Being Stopped at the Border and Visa Extensions

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Correct Joe 

OR what if your plans were to leave by sea or cross a land boarder ( like some of these idiotic airlines need to realize )

 

 

20 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

How would the I/O know you were asked to produce a ticket when you applied for the visa?

 

I doubt even the best I/O in Thailand knows the visa application requirements for every single Thai Embassy/Consulate in the world

Sounds like a good reason to check for the ticket ?.

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Correct Joe 

OR what if your plans were to leave by sea or cross a land boarder ( like some of these idiotic airlines need to realize )

 

In that case you didn't meet the original requirement, see the link posted earlier.

[lindlake]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You son apparently did not have a valid visa for entry. A ticket out out of the country within 30 days is required for a visa exempt entry.

ok thank you we allways stay for 6 weeks on hoildays

 

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

 

 

[Enoon]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yes there is a requirement. It just isn't usually enforced by consular services or the border IO's.

 

From the MFA website;

2. TOURIST VISA

- Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)

 

Spot the difference.  I have not re-arranged or re-formatted either block of text copied from:

 

First, the link you gave (Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Thailand):

	2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED
	- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months   - Visa application form completely filled out   - Recent( 4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant   - Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)   - Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family)   - Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

Second, Royal Thai Embassy(London) website:

 

           For Single Entry 

•  A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application
•  Visa application form completely filled out
• Two (2) recent (2 x 2 inches) photos of the applicant
• Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary.

 

How welcoming to be set up thus by ones "hosts".

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Enoon

[silverado1]

15 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Spot the difference.  I have not re-arranged or re-formatted either block of text copied from:

 

First, the link you gave:

	2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED
	- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months   - Visa application form completely filled out   - Recent( 4 x 6 cm.) photograph of the applicant   - Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)   - Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family)   - Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary

Second, Royal Thai Embassy(London) website:

 

           For Single Entry 

•  A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application
•  Visa application form completely filled out
• Two (2) recent (2 x 2 inches) photos of the applicant
• Consular officers reserve the rights to request additional documents as deemed necessary.

 

How welcoming to be set up thus by ones "hosts".

 

 

 

excuse me Enoon , but are you sure  that the embassy in london haven't updated this ??? in belgium (and many others) anyway they ask 1) proof of income , 2) hotel booking (or invitation from people  who must prove their address in thailand), 3) bank statement (in belgium) at least 600 euros permanently on an account the last 6 months for the Setv , 6.000 for the Met 

Edited August 28, 2017 by silverado1

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, silverado1 said:

excuse me Enoon , but are you sure  that the embassy in london haven't updated this ??? in belgium (and many others) anyway they ask 1) proof of income , 2) hotel booking (or invitation from people  who must prove their address in thailand), 3) bank statement (in belgium) at least 600 euros permanently on an account the last 6 months for the Setv , 6.000 for the Met 

The don't ask for any more than is shown on that list at the embassy in London or any of the consulates in the UK.

It seems you are dealing at an embassy that is over the top with their requirements for a single entry tourist visa.

 

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, Scott3000 said:

I had issues at BKK in January, and DMK in March. The second was particularly bad, as I was pulled aside for questioning, then allowed to take my continuing flight to CNX. The IO told me that I could "have Chiang Mai Immigration deal with this". Caused me some anxiety, but the folks at Chiang Mai processed my extension like the routine procedure that it was, without the unnecessary hassle.

 

So my question is: When folks say this problem is occurring at "the airport"  -- are you referring to the two airports in Bangkok, or any airport in general? Perhaps CNX and others would be better points of entry, when possible???

Given we have not heard any horror-stories from CNX, it is possible that they are following the actual laws/rules, and not enforcing wishful/imaginary ones.  Phuket and some of the smaller airports had troublesome reports even before this IO-clique "assimilated" DMK Immigration, and then BKK (swampy). 

 

The biggest warning-sign for me, was when the IOs at Poipet/Aranyaprathet started telling people that if they returned on valid-visas, they could only enter Thailand by "flying in" - while borders a few kilometers south of there (Ban Packard / Ban Laem) are still following the actual laws/rules.  Clearly, this is a coordinated effort - not just a "random IO having a bad-day" problem.

Edited August 29, 2017 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, lkv said:

That's incorrect. The fact that some consulates don't follow that rule or that most Immigration does not check, it is a requirement to have a paid exit ticket along with 20K baht.

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

 

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yes there is a requirement. It just isn't usually enforced by consular services or the border IO's.

From the MFA website;

2. TOURIST VISA

- Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)

You are both correct about the MFA application rules - though these are not enforced uniformly by the Consulates under their control.  If some/all MFA-visa regulations - some of which are not imposed at many/most consulates - are all subject to secondary-validation by Immigration, then there needs to be an update to airline boarding rules in accordance with this policy.

Airlines should immediately begin requiring all travelers to Thailand with Tourist visas to show they have an outgoing-ticket.  They also should ask each passenger with any Visa for entry (vs re-entry permit) to show 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks, before permitting them to board an airplane to Thailand.   Those coming in visa-exempt should be asked to show 10K Baht worth, plus their air-ticket out (the latter currently required by many/most airlines).   Currently, there is a myth in the airline-rules claiming that plastic-accessible money is sufficient, but multiple denied-entry reports show this is not true.

 

It would seem that travelers may be getting caught in an internal power-feud between a faction/clique of IOs, the MFA, and even those at the highest levels of police-authority, who recently added the "2x-max per calendar-year Visa-Exempt Land-Border crossing" rule, but declined to impose additional rules for those entering with Tourist Visas. 

 

Travelers need to be aware/warned of all the requirements that may be imposed on them to enter Thailand, both with or without a visa, as they are currently-enforced.

[elviajero]

On 8/29/2017 at 5:28 AM, JackThompson said:

You are both correct about the MFA application rules - though these are not enforced uniformly by the Consulates under their control.  If some/all MFA-visa regulations - some of which are not imposed at many/most consulates - are all subject to secondary-validation by Immigration, then there needs to be an update to airline boarding rules in accordance with this policy.

Airlines should immediately begin requiring all travelers to Thailand with Tourist visas to show they have an outgoing-ticket.  They also should ask each passenger with any Visa for entry (vs re-entry permit) to show 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks, before permitting them to board an airplane to Thailand.   Those coming in visa-exempt should be asked to show 10K Baht worth, plus their air-ticket out (the latter currently required by many/most airlines).   Currently, there is a myth in the airline-rules claiming that plastic-accessible money is sufficient, but multiple denied-entry reports show this is not true.

 

It would seem that travelers may be getting caught in an internal power-feud between a faction/clique of IOs, the MFA, and even those at the highest levels of police-authority, who recently added the "2x-max per calendar-year Visa-Exempt Land-Border crossing" rule, but declined to impose additional rules for those entering with Tourist Visas. 

 

Travelers need to be aware/warned of all the requirements that may be imposed on them to enter Thailand, both with or without a visa, as they are currently-enforced.

I think you are missing the point of why IO's occasionally ask to see the onward flight.

 

As far as I know there is no rule/regulation that gives IO's the power to deny entry specifically because the visitor doesn't have an onward ticket. They are, however, under orders to scrutinise long term tourists to evidence if they are 'typical/genuine' tourists. The vast majority of the typical/genuine tourists entering the country will have hotel bookings/onward flights, so if an IO suspects the person is working, or overdoing tourist entries, that is what they are ordered to ask for. Doesn't prove anything in my opinion, but that's how it is.

 

As usual we are discussing a problem experienced by a minority of visitors that are pushing their luck as long term tourists. For the majority of tourists having to provide an onward flight to consular services isn't be an issue because they'd have one, and immigration seem to only be targeting a certain group of tourists. We will no doubt continue to hear such stories as the clampdown on long term tourism continues.

[elviajero]

On 8/28/2017 at 11:36 AM, ubonjoe said:

No it is not. There is no rule that states a ticket out is needed for an entry with any visa.

I didn't say there was.

 

On 8/28/2017 at 11:36 AM, ubonjoe said:

An entry from a visa is open ended since most can be extended. 

That doesn't really make sense. An entry ends the second you've entered, and permission to stay is always granted for a specific period. The most time someone can stay for tourism is 90 days per entry. It's the law.

 

My point was simply that asking to see an onward ticket is reasonable given the MFA guidelines. Denying entry because of not have an onward flight would be unreasonable, and as far as I can see that didn't happen.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

... Denying entry because of not have an onward flight would be unreasonable, and as far as I can see that didn't happen.

 

Well, from the OP:

On 8/28/2017 at 0:55 AM, travelings said:

...  I was eventually let go after showing them 20k Baht and booking a return ticket in front of the immigration officers. ...

... Before leaving the office they wrote down the flight number on my departure card. ...

Sounds like they forced him to buy the ticket to enter, in this case.  Showing the 20K was evidently not enough by itself.

 

A forced flight-booking would only make sense for someone with an overstay-history.  For a frequent and long-stay visitor who hasn't overstayed, it makes no sense, as they have proven they will leave on-time.

 

@travelings  - do you have any overstays in your Thai history?

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Well, from the OP:

Sounds like they forced him to buy the ticket to enter, in this case.  Showing the 20K was evidently not enough by itself.

 

A forced flight-booking would only make sense for someone with an overstay-history.  For a frequent and long-stay visitor who hasn't overstayed, it makes no sense, as they have proven they will leave on-time.

Clearly, for whatever reason, the IO had a problem with this guy.

[travelings]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Well, from the OP:

Sounds like they forced him to buy the ticket to enter, in this case.  Showing the 20K was evidently not enough by itself.

 

A forced flight-booking would only make sense for someone with an overstay-history.  For a frequent and long-stay visitor who hasn't overstayed, it makes no sense, as they have proven they will leave on-time.

 

@travelings  - do you have any overstays in your Thai history?

I have never overstayed my visa. I had however finished a tourist visa plus 30 day extension and did a visa run in Cambodia.  

 

I'm not sure, but it seemed like maybe there was something going on the day of my arrival because they kept picking people out of the line and refusing them entry into the country. I was lucky enough to be able to convince them to let me stay after agreeing to purchasing a return ticket and showing them 20k baht. Most the other people they pulled out of the line did not have the 20k baht necessary.  I should also add there were a bunch of officers with "Trainee" badges on them. It occurred to maybe doing this as an exercises or something to teach the trainee's.  The officer that was working with me said they were flooded with people and you could tell because there were not enough seats in the office area for all the people they were pulling out. 

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, travelings said:

I have never overstayed my visa. I had however finished a tourist visa plus 30 day extension and did a visa run in Cambodia.  

 

I'm not sure, but it seemed like maybe there was something going on the day of my arrival because they kept picking people out of the line and refusing them entry into the country. I was lucky enough to be able to convince them to let me stay after agreeing to purchasing a return ticket and showing them 20k baht. Most the other people they pulled out of the line did not have the 20k baht necessary.  I should also add there were a bunch of officers with "Trainee" badges on them. It occurred to maybe doing this as an exercises or something to teach the trainee's.  The officer that was working with me said they were flooded with people and you could tell because there were not enough seats in the office area for all the people they were pulling out. 

Thank you for the additional info.  It sounds like a "drag-net" situation using the 20K Baht rule + no ATM access as the trap.