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[lodesafun]

Hiyas all,

I have been a member and reader of TV for a bit over a year now, and have great respect for many of the contributors here. Yank by birth and on passport (Rebel actually, we fought the yanks and lost too, civil war.) I’ve lived in Australia for the better part of last 15 years and have been coming to Thailand often in the 15 years. I’m 46. I’m on a 90 day non immi O visa, unable to extend. Expires July 23, which I intend to do 1 visa run Then go back to Oz , getting another ”O” for 90 days when I return.

I love Thailand and everything about it good and bad. I lived in Thailand a majority of the last 2 years with my Thai girlfriend (29, she’s from Trang she’s solid, staunch, an excellent example of a ‘good thai person” we love each other muc muc). We survive on about 20-30 grand ? a year. Never been the extravagant type, don’t use credit; I owe no money to anyone. No Insurance of any kind. Rent an apt for about 9000 baht a month (utilities included). I live happily within my means. I do speak a smidgeon of Thai.

That’s me.

Now I have a problem that I am unable to solve and am asking for the input of the Falang brain trust here on Thai Visa.

My problem…..

My girl just had our baby. ( thank-you). On the 18th June at sukhumvit Hospital. My family is known for Big babies and with her small stature the baby has come 6 weeks early. (Premmy) I thought she had things sorted but it turns out the delivery package she put a deposit on was for Natural birth. With the cesarean birth, we lost the package deal. There of course were complications with a baby that is born that early, in fact she was born not breathing and had to be resuscitated. That thank god was done successfully. But the hospital was not equipped to deal with the complications and told me they had to send the baby to simitivj (sp)hospital on suk soi 49. to natal ICU, the mother stayed at ICU in suk hospital. I went with my daughter in the ambo to simitivj hospital. Her lungs were not adequate and she was on oxygen. On arrival I meet the Doc who told me what was happening and that it would be good if mother and baby were together. I agreed as it’s the natural thing to do. So next morning I went and did the things that had to be done to move her. She got to the hospital in ambo about 2 PM. (the bill for one day was 72,000. I had 50,000 on me and left it as a depo telling them I would be back by 5:30 to pay the rest 22,000 baht. At Suk. It was a crusher as we had planned about 40,000.) My first time being a father not much sleep and my girl knocked out I had to make the choices. When arriving by ambo I left my GF in emergency and went home to get the balance and went to Suk to pay the rest. When I got to Simitvij My GF was in ICU there ( if I had left her at SUK she would have been moved to regular room that day (when I later told SUK that she was in ICU they said there was no reason for her to be there) I asked the doc at SIMITIVJ Why she was in ICU and he said to be safe as she had a fever. I asked if they put everyone with a fever in ICU he said “Sometimes” At about 6 pm I was told what the bill May be. (1 million baht plus!!!) I immediately went to the cashier asked for supervisor and explained to her that I would never be able to pay this bill and could I please be moved to another hospital that was more affordable. I was told that they weren’t heartless and understand and they would call me soon and make an appointment with the financial dept. my phone rang an hour latter. An appointment was made to meet them in her ICU room at 8AM. No one came. One word sprang to my mind =HEARTLESS!! A girl with a clip board and paper about 10AM that I HAD to sign. No choice as my baby was at stake I did it. But I did ask to be shown the current bill. That came and the original total was close to 250,000 baht. When I asked for a detailed bill it then became 150,000 baht. I said I can pay this but I can pay no more please move us. They said they would come back at 1PM. When they did the answer was “”there is NO hospital in or outside of Bangkok that was available”” And they walked away, thinking, I’m sure that I would settle for that as they gave me no alternative,.

I could’nt belive it. This is one of the TOP hospitals in Bangkok??? 2PM came up and we had to vacate my GF room (I would of let her stay but she insisted to be out as she knows our finances and would rest at home saying that the baby is more important. They gave her NOTHING, no advice for new mothers, NO medicine. Not even a consoling word. Nothing but a pair of slippers. We got to the elevator before anyone even got us a wheelchair. Less than 24 hrs after she gave birth. We were flanked by a nurse and an orderly to the cashier. I parked my GF at the cashier and said; now I have to get my baby. Went to the ICU

And asked the nurse if my baby would die if I took her. She called the doctor as I was getting the blankets ready. Many people came admin, head nurse, Doc. All telling me I could not move her. (In honesty I was frantic at the time, something Thai people are uncomfortable with) I explained to all there that this hospital was out of my league and I’m not rich falang.

I was told that if I get my girlfriends ID card they could help me move to a goverment hospital. It was 3PM and I said please sign this paper stating that I have lodged the fact that I am unable to pay anymore bills further than the 150,000 baht due at the moment. They said they could not but to get the ID card and they would move me. I asked where as they had told me that it was impossible to be moved 15 minutes ago. The lady said that it was a nurse who inquired before and that she herself had better “”connections””. My girlfriends ID wasn’t with us and I had to go home to get it and the extra baht needed to pay the bill.. Public transport, rain, moto-bike and back was about an hour. I arrived to see about 8 Hospital Admin beside my girlfriend, she looked close to trauma sitting by cashier, her sister and father (in full monk robe and whom I’d never meet before had flown up from trang were there also. I gave the ID card to her she gave to them. A person who identified themselves as 2nd in charge of the hospital, AS I was paying the 150,000 and it was being counted, said to me “” we have found a hospital for your baby. Gave me the address and said to meet me at the hospital they found at 8AM the next morning. Getting the receipt we (the 4 of us) went back home. 3 hrs later I received a call from a nurse saying that their were complications and we had lost the bed at the hospital, and the Admin would call me soon, I know a bit about soon in Thailand and said How soon/within the hour? Yes. You can guess NO call came and from exhaustion I fell asleep waiting for it. I had the sense earlier to set my alarm and woke up at 7AM

Morning day 3…..

. At 8 am a call came from Hospital saying No bed. My GF and I went back to SUK hospital as she was having a rough time with her breast milk and the staff in Maternity there gave her complete instructions and some medication which I gratefully paid 1100 baht for. . I had the house book needed for birth certificate and other info needed and had told the SUK hospital that I would bring it to them on this day , so I did this also. We went back to simitivj after that and she was able for the first time to touch and kiss our baby. ( I cried like a baby myself at this scene, filled with love and frustration, yeh a bit of anger, but kept that inside, exhaustion, massive worry. I hope you never get in this situation.) While seeing baby and was told to wait and someone would be with me. After awhile and feeling fully suspicious (rightfully or not) as everything anyone had told me to this point had not come about Then came back to Simitivj, was avoided and eventually saw the 2nd in charge in the hall. I asked her what was being done, was told not to worry that things are negotiable I told her that to negotiate a 50,000 + baht a day bill would not be acceptable as I could not pay the end result, please Move us. “”Trust us”” was the reply. I’m 46 almost every time someone has said “”trust me”” I got the stick. So that wasn’t helping my suspicions at all. But was totally hand tied. So frustrating when you cannot do what is best for your family. I’m an honest person, believe fully in Karma. Here I was trying to let them know immediately on the 1st day, Once I found out their charges That I was incapable of affording their service. But was getting nowhere. Every time they had a solution, it evaporated. And extended the stay. Yesterday the only response to my inquries was the “trust us, we can negotiate”” answer.

Now I’m not saying the staff there is not good, cause it is. The admin seem unapproachable and the majority of admin uncaring but for money. I’m getting no numbers as to cost.

I can’t emphasize to them any better than I have that I cannot afford them. Here on day 4 with them I’m about to go see my baby again. But in a moment of inspiration, and having no one whom I can be somewhat confident in the advice, I am turning to TV members to give me some advice. Should I go to the USA embassy? Can they even help? Will I be sent away from Thailand and my family to come back someday seeing my baby selling flowers. This situation is gonna burst my heart. I’m in a state that I have to be so composed, and in my mind say to myself “relax it all happens for a reason” just to breath. My GF says that they will keep the baby, which I know is not true, but I find in her state of mind rather hard to convince her that they won’t. She’s sore, uninformed, massive cries, for you fathers out there, think post pregnant blues times 100. For you mothers I pray you never have to go thru this.

Is there anything that I can do?? Sleep is not an option, I sleep when I blink.

I’m on my way to see my baby shortly with her mum and some milk we collected. When I get back I’ll have a look for answers and update today.

I don’t input much here cause I often don’t have the correct answers to questions, but I do learn a lot here.

Is it true that no other hospital in Bangkok has a bed open? If so does that mean babies are dying in Bangkok cause no room in natal ICU’s? A bit dramatic I know but the Simitivj hospital Admin tells me this is so.

We’’ve tried calling hospitals but they all say that they cannot do anything till they get a request from the hospital. And seems no one wants to step on simitivj hospitals toes.

Should I just let it all play out and go to court/ jail though it would mean I might not ever be allowed in Thailand again? Loose my family to save my family? I’d do it. Seems at the moment I am.

I’m at such a blank wall that any advice given I thank you for.

My name on TV is lodesafun , but it does not fit at all at the moment.

I can give my # to anyone if it helps. I can meet with anyone if it helps. I will do anything if it helps.

Thanks for your time reading this I will respond to any productive questions/ answers tonight. or sooner.

Guesthouse, lopburi, maestro, george, and other advanced members I’ve read many of your informed answers to many questions your imput would be great as I respect your advice.

sorry if not posted in correct forum.

Not so lodesafun…………..

.

****Samitivej is the correct spelling of hospital holding my baby.

[larvidchr]

Im sorry I cant help with any advise, but I am sure that many here on TV can, I just want to wish your newborn your Girlfriend and you the best of luck, with all my heart.

Kindest of regards

[lodesafun]

Im sorry I cant help with any advise, but I am sure that many here on TV can, I just want to wish your newborn your Girlfriend and you the best of luck, with all my heart.

Kindest of regards

Thank-you first bit of compassion and it helps... soon to walk out door but have an eye on comp.

[dominique355]

I am shocked. I am shocked not only about what you wrote, but also because I think I am unable to help.

My wife and I had 2 babies, and the similarity goes on because I am an average farang (182 cm) and she is a small Thai lady. She needed a Cesarean twice and there were no complications. This was in Switzerland and Switzerland is an expensive country, especially in Health care. Our insurance paid twice SFR 25'000 , which is less than 1 Million THB. So I wonder how come this hospital is so horribly expensive.

Might it be that they take advantage of the situation?

[mellow1]

Get the US. Embassy involved. If your a US. citizen,the child will be too.

Tell them what your doing,and don't give them any more money.

Call the police,and file extortion charges against the hospital.May not work, but it will give you a police report.

Call home and have the story put in the local paper by family members(local man being ripped off in Thailand,using newborn as leverage ect..) might get momentum and get into major papers.

The hospital has set prices for rooms as well as procedures.

Call the lawyers listed in the embassy info book,get a price for their fee ,ask what they can do.Don't tell them where your at, until you agree with the terms.

Get her family in there taking charge,their Thai.

Don't sign anything.

Good Luck,let us know what happens.

[tijnebijn]

Sounds very complicated .I think the charge is very high , only could be if also for your wife was life threatening . My wife has been in Secarean twice . The last one did not make it because of the food strain (how I say in English ) got around his neck and a few days before the operation should take place , the boy , was suffocated , so I do understand your happiness for your child to survive . And you are lucky.

Most people do not think about the possibility ,that not always everything goes the right way .

So only I can do is congratulate you to be daddy ,that's the main thing .

About any legal advises I am not the one who knows anymore than you do ,I hope you can find a way .

[mouse]

CALL SUNBELT ASIA NOW! yes I am shouting!! You are being held up. My wife had 3 Ceasarians with all 3 of our children. First class private Hospital and we never paid over 15,000 baht per child.

[thai_narak]

CALL SUNBELT ASIA NOW! yes I am shouting!! You are being held up. My wife had 3 Ceasarians with all 3 of our children. First class private Hospital and we never paid over 15,000 baht per child.

I think this is too low. ceasarian packages in most private hospitals are not below 50,000 baht. may i know which "first class" private hospital are you talking about?

For the OP, it's true that the price was too high and you are being cheated taking into account that 250,000 baht turned out to be 150,000 baht in the detailed bill.

- Let your embassy know about your situation as they may be able to assist you.

- yes, call sunbelt asia. they can give you good advise.

congrats by the way...

Edited June 23, 2007 by thai_narak

[Minburi]

I am saddened to hear all that is happening to you. Its not easy to start with but with the hospital hijacking you in your emotional state and the baby being born early life it sounds like a nightmare. This is never a easy time for anyone and you are doing great. This will work out. Just get your baby healthy and hold he/she? when they let you and when your with the baby just talk to yourself to the wall but most of all let the baby hear you.

[Flow]

CALL SUNBELT ASIA NOW! yes I am shouting!! You are being held up. My wife had 3 Ceasarians with all 3 of our children. First class private Hospital and we never paid over 15,000 baht per child.

OP wrote: """We’’ve tried calling hospitals but they all say that they cannot do anything till they get a request from the hospital. """ sad but true. The problem is the baby, has not fully recovered yet. OP, u have all my sympathies, but I am afraid it's too late now. What you should have done is told Sukhumvit hospital to take you to a government hospital like Chulalongkorn, the police General hospital or Ramathibodi hospital. But... this is Thailand, Sukhumvit hospital probably received nice commission for referring you to Samitivej hospital. BNH, BKK Hospital, Bumrungrad and Samitivej are for rich Thais and rich foreigners. Normal people cannot afford their fees. I know, I am insuranced for 2500 Out Patient and often go there. Their fees are shockingly high even by western standards. The medical treatment you get from government hospitals is just as good. Been there done that. it's just the waiting lines that can sometimes be a alittle long. But in your case, it was an emergency and your baby could have been transferred to a government hospital. The problem is, Sukhumvit Hospital chose Samitivej.

Samitivej hospital is a business pure and simple. The more money they can make the better it is for their bottom line. They are run by a management company that also controls, Bangkok Hospital and BKK Nursing Home. I remember las year, I went to Samitivej for a an existing health condition. I needed medication coz I had run out. I did not need tests because I had been tested the previous month at a different hospital. however, Samitivej, decided that I needed those same expensive tests again. Cost 12,000 Baht. I got 2,500 for out patient not 12,000. So, I walked out sayign "mai pen rai - mai aow leaw".

My advice: go to a government hospital with a member of your wife's family. And have him ask if they'd agree to transfer your baby from Samitivej in their ambulance. You lose nothing by trying again. It's better than a phone call. As for the US Embassy, I don't think they'll be able to help you. Anyway, bud, good luck. I hope things work out for you.

[Mobi]

Samitivej used to be all right. I used it off and on for a couple of years, including a stay as an impatient, and the charges were all quite reasonable, and I was happy with the treatment and care.

However, this must be the 3rd or 4th account I have heard in the past year - including one from a friend who was also an in-patient, and had to discharge himself due to high pricing and unethical behaviour - that things have started to to go very wrong with this place, and charges are going through the roof along with dubious practices.

I stand to be corrected, but I believe that there is a common ownership with Bangkok Pattaya Hospital about which might help to explain a lot.

I really think you need a good lawyer, and you should also contact your embassy. You must get your family out of that place ASAP, and into a government hospital. I'm sure the lawyer and/or embassy could help you achieve this.

I wish I could offer more advice but there may well be others on in this forum with more specialised knowledge of practical ways to assist you.

Good luck, and I hope your wife and baby get well soon.

[WaiWai]

Document & record everything you can. Your post here is a good start. Perhaps record conversations on mobile phone ?

Sorry, little other concrete advice to offer. The suggestion of going in person to other hospitals with Thai family members is a good one, I think.

Do you/ the family know anyone "well-connected" ? Contact anyone you know who might have medical/"important person" connections.

Try to enjoy your baby amidst all this . You seem to be quite coping well with an extremely difficult situation.

[samran]

A couple of moderation points.

Please don't turn this into a hospital bash....or we'll close this thread immediately.

Moving on....

From personal experience, a bill for a totally natural birth at Samtivej with no complications, plus two nights accomadation in a non fancy but private room set us back close to 90K. But, this was before they started the packages, which as far as I know has only been very recently. Any complications, and prices are going to get steep quickly.

Chulalongkorn Uni has an excellent hospital and for this kind of stuff, they have an excellent repulation. You may want to try there. Importanly, it is a government hospital.

As for costs, I don't know what to say. If at any point you decide to move back to Australia in the next 28 weeks with bubs (I am assuming you are an Australian permanent resident), you'll be able to claim the baby bonus. I think it is $4K or $5K that you can get, but it might help defay some of the cost. I may or may not be worth the effort though.

[Amir]

My wife went for the 1st baby with Cesarian to Bangkok Hospital 40,000 THB 3 Days. Unfortunatly it is in Hat Yai. But i don't know why it should be MUCH more expensive in BKK.

Amir

[lannarebirth]

I think what many are missing is that the escalated costs are associated with the neo natal ICU. Few hospitals have them and that is why the costs are running out of control. Back in the states, premie births requiring neo natal ICU care can run to hundreds of thousand of dollars. A friend of mine qualified as a neo natal registered nurse earns 1,000 dollars a day in that capacity. It's really, really expensive. That doesn't mean these people aren't extorting you.

I agree both your embassy and a lawyer should be brought on board. Also, as much documentation as is possible. I think the Chula Hospital suggestion is a good one too. Firstly though, please get some rest. You're no good to youself or your family if you can't function due to lack of sleep.

[lodesafun]

Thanks for the replies.

I wrote all that this morning in a terrible state not the best of clarity; I’m better now and hope to make things a bit more clear as some responses could have only been confused by it.

Mellow 1,

I really don’t want to go that far, but It may eventuate itself I get taken to court.

I realize it may be impossible that’s why I need help.I’m looking for an immediate solution.

Thank-you.

I’ve only had two laughs today, how much it would cost me if me heart burst and I fell out at the hospital and your name matched with your response. (Can you tell it hasn’t been an amusing day?)

Tijnebijin,

Thank-you for two things

Making me feel I’m lucky, I’m sorry for your loss.

And for making me realize that all the times I read of someone’s misfortune on TV and never sent any sympathetic words to them, thinking they don’t know me, I was wrong. Your response has been most poignant . Thank-you again

Mouse,

Were any of your children premature? Taking an estimated 2 weeks or more?

And if you could give me the name of that hospital I will call them.

Thai Narak,

I have confused you. The package we had was for Sukhumvit. Where the baby was delivered at. I had the pamphlet but can’t find it now, but I’m saying For a natural delivery =29000 baht. Cesarean = 39000. (if you ever find yourself in this situation take the Cesarean, cause if you buy the natural and it has to be a cesarean you lose the natural packe deal and can no longer opt for the cesarean deal. The first bill I paid 72,000 baht was for the delivery and the nights stay of GF and the process of stabilizing the child for transport. I saw a portion of the stabilizing and all I can say is my little girl is ment to be something. Resuscitated at birth and the pain that fresher than fresh life had to endure with needles and tubes and I suppose with out any pain killers on the count of her breathing was the problem. What turned out to be a first class hospital was Samitivej and I won’t mention it again (mod) as I want it to be clear that I am not, in anyway, negative about the quality of care there. The Nurses and the Doctor that I have met in the natal ICU are as gracious as only Thai professionals can be. I can confirm my child is well monitored as I am there a lot at various times. She’s improving every day. It’s the way I’m being handled

The problem is I can’t get out of there I can’t afford being there. So in the end I’ll be going to court then jail or expelled. And then what will happen to my family??? I’ve told them this as soon as I found out where I was at.

Miniburi,

SHE is a beauty, at the moment her eyes are blue,gotta glimpse of them today, hope they stay that way, she’s gonna be tall, has my mums long fingers. She’s Light skinned ( get alotta OOhs and ahhs on that one) she will have the black hair of her mum and a debate is on about her nose but I reckon it will be the Thai shape.( my little nose picker lol) and I remember some forum about nipple color, pink.

And we talk to her all the time. It is a hard time though that to be sure. Thanks.

I'll put this on TV and continue.

[meemiathai]

I feel so sorry for you.

But here is my silly suggestion, can you just pretend you can afford everything and let them take care of the baby and wait until all of you recover and run away. They deserve it. And you do not deserve this. Is that possible?

Best wishes.

[lodesafun]

Flow,

I don’t have the option of "mai pen rai - mai aow leaw".

Mobi,

I really think you need a good lawyer, and you should also contact your embassy. You must get your family out of that place ASAP, and into a government hospital. I'm sure the lawyer and/or embassy could help you achieve this.

Oh I hope it doesn’t come to this, I’m feel worn out already. Thanks

Wai wai,

Why ?

I have the bills for what I’ve paid for already. The Admin know my position financially. They know my desire to move. They tell me they will move me when a position opens. I’m in it deep mate. Handling it well?? Mate, inside I’m a traffic accident . but I’ve got a wife ..err GF and a helpless newborn that doesn’t need any more negativeness around her. I know the right things to do in life just frustrating when it’s not Reciprocated.

Samran,

I’m glad you had no complications

Chulalongkorn Uni has an excellent hospital and for this kind of stuff.

I am being told that ALL hospital positions for Natal ICU in Bkk and around are Full for the last 5 days. That is why I cannot get moved.

Does anyone here work in a hospital that has an open bed in natal ICU or knows of an open position in one?? It seems as confirmed by that I need the hospital to contact them and allow for them to come and pick up, or, as was told to me when I was paying the 150,000, that the only payment that would be left for me to pay was the ambulance charge to take me to the hospital, which never happened because the position disappeared.

Amir,

It is the same price at Sukhumvit here in bkk. If you buy the package and no there are further complications.

Lannarebirth,

Your right. seems most are missing the ICU part. I do realize this is expensive. And a hospital can charge what ever it wants to as any business will. And it’s the consumer that has a choice to buy it or not. I have been given no choice. And that this hospital in it’s foremost position cannot find another vacancy. As I am to believe that

I am lucky that I received the only natal ICU bed available in the last 5 days in and outside a city the size of bkk.. both a blessing and a curse if all this is true as I’m sure there have been other babies that have been born prematurely in that time that could not be taken care of. But thinking of the luck my little girl has had I guess I can believe it. I can only hope that the hospital really can be trusted and all the things that have thwarted the move were meant to be. An outcome that I Promise to relay here to you all. Outside of the one Thai that said to me years ago ‘the palace is closed” I have never been told a DIRECT straight in the EYE, lie by a Thai person. So I guess I’m gonna have to go with history and either, get the Help from them or the Noose.

I think I’ve made my decision, Thanks for your imput. it has been a help to be able to speak of it of that i'm sure. It's far from being easy or over. i am lucky in the fact that my little girl (Samantha BTW) will be fine as she is improving swiftly. with her mums Thai blood she will also never run from a fight, with my blood she'll fight long, hard true.

Meemaithai,

Nope, not my way to go down. I can promise you When it’s my time to go down (and this ain’t it) I’ll go down fighting and smiling. Knowing I gave life everything I had.

But thanks for the mental picture. It’s funny.

[November Rain]

I'm truly sorry, I don't know of any way to help. I think the advice about getting a lawyer involved is sound - as long as that doesn't end up costing you loads more.

I went through something similar when my BF was dying in ICU of a private hospital in BKK. The costs weren't as astronomical as you are describing, but we were running out of money & every day I was spealing with everyone I could think of, trying to get him moved somewhere good but less expensive (ie a decent govt hospital). Unfortunately time ran out for him & he died, anyway.

Putting my experiences with what you've written, I can only see a couple of other things to suggest:

You need to find a govt hospital with similar facilities which also has a place for your baby (That second might be very difficult). Does your GF, her family, or even you know anyone influential (local govt, police, doctor)? If you do, get them involved to try & pull some strings. In Thailand, it's often who you know. If you do know someone, now might be the time to use them.

Secondly, go & speak to your baby's doctor & to the head of the finance dept. Every private hospital in Thailand that I've been to has the discretion to give discounts. Make it clear you need those discounts. Doctors can waive their fees or charge less; alternative, cheaper drugs can be used, etc. Make it clear that that is what you need at this time. Make sure they are also phoning all suitable cheaper hospitals every day. If you don't pressure them, nothing will get done.

I'm not sure if this next will help or make it worse (maybe an older hand than me can give their view), but as the hospital is a business, maybe the polite threat of negative publicity might be the way to go. Get the English language media involved? Or conversely, the same could be used as a good reason for them to help you out - a report on their humanity (when they help) rather than on their greed (when they don't)?

Good luck. I hope things work out for you & your new family.

[TAWP]

Just adding a number: My wife had to be cut, spent some 4 days in the hospital with our son, single room with cabel tv, balcony and a sofa with pillows incase i wanted to rest there too (went home to take care of the dogs in the night however) - 37K. Might not be first class - Bangkok General Hospital - but I found it to have higher standard than a normal hospital from back home...

[lodesafun]

""If you don't pressure them, nothing will get done....""

As is often the case

NR, thank you for you construtive help. Thru my current dealings I can tell that you have had this experiance. I'm sorry for your loss, Terrible way to learn how things work.

I put your quote on the 1st line to help me remember this is not a time to be placid. Yesterday (Sat) I put no pressure on the situation, I saw the doctor ( who I feel is a good man) when he came to check on the ward. I did make sure I thanked him also and let him Know that my resentment with this situation in no way included him or the effort he has put in. But I saw noone else, Im thinking cause (Saturday)'. but.... You'd think they would at least send someone to update me of the situation

unless they are'nt. ( the no direct lie in the eye thing) thats what I mean about the Admin and the lack of feeling/ compassion as the entire Admin group knows of my situation. the lack of this from a hospital, large or small, is a main worry. I am hoping That I am wrong and am just misreading the situation. If that be the case I will apologize fully (here and there) for my accusation. If not well I might just start giving out t-shirts to beggers on the street that imply they are not a hospital in the sense that most farang think a hospital should be, but a warehouse that treats people as stock Items. I'll think of the correct wording if it comes to that.

I will say this, on TV I've gotton more genuine compassion than I have anywhere else. It of course doses not solve the problem But it does help me realize that it is not an entirely jaded world. and at the moment that is a help. I thank all here that have contributed.

my word for monday will be pressure. It's gonna be a long day.

Thanks again NR and good luck to you.

[lodesafun]

TAWP,

Thanks as your info may help others, If I had the choice, that would be good. bangkok hospital sounds a reasonable price for 4 days 2 people inclusive of the birth. If the oppertunity arrises I will remember your Reply.

[farangene]

Lodesafun,

I picked up a room cost sheet from Bangkok International Hosp. yesterday. They are on Petchburi Rd in Bangkok.

It showed the rates for all room and the Nursery rates (incl room cost, nursing services, hosp. svcs and meals) are show below:

Nusery 2550 per day

NICU 3100 per day

Intermediate NICU 3600 per day

Attention Room 8800 per day

I dont know the differences among the categories.

You might call them at 02 310-3000 or 02-310-3281 or 755-1281 and see if they have roomavailble . I think BKK Hosp offers top notch services doctors and facilities.

Good luck and I'll say a prayer for your family.

[toasted]

Lodesafun,

I am truly sorry to hear of your situation. But try to stay positive - remember, you now have a beautiful baby girl, and she is recieving the best treatment that can be found. This is something that all too few children born into this world have. I understand your problem and I wish I had some wonderful piece of concrete advice to give you. The only thing I can say is that The Chulalongkorn hospital referred to by others offers excellent treatment at incredibly low prices considering; my eldest was born there. Don't lose too much sleep about the hospital suing you for payment of their high fees. A hospital that relies so much on foreigners for patients can't afford such bad publicity. I'm sure that you will be able to work something out with them, and even if you have to pay it off in installments, remember what you have got out of it, ie your daughter. Good luck in the meantime and stay positive.

[bkkmei]

I'm so sorry to read about your situation.

Best of luck in negotiating with finance dept.

Most of all, CONGRATULATIONS to you & your wife on your beautiful new daughter.

[WaiWai]

Lodesafun, documenting what happened may prove useful if it does turn out the hospital was less than honest with you.

Come to think of it, asking the hospital adminsitration to make a written statement re non-availability of beds elsewhere, or having them call other hospitals in your presence might help you feel more sure (or not) they are telling the truth. Though there's also the sticky issue of "face" - don't want to antagonise them.

[pattayadave]

firstly i congratulate you on the birth of your child

but i must ask at what cost do you price human life, your daughter is in the best place at the moment and you say she is getting the best care,would you risk transfering her to a cheaper hospital where maybe she might not get the attention she is curently receiving, see admin ask if you can pay in installments.

get some rest your no good to your g/f and daughter walking around like a zombie believe me your going to need all rest you can get you've got a few busy years ahead

[GuestHouse]

First and foremost congratulations on the birth of your daughter, my best wishes to her in her life to come and to mum for a speedy recovery from the birth.

With respect to the problem at the hospital, you have two or three choices.

You can roll over and pay. (might turn out to be the cheapest option).

You can challenge the hospital - lengthy legal battle with no guarantee of success.

Or you can play crafty.

Which ever route you choose to go the FIRST THING TO DO IS.... Get a full set of your wife's medical records from both hospitals - Starting with the Simitavej.

DO NOT write to them and ask for the records, DO NOT send you wife in alone to collect them.

DO NOT give advanced notice that you want the records.

DO NOT escalate any conflict with the hospital until you have the medical records.

Go with your wife and ask for a normal doctor appointment, all her records will be brought to the consulting room, tell the doctor face to face you need a full copy of the records and demand them there and now - DO NOT let them out of your sight until you have a full set of the records. (That means following them to the copy machine).

When I left Thailand I simply asked for all my medical records and they were handed to me. I believe, but I am not certain that they are your wife's property. You could tell the doctor you are moving to NZ... worth a try.

The medical records will have all the information that is needed to challenge your wife's treatment.

For example: When your wife was given a caesarian, had she gone into labour, had her waters broken?

The health of your baby when she was taken into the ICU will also be recoreded and evidence of a clinical need for the ICU.

With the Records you can challenge the medical treatment given

How to play Crafty

I've just had a look at the website, it includes a number of 'Acreditations' WHO, Baby Friendly etc. There is a reference to ISO9001 in their Thai language website.

These are 'soft targets' that do not need a legal team to deal with.

Get a copy of as many of the hospital policies as you can (on the website), stuff that says they 'will do this, will not do that'. And then make a list of how they failed their corporate promises.

Visit the websites of the acreditation bodies and list their accreditation criteria.

Then write to the hospital listing their failures and state that you are deeply concerned and that you would like an answer to your questions.

At best you'll receive some BS answer, most likely nothing.

Leave it a few weeks and then write to the acreditation bodies with your complaints, a brief covering letter stating that you trusted the hospital because of their acredition but have been badly let down, ask them to review the acreditation.

If you believe that your wife and daughter received un necessary or in apropriate treatment, state that in you letter - State "I BELIEVE" ,...... NO NOT STATE......a fact that you are not qualified to give.... remember we can all believe what we like and state our beliefs as such.

ISO9001 is dead easy.

Find out who acredited the hospital and write to them listing failures to communicate, record conversations when requested, failures and mistakes in following hospital stated procedures.

Copy this letter to the Hospital QA Manager..... believe me that will cause the sh1t to hit the fan.

Plan 4

Take a look at your baby, take a cold beer, take another look at your baby..

[Jayman]

CALL SUNBELT ASIA NOW! yes I am shouting!! You are being held up. My wife had 3 Ceasarians with all 3 of our children. First class private Hospital and we never paid over 15,000 baht per child.

As my wife is goning to be having a baby in a few months I have looked into prices for the birth. At Bangkok-Pattaya (supposedly 1st class) they want like +20,000 for a natural child birth and much more for a c-section.

If you could please give some more details as to where your wife had a c-section (at a ast class hospital) for 15,000 I would be very grateful.

As for OP, my heart is with you during this trying time. I too would recommend you call the US Embassy for help/advice. Your child is in fact a US Citizen and they should help you mediate with the hospital on her behalf.

Good luck to you and you are in our prayers.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Jayman

[observer21]

A couple of moderation points.

Please don't turn this into a hospital bash....or we'll close this thread immediately.

Moving on....

From personal experience, a bill for a totally natural birth at Samtivej with no complications, plus two nights accomadation in a non fancy but private room set us back close to 90K. But, this was before they started the packages, which as far as I know has only been very recently. Any complications, and prices are going to get steep quickly.

Chulalongkorn Uni has an excellent hospital and for this kind of stuff, they have an excellent repulation. You may want to try there. Importanly, it is a government hospital.

As for costs, I don't know what to say. If at any point you decide to move back to Australia in the next 28 weeks with bubs (I am assuming you are an Australian permanent resident), you'll be able to claim the baby bonus. I think it is $4K or $5K that you can get, but it might help defay some of the cost. I may or may not be worth the effort though.

I dont think anyone is bashing hospitals here, just trying to help - i dont think you should threaten to close -  sounds a bit heartless!

To fear honest critisism makes one complicit!

Edited June 24, 2007 by observer21