rabo

^after shots were fired - thee troops feared reprisals from the reds who aim was to protect themselves and maybe get some payback.

OK, then who fired the shots?

...and you have the petrol bombs and guns

Actually the arms were picked up from the fleeing troops. So what you will find is the reds have the military's left behind ordinance.

What were the troops fleeing???

^seem to be on the same side as the Army and was shot in the back.

Yes ... that's what I've heard. Not from anyone credible though. Have you actually seen it?

Which could mean he was shot while filming the army from in front of many of them, back to the reds.

Which could mean he was shot by a sniper well behind and above the army location.

It in no way conclusively says the army shot him in the back.

Which it is obvious some are trying to imply.

Could be the case, but as I said the view he was filming was like he was imbedded with the military. Sure possibility that the unknown snipers got him too, but obviously can't discount an accidental/purposeful shooting by the military either.

The Following is From REUTERS, according to the hospital director, he was shot in the chest.

Hiro Muramoto, a 43-year-old Japanese national, was shot in the chest and arrived at Klang Hospital without a pulse, hospital Director Dr Pichaya Nakwatchara said.

Still doesn't prove much, though

^seem to be on the same side as the Army and was shot in the back.

Yes ... that's what I've heard. Not from anyone credible though. Have you actually seen it?

I just googled

Japanese journalist "shot in the chest"

and

Japanese journalist "shot in the back"

The vast majority of the hits have him shot in the chest. Many of the references to "shot in the back" refer to another Japanese reporter who was killed in Burma, not Thailand.

Thus, he must have been facing .. West?

Looks like more peaceful demonstrations.

BreakingNews: Thai protest leader vows no more talks with government, says 'red shirts' will establish single new base for 'final battleground' - Reuters

When will the Red leaders be satisfied. When there are more corpses Very sad.

Cheers, Rick

I've changed my opinion. This is armed insurrection bordering on civil war. The battle lines have been drawn. The battlefield is being prepared. Both sides are readying their forces. We can only sit and watch helplessly as Thailand tears itself asunder. Let us hope for a 'miracle' and that all sides can step away from this madness before it really is too late.

You are right to have changed your opinion J. Its already too late though, its been too late for a while. Thailand is already a failed state and we have to stand on the sidelines while it renews itself - fortunately, as foreigners, if we are sensible there is little risk to us. What will emerge from the wreckage will either be a full democracy or another Burma. Personally I would bet on the former but more lives have yet to be lost and a few Thais have to find themselves persona non grata.

I agree fully with all the above, the thinking is in tune with how things work here.

I have been studying more about Seh Daeng and it's clear that Taksin's movement has a significant military wing, presumably under Seh Daeng. Taksin has reason to seek revenge from the establishment, Seh Daeng has reason to seek revenge against Anupong. As a military general Seh Daeng could well influence parts of the armed forces that are not happy with Anupong (I don't know who or what, just assuming from past experience that the army is not that unified). Now picture the next showdown with a military splinter group switching sides to join Seh Daeng's black guards. If a general believed that Taksin can win, that Seh Daeng can take the field, that Abhisit is weak, that the old elite guard is loosing its grip, I can see that general switching colors easily.

Sure hope I am spitting nonsense.

Part of the Seh Daeng story. goggling Seh Daeng, Anupong and weapons brings up most of it.

The two generals had conflicts over Seh Daeng's visit(s) to Taksin in Cambodia, Seh Daeng (Major General Kattiya Sawasdiphol,) was removed from his current duty and assigned to instruct a dancing class. He is quoted as saying he will teach only one lesson, how to throw a grenade. He was eventually dismissed. He was later implicated in a grenade attach on Anupong's office that ocurred on Jan 15 , the day after Seh Daeng was dismissed! Around January 23 Anupong ordered officers at army units nationwide to arrest Seh Daeng immediately on sight. There is a reference to his house being raided saying Seh Daeng denied any link to war weapons seized in raids on his home and the living quarters of his aid. Last Saturday Anupong's commander in the field was laser targeted and taken out with a grenade.

Sound's to me like Anupong would be aware that Seh Daeng might pose a threat.

If you believe Manager.co.th read this link (in Thai)

http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews...D=9530000051614

ภาพจุดเลเซอร์สีเขียว-แดง บริเวณศีรษะของนายทหารระดับผู้บังคับบัญชาที่สื่อต่างประเทศนำมาเผยแพร่ ที่อาจบ่งบอกถึงการฉวยโอกาสของผู้ไม่หวังดีในการสังหารนายทหาร ระหว่างการจลาจล 10 เม.ย.

So it could be an inside job, army killing army. This is the possible green laser that identify the chief head, to tell the shooter where to land the bomb.

Please, let us have some truth. Look at the video, play it a few times.

The soldier in question fires a handgun into the air (30 degree angle), his assigned job.

The soldier's handgun does not have a laser.

He is then spotted by a laser from a long distance (large beam size, shaking).

He then appears to collapse, as if hit by something or maybe startled by the laser.

End of video.

Maybe you mean this soldier was targeted by the same forces that killed the commanding officer.

Armies do not usually kill their commanding officer to make the other side look bad.

Conclusion: None, most likely not the army.

From an International news reporting agency a direct quote that their correspondents saw "army soldiers carrying and shooting high velocity rifles".

An M16, standard army issue, is a high velocity rifle at 2800 feet/second so they're correct in that every soldier were carrying high velocity rifles.

And a max range over 3500 meters.. the perfect weapon to fire live rounds over peoples heads in an urban environment.. if you are taking orders from Abhisit that is. I also noticed in the French video that the army was using both M16's and TAR-21's to fire live rounds at the redshirts.

What evidence do you have from the video that the soldiers were firing "live rounds"?

On the otherhand, rubber bullets must be fired at the protesters to have an effect,

so I assume they were rubber bullets (but I have no evidence)

What a joke

Someone using some dubious photos to scam the Red shirts ???

We can see for the first man in the black carry a M16 or Carbine with a Silencer Attached ! That means he's firing Blanks !

If you want to scam someone pls do your homework first

Me thinks you've got no idea what you are talking about.

1) What silencer?

2) How does a silencer "mean he's firing Blanks"?

Firing blanks from a silenced weapon would seem to defeat the purpose of firing blanks. That's just silly.

LOL! I couldn't stop laughing. Who on earth spends probably weeks to prepare, at least a hour just to dress up in his gear and then goes out into the street to fire blanks through a silencer! Bang!

its interesting reading over on the other paper we cannot quote on here

headed ''Slain camerman may have caught 'third hand' killers''

google it

the intimation seems to be that the cameraman may have been shot by the men in black

Though it's *all* speculation, I assumed the Japanese cameraman must have been targeted.

More speculation (admittedly far out). I have been wondering who would have taken the picture published at the top of the page? If you look at the shadow of the gun barrel on the other guy's red shirt, it is well below the gun barrel, meaning the picture was taken at very close range, probably by an expensive camera with a separate flash attachment.

How is the guy who took the picture still alive, if the picture is what it is insinuated to be?

Where is the Japanese cameraman's camera?

Questions or trying to connect the dots, nothing more.

The first dot you can connect is that there is no shadow at all on the red shirt.It is a vow of the shirt or maybe something hidden under the shirt.

Have a closer look.

What a joke

Someone using some dubious photos to scam the Red shirts ???

We can see for the first man in the black carry a M16 or Carbine with a Silencer Attached ! That means he's firing Blanks !

If you want to scam someone pls do your homework first

So you have done your homework well, you know the M16 comes in two forms a rifle and a carbine, thus *for sure* you already know there is no silencer on the gun.

To late for damage control. You guys are up khee creek.

its interesting reading over on the other paper we cannot quote on here

headed ''Slain camerman may have caught 'third hand' killers''

google it

the intimation seems to be that the cameraman may have been shot by the men in black

Though it's *all* speculation, I assumed the Japanese cameraman must have been targeted.

More speculation (admittedly far out). I have been wondering who would have taken the picture published at the top of the page? If you look at the shadow of the gun barrel on the other guy's red shirt, it is well below the gun barrel, meaning the picture was taken at very close range, probably by an expensive camera with a separate flash attachment.

How is the guy who took the picture still alive, if the picture is what it is insinuated to be?

Where is the Japanese cameraman's camera?

Questions or trying to connect the dots, nothing more.

Truly a pious and religious man.

Is that picture out in the general media?

If not, I would think long and hard about publishing it.

Fascinating post, though I agree with caution. The Nation has published a very clear image of the guy with the gun sadly with no reference or comment. Is the Nation assuming those that know who he is know who he is? They too are being cautious?

what is your prediction?

I think (predict!) the SET will be closed until Friday. By that time anything could happen.

I would also like to know though.

Can a bullet fired into the air kill someone when it comes down?

Yes. I once watch of discovey (not sure mythbuster or what). The expericent drop a small nut (nut and bolt, not nut you eat, or nut like you) from a very tall tower. The effect is deadly.

So the argument that army merely shooting into the air will not kill anyone is nonsense. If future, if army needs to shoot into the air, why don't they shoot at 90 degree, so the bullet show back at them. With helmet on, the are more likely to survive.

<>No, not normally. In the 1920's the US Army did studies on a Florida lake where they fired 30 cal. rounds into the air from a floating platform to calculate the time it took to fall back to earth (water, in this case) and estimate the terminal velocity of the rounds. The bullets return velocity was about 300 fps and the conclusion was a falling round can cause injury but is unlikely to cause leathal injury. During the tests, 2 of the 500 to 1000 rounds fired landed on the deck of their boat causing about 1/4 inch (6mm) indents in the wood. Both rounds returned to earth backend first leaving a circular indent.

During the 1992 Suchinda unrest, a middle aged woman reported to a hospital with a bullet lodged in the top of her skull, but she was otherwise OK. After reading the US Army report, I assume she was hit by bullet fired into the air.

In my humble opinion the issue regarding Khun Abhisit is one of character & integrity, not of political savviness, achievement, or other short-term outcomes.

[............Please refer to full posts on page 18,19..................]

<>I will pack up may soapbox and call it a day!

Sawasdee ka

Bravo! Your words are highly enlightening and it's hard to find anything to say in their shadow.

I'll just say, as a Westerner who has lived here for 20 years, Kkun Abhisit's character and integrity are something I have not seen before in any Thai leader. It may be tempting to think that such qualities cannot work here or that he is too fresh to make it happen. However as you said, we're all free to decide what we think and believe and I think I would like to see such a change and believe it can happen. Most people don't believe something until it happens, those that do are the ones that can make it happen. I hope Kkun Abhisit is surrounded by a few such people.

Interesting photo in the SF Chronicle:

What are they trying to hide?

Their own responsibility for this well prepared decent into violant intimidation of a nation.

I didn't mention this in the original post, but those are indeed CCTV cameras that are being systematically covered. I guess that cameras that look down on the streets are not impartial enough witnesses for some people.

The nation (website) reported yesterday afternoon that the cameras were covered just after one of the red leaders called for the destruction of BTS stations. If you look carefully you can see the cameras are pointed almost directly down (or in the sky looking for birds?) and are presumably BTS surveillance cameras.

I've been here a while and have a full wife and family package. The family recently brought the father, an aging rural (read village) doctor to Bangkok for medical treatment. While waiting at Phayathai-2, the father decided he needed to visit the restroom, which was on the second floor. Because of his age, we decided to take the lift. Later, back in the waiting room, he looked at everybody and ask with great earnestly, "Why does everyone keep going to stand in that little room, closing the doors, and then coming back out again?" Apparently he had never seen a lift in his life.

My wife asked me not to relate the part about being in the modern restroom.

would they be the same people, who tried to "assassinate" him a year ago, around songkran, in an empty car?

or those who missed sondhi with 180 bullets?

all looks like a cheap set up to make martyrs from themselves and to boost own popularity

Let see, Sondi, Mr. Taksin's arch enemy, staged his own assignation to make Mr. Taksin look bad. To make it look convincing, he has himself shot in the head with an AK47 and everyone in the car including his driver killed. Got to admit that fooled me.

I live along Jaengwhattana and can see most of the government complex including immigration. It's been very quiet and I have seen no activity through Sunday. I would guess immigation will be open tomorrow.

I recently overstayed my non-immigrant visa by over 2 months and got professional advice. If you are caught overstaying by the police or immigration police, you will likely be detained, fined, and sent out of the country. On the other hand, if you arrive at the airport and declare that you overstayed, even for two months, you simply pay a fine and get a friendly see you again soon. The whole process takes about 10 minutes and I was asked no questions. This was in Bangkok. An overstay does not affect your ability to get visas in the future but you must start the visa process from scratch. The fine though is 500 Bhat per day to a maximum of, ouch, 20,000 Bhat. Overstay, of course, is not recommended!

However, are you sure you must go overseas to get your 1-year visa?? There are 2 classes of type B visas but even the 90 day visa can be extented in country, like most other catagories of non-im visas. You might want to look at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website here, www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2492

(5) Holder of this type (B-buisness) of visa is entitled to stay in Thailand for a maximum period of 90 days. He or she may apply for an extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau and may be granted such extension for a period of one year from the date of first entry into Thailand.