US Strike on Suspected Drug Boat Kills Three

I can't wait for people to be locked up for a long time for this nonsense.

Gargamon - yes, it's institutionalised MURDER.

No investigation, no trial, no verdict - just MURDER !

. . . . "the overall number of people killed in the US campaign has now exceeded 200"

Shameful - a disgrace on the USA.

20 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Gargamon - yes, it's institutionalised MURDER.

No investigation, no trial, no verdict - just MURDER !

. . . . "the overall number of people killed in the US campaign has now exceeded 200"

Shameful - a disgrace on the USA.

Border protection is not murder. It’s common for countries to kill drug smugglers and the Thai border patrol kill them all the time.

14 minutes ago, khunJam said:

Border protection is not murder. It’s common for countries to kill drug smugglers and the Thai border patrol kill them all the time.

Are you n old Philipino President!!

29 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Are you n old Philipino President!!

Don’t get caught smuggling drugs into Thailand through the northern border or you will find out.

Whoops the death toll is now reported as 205 !

But drug trafficking to the USA apparently at the same level as before !

1 hour ago, khunJam said:

Border protection is not murder. It’s common for countries to kill drug smugglers and the Thai border patrol kill them all the time.

How far are these attacks from a US border? These boats are in international waters. I think they're afraid to actually capture one and see what's on board because they know it's probably not narcotics. All just to keep the mentally challenged MAGA base placated.

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

Are you n old Philipino President!!

Can't be. That president is currently locked up at the ICC for killing purported drug dealers without evidence. Sound familiar?

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

Can't be. That president is currently locked up at the ICC for killing purported drug dealers without evidence. Sound familiar?

Exactly why my reply, but Mr Jam is too dopey to get that

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

2 hours ago, gargamon said:

How far are these attacks from a US border? These boats are in international waters. I think they're afraid to actually capture one and see what's on board because they know it's probably not narcotics. All just to keep the mentally challenged MAGA base placated.

Though that might be true, no one, especially those on this forum, knows anything of what goes on military wise in the US.

Yes, they might be shooting at boats who don't have any drugs, but with past history of encounters with smugglers, and that's thousands, do you not think the intel is not better these days? That they do know who's doing what as the US relies heavily on others for information, including those who live in the countries who's smugglers and terrorists are targeted.

What happens when someone actually shows that any of these boats are only fishermen or traders? It would look very bad for the US.

When boats are seen in international waters and they don't stop for the Coast Guard or Navy, they are suspects for something right? Given a few warnings and possibly shooting at US boats, what's the next step?

The same as when a policeman pulls over someone for a traffic violation and they don't listen to keep their hands still and seen. They have no reason to move, but some get shot as the police think they're reaching for a gun.The same here.

It doesn't matter how far they are from US waters. If they're suspects for smuggling drugs that are killing thousands of US and other country's citizens yearly, they should surrender and allow boarding.

Again, I wouldn't like to see any innocents killed for anyone's mistakes, as it's happened in history many times in all countries. This drug problem needed to be curtailed, and it's taken way too long to do anything about it, as it's a money making thing where corruption and some officials are involved, much like human trafficking, which also should be penalized with extreme prejudice.

Are these boats holding drugs? If they aren't, the boaters would stop and allow boarding, as the US Navy or Coast guard isn't wanting to kill innocents and all it takes is a short stop to check them out. I wouldn't think the US is wantonly shooting at all boats crossing the waters but ones they might already have intel about, which we don't.

Take Trump out of this equation and see things as they are, without that prejudice, as he is a weirdo. What other ways are there to stop the drug problem than stopping them before they land in other countries?

48 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, they might be shooting at boats who don't have any drugs, but with past history of encounters with smugglers, and that's thousands, do you not think the intel is not better these days? That they do know who's doing what as the US relies heavily on others for information, including those who live in the countries who's smugglers and terrorists are targeted.

Where's the dur process?

48 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When boats are seen in international waters and they don't stop for the Coast Guard or Navy, they are suspects for something right? Given a few warnings and possibly shooting at US boats, what's the next step?

Legally they have no next step. They are in international waters and cannot attack. Remember drug boats that used to anchor 12 miles off Miami's coast and use speedboats to get it to land. 12 mikes plus is untouchable.

52 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Again, I wouldn't like to see any innocents killed for anyone's mistakes, as it's happened in history many times in all countries. This drug problem needed to be curtailed, and it's taken way too long to do anything about it, as it's a money making thing where corruption and some officials are involved, much like human trafficking, which also should be penalized with extreme prejudice.

The drug war will never be won. Time for a strategy change. After all, most of the drug laws are in place to keep the blacks in check. Educate people so they have opportunities and the usage would drop tremendously. Maybe even legalize it all and treat the few that can't handle it. Seems to me it was successful in Amsterdam.

8 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Where's the dur process?

Legally they have no next step. They are in international waters and cannot attack. Remember drug boats that used to anchor 12 miles off Miami's coast and use speedboats to get it to land. 12 mikes plus is untouchable.

The drug war will never be won. Time for a strategy change. After all, most of the drug laws are in place to keep the blacks in check. Educate people so they have opportunities and the usage would drop tremendously. Maybe even legalize it all and treat the few that can't handle it. Seems to me it was successful in Amsterdam.

Your line, the drug war will never be stopped, is correct,but it shows that rules were to be broken, meaning going after the boats long before they get anywhere near land. Yes, millions like drugs, so it'll never be stopped, but curtailed still saves countless lives, and if you eliminate more and more, less and less will be willing to take a risk that means death if you try smuggling. We aren't talking about weed here of course but Fentanyl, Heroin and Cocaine.

Educating people starts at home, and no one has control over that besides the parents. The breakdown at home is the main reason society breaks down, so how do you stop parents from being neglectful, abusive, and spoilers?

How do you stop people who look at drug dealing, human trafficking and smuggling as being a way to make much more than working a regular job? How do you stop the officials from looking the other way so these deals can go through, along with judges who are too lenient on those smuggling drugs and people? You punish them severely, and if that means shooting at boats that aren't listening to orders to stop, that's one way to make others think this might not be a smart idea for a job.

You legalize all drugs and you'll have millions more that wouldn't normally want to take the risk into getting hooked, which means children also, who's brains aren't developed enough to make rational decisions. Weed again isn't the problem, even though some think it's a gateway drug. it's the ones that addict people who have that personality very fast, and who might never stop. What kind of world would we have if millions more could buy these drugs without laws? Not hard to imagine.

6 hours ago, gargamon said:

I can't wait for people to be locked up for a long time for this nonsense.

The air crew. Couldn't agree more. Illegal orders are no excuse.

1) Int'l waters. US has no jurisdiction.

2) No evidence of drugs

3) No attempt to arrest suspects

Murder.

28 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

The air crew. Couldn't agree more. Illegal orders are no excuse.

1) Int'l waters. US has no jurisdiction.

2) No evidence of drugs

3) No attempt to arrest suspects

Murder.

Wouldn't it be common sense to think "suspected" drug boat might just have drugs on it? No one here knows what's going on besides what we hear the media say, and the US military isn't going to tell all to anyone. Every boat could have been given warnings, as we've seen a few times, and any boat that doesn't stop when a US Navy or Coast Guard ship says stop and doesn't, is taking their lives in their hands, especially if they start shooting like some pirate boats do.

Like I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't like to see any innocents killed anywhere worldwide, but this drug problem is killing thousands and no one has a better solution than going after suspected boats and checking them out. It is in the best interests of everyone and not just Americans if these harsh drug dealers were stopped, or at least curtailed, as it saves lives.......................https://www.prestoneasley.com/blog/a-guide-to-maritime-law-enforcement-in-the-us/

As far as jurisdiction, this explains it..........How US Jurisdiction Works on the High Seas

• Flag State Jurisdiction: Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), vessels are governed by the laws of the country whose flag they fly. If a ship is flying a US flag, the US generally has jurisdiction over crimes and incidents that occur on board. [1, 2, 3]

• US Citizens: The US maintains "Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction". This allows the US federal government to prosecute US nationals for crimes (like murder, kidnapping, or assault) committed anywhere outside the jurisdiction of any nation, or against US nationals on US-flagged vessels. [1]

• Stateless Vessels: Any vessel operating in international waters without registration to any country is considered "stateless." Under international law, stateless vessels are subject to boarding, inspection, and enforcement action by the naval or law enforcement vessels of any nation, including the US. [1, 2]

• Maritime Security: Through treaties and the Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act, the US Coast Guard frequently boards foreign-flagged vessels in international waters if there is a suspected violation of US law, provided the flag state grants permission. ................................https://www.noaa.gov/jurisdiction-over-vessels.

Okay, Fred. I would submit that NO fishing vessel fly any flag, at least those that return to port. Those giant trawler-freezers may fly a flag--I don't know. Do we know these flagless vessels are not registered anywhere. We don't know because warplanes bombed and sunk them in addition to murdering civilians, conveniently destroying the evidence, on the assumption there ever was any.

Your last category means that in the case vessels are under foreign registration, the US must seek permission from the nation of registration to BOARD the vessel in int'l waters, not blow it out of the sea. I doubt any nation would permit any of its nationals being callously murdered.

I don't agree with you that drugs are a scourge. Do they ruin vulnerable people's lives. NOPE. Those people ruin their own lives. If it wasn't drugs, it would be booze--similar cost profile. Why are we fighting an unwinnable war--I suppose I should amend that to the plural!

Let's call drug use survival of the fittest. There's really no cure and none of the street addicts can afford rehab. If we try to stop the flow of drugs, shouldn't we also pay for rehab? Or maybe camps to pray the habit away?

Let's just say that some of those ~100 boats were, in fact, carrying drugs, why does the US not have ships to intercept them, seize the drugs and arrest the runners? Though these are, of course, small-timers, no Mr Biggs out for a pleasure cruise in the Caribbean, it would maybe garner some votes for tough-on-crime pols.

You tell me, boo-hoo, those runners might have, u-oh, guns. Both USN and USCG are fully trained soldiers with heavy weapons at their disposal. Believe me, any sensible runner would stop dead and put his hands up.

I 'suspect' you're on some 10 Most Wanted list somewhere. Should I just shoot you? Of course not, "suspicion" is not prima facie evidence. Even if, let's say, the runners are killed in a shoot-out, where is the drug evidence? If it ain't there, there's no case.

I'm not against interdiction (if that's your bag, it's not mine), I'm against murder with no evidence. I applaud the rule of law. Going out in a boat should not be taking one's life in one's hands.

Anything less is lawless MURDER. Drugs are not more important than the sanctity of human life.

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Okay, Fred. I would submit that NO fishing vessel fly any flag, at least those that return to port. Those giant trawler-freezers may fly a flag--I don't know. Do we know these flagless vessels are not registered anywhere. We don't know because warplanes bombed and sunk them in addition to murdering civilians, conveniently destroying the evidence, on the assumption there ever was any.

Your last category means that in the case vessels are under foreign registration, the US must seek permission from the nation of registration to BOARD the vessel in int'l waters, not blow it out of the sea. I doubt any nation would permit any of its nationals being callously murdered.

I don't agree with you that drugs are a scourge. Do they ruin vulnerable people's lives. NOPE. Those people ruin their own lives. If it wasn't drugs, it would be booze--similar cost profile. Why are we fighting an unwinnable war--I suppose I should amend that to the plural!

Let's call drug use survival of the fittest. There's really no cure and none of the street addicts can afford rehab. If we try to stop the flow of drugs, shouldn't we also pay for rehab? Or maybe camps to pray the habit away?

Let's just say that some of those ~100 boats were, in fact, carrying drugs, why does the US not have ships to intercept them, seize the drugs and arrest the runners? Though these are, of course, small-timers, no Mr Biggs out for a pleasure cruise in the Caribbean, it would maybe garner some votes for tough-on-crime pols.

You tell me, boo-hoo, those runners might have, u-oh, guns. Both USN and USCG are fully trained soldiers with heavy weapons at their disposal. Believe me, any sensible runner would stop dead and put his hands up.

I 'suspect' you're on some 10 Most Wanted list somewhere. Should I just shoot you? Of course not, "suspicion" is not prima facie evidence. Even if, let's say, the runners are killed in a shoot-out, where is the drug evidence? If it ain't there, there's no case.

I'm not against interdiction (if that's your bag, it's not mine), I'm against murder with no evidence. I applaud the rule of law. Going out in a boat should not be taking one's life in one's hands.

Anything less is lawless MURDER. Drugs are not more important than the sanctity of human life.

They give warnings. if they're not followed, it shows they're hiding something, as they know full well why the US boats are questioning them. Boats need to be registered, and with that registration comes a ship's log.

Small boats are used as they are fast and they care nothing about maritime laws, obviously as they are breaking the laws transferring illegal contraband that kills people.

Do you actually think the US Navy or Coast Guard is going to randomly shoot boats without warning without some previous intel or them ignoring warnings?

Drugs ruin millions of lives, be it illegal or over prescribed, although that's another story. Again we're not talking about weed here.

People have a want to fit in, as youngsters, and this is how most are hooked, before they're brains are developed enough to understand the risks, along with the fact no one really knows if they're the addictive type until it happens. But those friends aren't going to make or help you quit, unless they really care and understand the fact you weren't the right one to try an addictive substance.

No cure for drug use? of course there is. You quit, or are put into a rehab until you can shake the habit. First it takes rock bottom or being busted, both of which also ruin lives, and not only yours but those around you, as many who get hooked are parents.

Guessing you don't understand how addiction works. it works not only with drugs but alcohol, cigarettes and food, and all will kill. Millions of people do not have the will power to stop when they start something that can be very mild at first. A drink here, a jelly roll here, a couple of cigarettes or a line of coke. Many to just be like your friends.

Again, you nor most anyone here do not know why things happen that we hear about. We aren't there when it goes down and only hear what the media says. We aren't seeing the chase but only hearing the end result. Was there intel saying a certain boat was loaded with drugs and possibly armed? Were these boats warned and either ignored the warning or opened fire, so the US shot back, which usually means the boat is incinerated. Guessing doesn't work, and until there is evidence an innocent boat was sunk, it's only assumptions. Drugs are not more important than the sanctity of life but drug dealers who are killing thousands of people aren't necessary in the least.

Funny, an immediate thumbs down a few seconds after I post. Without even reading it. That's a tell. Guess some are okay with others dying from overdosing.When it's a friend, either by an illegal drug or a doctor prescribed one, maybe it'll hit home.