Sterilization Of Stray Dogs In Pattaya

[pumpuiman]

Q3. If stray dog population control is the issue, wouldn’t it make more sense to kill the dogs or take them away?

A3. Removal or killing of stray dogs seems to be the most obvious method of controlling the population, but it has actually proved to be completely useless. This is because even when large numbers of dogs are killed, the conditions that sustain dog populations remain unchanged. Dogs are territorial and each one lives in its own specific area. When they are removed, the following things happen:

* The food source – garbage – is still available in abundance, so dogs from neighbouring areas enter the vacant territories.

* Pups born and growing up in the surrounding areas also move in to occupy these vacant niches.

* The few dogs who escape capture and remain behind attack these newcomers, leading to frequent and prolonged dog-fights.

* Since they are not sterilised, all the dogs who escape capture continue to mate, leading to more fighting.

* In the course of fights, dogs often accidentally redirect their aggression towards people passing by, so many humans get bitten.

* Females with pups become aggressive and often attack pedestrians who come too close to their litter.

* They breed at a very high rate (two litters of pups a year). It has been estimated that two dogs can multiply to over 300 in three years.

Since dogs who are removed are quickly replaced, the population does not decrease at all. The main factors leading to dog aggression – migration and mating – continue to exist, so the nuisance factor remains.

Since removal of dogs actually increases dog-related problems, the effective solution is to sterilise the dogs, vaccinate them against rabies and put them back in their own areas.

Q4. But what’s the point of putting the dogs back after sterilisation? Doesn’t the problem just continue?

A4. No, when dogs are sterilised and put back in their own area, the population and the problems caused by dogs both reduce. Here’s how:

* Each dog guards its own territory and does not allow new dogs to enter

* Since they are all neutered, they no longer mate or multiply

* The main factors leading to dog aggression – migration and mating - are eliminated. So dog-fights reduce dramatically

* With the decrease in fighting, bites to humans also decrease

* Since females no longer have pups to protect, this source of dog aggression is also eliminated

* Over a period of time, as the sterilised dogs die natural deaths, the population is greatly reduced.

Removal or killing dogs is not the answer, as this study undertaken in India suggests. The dogs must be sterilised and allowed to remain.

http://www.wsdindia.org/FAQs/faqs.htm

[BlackJack]

it could take 10 years

killing is the answer

start 1 a day now in your neighbourhood

soon enough they will all be gone

i think in 2 weeks i can have my area under control

[pumpuiman]

it could take 10 years

killing is the answer

start 1 a day now in your neighbourhood

soon enough they will all be gone

i think in 2 weeks i can have my area under control

Please take the time to read the original post, or do a little research, you will come to find why that wont work. It has been tried, and failed. Sterilization has been proven efffective.

[wilko]

THere was a scheme in Pattaya to rid it of dogs, but the money all mysteriously went missing....or so I'm told.

I heartily agree that a sterilisation program is the only effective way to deal with the problem.....or can we just feed the bitches the pill or something?

What is needed is some rich animal loving benefactor to set up a dog welfare scheme, capturing daogs treating the treatable, humanely destroying the incurable and sterilizing all of them.

It would also help if people who actually owned dogs showed a bit more public resposability when it comes to their behaviour. The only dog ever to bite me was a black and white bitch belonoging to a hotel on 3rd road. Apparently it had bitten several people...I had to have a course of rabies jabs....

[think_too_mut]

it could take 10 years

killing is the answer

start 1 a day now in your neighbourhood

soon enough they will all be gone

i think in 2 weeks i can have my area under control

Please take the time to read the original post, or do a little research, you will come to find why that wont work. It has been tried, and failed. Sterilization has been proven efffective.

So, when a sterilized dog dies, there is no other dog to come in and fill the void?

IMO, killing is the answer. If new dogs come in, kill them too.

[wilko]

I would have thought the poster above had lay out the reasons why straight killing doesn't work.....you can't kill every dog in Thailand, you have to put in place systems that couse the population to dwindle and not recover, you can only do this by taking and holistic approach

[think_too_mut]

I would have thought the poster above had lay out the reasons why straight killing doesn't work.....you can't kill every dog in Thailand, you have to put in place systems that couse the population to dwindle and not recover, you can only do this by taking and holistic approach

Ok, the a combination of intitial removal of stray dogs and then that policy of sterilization would be the solution.

It takes money and resources to introduce it nationwide. Had they been able to do it, the problem would not have mounted to this proportion.

I don't know, there could be a policy that dog owners have to take their pets for vaccination. That cost some money and people simply abandon them. Knowing nobody will come to catch the unaccounted dogs, they just live nearby and breed. That public service that either does not exist or has no resources would now have to castrate all the dogs. How would that happen?

Even if all or most of stray dogs were killed today, I don't know which public department would go around just to collect the carcases.

The study came from India - it has not solved their own problem. For example, at the Bangalore airport, a team of shooters in a jeep is dispatched several times a day to kill stray dogs that popped up on the runway.

It is bad in Thailand, it's still not that dramatic as in the country that is the source of the study.

Edited December 3, 2006 by think_too_mut

[rocky]

Horses for courses, holiday resorts in Thailand should not have any stray dogs; zero tolerance should be applied by city hall.

collect and destroy, 2 months later collect and destroy.

[wilko]

I don't think you realise quite how many dogs are in Pattaya. Cleen up the rubbish and you reduce the food supply, culling won't work....it's been shown in many places.

The airport you mention may shoot dogs on the runway for safety reasons, but they stil get more dogs don't they?

[think_too_mut]

I don't think you realise quite how many dogs are in Pattaya. Cleen up the rubbish and you reduce the food supply, culling won't work....it's been shown in many places.

The airport you mention may shoot dogs on the runway for safety reasons, but they stil get more dogs don't they?

At Bangalore airport, it's not culling. Just destroying the dogs who came up to the runway.

Who knows what strategies are in place if they generate enough of the dogs to get into the runway.

Probably, nothing.

Try it this way:

One mosquito bites you.

Why is it so strange to spray the room indiscriminately and kill them all?

You have never done that?

Or, you go and locate the culprit and teach him a lesson while leaving others to sit and watch?

[PATTAYAPUNTER]

Horses for courses, holiday resorts in Thailand should not have any stray dogs; zero tolerance should be applied by city hall.

collect and destroy, 2 months later collect and destroy.

This is good thinking!

[pumpuiman]

"Each habitat has a specific carrying capacity for each species. This specific carrying capacity depends on the availability of resources (shelter, food, water). The density of a population of higher vertebrates (including dogs) is almost always near the carrying capacity of the environment. Any reduction in population density through mortality is rapidly compensated by better reproduction and survival. In other words when dogs are removed, the survivors’ life expectancy increases because they have better access to the resources, and there is less competition for resources"

— World Health Organisation Guidelines for Dog Population Management,

Geneva 1990, page 9.

"In the long term, control of reproduction is by far the most effective strategy of dog population management"

— W.H.O., Geneva,

Guidelines for Dog Population Management, page 72

"Removal and killing of dogs should never be considered as the most effective way of dealing with a problem of surplus dogs in the community: it has no effect whatsoever on the root cause of the problem."

— Guidelines for Dog Population Management, W.H.O. Geneva 1990 (page 74).

Here is another link http://www.fpcc.ro/index.php?lang=en&p...mp;homepg=howto

Edited December 3, 2006 by pumpuiman

[pumpuiman]

Horses for courses, holiday resorts in Thailand should not have any stray dogs; zero tolerance should be applied by city hall.

collect and destroy, 2 months later collect and destroy.

This is good thinking!

This is not good thinking. I am not some tree hugging PETA member blowing my horn here. If killing were the answer, I'd support it.

You have to look at the facts. The World Health Organization supports the idea of sterilization/neutering. The W.H.O also has studied the effects of killing in comparison.........It doesn't work.

[pumpuiman]

it could take 10 years

killing is the answer

start 1 a day now in your neighbourhood

soon enough they will all be gone

i think in 2 weeks i can have my area under control

Studies show 5-8 years. Please read the studies conducted before endorsing killing as a solution.

[PATTAYAPUNTER]

I was wondering if the dogs could be rounded up with the Indian tailors who want to shake your hand and the vendors on the beach?

Anymore room in this round-up for jetski drivers near the beaches and ladyboys on soi 6/1 who say "I go with you?"

I'll get my coat...

[tropo]

Removal or killing dogs is not the answer, as this study undertaken in India suggests. The dogs must be sterilised and allowed to remain.

There's a big difference in the conditions where those studies were undertaken and Pattaya. Pattaya is far cleaner and more sparsely populated than India. There may be some South East Asian cities that parallel conditions in India, but definitely not Pattaya. Indian cities are the dirtiest on the planet. Garbage collection in Pattaya is frequent and the place is relatively clean.

All that is required in Pattaya is the same that is required in most modern western cities. Full-time dog (animal) patrols picking up stays for 8 to 10 hours a day. You don't do this occasionally, you keep it up full time. It'll soon get the stray dog population under control. Pattaya has grown up, and needs to start behaving like a real city. It's now 30 minutes closer to the airport so it's going to get very busy. They just can't afford to have dogs running around biting all those new tourists.

Edited December 3, 2006 by tropo

[wilko]

pumpuiman....I think there are some peole her who if you told them the world was round still wouldn't believe you.

Think too mut...go think a little more and your posting might become inteligible...I have no idea what you're talking about....

[poppa]

I was wondering if the dogs could be rounded up with the Indian tailors who want to shake your hand and the vendors on the beach?

Anymore room in this round-up for jetski drivers near the beaches and ladyboys on soi 6/1 who say "I go with you?"

I'll get my coat...

i was waiting for one of you arsewipes to come up with this, THE FINAL SOLUTION , I THINK THE FINAL SOLUTION WOULD BE, TO ROUND UP ALL THE ARSEWIPES , OR SHOULD WE SAY ,GUEST OF THIS COUNTRY , WHO ARE NOT HAPPY HERE , AND THROW THEM OUT , GO BACK TO YOUR SHIT HOLE , AND MOAN ABOUT LIFE THERE

[wilko]

Well we all know who came up with the expression "final solution"!!!!

[wilko]

Removal or killing dogs is not the answer, as this study undertaken in India suggests. The dogs must be sterilised and allowed to remain.

There's a big difference in the conditions where those studies were undertaken and Pattaya. Pattaya is far cleaner and more sparsely populated than India. There may be some South East Asian cities that parallel conditions in India, but definitely not Pattaya. Indian cities are the dirtiest on the planet. Garbage collection in Pattaya is frequent and the place is relatively clean.

All that is required in Pattaya is the same that is required in most modern western cities. Full-time dog (animal) patrols picking up stays for 8 to 10 hours a day. You don't do this occasionally, you keep it up full time. It'll soon get the stray dog population under control. Pattaya has grown up, and needs to start behaving like a real city. It's now 30 minutes closer to the airport so it's going to get very busy. They just can't afford to have dogs running around biting all those new tourists.

Rubbish!

[rocky]

Stray dogs are not tolerated in other Asian areas such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan why should Pattaya be any different. An international city has to behave in such a manor.

Why should tourist families arriving here in Pattaya for there two week holiday be constantly scared or fearful of attacks from the ever increasing stray dog situation, either to them selves or to their children. This is a disgraceful situation.

These dogs stray starting at the beach and carry on all the way to Bangkok and invade every soi in between.

The main cause of the increase and continuation of the stray dogs in this fine city is City Halls non long term stray dog plan. As said earlier on this thread. A full time van and team rounding up the dogs and relocating them away from tourist areas.

An international city can only maintain such a status if it behaves in such a way.

[pumpuiman]

Stray dogs are not tolerated in other Asian areas such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan why should Pattaya be any different. An international city has to behave in such a manor.

Why should tourist families arriving here in Pattaya for there two week holiday be constantly scared or fearful of attacks from the ever increasing stray dog situation, either to them selves or to their children. This is a disgraceful situation.

These dogs stray starting at the beach and carry on all the way to Bangkok and invade every soi in between.

The main cause of the increase and continuation of the stray dogs in this fine city is City Halls non long term stray dog plan. As said earlier on this thread. A full time van and team rounding up the dogs and relocating them away from tourist areas.

An international city can only maintain such a status if it behaves in such a way.

The long term solution you are looking for seems to be sterilisation. Take a little time to read the links provided. The World Health website also has a search function.

I posted this topic after researching the subject, and was surprised at the findings. I too, as it seems many people, originally thought killing was the only solution. After studying up a bit, the facts presented themselves to the contrary. I changed my way of thinking. After reviewing the facts I now support sterilisation.

I did not intend to start a debate, but to present what I thought was a solution to the problem.

[rocky]

I did read the info you posted, very informative.

If this was put into practice here there would still be stray dogs barking at and attacking tourists,

This is an international tourist city and should behave is such a manner.

I am not debating strongly against your suggestions, just voicing an opinion.

[Weho]

I thought it was some Buddhist thing that they couldn't simply kill or even steralize dogs here...

I have hardly ever seen dog fights. Most of the strays seem quite calm to me, but i not real interested in petting them.

I took in one sick soi dog, and after 12 inexpensive vet visits, in 6 weeks, the dog got perfectly healthy. And has turned out to be a great guard dog too. I'm no Mother Teresa but perhaps adopting some might set a good example.

[pumpuiman]

I thought it was some Buddhist thing that they couldn't simply kill or even steralize dogs here...

I have hardly ever seen dog fights. Most of the strays seem quite calm to me, but i not real interested in petting them.

I took in one sick soi dog, and after 12 inexpensive vet visits, in 6 weeks, the dog got perfectly healthy. And has turned out to be a great guard dog too. I'm no Mother Teresa but perhaps adopting some might set a good example.

Interesting post. Does anyone know if sterilisation is against Buddhist practice ?

Does anyone know if it is in fact illegal to kill soi dogs? I had read on one website about it being illegal in"some buddhist countries"......could Thailand be one?

Edited December 4, 2006 by pumpuiman

[pumpuiman]

I did read the info you posted, very informative.

If this was put into practice here there would still be stray dogs barking at and attacking tourists,

This is an international tourist city and should behave is such a manner.

I am not debating strongly against your suggestions, just voicing an opinion.

This statement is contrary to the information I have read.

[pumpuiman]

In Buddhist Bangkok, Even Stray Dogs Have Their Day

Following Euthanasia Ban, They Get Condos, Care; 'Mike Tyson' Unleashed

By CRIS PRYSTAY

Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

March 24, 2004; Page A1

BANGKOK -- Six grubby dogs slept on the steps of a Buddhist temple here, as monks inside chanted. As the last prayer was intoned, the voice of the abbot crackled over a megaphone: "OK everybody, get out there and grab some dogs!"

A dozen monks dressed in saffron robes snapped on surgical gloves, picked up nets and fanned out. They pulled dogs from under benches and cars, and plucked them from the shade thrown by statues of the Buddha. The dogs were stuffed into a cage and sprayed for ticks and fleas. Later, a veterinarian neutered some of the mutts, before setting them free to again roam Bangkok's gutters, back alleys -- and anywhere else they choose.

Dog catchers from Buenos Aires to Bangalore employ gas, poison and other means to winnow the legions of strays that inhabit most big cities in the developing world. But not in Bangkok. Buddhism calls for compassion and forbids killing any animal unnecessarily. Buddhists also believe in reincarnation -- and many Thais see dogs as people who may have misbehaved in a past life. That's why some don't feel bad about turning unwanted pups into the street to fend for themselves.

To cope with all the pooches, devout Buddhists in Bangkok are building "dog condos," sterilizing strays and even trying to teach old dogs new tricks by pressing them into police work.

Thailand's "soi" -- or alley -- dogs live in an unusual netherworld, often tossed scraps from streetside food stalls, but left alone to breed and roam. Many Thais see the city's estimated 150,000 homeless mutts as a benign urban presence, akin to squirrels. Close contact with tolerant city dwellers has produced a particularly tame breed of stray.

But the soi dogs frighten tourists and represent a health risk, officials say -- so the city council wants to get rid of them. "My priority is to protect the public," says Sompop Chatraporn, the city's veterinary public health director, who is a Buddhist. "I put my religious beliefs behind my job."

A Buddhist monk captures a stray dog

Municipal authorities used to euthanize more than 200 dogs a day. But six years ago, the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals set up shop in Bangkok and ran a campaign arguing the practice violated Buddhist principles. The city adopted a pro-life dog policy to quell public outcry. Bangkok spent $825,000 caring for street dogs last year, neutering -- then releasing -- some 42,000 strays.

Mr. Sompop says soi dogs attack dozens of people each year. According to his research, 28,000 people in Bangkok got rabies shots in 2001, the latest year for which figures are available. Many people, he concedes, ask for a shot after simply being licked by a particularly mangy dog. "We can't tell how many have been bitten and who was licked," he says.

Last year, city fathers hit on a new idea: ship dogs to the country. Bangkok's city council is now building an 80-acre, $5 million kennel in a small northern town that will house up to 8,000 dogs -- a fraction of the city's strays. "It would be much easier to do this job in any other Asian country," sighs Mr. Sompop.

China and Vietnam are also Buddhist, but because dog has long been eaten in those countries, there are fewer canine-rights crusaders there. By contrast, dog has never been part of Thai cuisine.

Kiattisak Rojnirun, a veterinarian in Bangkok, set up a nonprofit foundation three years ago to aid strays. His catch-and-release program neuters about 500 soi dogs a month, and treats hundreds more for skin diseases and fleas. He's done eye surgeries on strays who are going blind.

Canal in Bangkok, Thailand

Bangkok

Dr. Kiattisak stages regular round-ups near temples, where unwanted dogs are often dumped. Dressed in green hospital scrubs, he recently hauled a cage full of sooty dogs, rounded up by monks, into his operating room. Seven drugged dogs in recovery laid paw to shoulder, on the floor. After their operation, he tattooed their ears and tied on a red cloth collar with a tag to show they have had a rabies shot. He keeps the dogs a few weeks to recuperate, then drives them back to the alley where they were caught and lets them go.

At night, Dr. Kiattisak lights incense and kneels in front of a small altar in his home. "I pray for the dogs, and the people who help me care for them," he says. He also prays for a big donor. His work with strays costs some $17,000 a month, he says; about a third of that comes from donations, says Dr. Kiattisak, who also runs a private animal hospital, and the rest comes out of his pocket.

There are other rewards, though. "My work with dogs has made me more spiritual," Dr. Kiattisak says. He notes that one of his staff walked away from a recent head-on collision between his motorbike and a truck. "We've already got good karma coming back."

Thailand's revered king, Bhumbibol Adulyadej, adopted a stray of his own five years ago, to set an example. In 2002, he wrote an 83-page book, "The Story of Tondaeng," with 129 photos (and one X-ray), extolling the virtues of his mixed-breed mutt. Thais rushed to buy the book but not to adopt dogs.

This article answers the Buddhist/sterilisation question. Does anyone know if this "pro life policy" is law?

[wolf359]

[

Interesting post. Does anyone know if sterilisation is against Buddhist practice ?

Does anyone know if it is in fact illegal to kill soi dogs? I had read on one website about it being illegal in"some buddhist countries"......could Thailand be one?

I had one of my dogs sterilised in Pattaya by a Thai vet and he is a Buddhist, I don't know if it is illegal to kill soi dogs but I hope it is.

[tropo]

Removal or killing dogs is not the answer, as this study undertaken in India suggests. The dogs must be sterilised and allowed to remain.

There's a big difference in the conditions where those studies were undertaken and Pattaya. Pattaya is far cleaner and more sparsely populated than India. There may be some South East Asian cities that parallel conditions in India, but definitely not Pattaya. Indian cities are the dirtiest on the planet. Garbage collection in Pattaya is frequent and the place is relatively clean.

All that is required in Pattaya is the same that is required in most modern western cities. Full-time dog (animal) patrols picking up stays for 8 to 10 hours a day. You don't do this occasionally, you keep it up full time. It'll soon get the stray dog population under control. Pattaya has grown up, and needs to start behaving like a real city. It's now 30 minutes closer to the airport so it's going to get very busy. They just can't afford to have dogs running around biting all those new tourists.

Rubbish!

Yes Wilco, it's all about the RUBBISH. More rubbish, more dogs.

Pattaya cannot be compared to Indian cities.

[ZZZ]

In the end sterilisation and killing off the stray dogs is the same thing.

The difference is that killing off the strays, if done properly, will solve the problem in a few months while sterilisation will delay the solution 5-10 years.