to adults to steer them towards good ways of thinking.   Obviously, the girl had been woefully let down by her minders.  

 

There are problems in the world.  A child should be taught to try and find solutions. The girl's guardians taught her hate, fear, revenge, extremism.  Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences.

 

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

[ezzra]

8 minutes ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

 

When did you ever see a 16 years old Israeli girl going out and planning

to knife a Palestinian policeman in order to be a martyr pray tell.....

easy to spew out nonsenses, hard to substantiate....

[boomerangutang]

29 minutes ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

                      That's like saying an Inuit boy learns to kill and skin a seal because he grows up in an icy landscape.  No, he is taught survival skills by his elders.

 

                    The girl, like all Palestinian kids, was taught many negative things by the elders around her, while she was growing up.  She took it seriously and now she's dead.   Palestinians will lionize her - therefore exacerbating problems.

 

                             I worked one summer at a camp in Virginia where Palestinian and Israeli kids were brought together - to interact peacefully/joyfully/cooperatively.   It wasn't a silver bullet solution, but it was steps in the right direction.  Children should have their heads filled with solution-oriented and cooperative thoughts, not thoughts of hate, revenge, polarity, vindictiveness.  

[bandito]

1 hour ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

 

With people like you, making dumb statements like that, there never will be any peace in the world.

Talking like Kim Jong-un does'nt help much.

[Essaybloke]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

A lesson in 'How To Teach Your Children Badly.'   All kids are impressionable.  They look to adults to steer them towards good ways of thinking.   Obviously, the girl had been woefully let down by her minders.  

 

There are problems in the world.  A child should be taught to try and find solutions. The girl's guardians taught her hate, fear, revenge, extremism.  Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences.

"Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences."

Mmm yeah, THAT should stop the anger, the desperation, resentment, the hatred, the violence! Luckily for us, we can only imagine what it must be like to live in the world's biggest prison. 

[sanukjim]

1 hour ago, bandito said:

 

With people like you, making dumb statements like that, there never will be any peace in the world.

Talking like Kim Jong-un does'nt help much.

johna is probably a Muslim or a very liberal being.

[Fulwell53]

3 hours ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

One nation's terrorist is another nation's freedom fighter.

Micharl Collins, NelsonMandela, Chr guevara etc.

The CIA were the world's biggest terrorist organisation from the end of ww2 to end of the century.

Some were good causes but others were shocking eg chile

[Fulwell53]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                      That's like saying an Inuit boy learns to kill and skin a seal because he grows up in an icy landscape.  No, he is taught survival skills by his elders.

 

                    The girl, like all Palestinian kids, was taught many negative things by the elders around her, while she was growing up.  She took it seriously and now she's dead.   Palestinians will lionize her - therefore exacerbating problems.

 

                             I worked one summer at a camp in Virginia where Palestinian and Israeli kids were brought together - to interact peacefully/joyfully/cooperatively.   It wasn't a silver bullet solution, but it was steps in the right direction.  Children should have their heads filled with solution-oriented and cooperative thoughts, not thoughts of hate, revenge, polarity, vindictiveness.  

Summer camp in virginia...well there you go

[Jingthing]

On the micro level, most any police in any nation would shoot at a direct attacker. 

On the macro level, the same old same old Israeli-Palestinian conflict discussion I've heard since I was a boy. 

The only actually relevant question I have about this incident, is was it really necessary to shoot her dead? Would need to know more details to have an opinion. 

[cruisemonkey]

Silly bunt.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

A lesson in 'How To Teach Your Children Badly.'   All kids are impressionable.  They look to adults to steer them towards good ways of thinking.   Obviously, the girl had been woefully let down by her minders.  

 

There are problems in the world.  A child should be taught to try and find solutions. The girl's guardians taught her hate, fear, revenge, extremism.  Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences.

 

While upbringing, education and parental care all play their part, hanging on to these as the core (or, according to some, sole) factors is taking the easy route. It cannot be ignored that the Palestinians live in a given reality, which serves as a potent breeding ground for such aggressive sentiments. That's not to say that Palestinians are automatically exempt from any considerations such as raised, but things need to be looked at in context.

 

5 hours ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

And yet, you have people living under occupation, in other parts of the world, who do not regularly resort to violence as part of their resistance.

 

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

When did you ever see a 16 years old Israeli girl going out and planning

to knife a Palestinian policeman in order to be a martyr pray tell.....

easy to spew out nonsenses, hard to substantiate....

There are numerous cases of Israeli teens involved in rioting, harassment and violence related to the conflict. Such actions are often directed at Palestinians, Israeli security forces and Israeli NGO's operating in the West Bank. Their motivations, often as not, are the usual mixture of delinquent violence and religious fanaticism.

 

5 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                      That's like saying an Inuit boy learns to kill and skin a seal because he grows up in an icy landscape.  No, he is taught survival skills by his elders.

 

                    The girl, like all Palestinian kids, was taught many negative things by the elders around her, while she was growing up.  She took it seriously and now she's dead.   Palestinians will lionize her - therefore exacerbating problems.

 

                             I worked one summer at a camp in Virginia where Palestinian and Israeli kids were brought together - to interact peacefully/joyfully/cooperatively.   It wasn't a silver bullet solution, but it was steps in the right direction.  Children should have their heads filled with solution-oriented and cooperative thoughts, not thoughts of hate, revenge, polarity, vindictiveness.  

There is little that a girl of her age wouldn't know first hand about the Israeli occupation. Not a whole lot of need to be taught having a negative sentiment toward it. As there are little by way of available details on the case, your decisive pronunciations regarding her motivations are conjecture, at best.

 

Another take, one which relates to the prevalence of female attackers on the current wave of attacks, sees such actions as a sort of an outlet for difficult social circumstances, arising from the traditional, restrictive structure of Palestinian society. Going out in a blaze of nationalistic-religious fervor is one way of dealing with it.

 

As for group encounters - there's quite a bit of research on that. Overall, at least in the context of the conflict, results are inconclusive when it comes to effects. There are good, bad and mediocre examples. Not a general success story.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Essaybloke said:

"Her guardians should be locked up for 5 years and have their tubes tied. ....for being such bad influences."

Mmm yeah, THAT should stop the anger, the desperation, resentment, the hatred, the violence! Luckily for us, we can only imagine what it must be like to live in the world's biggest prison. 

Mixing your run-of-the-mill metaphors there - the last sentence is usually aired with regard to the Gaza Strip.

[boomerangutang]

Maybe this sounds naive, but has there been consideration for Gaza and the W.Bank becoming states of Israel?

 

I think 2 things would have to happen in order for that to happen:  

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                          I know that both of those concepts are anathema to most Palestinians.  Yet how do we really know?  In such places, radical men dominate, so the rest of the populace is required to toe the line.  There are no free and fair votes about such things, let alone free-expression.   Palestinians who even feign to want to cooperate with Israelis are killed outright as traitors.   

 

                         Israel would be open to having those two territories be part of Israel, if the Palestinians' attitudes were cooperative.  The proof is; there are Palestinian-descent people living peacefully in Israel as Israeli citizens.  

 

                        Israelis and Palestinians have no differences genetically.  Certainly no more than a black family and a white family living side by side in Macon Georgia.  The differences are in the peoples' minds, and a mind are a fickle thing.  Proof:  a wife can tell her friend her husband is the loveliest, most true-blue man she knows.  Then, a moment later, the wife finds a used condom in the waste-can in her bedroom, and becomes enraged, calling her husband the most vile person in the world.   The mind is a lump of neurons which can change 180 degrees quicker than a stoplight at an intersection.   If Palestinians could adjust their attitudes, then Israelis would adjust similarly, and within a short time no one could tell one group from the other in a dark room where none were talking.

 

                   P.S. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.  I know this first hand, as I've met some who call themselves Christians.  There again is proof of the mind's fickle nature.  A person can adhere to one belief system in the morning, and pledge allegiance to another system in the afternoon.  

 

                    If Palestinians knew more about the mind, genetics, and belief systems (a.k.a. religions), they would be closer to achieving their goals of wanting decent lives where they can raise families in peace.  Israelis can improve their attitudes also, but I think it's primarily the Palestinian mind-set (imposed by radical Islamists) which is keeping things problematic.  It's that imposed mind-set which contributed to the girl getting killed.   

[damo]

11 hours ago, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

Citation needed.

 

[Jingthing]

Maybe this sounds naive, but has there been consideration for Gaza and the W.Bank becoming states of Israel?

 

I think 2 things would have to happen in order for that to happen:  

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                          I know that both of those concepts are anathema to most Palestinians.  Yet how do we really know?  In such places, radical men dominate, so the rest of the populace is required to toe the line.  There are no free and fair votes about such things, let alone free-expression.   Palestinians who even feign to want to cooperate with Israelis are killed outright as traitors.   

 

                         Israel would be open to having those two territories be part of Israel, if the Palestinians' attitudes were cooperative.  The proof is; there are Palestinian-descent people living peacefully in Israel as Israeli citizens.  

 

                        Israelis and Palestinians have no differences genetically.  Certainly no more than a black family and a white family living side by side in Macon Georgia.  The differences are in the peoples' minds, and a mind are a fickle thing.  Proof:  a wife can tell her friend her husband is the loveliest, most true-blue man she knows.  Then, a moment later, the wife finds a used condom in the waste-can in her bedroom, and becomes enraged, calling her husband the most vile person in the world.   The mind is a lump of neurons which can change 180 degrees quicker than a stoplight at an intersection.   If Palestinians could adjust their attitudes, then Israelis would adjust similarly, and within a short time no one could tell one group from the other in a dark room where none were talking.

 

                   P.S. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.  I know this first hand, as I've met some who call themselves Christians.  There again is proof of the mind's fickle nature.  A person can adhere to one belief system in the morning, and pledge allegiance to another system in the afternoon.  

 

                    If Palestinians knew more about the mind, genetics, and belief systems (a.k.a. religions), they would be closer to achieving their goals of wanting decent lives where they can raise families in peace.  Israelis can improve their attitudes also, but I think it's primarily the Palestinian mind-set (imposed by radical Islamists) which is keeping things problematic.  It's that imposed mind-set which contributed to the girl getting killed.   

An Israel that is majority Palestinian citizens means the end of Israel. Pretty much everyone understands that. Maybe join the club?

 

I realize your post was an effort to think outside the box. To people that support the continued existence of Israel the result of carrying out your idealistic dreams would end up in the box__ the box being a coffin for the state of Israel.

 

Sorry. No matzoh.

 

[Stargeezr]

A knife wielding person can kill someone so for the soldiers to shoot to kill, well I guess they saved one of their own.

  This Isreal and Palestine struggle has been going on since I was born and will be going on long after I die, that

is what I wrote when I was in high school in grade 11, and so far I have been right.Sadly

Geezer

[Essaybloke]

13 hours ago, Morch said:

Mixing your run-of-the-mill metaphors there - the last sentence is usually aired with regard to the Gaza Strip.

Oh thanks for the tip! 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Maybe this sounds naive, but has there been consideration for Gaza and the W.Bank becoming states of Israel?

 

I think 2 things would have to happen in order for that to happen:  

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                          I know that both of those concepts are anathema to most Palestinians.  Yet how do we really know?  In such places, radical men dominate, so the rest of the populace is required to toe the line.  There are no free and fair votes about such things, let alone free-expression.   Palestinians who even feign to want to cooperate with Israelis are killed outright as traitors.   

 

                         Israel would be open to having those two territories be part of Israel, if the Palestinians' attitudes were cooperative.  The proof is; there are Palestinian-descent people living peacefully in Israel as Israeli citizens.  

 

                        Israelis and Palestinians have no differences genetically.  Certainly no more than a black family and a white family living side by side in Macon Georgia.  The differences are in the peoples' minds, and a mind are a fickle thing.  Proof:  a wife can tell her friend her husband is the loveliest, most true-blue man she knows.  Then, a moment later, the wife finds a used condom in the waste-can in her bedroom, and becomes enraged, calling her husband the most vile person in the world.   The mind is a lump of neurons which can change 180 degrees quicker than a stoplight at an intersection.   If Palestinians could adjust their attitudes, then Israelis would adjust similarly, and within a short time no one could tell one group from the other in a dark room where none were talking.

 

                   P.S. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.  I know this first hand, as I've met some who call themselves Christians.  There again is proof of the mind's fickle nature.  A person can adhere to one belief system in the morning, and pledge allegiance to another system in the afternoon.  

 

                    If Palestinians knew more about the mind, genetics, and belief systems (a.k.a. religions), they would be closer to achieving their goals of wanting decent lives where they can raise families in peace.  Israelis can improve their attitudes also, but I think it's primarily the Palestinian mind-set (imposed by radical Islamists) which is keeping things problematic.  It's that imposed mind-set which contributed to the girl getting killed.   

 

About as informed and insightful as Trump's take on the conflict.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

A knife wielding person can kill someone so for the soldiers to shoot to kill, well I guess they saved one of their own.

  This Isreal and Palestine struggle has been going on since I was born and will be going on long after I die, that

is what I wrote when I was in high school in grade 11, and so far I have been right.Sadly

Geezer

 

Any assailant wielding a knife is a threat. Then again, it could be expected that well trained security forces could overcome a teenage girl without use of lethal force.

[boomerangutang]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

An Israel that is majority Palestinian citizens means the end of Israel. Pretty much everyone understands that. Maybe join the club?

I realize your post was an effort to think outside the box. To people that support the continued existence of Israel the result of carrying out your idealistic dreams would end up in the box__ the box being a coffin for the state of Israel.

Sorry. No matzoh.

I don't want to 'join the club.'   'The club' has been to think in polarizing strictures.    'The club' way of thinking has been a long series of dismal failures.   I choose to think in inclusive ways.  

 

If you re-read my post (which u responded to), you'll see that I made 2 basic conditions for a unification to happen.   (sorry to quote myself).....

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                              If those 2 things could happen, Israel could possibly get two added states to their country, and Palestinians would be Israelis.   It would stand to reason that the Palestinian/Israelis would then not want to destroy their own country.  You did make a good point that Palestinian-Israelis would be a majority, so that would likely change the fabric of Israel.   But people generally want to get jobs, make families, be secure, ....essentially the same for people everywhere.    

 

                        in the 18th century, the Americas had bustling trade in blacks coming in from Africa.  No one at that time thought that blacks would one day integrate.   Over a process of 140 years after the Civil War, there has been a mulatto president, many black congresspeople, heads of police forces, top brass in military.  Slave holders like president Jackson would have been astounded by such integration.  Things move forward.

The blacks in positions of influence/power in the US are scant different, today, than whites in similar positions.  Same for Hispanics, Asian-Americans, and so on.

 

                          Similar could happen in Israel.  If it expanded to embrace Gaza and the West Bank, along with agreements of the current residents there, it would move forward -  but only if the residents in that region could get their minds to adjust to the idea of 'we' instead of 'us and them.'    I realize it's too big of a stretch now, but maybe in coming decades, the people in that region will mature enough to accept the concept.

[dexterm]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Maybe this sounds naive, but has there been consideration for Gaza and the W.Bank becoming states of Israel?

 

I think 2 things would have to happen in order for that to happen:  

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                          I know that both of those concepts are anathema to most Palestinians.  Yet how do we really know?  In such places, radical men dominate, so the rest of the populace is required to toe the line.  There are no free and fair votes about such things, let alone free-expression.   Palestinians who even feign to want to cooperate with Israelis are killed outright as traitors.   

 

                         Israel would be open to having those two territories be part of Israel, if the Palestinians' attitudes were cooperative.  The proof is; there are Palestinian-descent people living peacefully in Israel as Israeli citizens.  

 

                        Israelis and Palestinians have no differences genetically.  Certainly no more than a black family and a white family living side by side in Macon Georgia.  The differences are in the peoples' minds, and a mind are a fickle thing.  Proof:  a wife can tell her friend her husband is the loveliest, most true-blue man she knows.  Then, a moment later, the wife finds a used condom in the waste-can in her bedroom, and becomes enraged, calling her husband the most vile person in the world.   The mind is a lump of neurons which can change 180 degrees quicker than a stoplight at an intersection.   If Palestinians could adjust their attitudes, then Israelis would adjust similarly, and within a short time no one could tell one group from the other in a dark room where none were talking.

 

                   P.S. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.  I know this first hand, as I've met some who call themselves Christians.  There again is proof of the mind's fickle nature.  A person can adhere to one belief system in the morning, and pledge allegiance to another system in the afternoon.  

 

                    If Palestinians knew more about the mind, genetics, and belief systems (a.k.a. religions), they would be closer to achieving their goals of wanting decent lives where they can raise families in peace.  Israelis can improve their attitudes also, but I think it's primarily the Palestinian mind-set (imposed by radical Islamists) which is keeping things problematic.  It's that imposed mind-set which contributed to the girl getting killed.   

>>Maybe this sounds naive, but has there been consideration for Gaza and the W.Bank becoming states of Israel?

 

Not naive. That is exactly what will eventually happen. 

 

Maybe in the short term as Israel sleepwalks into a one state solution in its greed to annex the whole of historical Palestine... perhaps after a painful period of overt apartheid first. Or in the long term as the two peoples realize the benefits of living side by side in a two state solution or in some sort of confederation. 

 

JT is quite right too. It would be the end of Jewish racist supremacy, because Palestinians would outnumber them. That is why Israel illegally refuses to allow Palestinians it ethnically cleansed to return to their homes inside Israel.

 

So sad that this young girl will not be around to see it. 

[i claudius]

On 5/8/2017 at 8:26 AM, johna said:

No, she learned all those things living under Israeli occupation. 

 

No she learnt it from the likes of Hamas who send rockets into Israel to kill inocent people , and from narrow minded people like you .

[boomerangutang]

                         Perhaps a step toward sanity would be integrated schools, where Israeli, Palestinian, and whomever other kids could go to together.  No specialized head gear, yamakas, scraves, or other identifying clothing allowed.  Ok, perhaps one day per week, like happens here in a local Chiang Rai school (the kids are various hill tribes), kids could wear their identifying colors/head coverings, whatever.    

 

                          The problem is, because the kids would likely reside at their homes, they get indoctrinated with the hate/prejudices their parents and elder siblings carry around.   Perhaps if the kids went to boarding schools, but there again, they'd probably divvy up into gangs - similar to what happens in prisons.   Prejudices are harder to rub out than birthmarks.

 

[dexterm]

8 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                         Perhaps a step toward sanity would be integrated schools, where Israeli, Palestinian, and whomever other kids could go to together.  No specialized head gear, yamakas, scraves, or other identifying clothing allowed.  Ok, perhaps one day per week, like happens here in a local Chiang Rai school (the kids are various hill tribes), kids could wear their identifying colors/head coverings, whatever.    

 

                          The problem is, because the kids would likely reside at their homes, they get indoctrinated with the hate/prejudices their parents and elder siblings carry around.   Perhaps if the kids went to boarding schools, but there again, they'd probably divvy up into gangs - similar to what happens in prisons.   Prejudices are harder to rub out than birthmarks.

 

I agree.
 
Israel should end segregated schooling. Children would find it very difficult to grow up hating their classmates.

 

If parents want religious education, they should pay for every last cent themselves. But tax payers money should not be spent perpetuating differences in society.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

I don't want to 'join the club.'   'The club' has been to think in polarizing strictures.    'The club' way of thinking has been a long series of dismal failures.   I choose to think in inclusive ways.  

 

If you re-read my post (which u responded to), you'll see that I made 2 basic conditions for a unification to happen.   (sorry to quote myself).....

 

#1 Palestinians would have to put their self-burnished pride aside, and....

 

#2 have to accept that Israel is the dominant force in that region, compared to the Palestinians.

 

                              If those 2 things could happen, Israel could possibly get two added states to their country, and Palestinians would be Israelis.   It would stand to reason that the Palestinian/Israelis would then not want to destroy their own country.  You did make a good point that Palestinian-Israelis would be a majority, so that would likely change the fabric of Israel.   But people generally want to get jobs, make families, be secure, ....essentially the same for people everywhere.    

 

                        in the 18th century, the Americas had bustling trade in blacks coming in from Africa.  No one at that time thought that blacks would one day integrate.   Over a process of 140 years after the Civil War, there has been a mulatto president, many black congresspeople, heads of police forces, top brass in military.  Slave holders like president Jackson would have been astounded by such integration.  Things move forward.

The blacks in positions of influence/power in the US are scant different, today, than whites in similar positions.  Same for Hispanics, Asian-Americans, and so on.

 

                          Similar could happen in Israel.  If it expanded to embrace Gaza and the West Bank, along with agreements of the current residents there, it would move forward -  but only if the residents in that region could get their minds to adjust to the idea of 'we' instead of 'us and them.'    I realize it's too big of a stretch now, but maybe in coming decades, the people in that region will mature enough to accept the concept.

 

Palestinians are not interested in being Israeli. What they opt for is self-determination. The only angle in which such scenarios are acceptable to them is when they involve Palestinian dominance. A turning of tables.

 

Israelis (or more correctly, Israeli Jews) are generally not in favor of turning their country into yet another failed Arab state. Nor do they place a whole lot of trust that such heavy on unfounded optimism, light on realism approaches would play out as promised.

 

The various repeated applications of "stands to reason" etc. ignore that people do not always act according to reason. Especially not in the context of such conflict, and not when it involves religious elements.

 

Such outcomes, if at all, aren't going to be achieved by dictates, or by short term solutions. Historically, they involve economic, social and political processes spanning generations. A ways out of the scope of planned, induced change.

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                         Perhaps a step toward sanity would be integrated schools, where Israeli, Palestinian, and whomever other kids could go to together.  No specialized head gear, yamakas, scraves, or other identifying clothing allowed.  Ok, perhaps one day per week, like happens here in a local Chiang Rai school (the kids are various hill tribes), kids could wear their identifying colors/head coverings, whatever.    

 

                          The problem is, because the kids would likely reside at their homes, they get indoctrinated with the hate/prejudices their parents and elder siblings carry around.   Perhaps if the kids went to boarding schools, but there again, they'd probably divvy up into gangs - similar to what happens in prisons.   Prejudices are harder to rub out than birthmarks.

 

 

School integration, by itself, is not a prescription for success. It doesn't even produce desired change in less complicated situations. And, of course, nothing by way of addressing how such an undertaking is to be approached, or even an inkling of acknowledgment that sides (and factions within each side) aren't all that much into it.

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I agree.
 
Israel should end segregated schooling. Children would find it very difficult to grow up hating their classmates.

 

If parents want religious education, they should pay for every last cent themselves. But tax payers money should not be spent perpetuating differences in society.

 

The usual load of BS.

 

Israel does not control or manage the Palestinian education system. Not in the West Bank, and certainly not in the Gaza Strip. Within Israel, the issue of segregation applies mostly to the Jewish population, and mostly along the religious/sacrilegious divide. 

 

Arab students are not barred from studying in Israeli sacrilegious schools. The "segregation", in this case, is more to do with geography and main language preferences.

 

 

[johna]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Palestinians are not interested in being Israeli. What they opt for is self-determination. The only angle in which such scenarios are acceptable to them is when they involve Palestinian dominance. A turning of tables.

 

Israelis (or more correctly, Israeli Jews) are generally not in favor of turning their country into yet another failed Arab state. Nor do they place a whole lot of trust that such heavy on unfounded optimism, light on realism approaches would play out as promised.

 

The various repeated applications of "stands to reason" etc. ignore that people do not always act according to reason. Especially not in the context of such conflict, and not when it involves religious elements.

 

Such outcomes, if at all, aren't going to be achieved by dictates, or by short term solutions. Historically, they involve economic, social and political processes spanning generations. A ways out of the scope of planned, induced change.

3

Palestinians want a Palestinian State completely separate from Israel. Your assertion that Palestinians want dominance over Isreal is ridiculous.