The Khraps And The Khaas

[chechoie]

How does the Thai practice of ending almost every sentence in Khrap or Khaa effect you?

Yeh, I know these words have various meanings depending on tone and context, and are mostly used as a polite particle, I’m not after a language lecture, I am just curious if:

1. Does it really annoy you?

2. Do you find it endearing?

3. Doesn’t really register with you?

It has always fascinated me. Anybody know when it stared, does it go back a long time?

I don’t know of any other peoples who have this custom.

I know the Singaporeans end every sentence with “Lah” but this is not the same and no where near as sublte as the Kharp or the Khaa

I am very fond of it, don't really know why.

[Davey]

Whenever I converse in Thai it is quite weird, especially when I first started... I feel as though what I am saying doesn't mean anything, it's hard to explain but as you didn't grow up with that language it will be forever hard to understand even if you are fluent. I suppose a good example of that is khrap and khaa as you know it is a polite particle but you don't really know to what extent? I suppose experience will obviously bring a better understanding

[Neeranam]

It used to annoy me, now I think it is quite nice sometimes and quite funny, especially the football commentators. Beckham Kap song(passes) Bakzidane Kap.

Baksida is what the kids call Zidane.

It comes from way back as far as I know, from the Sanskrit language. I'm sure one of the experts will know.

[Jai Dee]

I’m not after a language lecture, I am just curious if:

1. Does it really annoy you?

2. Do you find it endearing?

3. Doesn’t really register with you?

Don't sweat or worry about it...

It is an every day term in every life in every Thai conversation...

If you're hearing it ... be reassured... it's polite and respectful... and if it's said to you, then you have been accepted, and respected, as an equal or higher.

It's an important part of Thai culture... and you must be sure to use the trem too... with the associated respectful body language.

Enjoy your new found respect Khun Chechoie... but always remember to return it too.

[chechoie]

Don't sweat or worry about it... 

It is an every day term in every life in every Thai conversation... 

I thought this might happen.

Thanks for the advice Jai Dee but I know all this.

I worked for 7 years in Thailand and I have a Thai wife.

I was just curious as to how other people handled this parculiar little Thai custom.

Like I said I quite like it.

Thanks anyway

[The Dan Sai Kid]

The advantage of using "khrap" is that even if you don't understand what someone is saying just say it now and again and they will think you speak good thai and that you're very polite.

Edited July 21, 2005 by Grant

[meadish_sweetball]

As a rule - use 'khrap' with strangers, be extra mindful when speaking to people who are older than you or who you meet in a formal setting. You do not need to use khrap so much with people who are younger than you, but you will notice that older Thais (not the parents as much as older friends or relatives) will often use them when speaking to children in order to reinforce the behaviour in the kids. This is a situation where it is quite common for a woman to say 'khrap' (to a little boy) and men to say 'khaa' to little girls. It may sound weird at first, but is something you will get a feel for.

As to how often you use it and the way in which you emphasize the particle and/or prolong the sound, is really a matter of personal style and preference - there are no hard and fast rules - but you will usually notice that if you say 'khrap', the person you speak to will also respond with a polite particle after his/her utterance.

According to my Thai friends and teachers, prolonged 'khraaaaap' and 'khaaaaa' spoken with an airy voice are perceived as more polite - but this pronunciation is a rather new trend spreading from Bangkok speech, and overdoing it creates an effect so sugary that it may be interpreted as sarcasm. I personally don't like this type of speech too much, as it often goes hand in hand with affected and superficial smiles and manners - but this is my own interpretation and reaction, many Thais see it differently.

[OxfordWill]

Another little habit I enjoy is the using of 'na krup' to break up long sentences, as a sort of polite intimator.

(in thai)

So then we look at what this does to the food...na krup...but dont forget to first check the blah blah...na krup..

Sort of said with an urging nod. It's so charming.

[coldcrush]

Hiya all,

There is nothing better in the world when you hear a Thai lady say "Khaa" softly. I think it is like music to the ears.

Either way "I like it".

[Totster]

There is nothing better in the world when you hear a Thai lady say "Khaa" softly.  I think it  is like music to the ears.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes it is...

[Tywais]

How does the Thai practice of ending almost every sentence in Khrap or Khaa effect you?

It has always fascinated me. Anybody know when it stared, does it go back a long time?

I don’t know of any other peoples  who have this custom.

I am very fond of it, don't really know why.

It is so automatic to me anymore including when/where and to whom to use it I never think about it at all. Perhaps because I grew up in Texas (southern USA) where manners are hammered into you such as saying "Yes/no maam" "Yes/no Sir" to anyone senior to you is the norm that it seems natural to me here.

I agree about "kaa", really sweet listening to it, nearly erotic

Edited July 22, 2005 by tywais

[siamesekitty]

"Khaaaa..."

[Khutan]

Its also a polite way of inserting a verbal full-stop.

[Jack Jones]

"Khaaaa..." 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

stop it please, I can't control myself

[~G~]

It comes from way back as far as I know, from the Sanskrit language. I'm sure one of the experts will know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am no expert, but pretty sure this does not come from Sanskrit. Singhalese, the dominant language in Sri Lanka, is much closer to Sanskrit than Thai, and has nothing similar. Niether does Hindi.

[meadish_sweetball]

It comes from way back as far as I know, from the Sanskrit language. I'm sure one of the experts will know.

I am no expert, but pretty sure this does not come from Sanskrit. Singhalese, the dominant language in Sri Lanka, is much closer to Sanskrit than Thai, and has nothing similar. Niether does Hindi.

Without being 100% sure it is my hunch you are right, ~G~.

Final particles used to indicate politeness, familiarity and feelings towards the utterance or speaker are common features of other East Asian Languages such as Vietnamese (Austronesian), Chinese (Sino-Tibetan) and many of the minority languages spoken in East and South East Asia. So far I have not heard about them being common in Indic languages.

[cholakarn]

The original forms of "khrap" and "khaa" are "khorup" and "chaokhaa", which I am sure did not come from Sanskrit.

I have my theories, though:

For "khorup"

There is a phrase, ขอรับใส่เกล้าใส่กระหม่อม (kho rup sai klao sai kramom), which is an honorific ending used when responding to a command from the royal family. The phrase means something like "I shall accept (your command) and revere it above my head".

For "chaokhaa"

It might have come from พระพุทธเจ้าข้า (phraphuttachaokhaa), also an honorific ending used with the royal family. I'm not really sure about the meaning, but it seems to imply Buddha, which is not that strange considering that Buddhism is the mainstream of Thai culture.

However, there is no gender distinction between these phrases. I have no idea how the male and female forms evolved.

I also feel that "khrap" and "khaa" are rather Bangkok things. A lot of older people in the country still prefer to use "ja".

cholakarn

[Totster]

The original forms of "khrap" and "khaa" are "khorup" and "chaokhaa", which I am sure did not come from Sanskrit.

I have my theories, though:

For "khorup"

There is a phrase, ขอรับใส่เกล้าใส่กระหม่อม (kho rup sai klao sai kramom), which is an honorific ending used when responding to a command from the royal family. The phrase means something like "I shall accept (your command) and revere it above my head".

For "chaokhaa"

It might have come from พระพุทธเจ้าข้า (phraphuttachaokhaa), also an honorific ending used with the royal family. I'm not really sure about the meaning, but it seems to imply Buddha, which is not that strange considering that Buddhism is the mainstream of Thai culture.

However, there is no gender distinction between these phrases. I have no idea how the male and female forms evolved.

I also feel that "khrap" and "khaa" are rather Bangkok things. A lot of older people in the country still prefer to use "ja".

cholakarn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting post...

Regarding the "ja"... I tend to hear that alot in Isaan, especially when children are adressing adults... is this the same as you were talking about, or is this just a similar use of Lao.

totster

[Jai Dee]

The original forms of "khrap" and "khaa" are "khorup" and "chaokhaa", which I am sure did not come from Sanskrit.

I have my theories, though:

For "khorup"

There is a phrase, ขอรับใส่เกล้าใส่กระหม่อม (kho rup sai klao sai kramom), which is an honorific ending used when responding to a command from the royal family. The phrase means something like "I shall accept (your command) and revere it above my head".

For "chaokhaa"

It might have come from พระพุทธเจ้าข้า (phraphuttachaokhaa), also an honorific ending used with the royal family. I'm not really sure about the meaning, but it seems to imply Buddha, which is not that strange considering that Buddhism is the mainstream of Thai culture.

However, there is no gender distinction between these phrases. I have no idea how the male and female forms evolved.

I also feel that "khrap" and "khaa" are rather Bangkok things. A lot of older people in the country still prefer to use "ja".

cholakarn

Interesting post...

Regarding the "ja"... I tend to hear that alot in Isaan, especially when children are adressing adults... is this the same as you were talking about, or is this just a similar use of Lao.

totster

Great post cholakarn

The "ja" term is widely used in other regions and cities as well...

I for one have adopted the phrase (afer hearing Thais use it many many times) when trying to attract the attention of a waitress for example... "nong ja..."

"ja" is also commonly used whilst Thais speak on the telephone... "either "dai, dai, dai..." or "ja, ja, ja..."

I don't think it's limited to Isaanites...

(but I could be wrong... )

[BambinA]

Interesting post... 

Regarding the "ja"...  I tend to hear that alot in Isaan, especially when children are adressing adults... is this the same as you were talking about, or is this just a similar use of Lao.

totster 

Great post cholakarn

The "ja" term is widely used in other regions and cities as well...

I for one have adopted the phrase (afer hearing Thais use it many many times) when trying to attract the attention of a waitress for example... "nong ja..."

"ja" is also commonly used whilst Thais speak on the telephone... "either "dai, dai, dai..." or "ja, ja, ja..."

I don't think it's limited to Isaanites... 

(but I could be wrong...  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chai Ja

Bambi

Edited July 27, 2005 by BambinA

[Insight]

I was under the impression that "Jaa" was used when there's affection involved somehow. Me and my g/f use it with each other all the time, but I don't use it with anybody else.

Either way, give me a "jaa" over a "khaa" any day.

[meadish_sweetball]

I was under the impression that "Jaa" was used when there's affection involved somehow. Me and my g/f use it with each other all the time, but I don't use it with anybody else.

Either way, give me a "jaa" over a "khaa" any day.

I posted a long reply to this, but then the freaking database flipped and ate it.

Summary:

Yes, in Central Thai 'jaa' is usually an affectionate particle - it is usually not the right one to use with people you don't know unless you have a flirt going. Also, older people will use it with younger people, as well as female friends with each other, according to my experience it is normally used by the older friend addressing the younger or a friend of the same age.

To Totster: I suspect the Isaan word you heard the kids use to their elders might be 'jao' and not 'jaa' (in some dialects the diphtong 'ao' is not so clear). If so, it is the polite particle used in Lao, equivalent to khrap and khaa in Central Thai. This same particle 'jao' is used in Northern Thailand as well, but then only by women. Northern Thai Men will use 'khap'... if anything.

[Jack Jones]

I was under the impression that 'jaa' was a particle more widely used by females rather than males. To me, it always sounds effeminite when a male uses it.

[amal2029]

It comes from way back as far as I know, from the Sanskrit language. I'm sure one of the experts will know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am no expert, but pretty sure this does not come from Sanskrit. Singhalese, the dominant language in Sri Lanka, is much closer to Sanskrit than Thai, and has nothing similar. Niether does Hindi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am sorry that I have to disagree with u Sir. Sinhala language do not have any meaning to "Karp" or "Ka". I know this because I am a Sinhalese...

[meadish_sweetball]

I was under the impression that 'jaa' was a particle more widely used by females rather than males. To me, it always sounds effeminite when a male uses it.

You wouldnt use it with a male friend, but addressing your darling it is fine. It depends on how macho you look and want to present yourself as, I guess. If you're a 6 foot plus body builder with tats and a beard, it might sound funny.

I would not personally use "nong jaa" to call a waiter or waitress at the restaurant, much rather use just "nong" or "nong khrap".

[chechoie]

At last !

This is the response I wanted.

Keep it going folks; let’s find out where this strange and endearing custom came from.

Lets find out how far back it goes and how it came to be.

(You can do it)

Let’s get to the bottom of it, and then we can maybe even let some Thais in on why they use this particular language trait.

(Do I know something you don't know? I bet that gets you Thai

language "experts going)

[meadish_sweetball]

Are you being sarcastic, chechoie?

We appreciate if you share your knowledge here instead of keeping it to yourself; sharing knowledge and experiences with others being the primary point of the forum. We all want more native Thai posters, but unfortunately only a few have found their way here so far. (Some got put off by the insults from a certain foul feline that used to pry around these parts).

[chechoie]

Are you being sarcastic, chechoie?

We appreciate if you share your knowledge here instead of keeping it to yourself;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Meadish, I am not being sarcastic, I assure you.

There are some very fine students, (dare I say scholars), of the Thai language on this forum. You in particular, you have my respect.

Please, play along with me for a while. Take the bait, (you know you want to).

Do a bit of research, (I am sure you are used to that), into the “Kharps and the Khaas and let me know what you come up with.

Sincerely Yours,

Chechoie,

[meadish_sweetball]

Are you being sarcastic, chechoie?

We appreciate if you share your knowledge here instead of keeping it to yourself;

No Meadish, I am not being sarcastic, I assure you.

There are some very fine students, (dare I say scholars), of the Thai language on this forum. You in particular, you have my respect.

Please, play along with me for a while. Take the bait, (you know you want to).

Do a bit of research, (I am sure you are used to that), into the “Kharps and the Khaas and let me know what you come up with.

Sincerely Yours,

Chechoie,

Ok, just wanted to check. It's easy to misunderstand people.

Thanks for the praise, but there is no need to show special respect for me, I am a student of the Thai language just like everybody else - plenty of other posters, farang and Thai alike, are above my own level in different respects.

[Totster]

I don't think it's limited to Isaanites... 

(but I could be wrong...  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are right Jai Dee.... but it is in isaan where I have heard it more (but as that is where I spend most of my time, it's not surprising i suppose )

see below also

I was under the impression that "Jaa" was used when there's affection involved somehow. Me and my g/f use it with each other all the time, but I don't use it with anybody else.

Either way, give me a "jaa" over a "khaa" any day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I posted a long reply to this, but then the freaking database flipped and ate it.

Summary:

Yes, in Central Thai 'jaa' is usually an affectionate particle - it is usually not the right one to use with people you don't know unless you have a flirt going. Also, older people will use it with younger people, as well as female friends with each other, according to my experience it is normally used by the older friend addressing the younger or a friend of the same age.

To Totster: I suspect the Isaan word you heard the kids use to their elders might be 'jao' and not 'jaa' (in some dialects the diphtong 'ao' is not so clear). If so, it is the polite particle used in Lao, equivalent to khrap and khaa in Central Thai. This same particle 'jao' is used in Northern Thailand as well, but then only by women. Northern Thai Men will use 'khap'... if anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Meadish.. I have often heard "jaa" after my name.. "danny Jaa", I wasn't sure this was what people were talking about earlier in the thread... is this also used in the same was as Khrup and Kaa..? I didn't think they were the same..

Regarding the "Jao/Ja"...

This is how I understood it (as you explained above). When my wife and I went to Vientiane, One of the language differences she explained to me was the fact that they [lao people] said "jao" and not "ja".. She also found it strange (but she liked it, in a "cute" way) when she heard the males saying it also.

I always wondered whether "jao/ja" was accpetable for use in place of "khrup/Kaa"... whenever I asked my wife she it was ok to use, I think she was meaning literally and not whether it was actually used in everyday conversation by males.

Anyway, this has confirmed some points for me, and been informative also.

totster