Getting a Thai Taxpayer Identification Number - Downside?

[higg1279]

Going to speak with an Expats Thai Accountant, about obtaining a TIN. The Application Form is in Thai and it seems, only a Residential address and Passport are required for the time being. Reason for Application will be due to Banking requirements. Will keep you posted!

[Tanoshi]

Passport (ID) and proof of address the only requirement.

The revenue department should complete the form on your behalf.

15 minutes later your registered for online use with a TIN and password.

[userabcd]

5 hours ago, higg1279 said:

Thank you for the info Maestro, but the last article is purely between the USA and Thailand (The Income Tax Treaty Between the United States and Thailand), so of benefit for a USA resident here in Thailand, but not me fortunately. I also believe it doesn't matter where you reside in the world, the USA is looking to extract Tax from their Citizens for any revenue earned. Grossly unfair, but that's another topic!

 

https://www.isla-offshore.com/going-offshore/tax-havens-information-exchange/

 

Based on this article above, Thailand isn't on the list as a Tax Sharing information Country.

 

 

From KPMG: At present, Thailand can provide and exchange financial information upon the request by other countries through the exchange of information clause in double tax treaties.

[higg1279]

We're slightly digressing here, however according to the Isle Of Man Bank (telecom this week) they do not share any Bank Acct information with Thailand, at present, as there is no agreement in place, to report parties who reside in Thailand and have Bank Acct held with them, to the Thai Tax Authorities. 

 

Therefore, if you complete the Tax Residency Application and certify you are living in Thailand, with a Thai Tax ID No, that will satisfy their requirement of self certification of living in Thailand for Tax purposes. If you don't, you maybe subject to further questions, like other people on this forum. Some have presented a reasonable defence and no more questions asked, others not so fortunate and been subject to the third degree of interrogation.

[partington]

5 hours ago, userabcd said:

From KPMG: At present, Thailand can provide and exchange financial information upon the request by other countries through the exchange of information clause in double tax treaties.

Exactly, If information about a specific person is requested there is a mechanism in place for it to be given. Most countries with tax treaties have agreed to give information on specific cases on request.

 

This is quite a different issue from the automatic exchange of information between signatories to CRS that is the basis for the current gathering of TIN information by banks.

 

CRS is automatic sharing that is systematic and unrequested.

[Crisu]

Passport (ID) and proof of address the only requirement. The revenue department should complete the form on your behalf. 15 minutes later your registered for online use with a TIN and password. 

 

 

 This is not working in phuket: 

"Mr. you need business or employment to get TIN"

 

This i was told 3 weeks ago. The other option would be to reclaim withholding tax from a fixed bank deposit.

 

 

Can i apply at another revenue department for a TIN then the one at the area where i live?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[korkenzieher]

I had a lot of grief yesterday from a big Green bank in the UK, who inherited my CI based account from HBOS in 2008, about this particular issue. It seems as though the solution - so far at least - is to switch the account from savings to current. If there is no income generated on the account, then it is not flagged for having a tax liability (or reporting requirement), or so it seems. After a couple of extremely heated and frustrating hours of phone calls with their international section (why *exactly* I am expected to return information to a jurisdiction in which I am not resident (25 years+), and do not have a bank account, [ the one under discussion was only opened after I left the UK]; is *completely* beyond me). So I called the branch and simply asked them to stop paying me interest. Girl said it would be processed within 2 days, and I should stop receiving the letters. I live in hope (though not expectation!).

Edited December 6, 2017 by korkenzieher

[higg1279]

Based on the information I've discovered, there doesn't seem to be much of a downside for having a TIN in Thailand, apart from submitting a Tax declaration Form at the end of March for a nominal amount. However applying for one and the application being accepted are a different matter. Initially to apply for a TIN based on overseas income, I was told I would require the following:

 

1) Thai Application Form

2) Confirmation of address

3) Copy of your Passport

 

On presentation of the above, I was then told I need more information, which includes the following:

 

1) Bank Statement

2) Landlord House Registration Documents

3) Landlord ID

4) Letter from the Landlord confirming I live at said address.

 

This time, I thought I had all my cards in order, presented them to the same Clerk, thinking only 10mins and I'll have my TIN. No... The Clerk or her Boss had moved the Goal Posts. Now they require the following:

 

1) Evidence that I've stayed in Thailand 180 days plus in 2017, with Visa Stamp confirmation within my Passport. NB If you have other Annual Visa's and are only just applying, they will ask what about your income for the previous year!

2) Income from Jan - Dec 17 highlighted in my Bank Acct or other evidence of income.

 

Bottom line is it's not a 10-15 min job in Phuket anyway (Nov/Dec 2017) and they are not giving away TIN easy, even if you advise it's for the Bank. The next question will be, which Bank!

 

I hope this helps people.......

[Crisu]

 
Bottom line is it's not a 10-15 min job in Phuket anyway (Nov/Dec 2017) and they are not giving away TIN easy, even if you advise it's for the Bank.

My hope is, if you just reclaim the withholding tax on interest from a fixed deposit account, its just a question of some min.
For that you first need interest from a fixed deposit and second have to wait until the end of the year.
This is what a lawyer told me about 3 weeks ago in patong.
I think i will give it a try next year.

[higg1279]

6 minutes ago, Crisu said:

 

My hope is, if you just reclaim the withholding tax on interest from a fixed deposit account, its just a question of some min.
For that you first need interest from a fixed deposit and second have to wait until the end of the year.
This is what a lawyer told me about 3 weeks ago in patong.
I think i will give it a try next year.
 

 

 

[korkenzieher]

Thus far, I have only been hassled by one account provider out of 4 - and it is the only interest bearing account. I have asked them to revert the account to non-interest bearing (I was only receiving something like £1.30 per month!), and it seems that that is the red-flag issue - where do they tell the UK that I file for tax on that £1.30.

 

Hoping it goes away in the new year...

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 11/25/2017 at 3:50 PM, JimGant said:

OP, yeah the new W8BEN does ask for your foreign TIN. But it isn't an absolute. Read the instructions, quoted in part, below:

 

"If you are providing this form to document a financial account described above but you do not enter a TIN on line 6, and you are not a resident of a U.S. possession, you must provide the withholding agent with an
explanation for why you have not been issued a TIN. For this purpose, an explanation is a statement that you are not legally required to obtain a TIN in your jurisdiction of tax residence. The explanation may be written on line 6, in the margins of the form, or on a separate attached statement associated with the form. If you are writing the explanation on line 6, you may shorten it to “not legally
required.” Do not write “not applicable.”

 

Sounds reasonable, for your situation.

Jim,

 

Thanks.  It seems in July they changed the instructions and so it's now easier to avoid the need for a TIN.  I was still using the older W-8BEN  and instructions and went ahead and got a Thai TIN.  So far no problems with it.  

[flbkk]

I applied to tax ID at Bang Na office, very difficult. They need: application, Passport, lease, embassy letter or residence, landlord's ID, house book of the condo, even though I am not on it, deed for condo, landlord's house book where he lives, bank book, and form in thai signed by landlord stating I have permission to have a tax ID while living at his condo.  I was going to give up but landlord and the man at the tax office said this is normal and I should work with the process. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by flbkk

[Scottjouro]

On 11/29/2017 at 3:55 PM, userabcd said:

From KPMG: At present, Thailand can provide and exchange financial information upon the request by other countries through the exchange of information clause in double tax treaties.

I think your getting confused with "can provide" infomation and the OECD agreement where 51 countries (maybe more now) will automatically share mass data of bank accounts and personal details of each countries citizens who have signed the agreement

 

Thailand is not a signatory to this agreement currently to  automatically share mass data, but per the quote above will share info if so requested on specific individuals 

[Scottjouro]

On 11/29/2017 at 4:50 PM, higg1279 said:

We're slightly digressing here, however according to the Isle Of Man Bank (telecom this week) they do not share any Bank Acct information with Thailand, at present, as there is no agreement in place, to report parties who reside in Thailand and have Bank Acct held with them, to the Thai Tax Authorities. 

 

Therefore, if you complete the Tax Residency Application and certify you are living in Thailand, with a Thai Tax ID No, that will satisfy their requirement of self certification of living in Thailand for Tax purposes. If you don't, you maybe subject to further questions, like other people on this forum. Some have presented a reasonable defence and no more questions asked, others not so fortunate and been subject to the third degree of interrogation.

Even if they signed the agreement, the IOM would only share information of Thai Citizens holding accounts in the IOM, not foreigners, residing in Thailand, on the other hand Thailand would provide info of say all British citizens holding accounts in Thailand. The IOM will report accounts based on the passport the account was opened with, therefore British citizens, residing in Thailand with accounts in the IOM will be reported to the UK tax man

 

 

[jkthai]

It seems it makes things a lot simpler when completing the forms if you can provide a Thai TIN ,

but appears a bit more difficult obtaining one in some areas of the country.

 

My problem is I spend a lot of time in Serviced apartments , so have no permanent residence as such , would expect if \I applied to the tax office they would make that an issue

 

Any one got any alternative suggestions

[Scottjouro]

6 minutes ago, jkthai said:

It seems it makes things a lot simpler when completing the forms if you can provide a Thai TIN ,

but appears a bit more difficult obtaining one in some areas of the country.

 

My problem is I spend a lot of time in Serviced apartments , so have no permanent residence as such , would expect if \I applied to the tax office they would make that an issue

 

Any one got any alternative suggestions

Are you in Thailand more than 180 days a year ?...if your not, you cannot be resident for tax purposes in Thailand 

[jkthai]

Quote

Yep  will be over 180 days this year

 

[Scottjouro]

19 minutes ago, jkthai said:

 

So your resident for tax then, living in serviced apartments  shouldnt be an issue then