onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Khun Han said: Well, actually, I do think that Luke was murdered. But in the sentence you quoted, I used the word 'died'. That he died is a bald fact. Or are you insinuating that he's not dead? Anyone else noticed that the Koh Tao mafia apologists struggle to refer to the assorted victims of the Koh Tao 'jinx' by name? They can usually go through a full, lengthy post referring to the deceased/missing as 'he' or 'she'. I find that quite telling: it's much easier to be disingenuous about somebody when you de-humanise them. Once again, I have to ask where is your evidence that Luke was murdered and by the Thai mafia? 2 hours ago, Khun Han said: Whilst I have no doubt Caroline Sumeray is an excellent coroner (though obviously naiive about the ways of Koh Tao's 'Deliverance' police), the best thing Luke's family and friends could do is get at least one other professional opinion on the injuries. Now you think you know better than the official UK Caroline Sumeray who directly examined the body? Lets see what her qualifications are: ------- Caroline Sumeray - Inquests, Public Inquiries and Coronial Law QUALIFICATIONS LLB (Hons), Diploma in Forensic Medical Sciences (DipFMS) MEMBERSHIPS The Coroners' Society; South East England Coroners' Society, Southern England Coroners’ Society; SE Circuit; CBA; British Academy of Forensic Sciences; Forensic Science Society; Justice; Amnesty International; Association of Women Barristers. APPOINTMENTS HM Senior Coroner for the Isle of Wight [part time jurisdiction] Assistant Coroner for The City of Manchester Assistant Coroner for Swansea & Neath Port Talbot Assistant Coroner for the Western District of West Yorkshire Assistant Coroner for Cheshire Assistant Coroner for the District of Inner London North Assistant Coroner for East London PREVIOUSLY HELD APPOINTMENTS Assistant Coroner for Outer London North. ------- I'm just wondering what qualifications or relevant experience you posses which leads you to believe you know something she doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, onthesoi said: Once again, I have to ask where is your evidence that Luke was murdered and by the Thai mafia? Now you think you know better than the official UK Caroline Sumeray who directly examined the body? Lets see what her qualifications are: ------- Caroline Sumeray - Inquests, Public Inquiries and Coronial Law QUALIFICATIONS LLB (Hons), Diploma in Forensic Medical Sciences (DipFMS) MEMBERSHIPS The Coroners' Society; South East England Coroners' Society, Southern England Coroners’ Society; SE Circuit; CBA; British Academy of Forensic Sciences; Forensic Science Society; Justice; Amnesty International; Association of Women Barristers. APPOINTMENTS HM Senior Coroner for the Isle of Wight [part time jurisdiction] Assistant Coroner for The City of Manchester Assistant Coroner for Swansea & Neath Port Talbot Assistant Coroner for the Western District of West Yorkshire Assistant Coroner for Cheshire Assistant Coroner for the District of Inner London North Assistant Coroner for East London PREVIOUSLY HELD APPOINTMENTS Assistant Coroner for Outer London North. ------- I'm just wondering what qualifications or relevant experience you posses which leads you to believe you know something she doesn't? Firstly, I (and more importantly the Gissing siblings who were actually there) think the Koh Tao 'Deliverance' police investigation was a sham and cover up. Secondly, the answer to your nonsense about my views on Caroline Sumeray is in the post that you quoted. And I really don't know how my suggestion that Luke's family and friends should seek a second opinion could be interpreted as me claiming to be better qualified to be a coroner. I guess it's just your mindset of intellectual dishonesty getting in your way as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsamui Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 21 hours ago, frank83628 said: why leave the body in your own pool if you murdered someone? Why leave the bodies of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller out in the open? Or now there is so much international media attention to Koh Toa, maybe better to just disappear them, like Valentina Novozhyonova disappeared without trace last March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, robsamui said: Why leave the bodies of Hannah and David out in the open? That's a good question if the 'mafia' committed the murders. Did they had the resources to take the bodies out to sea and dump them?Surely that would have been better than leaving them near their' hunting ground', the AC bar 1? Perhaps the 'mafia' didn't murder them. But alas you digress. This thread is about the determination of Khun Han's determination to prove Luke Miller was murdered. He has no evidence, only the suspicions of Luke Miller's friends, but the coroner has decided there is no evidence Luke was murdered so until Miller's friends can produce more evidence the case is seemingly closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsamui Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, bannork said: This thread is about the determination of Khun Han's determination to prove Luke Miller was murdered. He has no evidence, only the suspicions of Luke Miller's friends, but the coroner has decided there is no evidence Luke was murdered so until Miller's friends can produce more evidence the case is seemingly closed. Well, that seems to be your agenda for some reason This thread is about Edited June 18, 2017 by robsamui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Firstly, I (and more importantly the Gissing siblings who were actually there) think the Koh Tao 'Deliverance' police investigation was a sham and cover up. Secondly, the answer to your nonsense about my views on Caroline Sumeray is in the post that you quoted. And I really don't know how my suggestion that Luke's family and friends should seek a second opinion could be interpreted as me claiming to be better qualified to be a coroner. I guess it's just your mindset of intellectual dishonesty getting in your way as usual. Firstly, I'm still not seeing you provide any evidence to back up your claim that Luke was: a)murdered & b)at the hands of the Thai Mafia? Secondly, Do you not even bother to read your own posts? You described Caroline Sumeray as being "obviously naiive" which implies you see yourself as being better informed than a high profile, over qualified and vastly experienced UK coroner. Edited June 18, 2017 by onthesoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, onthesoi said: Firstly, I'm still not seeing you provide any evidence to back up your claim that Luke was: a)murdered & b)at the hands of the Thai Mafia? Secondly, Do you not even bother to read your own posts? You described Caroline Sumeray as being "obviously naiive" which implies you see yourself as being better informed than a high profile, over qualified and vastly experienced UK coroner. The Gissings were on the island. You and I were not. The Gissings have flagged up several serious issues, including missing cctv, which have convinced them that there was a cover up. Like I said, they were there, you were not. And the intellectual dishonesty shines through again: I referred to Caroline Sumeray as obviously naiive in relation to Koh Tao's 'Deliverance' police. And yes, actually, I do have far more direct experience of the RTP than her, and I am better informed on that subject than her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Khun Han said: The Gissings were on the island. You and I were not. The Gissings have flagged up several serious issues, including missing cctv, which have convinced them that there was a cover up. Like I said, they were there, you were not. And the intellectual dishonesty shines through again: I referred to Caroline Sumeray as obviously naiive in relation to Koh Tao's 'Deliverance' police. And yes, actually, I do have far more direct experience of the RTP than her, and I am better informed on that subject than her. I'm still not seeing you provide any evidence to back up your claim that Luke was: a)murdered & b)at the hands of the Thai Mafia? Wait ...are you saying you have more direct experience of the RTP than the UK coroner who liaised with the RTP as part of her report? ...& if as if that wasn't enough, you're also saying you are better informed about the murder than the UK coroner who actually led the investigation and examined the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Khun Han said: The Gissings were on the island. You and I were not. The Gissings have flagged up several serious issues, including missing cctv, which have convinced them that there was a cover up. Like I said, they were there, you were not. And the intellectual dishonesty shines through again: I referred to Caroline Sumeray as obviously naiive in relation to Koh Tao's 'Deliverance' police. And yes, actually, I do have far more direct experience of the RTP than her, and I am better informed on that subject than her. Do you know Caroline Sumeray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, onthesoi said: I'm still not seeing you provide any evidence to back up your claim that Luke was: a)murdered & b)at the hands of the Thai Mafia? Wait ...are you saying you have more direct experience of the RTP than the UK coroner who liaised with the RTP as part of her report? ...& if as if that wasn't enough, you're also saying you are better informed about the murder than the UK coroner who actually led the investigation and examined the body? More intellectual honesty from you. Yes, I am saying that I have far more experience of the RTP than Caroline Sumeray. And Caroline Sumeray did not lead the investigation: she conducted a post mortem on Luke's embalmed body and conducted an inquest which resulted in her declaring an open verdict based on the facts that were at her disposal. I expect, had Caroline been funded to spend some time on Koh Tao doing some further investigation, she would have had the same concerns as the Gissings. But a coroner is only allowed to work with the facts and evidence that they are given. If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Edited June 18, 2017 by Khun Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, bannork said: Do you know Caroline Sumeray? Oh dear, mr facetious is back. Why don't you write to her and ask her about her experience of Thailand. I won't bother because I've seen her cv and know that she's never lived there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Oh dear, mr facetious is back. Why don't you write to her and ask her about her experience of Thailand. I won't bother because I've seen her cv and know that she's never lived there. But she knows what injuries suggest and you don't. And who knows? perhaps she has heard about the Thai police, She may even have heard of the David and Hannah case!!! Your accusations of her naivety could be misplaced........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 minute ago, bannork said: But she knows what injuries suggest and you don't. And who knows? perhaps she has heard about the Thai police, She may even have heard of the David and Hannah case!!! Your accusations of her naivety could be misplaced........ Anyway, I'm off to enjoy a nice Father's Day lunch with my wife and kids here in the safety of the UK. Something that Luke Miller will never get the opportunity to do because of the murderous scumbags that you, for whatever twisted reason, defend so determinedly . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, Khun Han said: Anyway, I'm off to enjoy a nice Father's Day lunch with my wife and kids here in the safety of the UK. Something that Luke Miller will never get the opportunity to do because of the murderous scumbags that you, for whatever twisted reason, defend so determinedly . I was back in the UK in April. Freezing it was- dunno about safety, there were constant warnings about pickpockets and thefts over the loudspeaker at Paddington station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank83628 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Khun Han said: It was the Gissing siblings who attended the morgue and secretly took photographs, some of which they said showed handprint-style bruises. Whilst I have no doubt Caroline Sumeray is an excellent coroner (though obviously naiive about the ways of Koh Tao's 'Deliverance' police), the best thing Luke's family and friends could do is get at least one other professional opinion on the injuries. and of course you know better than all the police, coroners or anyone else that has had to make a report, statement or actually been involved ....from behind your computer screen! the coroner is a professional and made her report based on what she saw and read....you however are not and haven't seen anything other than Facebook comments and some internet articles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank83628 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 hours ago, Khun Han said: Well, actually, I do think that Luke was murdered. But in the sentence you quoted, I used the word 'died'. That he died is a bald fact. Or are you insinuating that he's not dead? Anyone else noticed that the Koh Tao mafia apologists struggle to refer to the assorted victims of the Koh Tao 'jinx' by name? They can usually go through a full, lengthy post referring to the deceased/missing as 'he' or 'she'. I find that quite telling: it's much easier to be disingenuous about somebody when you de-humanise them. well the corner doesn't, so i guess her professional opinion has more clout than your TV one the whole 'mafia apologist' thing...it doesn't bother me in the slightest, however, it makes you look a tad immature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthesoi Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Khun Han said: More intellectual honesty from you. Yes, I am saying that I have far more experience of the RTP than Caroline Sumeray. And Caroline Sumeray did not lead the investigation: she conducted a post mortem on Luke's embalmed body and conducted an inquest which resulted in her declaring an open verdict based on the facts that were at her disposal. I expect, had Caroline been funded to spend some time on Koh Tao doing some further investigation, she would have had the same concerns as the Gissings. But a coroner is only allowed to work with the facts and evidence that they are given. If you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Well, thanks for saying my posts are "intellectually honest"...I do try! However, a post mortem is an investigation and an inquest also qualifies as a investigation ...and as Caroline Sumeray is in charge of the inquest and is also the coroner then it's safe to say she did lead the investigation. Let me know if you need any further help with the English language and I'll drop everything and come running. As for the rest of your post(s) ... I think someone needs an early night. Edited June 18, 2017 by onthesoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuijimmy Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Ok enough bickering as usually it's going no where; There have been enough warnings. Closed// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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