Irrumator

What I have decided to do is to just go with it, because trying to fight the early waking just makes it worse. If I wake at say 2 or 3 am, I just get up, make a pint mug or 3 of strong tea and get on the PC. I stay on until I get tired, which is not often. I can get so much done! Catching up on emails and social media, a lot of writing and watching Netflix. I try to get back to bed after 9 and have a nap or wait until the early afternoon.. Seem to be working out OK so far and I've cut out all pre-bed alcohol too.

Yes my thoughts exactly. I could tell within 2-3 days it wasn't helping.

@Sheryl, one thing Id like to ask about as you appear to be medically qualified. I saw the shrink at Sritanya as a followup to my sleep problems and not only did she suggest I take 4 mgs of clonazepam (I thought a lot) but she also prescribed 'Mealin 30 (mianserin Hcl 30 mgs). She explained it was a TCA but with the side effect of making people very drowsy so she was prescribing it 'off-book' to see if it would help. In a few words, it didn't. I still woke at 3 am or so but felt terrible. I tried it for about 10 days but the side effects were really bad. I was like a zombie until 11 am or 12 noon, couldn't think straight,. was irritable and tetchy. When I got up I stumbled from roof to room, having to hold on to handrails and door jambs. My wife says I wasn't the same person she's know for 15 years and I felt it. I stopped after day 10 even though I know I am supposed to let it run for 2 to 3 4 weeks but I just knew I wasn't right. My gross motor control was all over the place, I was stumbling, dropping things or missed when trying to pick them up. My fine motor control was the same - couldn't tie shoelaces properly, handwriting was like a year olds, couldn't really grasp a pen etc. Any thoughts/comments/ etc? It was nasty stuff and I couldn't see me taking it for a month. I'd rather stay awake.

Great, I'll get the wife to call the sister later tonight

Been doing keto for almost 6 years and this problem only started about 4 - 6 weeks ago.

I have been doing keto and intermittent fasting for 6 years, (lost 55 kgs and kept it off) and never eat after 5.30 pm, so I doubt it's that.

I can get CBD oil through my biochemist sister in law. Might well try it. Any idea of dosage?

I can get CBD oil through my wife's biochemist sister. Might give it a shot. Thanks

My wife's family grow kratom on their farm. I've tried the odd half leaf but felt nothing. Any idea of dosage?

How about an almost 54 year old wife, a 6 years professionally trained masseuse who thinks bending my arms up my back and my legs across each other and digging her elbows in? Do you think that might work? ????

I'll look into both of those. Thanks.

Thanks. I have tried hydroxyzine, alprazolam (Xanax) and clonazepam (Rivotril) over the years but none have been really effective. I don't like taking 4 mgs Rivotril but the doc has titrated the dose up from 1 mg over some months, but it only really works for a few hours. I used to have 3 Leos up until 6 years ago but stopped the when I started keto eating. I changed to whisky Thai style as spirits have no carbs and so I started having 45 mls whisky (I have a pharmacist's measuring glass) in a 250 ml glass, topped up with ice to the tp and then add soda water to the brim. Unfortunately I think I developed a tolerance to that and I ended u needing 3 glasses like that and I felt that was too much. I stopped mainly because of the price increases (I'd been drinking 100 Pipers and that went up so I changed to Bells and now that's gone up so it's the dreaded Hong Thong now, but I don't drink it in bed as my wife complains so I have a few swigs beforehand. It helps but it's not very pleasant. I should probably stop altogether, but it's comforting to know that if I wake about 3am, I can go for a few swigs which usually gets me off again for the rest of the night. Yes yes, I know I shouldn't mix alcohol and sleeping tablets but I have never had any adverse effects, ever. To be honest, I think I have started to develop a tolerance to alcohol over the years and I don't want to get into having to drink more and more because that's a very slippery slope.

Well, I've been doing it 6 years and this problem has only cropped up in the last few weeks, so I doubt it.

I've never taken a non prescription drug in my life, such as cannabis and don't intend to start now at my age. Having said that, my wife's next younger sister is a biochemist and last year made me a tincture of CBD oil and other stuff (no idea what) to rub into my arthriticky knees. I can't say it did very much at all, but I didn't tell her so as not to hurt her feelings. However, I could ask the wife if her sister could make something up I could take and see what happens. Maybe some drops under the tongue at night? Or some capsule? I have no idea, but I'd be prepared to try for a few weeks.

The problem with that is that intensely dislike the taste of milk as a drink. Even in my morning pint mugs of strong unsugared tea (which wakens me great) I limit the amount of milk in the tea to 10 mls (measured). That's about enough milky taste that I can tolerate.

I never eat after 5.30 pm and do Keto with all the trimmings

I know it's 'a <space> lot', (no such word as 'alot') nor is it especially effective at keeping me asleep. It lasts about 3 hours or so, which fits in with the study graph I posted above when older people wake after the same length of time.

Strangely enough, last night we did just that after a long break due to a cracked radius in my right wrist and voila, I woke up at 5.45 am this morning, the latest I have woken in months! I did wake a few times due to nature calling but went straight off back to sleep. Now I need to persuade my wife that's the cure ... ????

I prefer the answers in this sleep study - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5689397/ You'll see that sleep is divided into 5 phases, and the critical time for waking is after stages 1 and II, when you enter REM sleep. That's when many people, and it seems me too, wake up - after about 180-220 minutes of sleep. Excerpt from the study - 'In the elderly, reduced homeostatic sleep pressure decreases the amount of slow‐wave sleep.16 Additionally, reduced circadian signals in the elderly result in reduced core body temperature and a phase advance of wake and sleep times. Sleep is divided into non‐rapid eye movement (NREM) and REM sleep. NREM sleep is further divided into light sleep (stages N1 and N2) and slow‐wave sleep (stage N3).6 REM sleep occurs periodically in cycles of approximately 90‐120 minutes of sleep. In polysomnographic studies, four consistent changes related to aging are observed: decreased total sleep time, sleep efficiency, and slow‐wave sleep; and increased waking after sleep onset.17 A meta‐analysis of 3577 subjects aged 5‐102 years demonstrated age‐related changes in sleep architecture (Figure 1).17 In adults, total sleep time, sleep efficiency, percentage of slow‐wave sleep, percentage of REM sleep, and REM latency all decreased with age. Sleep latency increased with age, but this change was very subtle. Only sleep efficiency continued to decrease after 60 years of age.' This is shown in the figure below, and I seem to wake after stage 1 and stage II just as the study suggests. I seem to usually wake after about 3 to 3.5 hours of study. Read the figure upwards from the bottom.

I never eat after 5.30 pm. Haven't for 6 years. Part of my winding down routine

I think I've managed to have developed a bedtime routine after 74 years thanks. The problem is that some unknown factor has recently upset that routine, all probably age-related. Now I need to find the missing link, which is why I'm here.

Thanks for that. I see they come in different dosages. I assume it would be better to start small and test it out rather than before starting on the maximum dose? Or could you suggest a recommended starting level for a 74 year old male, 65 kgs body weight?

I've heard a lot about this in America where it seems very popular. I'm not sure if it's legal or available in the UK, but I'll check. However if Lazada or Shopee has it, I'll give it a try. What sort of price for how many?

Xanax doesn't touch me. Even 4 mgs Rivotril only has me out for 3-4 hours.