Pattaya - The New Deadwood?

[HowardJohnson]

Hi,

I don't post much but enjoy reading the various comments made here and in other sections but this seemingly rapid increase in violence has prompted me to ask a question.

I spent 4 great weeks in Pattaya in Sept and Dec last year and at no point did me or my companion ever feel threatened or concerned for our safety in any way, even when staggering up Beach Road at 4am. Now, this may have something to do with the fact that we are both fairly large, are never aggresive - always having a good time and are sensible enough to be aware of our surroundings.

We are looking to come back this Sept but having seen recent reports of shootings and beatings, I have to ask the question of all you Pattaya residents:

Were we just lucky and /or ignorant of any problems at the time we visited?

Have things really taken a turn for the worse since the new year?

Cheers?

[barryofthailand]

Like any aother fairly large cities, if you wonder down dark strets in the wee hours alone you are looking for trouble. Most people that find trouble in Pattaya are not using comon sense. Pattaya is as safe as any other city, but if you are looking for trouble you will find it.

Barry

[Thaipwriter]

Hi,

I don't post much but enjoy reading the various comments made here and in other sections but this seemingly rapid increase in violence has prompted me to ask a question.

I spent 4 great weeks in Pattaya in Sept and Dec last year and at no point did me or my companion ever feel threatened or concerned for our safety in any way, even when staggering up Beach Road at 4am. Now, this may have something to do with the fact that we are both fairly large, are never aggresive - always having a good time and are sensible enough to be aware of our surroundings.

We are looking to come back this Sept but having seen recent reports of shootings and beatings, I have to ask the question of all you Pattaya residents:

Were we just lucky and /or ignorant of any problems at the time we visited?

Have things really taken a turn for the worse since the new year?

Cheers?

I'm not a resident, it seems that every single incident of mischief or crime or whatever in Pattaya ends up published on here. That, and the fact that there are many folks with a healthy dislike for the place (me included! LOL) makes for a moan fest.

These factors could, to the newcomer make Pattaya sound as welcoming as a fortninght in The Bronx.

As a short term visitor you tend only to see the glitz and the smiles and you form an opinion based on that experince. Long term observers or residents have had the time to see past the smiles and form opinions on what really goes on there though.

[britmaveric]

No worse than any other place in thailand or the world IMHO. It's magnified in Patters simply because not much going on elsewhere in the news, so a 1-3 sentence minor story elsewhere is turned into a major news event.

I think honestly if you use common sense, the likelyhood is minimal that anything bad will happen to you in Patters. (lack of common sense always seems to be the downfall of most of the news worthy events here)

[lamphun]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

[britmaveric]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

Interesting I know quite a few people and they've yet to be burgled. However I do know some in Bangkok that have had that problem.

[davethailand]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

I have'nt nor have any of my friends.

[Mobi]

Thailand has been violent country for as long as I can remember. Life is cheap, and thousands of Thais are murdered very year.

A vast majority of these murders and other crimes rarely involve foreigners, and even rarer do they involve tourists. There have been a few high profile rapes of female tourisists, which happens in most world wide tourist spots . Apart from this, the violent crimes and murders involving foreigners have usually been against long term residents or sometimes, loutish, drunken Eeropean tourists (mainly Brits) who think they can behave here as they do back home.

I do not have any statistics of violent crimes against foreigners, but if the news reports are anything to go by, I doubt it is more than two or three per week for the whole of Thailand, and considering that in Pattaya alone there were something like 4 million tourists last year, I'd say that is likely to be a very low number

Interpol reports that in Thailand in 2001 (the latest year of records) there were 5,027 murders (14 per day), 20862 sexual offences, excluding rape (57 per day), 3847 rapes (11 per day) 21,054 serious assaults (58 per day) and it goes on and on.

So from these stats we can assume that the number of crimes against foreigners is very low, and I think it is reasonable to assume that in general Thailand and Pattaya is still a pretty safe place for foreigners, and it is only a few drunken brawlers and farangs who get involved in business or domestic disputes and put their heads 'above the parapet' who are increasing their risk of becoming part of those statistics.

I feel a lot safer here than I have done in most places I have lived - including Bangkok.

[tuky]

touch wood, we have not been burgled, and our house is more often than not left unlocked.

I have had a go at the missus before, but nothing has changed as she still leaves a spare key in a shoe at the door just in case a rellie comes to visit.

In a way, I hope to be burgled so my wife appreciates all that is involved.

Of course all of value is locked in a safe that could only be removed using dynamite. And until I build my dream home we only have a cheapo tv, nothing worth stealing.

Although, for a while there wwere several break ins in our moo baan, it turned out that every house that was broken into had a security system installed by the same company...........TiT

[tuky]

However, my wifes cousin was shot a few months ago. She is one of the ugliest woman I have ever seen, but someones wife thought she was butterflying with her hubby so she had her shot. 55555555555

In all truth the woman in question is a tom.

ANyway, she recovered from the shooting as she only copped it in the arm.

But for a while we all drove with our windows down to make sure everyone knew she was not in our car...

[naka]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

How many folks do you know that live in Pattaya ?

How many of them have been burgled once ?

How many of them have been burgled more than once ?

Where are YOUR statistics ?

Naka.

Edited May 5, 2006 by naka

[wilko]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

A highly suspect conclusion from the "my cat has 4 legs therefore it's a dog" school of thought.

I would suspect any rise in crime, if that actually IS the case and not merely a perseption is a result of increased population - more people more crime...

[MisterFingers]

Hi,

I don't post much but enjoy reading the various comments made here and in other sections but this seemingly rapid increase in violence has prompted me to ask a question.

I've also noticed this substantial increase in violent crimes against foreigners in Pattaya.

Before, I would look at the news websites, and all the violent crimes were Thais on Thais, such as gang wars, etc.

I kind had of the impression that they didn't want to bite the hand that fed them.

But lately, in the past six months or so, some groundbreaking has happened. A new shift in the violent crimes. Now pretty close to 30% of them are committed against foreigners.

Usually soft targets, such as drunks alone late at night, and the motive is usually robbery.

It's progressive because ideas like that catch on.

They're thinking, "Easy target, quick money, good idea."

A certain kind of evolution, that won't be reversed.

The only thing that will help now is increased police patrols, and them doing something useful for a change.

Instead of raiding bars and checking all the customers for drugs, a very wasteful and useless thing for them to do.

Edited May 5, 2006 by MisterFingers

[lampard10]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

And most of the folks I know that live in Ramsgate have been burgled twice. I was unlucky.three times.

[kurgen]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

And most of the folks I know that live in Ramsgate have been burgled twice. I was unlucky.three times.

Anyone who's lives in Ramsgate is unlucky

[wilko]

But lately, in the past six months or so, some groundbreaking has happened. A new shift in the violent crimes. Now pretty close to 30% of them are committed against foreigners.

Usually soft targets, such as drunks alone late at night, and the motive is usually robbery.

The only thing that will help now is increased police patrols, and them doing something useful for a change.

Instead of raiding bars and checking all the customers for drugs, a very wasteful and useless thing for them to do.

Can you tell me where you get a figure like 30% from? Over what period? Presumably the figures for the last 6 months are police figures...that would mean an increase in reported crimes and not necessarily a reflction of the actual crime rate...

[thaiflyer1]

I've also noticed this substantial increase in violent crimes against foreigners in Pattaya.

Before, I would look at the news websites, and all the violent crimes were Thais on Thais, such as gang wars, etc.

I kind had of the impression that they didn't want to bite the hand that fed them.

But lately, in the past six months or so, some groundbreaking has happened. A new shift in the violent crimes. Now pretty close to 30% of them are committed against foreigners.

Usually soft targets, such as drunks alone late at night, and the motive is usually robbery.

It's progressive because ideas like that catch on.

They're thinking, "Easy target, quick money, good idea."

A certain kind of evolution, that won't be reversed.

The only thing that will help now is increased police patrols, and them doing something useful for a change.

Instead of raiding bars and checking all the customers for drugs, a very wasteful and useless thing for them to do.

Got to agree with the above.

Ive said in previous recent threads that its all starting to get out of hand . ...............and no i have no statistics to quote its just a gut feeling of a sense of unease when travelling around town especially at night.

Wonder if the BIB know or care about the concerns being expressed in the farang quarter..............maybe HM could use some of his "connections" to voice our concerns to the powers that be?

Edit.....better add................agree with most of the above.............ive no idea about the 30% figure.

Edited May 5, 2006 by thaiflyer1

[wilko]

I've also noticed this substantial increase in violent crimes against foreigners in Pattaya.

Before, I would look at the news websites, and all the violent crimes were Thais on Thais, such as gang wars, etc.

I kind had of the impression that they didn't want to bite the hand that fed them.

But lately, in the past six months or so, some groundbreaking has happened. A new shift in the violent crimes. Now pretty close to 30% of them are committed against foreigners.

Usually soft targets, such as drunks alone late at night, and the motive is usually robbery.

It's progressive because ideas like that catch on.

They're thinking, "Easy target, quick money, good idea."

A certain kind of evolution, that won't be reversed.

The only thing that will help now is increased police patrols, and them doing something useful for a change.

Instead of raiding bars and checking all the customers for drugs, a very wasteful and useless thing for them to do.

Got to agree with the above.

Ive said in previous recent threads that its all starting to get out of hand . ...............and no i have no statistics to quote its just a gut feeling of a sense of unease when travelling around town especially at night.

Wonder if the BIB know or care about the concerns being expressed in the farang quarter..............maybe HM could use some of his "connections" to voice our concerns to the powers that be?

Edit.....better add................agree with most of the above.............ive no idea about the 30% figure.

The fear of crime is very real...but it doesn't necessarily correlate with the actual occurrence of crime be it an increase or decrease. (Have you ever heard of a decrease in crime?)

A gut feeling may be a good one or if just derived from the risible news reporting of the local media in Pattaya. You may be barking up the wrong tree.

There is a fine balance to be achieved somewhere between "blissfully unaware" and "total paranoia".

The fact is that many more crimes are reported nowadays and many more people are arrested as a result…this does not necessarily reflect an overall increase in crimes. (For instance 20 years ago virtually no paedophiles were prosecuted here, yet the crime itself here is probably on the decrease). Also the larger a place becomes the greater the number of crimes per capita and square kilometre.

VIOLENCE - Many surveys (in particular I’m thinking of one in Oz about 5 years ago) reported that you have a greater chance of being attacked in small towns as there are fewer places for people to socialise and so they end up “treading on each others’ toes”.

THEFT - Western money will always attract crime in a poorer country, but I think that the general nature of Thailand leads to a lesser predisposition towards such crimes as theft than in such countries as UK, and the USA.

Anyway I’m going to be very wary before I jump on any “increase in crime” bandwagon just yet. I’ll wait for a few years reliable statistics and then see what happens. In the mean time I’ll still as always think about where I am at night, what I’m carrying and try not to look like a victim!

[lamphun]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

A highly suspect conclusion from the "my cat has 4 legs therefore it's a dog" school of thought.

I would suspect any rise in crime, if that actually IS the case and not merely a perseption is a result of increased population - more people more crime...

I'd suspect it's due to the larger proportion of criminals per head than any other place in Thailand. Lets face it Pattaya is a magnet for low lifes. Those expatriates who've come to Pattaya from abroad may think the place is normal, but for someone who lives in another part of Thailand it's like a different country.

As I've said before Pattaya does Thailand one service, by attracting large numbers of gangsters it keeps the crime rate down for the rest of us.

Edited May 5, 2006 by lamphun

[Buckwheat]

24 of the last 100 postings on this forum have been "news clippings" concerning various incidents around Pattaya.

Since no other local forum posts "news clippings" (including the largest city in Thailand...Bangkok) en masse like this one, I would assume it would give the new or curious reader some degree of concern.

If Pattaya is "No worse than any other place in thailand" why isn't 24% of the content of all the other locations also "news clippings" concerning various incidents? Or are all the "news clippings" from these locations in the forum that was created for them... the "Thailand News Clippings" forum?

[Mobi]

The fear of crime is very real...but it doesn't necessarily correlate with the actual occurrence of crime be it an increase or decrease. (Have you ever heard of a decrease in crime?)

A gut feeling may be a good one or if just derived from the risible news reporting of the local media in Pattaya. You may be barking up the wrong tree.

There is a fine balance to be achieved somewhere between "blissfully unaware" and "total paranoia".

The fact is that many more crimes are reported nowadays and many more people are arrested as a result…this does not necessarily reflect an overall increase in crimes. (For instance 20 years ago virtually no paedophiles were prosecuted here, yet the crime itself here is probably on the decrease). Also the larger a place becomes the greater the number of crimes per capita and square kilometre.

VIOLENCE - Many surveys (in particular I’m thinking of one in Oz about 5 years ago) reported that you have a greater chance of being attacked in small towns as there are fewer places for people to socialise and so they end up “treading on each others’ toes”.

THEFT - Western money will always attract crime in a poorer country, but I think that the general nature of Thailand leads to a lesser predisposition towards such crimes as theft than in such countries as UK, and the USA.

Anyway I’m going to be very wary before I jump on any “increase in crime” bandwagon just yet. I’ll wait for a few years reliable statistics and then see what happens. In the mean time I’ll still as always think about where I am at night, what I’m carrying and try not to look like a victim!

A very good post.

We can all speculate away (me included) but we have no real clue as to what the crime stats really are.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned there were over 5,000 murders in Thailand in 2001, and one can only assume the annual number has increased sisnce then. That's more than 13 murders for every day of the year. Where are all these murders being comitted?

We really need some decent stats before we can jump to alarmist conclusions.

What is the real population of Pattaya? How many farangs are staying here at any one time? (residents, visa runners and genuine tourists) What percentage of the overall Pattaya population does that represent?

What is the crime rate as a percentage of population in Pattaya compared to other towns/cities? (Someone recently wrote that Pattaya is now the second largest city in Thailand, after Bangkok, if you take the real population.)

What is the crime rate against farangs, and how does it compare with the crime rate against Thais?

How does the crime rate in Pattaya compare to other world tourists spots?

I have a gut feeling that in spite of all the recent unfortunate events, it would transpire that Pattaya is still a pretty safe place for foreigners to live or take a holiday.

But maybe we'll never know for sure.

[Mobi]

24 of the last 100 postings on this forum have been "news clippings" concerning various incidents around Pattaya.

Since no other local forum posts "news clippings" (including the largest city in Thailand...Bangkok) en masse like this one, I would assume it would give the new or curious reader some degree of concern.

If Pattaya is "No worse than any other place in thailand" why isn't 24% of the content of all the other locations also "news clippings" concerning various incidents? Or are all the "news clippings" from these locations in the forum that was created for them... the "Thailand News Clippings" forum?

I think the answer is quite simple.

Pattaya, with its very large expat population has 3 - maybe 4 English languge newspapers, plus English languge TV news. These publications are of the tabloid variety, and revel in news stories about Farangs involved in or the victims of crime. So this being an English language forum, it is very easy for the cut 'n' paste merchants to plaster this stuff all over the TV Pattaya forum.

In Bangkok, the Bangkok Post and Nation operate a far more conservative policy on these types of crimes, and they rarely make the front page, and many crimes against farangs remain unreported. I may be wrong, but I haven't yet seen any mention of the killing of Steve Parkinson in either of the Bangkok newspapers. In any event, it would seem that George et al usually concentrate on posting other newsworthy items and leave the lurid stuff to Brit Maverick in Pattaya.

That's what I think, anyway.

[Patex]

...I may be wrong, but I haven't yet seen any mention of the killing of Steve Parkinson in either of the Bangkok newspapers...

It was at least on the frontpage from the Thai- newspaper "Daily News", nationwide.

Don't get the wrong picture about crime in Thailand! The fact that Pattaya is often in the New's is just because all the media is present.

The daily killing in Nakorn nowhere only shows up in the statistics, seldom in the newspapers or on TV, reporters/journalists are prefer not to stay "Ban oog"...

Patex

[Diablo Bob]

I come from a part of California, where after dark, you try not to go outside at night if all together possible. The gang violence had become so territorial that to just drive down some roads was inviting gunfire if your car was not recognized as a "Friendly".

I have lived in Las Vegas for many years and have seen the crime associated with a "Tourist" town, with people flaunting their money and wealth. At least a person a day get's whacked in this city of lights.

While I have enjoyed bashing Pattaya whenever given the opportunity, for what it is worth, I really enjoy and like this unique Thai city. No, it doesn't espouse the simplicity of Issan nor the beauty of the North. It's main claim to fame is the bars and the girls, the beach is not as clean as it once was, and to no fault of Pattaya. The garbage floating down the Chopaya from Bangkok is the chief culprit.

Now that I am no longer single, I bring the wife and kids to sit on Jomtien Beach, eat Shrimp, drink beer and just enjoy the atmosphere. I still feel safe, but then again, my evenings are essentially over by 10pm when the 3 year old is falling asleep.

Is crime on the rise in Pattaya, well probably, but considering everything, I still feel comfortable bringing my family to town. Overall, if you don't do something stupid, don't act aggressivly just go with the flow, Pattaya is still a place to enjoy, again, and again, and again.

Just my opinion.

[bulmercke]

I've been going to Pattaya for the last thirteen years and it's difficult to ascertain whether crime has increased, decreased or is depressingly still just as prevalent.

BUT if you check out the Pattaya News Service, Pattaya Mail, Pattaya Today, Pattaya People you'll notice in any one week period a helluva lot of crime related stories. Everyday there's a crime reported, sometimes several.

The letters pages also detail other crimes that don't make it to the news sections.

AND these are just those that make into the media.

Last time my wife and I were there, the Thai folks who work the deck-chairs on Pattaya beach told my wife about a serious incident the evening before in a restaurant on Central Road between two groups of Thais when one of the diners had his throat slashed and according to the Thais talking about this incident was lucky to suvive.

As far as I know there was no mention of this anywhere.

Also last Christmas - a foreigner was beaten to death in the car park of the Nana hotel on Sukhumvit Road and two westerm women were seriously injured after being attacked in a tuk-tuk near Khoa San Road and again nothing in the papers!

The Nation and The Post nowadays seem to rarely report serious crime. Guess they just don't have the stringers on the ground or more likely there is pressure being put on then from above to down play the everyday violence that is so prevalent in Thailand.

[Morty]

No worse than any other place in thailand

What statistics are you basing that comment on ?

Most of the folks I know that live in Pattaya have been burgled at least once.

A highly suspect conclusion from the "my cat has 4 legs therefore it's a dog" school of thought.

I would suspect any rise in crime, if that actually IS the case and not merely a perseption is a result of increased population - more people more crime...

I'd suspect it's due to the larger proportion of criminals per head than any other place in Thailand. Lets face it Pattaya is a magnet for low lifes. Those expatriates who've come to Pattaya from abroad may think the place is normal, but for someone who lives in another part of Thailand it's like a different country.

As I've said before Pattaya does Thailand one service, by attracting large numbers of gangsters it keeps the crime rate down for the rest of us.

I've been living in Pattaya for some time now, The only burglery I've experienced was my mother in law visiting for two months, and when she went home to her house (in a moban i Surin), she had been burglered. she didn't make a police repport though, witch I think is custumury (spelling). Farangs, on the other hand, seems to repport everything, due to insurence and so on. So saying crimes only happens in pattaya is redicilous, and shows that the OP doesn't live in LOS or has been very unlucky when picking his friends. BTW. I have lots of farang friends in LOS and it isn't even a theme of discussion.

PS!

my friends all has wives and families, and don't staggering around in the sois between sai nung and sai song in the early morning hours.

just my 2satang

[Phil Conners]

24 of the last 100 postings on this forum have been "news clippings" concerning various incidents around Pattaya.

Since no other local forum posts "news clippings" (including the largest city in Thailand...Bangkok) en masse like this one, I would assume it would give the new or curious reader some degree of concern.

If Pattaya is "No worse than any other place in thailand" why isn't 24% of the content of all the other locations also "news clippings" concerning various incidents? Or are all the "news clippings" from these locations in the forum that was created for them... the "Thailand News Clippings" forum?

Being Thailands second largest city with some 1.5m people I think it's quite obvious that there will be more crime. As a percentage of the population I don't think it's worse than anywhere else. If anything, in the Pattaya area the locals are more used to farangs so probably less likely to target same.

[Noel]

While I have enjoyed bashing Pattaya whenever given the opportunity, for what it is worth, I really enjoy and like this unique Thai city.

Pattaya is still a place to enjoy, again, and again, and again.

Just my opinion.

Priceless!

[Noel]

Edit: Inadvertent duplicate post caused by slow upload deleted. More server problems?

Edited May 5, 2006 by Noel

[britmaveric]

More clippings than anywhere else - because every lil incident seems to be reported in Pattaya. I check a few other thailand city sites and they don't seem to report them. I think its just a particular mind set with the news sites in Pattaya. What they consider news worthy only comes up as a blip elsewhere. I have a feeling heaps of news elsewhere simply isn't reported unless its a serious case such as murder. (no hiding that)