jspill

1 minute ago, Adeeos said:

From the OP description,, it sounded like the IO was almost willing to let him take care of it, but just didn't trust him to return,, simplest is to have a friend bring the $,, unless it's impossible for someone in detention to have any outside contact... 

There've been reports of the IOs saying 'it's too late now', just signing the papers (in Thai) for deportation and at that point you just wait in the detention room for the next flight, nothing you can do.

I'd try to ask to fly back to Laos if I can, some other guys managed to fly to Laos instead of their home country, and it may be possible since you flew from there. It varies though.

Then come in via land border, which people with a longer visa history than you have done with no issues. 

If you're sent to Germany, fly to Malaysia and come in via land border to Hat Yai then domestic flight to BKK. 

Either way have 20k baht cash on you, although at land borders they're less likely to ask, and even if you had it today maybe it wouldn't have made a difference. The guy in the other thread had 25k, it didn't help.

58 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

A new passport won't be of any help, they can search your movements on multiple criteria, you'd need to change name and DOB too...

 

To stay and live here, you need a proper visa, on solid grounds; i.e not tourist visas or exemption, ED become fragile because it has been over (ab)used. 

 

I would NOT stay in Thailand if I wasn't married to a Thai, with two kids, so I stick to the "married" visa.

 

But clearly, the climate is "Anti-Farang" so they will more and more give visa to Farang money only, with some exception..

Or just come in via land borders

12 hours ago, Cirencester said:

So is the OP detained somewhere during this farce against his will  ??  I'd refuse that no question and leave on first available flight

You're airside in the airport you can't refuse or go anywhere. 'Detention' is a bit strong wording it's just a room with bunk beds where yes you wait for the next available flight

9 hours ago, lkv said:

And if they don't let you in at Pedang Besar and then they tell you to fly and you fly, and you're then being detained.

 

Look, I understand people here got a little scared. All I can say is: f#ck it. If it happens it happens. For whatever reason not related to too many visas.

 

Should that be the case we'll reconsider the situation at that time.

 

I'm not going to streelss myself out for the next years travelling via land borders based on "what if", trying to avoid an unfortunate event that is most likely never going to happen.

 

It's just ridiculous.

No you just go to another land border, or try the same border the next day. And we're not getting reports of denials at land borders (one exception Poipet)

It just depends what's less stressful for you, taking the scenic route over a land border, or airports, personally I don't like flying that much. 

Another denial and deportation thread today, guy had an Ed visa, had only been in thailand 13 months, anecdotally describes the IO as on a power trip. This is what I want to avoid:

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

There are plenty of other denials to be read about in other places. For no other reason than too many Tourist visas then denial of entry being used under the suspicion of working.

Still gonna be tons of people getting lucky, or getting smarter, trying new strategies, you're never going to see the back of us nomads :) And it's still a tiny % of nomads to begin with. I just want to lower my risk from tiny to near-zero.

1 hour ago, lkv said:

And then again, you yourself had no issues with endless visa exempts, based on your previous posts.

 

So if you personally know these people, and you may have spoken to them, can you share more details on why they were refused entry?

It's statistics, you can get lucky or not. 

But if you get unlucky at airports you have to spend a ton of money on a last minute flight, to home country if you're unlucky, and 700/day in detention room which you might have to sit in for hours, then you have a denied entry stamp and no idea if you're going to be able to get in next time. 

If you get unlucky at land border you just get turned around... try again next day, or a new border, or fly as a last resort. Often you don't even get a denied entry stamp. And you can come through land borders with a visa to avoid the 2 visa exempt entries per year limit. And just avoid the worst borders like Poipet. 

Seems a pretty simple choice to me? 

Most of the guys I know didn't have the 20k cash and they spent very little time out between each trip, like 3 days in Cambodia each time, mix of exempts and SETVs. I spent 2 - 3 weeks out each time, mixed up the countries, and I get a good sense for the IO in my queue, watch what he's doing and change queue if needed.

But now we read threads like this where the guy had the cash and has spent a month outside Thailand... and I know of one other guy who like OP had an METV but still got denied. I don't know this OP, it may be a troll but he did post a pic of a convincing looking door. I'd still like to see pic of denied entry stamp and his other passport stamps, with personal info edited out.

4 hours ago, lkv said:

 

The sad part about some threads is that people actually believe what's being stated in them, creating paranoia and making some want to avoid airports.

 

Let us recap.

 

There is no legal limit to how many tourist visas you can get in a certain period of time.

 

Visa exempts get flagged at 6 and people continue to come in after a talk to a supervisor. That's in the airport. At land border they are much easier to be turned around and it is all more arbitrary. Remember when some people were told at land borders....go back and fly in?

 

Also, I would not advise anybody to play with the 2 visa exempt at land borders per year rule. I'm 100% sure that it will be enforced in all situations, no matter how nice the IO is or what explanation you may have, simply because that is a published rule and nobody will bend it.

I personally know half a dozen or so of the guys reported on thaivisa to have been recently denied entry at airports. I'm not 'believing' it, I know it's happening.

Yes I know there's no legal limit, and about the 6 exempts flagging, and the land borders (that's mostly Poipet, I never use that border), I'm still in favour of land border + tourist visa right now. This recent uptick in denials at airports is anomalous. Denials with only about a year's stay, well under 6 exempts... none in fact, most of the duration of their stay on an METV.

Things might change later, Thais can't seem to hold a job for very long so if this is just a few angry IOs maybe they'll move on at some point in the near future and then airports will be better than land borders. But there's no way airports are better right now.

Paranoia isn't justified, it's still a small risk, but if it does happen it's a nightmare having to buy a last minute flight ticket somewhere, sit in the deportation room etc.,  I'd much prefer just being turned around at a land border.

5 hours ago, thaiman said:

What would happen if you got denied entry at a land border crossing such as Laos coming into Thailand?  Would you just be sent back to Laos?

Yes just sent back to Laos. From many reports you don't even get a denied entry stamp at land borders, so you can just try again the next day, try a different border, or fly as a last resort. They don't detain you or deport you elsewhere (how could they). They're a lot more relaxed I know two guys with roughly the same visa history as OP who got in fine in the last month via Laos and Malaysia land borders.

I'm going to make the most of land border entries in the current climate, and avoid airports. Even though I recently did 9 months on visa exemptions in a row, then entered after that with a tourist visa, all at airports, and all this with a 2 year overstay stamp in my current passport. And in total 7.5 years in Thailand on a mix of tourist visas / exempts / ed visa / another 1.5 year overstay on an old passport, if they'd checked... I posted pics of my passport in a thread here.

So there's no coherent policy in my opinion, it's just a small number of IOs that actively want to deny people and abuse their power to do so. Because I was fine and so were many others. But you never know, so it's probably best to use the 2 land border entries per year. Apparently it's now limited to 2 per year but we haven't heard much about that apparent restriction since it came into effect, I wouldn't be surprised if you can get away with more than 2.

If you do use airports, look at the queues to see which ones are moving quickly, which IOs are letting through guys that look like you without questions, etc. And you can google 'bkk airport fast track' for $30 a rep meets you off the plane and walks you through the fast lane 'assisting with immigration documents', that can give you the appearance of having money. Another thaivisa poster who was denied entry and deported, used that service and got back in with no issues.

On 2017-6-8 at 4:27 AM, IMA_FARANG said:

Simply acquiring a entry visa does NOT legally allow you to work on line in Thailand.

In fact working on line in Thailand is illegal and MAY be a violation of the law.

The law about working in Thailand does NOT allow you to work on line here.

However like many things in  Thailand the law is out of date, and has not considered on line working as a "Digital Blogger" or whatever you call yourself.

without a work permit, and a Thai based company hiring you as an employee, you are technically in violation of Thai labor law.

In reality, however, Thailand doe not have the capacity  to monitor  your on line business activity, and therefore they allow it.

However, it is illegal in Thailand to work 0n line in Thailand, but simply not enforced.

as an on line blogger for profit however you violate the intent at least of  Thai work law without a work permit.

So now, you know, continue at your own risk, and don't complain if you get caught and are fined or deported, as unlikely as that may be.

 

-------------------------------------------------

To borrow a slogan from another poster:

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you

 

 

It not being 'legalized' (as in officially recognised, taxed, with it's own visa status like online freelancer visas in Estonia, Germany etc. does not necessarily make it 'illegal'. 

A more realistic view is that it exists in a grey area. No armchair lawyer on an expat forum should explicitly label it either legal or illegal. It just has not been classified as work yet, it isn't on the list of jobs that Thailand says require a work permit. 

No one's ever been convicted of a crime for simply running a blog or Youtube channel the notion is ridiculous. Unless it encompasses another crime like producing porn, gambling, etc.

I think you know no one would ever be deported or see the inside of a court it would simply be a small 'fine' because the low level officer decides to consider it work and the online worker wouldn't want to wait for a court date and official ruling. Or one would simply be told ok you need to change visa status now. 

Look at expat of many years Richard Barrow he's an extremely prominent blogger. Or the learn Thai from a white guy dude, the list goes on.

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

Scam the system? You seem very angry about something. Maybe it's all that money you wasted on Thailand Elite? I've been on a work permit and non-b for most of my time in Thailand. I'm taking an extended break until my next job starts, when I'll be on a work permit and non-b again. How is that scamming the system? There are all sorts of reasons why someone might want to spend more than 6 months as a tourist here.

Ironically Thailand Elite is essentially a bribe, 500k to a private company. Does nothing for the country. Functionally no different to overstaying five years then paying that amount in tea money to clear the blacklist and get back in. Much more ethical to spend that money supporting the locals. Of course he will claim it's a drop in the bucket compared to how much he spends in daily life... but his posting manner does not exactly suggest that. Angry expats are usually poor.

17 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

So, if you have a new passport (which has a new number such as UK) somehow their records are linked and they can see the old passport history?

They'd have to check. Quite often they're in a hurry and just have a cursory flip through of your passport pages looking for your visa sticker or first empty page to stamp. And don't check your old history on the computer unless your passport is full of visas. So it definitely helps to some extent to have a fresh passport. Pick a fast moving queue at passport control.

See this post:

And 

And this thread

Try PM'ing the OP of that last link first. He said he had a contact in BKK who works with immigration police on the Malay border. 

Can't be 100% sure though as I haven't used it but perhaps someone who has will PM you, or try PMing guys in the first 2 links

You seem awfully emotionally invested in the visa status of others. I won't get into a back and forth let's not derail the thread. I suspect a previously banned member on a new handle. It was harder under a previous military government though, and there's no evidence of a systemic crackdown now. Upticks in denials are commonplace. Just carry 20k, use the fast lane service or car lane at Nong Khai. And see the many tips dotted around Thaivisa by those members that want to help others.

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Far too much there for me to breakdown. Fact is, they can and will do what they want and how they want to do it.
If you think that the days of living here on Tourist visas are about to continue, IMO, you are in for a big shock very shortly. I put a press cutting up regarding changes in August and the scrutinising of passports for those living here on the wrong visas. The idea was of course poo pooed. Seems it could very well be ramping up nicely for the August grand finale.

That press cutting was debunked several times. It referred to the Aug 2014 order on back to back visa exempts.

On 03/04/2017 at 8:30 PM, falang07 said:

BTW, is not online work considered done there where the customer's company is incorporated? At least in Europe it is so, e.g if you live in Germany and work for a company in France, the work is considered to be done in France.

Yes I agree. But that's not a very popular opinion on thaivisa because they're not too fond of under 50s like myself living in thailand on tourist visas supporting themselves working remotely for overseas companies :) Certainly there's never been any record of a 'digital nomad' being convicted of any crime what you describe so that speaks for itself.

On 01/04/2017 at 4:32 PM, Hjernestimulanz said:

where to find the fresh visa news?

Have a browse of the visa forum https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/1-thai-visas-residency-and-work-permits/

And / or join the thaivisa newsletter, any important threads will get sent to your email.

I got away with doing it for a combined 9 months in 2016 and took pics of the stamps  - 

13 hours ago, Matt199 said:

Is there any way of getting NON-ED or ED visa without attending anything ? I could do the language IF I worked with Thais or I had Thai gf, but I don't.

 

Still thinking of options. Thanks

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

With language courses, there is generally no way of avoiding classes. In a few cases, bribes to the local immigration might be possible, but could not be relied upon.

If looking for a way to game the system, and living in Chiang Mai, these guys have a special relationship with the authorities, and attending their classes is optional: http://www.cmlocals.com/combat-class-chiang-mai/

Personally, for 12 months, I would just go the tourist visa route, using it as an opportunity to visit several interesting cities in the region (Phnom Penh, Yangon, Vientiane, Ho Chi Minh City, Hong Kong ...).

Pro language Asoke has gone back to not requiring attendance. I have some friends studying there, 20k baht for a year and they were told no need to come to class. In fact they prefer it and that price is a slight discount for not attending.

8 hours ago, Doiger said:

You can only get caught if you have something to hide

Until they change the definition of what's legal and what isn't.

46 minutes ago, Essecola said:

Sure this isn't something from August 2014? Where is this actual post u refer to on Thaivisa ?

It is indeed poor journalism that mixes up news from Aug 2014 about visa exempts. 

20 hours ago, freedomnow said:

...but you might get caught in the drugs war cross-fire due to a president who hears God on a plane telling him not to swear.

2 certifiably insane presidents on the go right now.

Thailand did the same drugs war thing under thaksin in 2002-3, extrajudicial killing of thousands. It didn't affect foreigners (as long as Nana and Cowboy stay open!) and neither does what is happening in the Philippines. And at least they elected their president democratically.

2 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

Jspill I like your idea of 3 visa exempt entries with extensions. That would seem to be the most hassle-free way to do it. As I want to travel the region anyway, the trips are no extra cost. I would actually save money on visas and save time and trouble - so it seems.

Yeah in fact I did 9 months on visa exemptions in the last year. Maybe got lucky or it helped that I stayed outside thailand 2-3 weeks each time. Or both.