rabo

Media coverage in THailand has been only of Soldiers and Multicolor deaths.

Reds and Japan has been ignored, not shown, censored, not allowed to be on TV, not talked about, kept quiet, mention it just a little bit but make it out that they killed by other Reds and MIB

Free and fair press in Thailand ? The media and the government of Thailand are showing themselves up very very badly in the eyes of the world.

This is nonsense, especially since the government along with Khunying Pornthip have investigated the Japanese camera man's death and stated clearly through the news media that he was shot by a stray bullet from an Army rifle.

I would trust the Thai media over Levelhead's media any day.

Edit:everyday.

ivowatson

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The only thing he gave them was greed.

Along with long term debt and no idea of financial responsibility. debt bondage thrived under Thaksin The results are still crippling families even now.

This is the same feedback that I get from my extensive Issan family. The family spans 3 generations and is now spilt between their home province and Bangkok, a very typical story. As I said in another post, the financial burdens created by Thaksin's love me for a buck polices ultimately comes back to those in Bangkok, and then to me as I am now the official head of family

Fortunately, the people on the government side of things do not take their advice from the simplistic bloodlusting self appointed experts of Thai Visa.

"The use of force will not end the current problems and would have many repercussions,"

- General Anupong Paojinda at a meeting of military commanders according to deputy spokesman Colonel Sirichan Ngathong.

"The best thing is to create understanding among the people. The army's job now is to take care of the people, and not allow Thais to attack each other."

- General Anupong Paojindaupong

AFP also reports that the General stated to its reporter that he aimed to end the stand-off without further bloodshed, saying the authorities "can uphold the law with no people dead or injured".

The Redshirts and the General will try to find a way to end this peacefully. If the Redshirts obtain a way to exit without a loss of face, they will have emerged with an important political victory: The end of the Abhisit government. If the General pulls this off he will rbe seen as the man that restored the military's reputation as the defender of the realm. A settlement virtually guarantees that no politician in the forseeable future would dare interfere with the military's place in Thai society. The people will not allow the institution that kept the country from civil war to be harmed.

That is what is at stake.

The people most worried now might be those in a turf warf war with the UDD and the military for access to the public trough. I anticipate that other groups will attempt to delay the settlement and to provoke the Redshirts and the military. With peace, the Reds will have cemented their core support group and the military restored its credibility. The opposing factions cannot have these two groups in strong negotiating positions.

You have overlooked the most important thing that Anupong said, that the Army will ultimately protect the monarch. Ultimately reffers to last line of defense. The Army also stated that the cause of the problems come from a "concerted effort to grab power and attack the monarchy"

Thus, any "compromise" must abandon Thaksin's main goals.

Well if the red shirts will accept a 90-day dissolution to end this chaos, then Abhisit should go for it.

Seems very reasonable

Abhisit should accept - show leadership - compromise now and save a little face - if he doesn't accept it is totally without reason and common sense.

Common sense would be to protect the Kingdom from overthrow by armed totalitarian forces.

remember this recent headline?

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/44954.cfm

''Natthawut Saikuea, leader of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), told a press conference that he believed that in the next four or five days there would be an attempt to charge that UDD protesters are connected with terrorists after the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) had shown video clips on the bloody violence.''

''Top UDD leaders will take responsibility if it is proven that they are connected with the terrorists, said Mr Natthawut''

does anyone else think that Nuttawut is trying to dilute some bad news that he knows is imminent?

why would you insert a 'we are 100% NOT guilty unless you can prove we are guilty' clause ?

and now.....

DSI says Methee 'implicated others'

By The Nation

Prominent red shirt Methee Amornwuthikul has implicated other people involved in the bloody April 10 clash with soldiers, the Department of Special Investigation said yesterday.

"He has named names," said director general Tharit Pengdit.

and now they are implicated as terrorists, with charges that carry the death penalty, now they want to negotiate?.......give me a break!

Blackman, this is your scenario, lets see where it leads to.

When criminals are caught in Thailand, they often make full confessions including crime scene re-enactments. It's well known that lying results in more severe penalties.

What they really need to do is trace the money trail back to Mr. Thaksin.

And the writer is hiding in anonymity. Hasn't even got the courage to add his or her name as the writer of this diatribe.

This is normal editorial practice for many newspapers.

Abhisit looks incompetent, Anupong looks like he is in charge. Abhisit could not broker an agreement in one month and two negotiation sessions. Anupong says no killing and everyone stops? Sounds fishy too me. Sounds like Anupong cut this deal on the side with the red shirts. Makes Abhisit look lame.

Anyway, the Democrats are out of it with dissolution either for violating campaign regulations, or through vote. It's not over yet, but people get what they want at the expense of..... THE TAXPAYERS and the DEAD!!!!!

What makes me wonder is why yesterday Anupong issued final warning, and today he is issuing no crack down orders.

Made a deal? got a payment? sudden attack of morality?

Red shirts want the elections to be finished within 90 days so that they can name Anupong's replacement and have the army in their pocket. The democrats want the election later so that they can appoint a general friendly to them. The longer the protests go, the lower the chance that the Reds can get the elections finished on time. Anupong is probably afraid that if he disperses the protests and then the Reds win the next election he might fight himself in prison. He is only acting out of self interest at this point. Is there anyone with the nation's interest ahead of their own?

After saying that he would not use force to solve the problems and that violence would not be tolerated

Anupong stated that ultimately the Army will protect the Monarchy.

The Army assessment released also stated clearly that the problems were caused by a "concerted effort to grab power and to attack the Monarchy".

Anupong has simply stated that he will do his sworn duty. Don't count on him joining in conspiracy.

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Go and check your head before posting because you have no idea what is going on right now, you don't know what makes sense and for the f. sake there is democracy already! What kind of democracy do you expect from the red shirts? Do you expect Thailand to be a republic??? Or Thailand being governed by totalitarian leaders, instead of making people equal reach they would make all people equal poor. Wake up dude, you are dreaming.

Methinks you're the one who is dreaming. 'Governed by totalitarian leaders'??? What do you think is the situation right now? Do you seriously think that Abhisit is truly the person in control? It's not without some irony that all of the stories of the UDD being funded by Thaksin seem to have disappeared. Nobody in full control of their senses would acknowledge that anymore. Ultimately there is a very large segment of the population (don't forget, PT still have more representatives in Parliament than the Democrats) whom are tired of their democratic rights being abused, and are equally tired of a very small minority of the Thai population using their influence to circumvent the democratic and judicial processes. Sure, there are extremists on both sides, but ultimately until the current Government attempted to use force, the UDD protest was (in relative terms) peaceful. Compare that to 2008 with the antics of the PAD. Did the Government at that time attempt to close down ASTV? No, they maintained the right of the media. What a contradiction with the current bunch of hypocrites.

Straight out of a young western liberal guide book, probably east coast America.

These people have been living in a benevolent Kingdom for 1000 years. They just recently were introduced to a constitutional monarchy. There culture is even older than all that. Hear it all the time "I'm Thai! Don't step on my democratic rights! My rights are guaranteed by the constitution, krup! Som Nam Naa!"

Me thinks you are stuck in your western frame of mind.

I've got this (strange) feeling now. With the Army saying no force will be used to disperse, it took all the air out of the sails of fury. Now, the Reds say they will accept 30 days and want to negotiate tonight. A huge weight feels lifted.

I think it may all be over soon -- peacefully -- anybody else feel this way?

He also said something else, possibly more important.

Anupong: The Army will (ultimately) protect the Monarchy.

According to the Army assessment report, the predicament was instigated by concerted efforts designed to grab power and overthrow the monarchy

THE NATION: US Emb has announced "town hall" mtg regarding the situation for US citizens (bring passport) on Mon, 26, 14:00 at JW Marriott

Yo, fellow Americans. What do you all think this is gonna be about? Are they gonna describe evacuation plans should things REALLY get out of hand? Anyone planning on going? I think I may drop by if conditions continue to look bad on Monday.

Don't know but thought it might be interesting. Don't expect much but might be a chance to ask questions.

I was going to call them in fact to ask about fast track visas for Thai wives, if the need arises.

Bring your hat, I'll wear my uniform.

Many Thais say

It was safer in Thailand under the last Coup

Maybe its time for the army to save the country, we know democracy does not work

Yes, I could not agree more. When the coup happened I was in the US, having been here in March and returning nin Nov. When the coup happened I emailed a friend of mine and asked if she was OK. Her response was "Honestly G, I don't know anyone who doesn't support this" and sent photos of people with the troops. When I came back in November everything was calm.

The red shirts clamor for democracy in their rhetoric but it is just rhetoric, their real goal is to bring their boss back. Everyone knows that. And I agree democracy does not work, I've seen it's failure first hand living in the US for 55 years... I think that if there were a coup we'd see scenes like those my friend sent me photos of in 2006 - children giving ice cream to the soldiers, just as the people in Silom welcomed troops the other day with food and drink and smiles.

Reminds me of the German army welcome, as they liberated the gentle people of eastern europe...

read: http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=15955366

The Economist is so obviouslt RED. Just look at their logo. There is no other colour.

The economist's article is poor indeed. Fast paced, one sided, with a touch of prejudice, full with a comparison to blacks in America. The paragraph about the Monarchy was distasteful even for me, wonder if such would be allowed in Thailand.

TAN network: INN: Civil Court grants injunction which prevents PM from using force to disperse red shirt rally

Wooohooo

And today they reversed that.

consistant then

I think the reversal was along the lines of "However, if you need too....."

Thai style, all sides got something nice, nothing changed.

The fortune that Thaksin accumulated was/is obscene, yes, but Thaksin's wealth is rather small when you compare it to the entire wealth of the old money elite ruling the country.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/23/thailands...ealth_land.html

here is thailands rich list Thaksin number 16th position.. the yellow one at the top is a clan that owns central, robinsons etc.. at least 8 times as rich as Thaksin.

probably the area the red fortress is on, or at least the shops its blocking. Meat cleavers at dawn?

If you think the people on this list arent pulling strings...

Thailand needs a system of monitoring donations, and bribes Soooooo badly. Trouble is... even the US cant seem to do it properly...

However... the UK is pretty good... the daily papers can sniff out any dodgy deals.. but then again, would Thai people have time to watch the news about such dodgy deals, between soap operas and slapstick game shows?

p.s:

number 21

Nishitha shah

Net Worth $280 million

Age 29

Marital Status Single

If you are reading this, nishita, send me a PM

Nice data, it's always good to see facts.

As far as the rating, I think it is reported wealth and does not include the amount of money frozen in thailand. It is also believed by some that he and his wife may have removed other funds that have never shown up. Rumor mill, etc.

Just asked nishita what her thoughts are, take it as you see fit.

Of course there has always been corruption in Thailand like there is in every country - here just more obvious - but to compare Thaksin with anyone before him would be the same as to compare a boy stealing a sweet in a corner shop with the Brinks Matt robbery

forgot - and he isn't in Thailand , if he was he would be in Klong Prem where he belongs

The fortune that Thaksin accumulated was/is obscene, yes, but Thaksin's wealth is rather small when you compare it to the entire wealth of the old money elite ruling the country. I'm sure these people too didn't get their money from an honest day's work.

Why were the courts so keen to nab Thaksin for his crimes? - Because he got popular vote and was upsetting the balance of power. "No, no, no!" said the old boys, "We'll start a Yellow movement and the army can't touch us."

Can you please provide any information concerning your statement that the wealthy families and businesses in Thailand did not earn their money through honest work or business? If so, what percentage was from corruption? Do you know the families and businesses in Thailand? Do you know anything about the economics of Thailand?

You often talk about the elite. I would like to know who you are talking about when you discuss them.

Are you OK with K. Thaksin killing 2500 poor Thai people?

Do you know at what rate per day these 2500 people were shot?

Two months may seem a long time ago,and a lot has changed since then.However I would be interested to learn what exactly was wrong in the way the government was running Thailand two months ago.

Nothing in my opinion (relative to Thai things), which could have been considered as threatening to the other side.

Two weeks seems a long time ago. Sigh.

The anti-monarchists want Thaksin's history to start in 2006. To even start to understand Thai constitutional matters you should start Thaksin's history with the 1997 constitution.

The anti-monarchists want Thaksin's history to start in 2006? Not sure about the term you're using there Ponbkk but you shouldn't ruse us.

And isn't it the pro government supporters who want us to believe that corruption was invented in 2006 by Thaksin and that Thaksin is the only wealthy man in Thailand?

Ponbkk, this is absolutely correct. It is my opinion that the sweeping new freedoms envisioned in the 1997 constitution led to the unbridled corruption of the Thaksin regime. Perhaps Thailand should have addressed the level of corruption in the system before introduction such a constitution.

...

Never put a politician in charge of military, because they always they put good of themselves before the good of the country

Put that the other way round: Never put a military in charge of politics, because they have no clue what democracy is, they have only learned to give orders and obey.

Democracy is about compromise, negotiating, talk, respect for a different opinion (which you don't share), all things unknown to the military.

Want proof for that? Thailand 2006 - 2007

I believe that the military should always be tightly controlled by the politicians. The toys they play with makes them believe they have the power and can do whatever they want and that's dangerous.

Never put a "military" (soldier-military Man)in charge of politics?

History tells us that some of the greatest politicians have been military men., although some have been greater than others.

Oliver Cromwell, Arthur Wellesley (Wellington), Winston Churchill, George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses Grant, Dwight Eisenhower and G.H.W.Bush.

Slightly OT. Ulysses Grant was not an example of a good president or businessman. In fact was horrid at business and drove his family into bankruptcy, which is why he had to write his memoirs. Other examples are OK.

Nothing personal.

wow this is a really "wise" statement - tax brakes are to help the economy, to help those who generate and pay taxes in the first place who create the jobs your Isaani relatives work in and earn money .... Jesus its difficult to remain polite facing such...

Tax breaks mean more export, more companies opening their doors here and employing local staff...

Abhisit is working on an improved health-care plan for the poor but even he can not do so within such a short period of time. Now of course, the reds have destroyed the economy for considerable time and damaged the country to a degree that it will take a lot longer.

Previous "old money" governments have had years to improve healthcare, but they didn't give a ****. Thaksin improved healthcare for these people. Abhisit has only made a "plan" to improve it further. The people will remain loyal to those who got the ball rolling and who actually delivered results, not to puppets on a string who say they will (might) do something, but then not do it and go back to the old ways. Plus, Abhisit's government is illegal so it's not up to him to say that he's going to improve the healthcare system or not.

Many (not all for sure) of the northeasters I know no longer

believe that Thaksin's programs really helped them in the long run. They were

short term look good programs. You can find discussion elsewhere. Some of my

own family members have echoed the same sentiment and said that when all was

said and done, Thaksin's programs eventually worsened the economic situation of

those family members still living in the country. For which, I, my wife, and

family members in Bangkok are paying the price. Many of the rural families' old

and new generations are similarly split between rural and urban existence.

From my understanding of Abhisit's economic programs, they

are economically sound and would produce long term benefits to the rural areas.

You can take your choice, but your vote, and mine, won't make much difference.

No, Ahhisit's government is not "illegal", please stop saying that unless you can present

your case based entirely and conclusively on relevant Thai law.

Sadly the TV forum is filled with too many people who have no idea about things "Thai" and who sit in Ivory Towers dictating they know everything and the Army will do this and the police that.

If you watch the link below you can see :

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1loe_us...top-201004_news

Multicolor shirts have come looking for a fight, they are throwing bottles and objects at Reds.

Police move in to move them back.

Mutlicolors attack police.

Police push them back while under attack from them.

Then you see the Mullticolors are in front of "Army" lines.

The multicolors retreat and finally run behind the army lines while chased by the police.

Army did nothing to stop them or apprehend them.

With regards to the attacks by grenades, all violence is wrong. People getting killed is sad and not right. However, if the leaders of the PAD/Yellow had not invoked the "Multicolor" protests again these deaths would have been avoided. That does not take anything away from whoever fired the grenades (very likely a third hand), but as ever, it takes two to tango.

So at blame here are :

1/ Army for letting them incite the reds.

2/ Police for letting them incite the reds.

3/ Leaders of Yellow who incited the multicolor groups.

4/ Whoever shot the grenades.

5/ Reds for being there.

6/ Elite/Democrats for all the ills they have done from the coup in 2006 culminating into where we are today.

Everyone is at fault

It is curious that in apportioning the blame, you include everyone except the entire red leadership and organization. Without talking about who pulled the triggers on the grenade launchers, let me suggest you read the following. Today's CNN "explainer". CNN often uses these simple explainers presumably to help their less informed readers. Here's the Headline, the one image, and the link.

Explainer: What are the protests in Thailand about?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/...dex.html?hpt=T1

My only point being, if you want to begin to consider blame, you need to understand the storyline, otherwise it will always be tit-for-tat

What you did?! you seem to forget the number of people in other nations that fought in the war, the war didnt even have anything to do with you other than pearl harbor and losing a couple of ill-gotten islands in the pacifci (from spanish american war), the war was fought on very little american land, the US mainly was basically a war free zone. I am not saying the US did nothing, because they did massecre innocent japanese with the atomic bomb, but i am saying that you should give others credit too. They thais fought, the french fought, the chinese fought, the english/british fought, aussies fought, soviets fought, so many other people fought in the war not only the US.

I know I'm going to be scr*wed for saying this, but is Hitler really a bad leader? He fought patriotically against the oppression of his people by the WWI allies through the Treaty of Versailles, he brought order to a country devastated by the great depression, i know he has many bad sides but I still admire his efforts as a leader to help his own to greatness

16,354,000 men & women served in the U.S. Armed Forces during WW 2. This number includes members of the Army, Army Air Corps, Navy & Marines.

As you say, they didn't fight in America so they must have done something.

Because these are NOT "facts" - they are wild speculation, at best.

All previous reports on the death of the colonel and the injuries to other two officers were very clear - they were the result of an M-79 grenade (an inaccurate weapon, as I have already commented). There was a lot of speculation about who fired it, some knowledgeable and/or informed, most simply absurd, but there were no reports that they were hit by sniper fire.

Now suddenly they were hit by "laser guided" sniper fire from ""spot and shot" teams of Reds" for motives that are "as political as they were tactical"??

What absolute and utter garbage.

Lasers are used to light up targets by the military in two main ways. Firstly, for laser guided munitions such as Cruise missiles and "smart" bombs, by a spotter on the ground for weapons fired from some distance away. Secondly to assist combat shooting at relatively short range, where there is little variation between the laser and the bullet track. While a laser designator could be used to point out an individual for a target it it could be counter-productive for a sniper team as it would not only give the target a warning that he was being targeted ("what's that little green spot on your chest?") but also identify the firer's position if seen. Outside of science-fiction there is no such thing as "laser guided" sniper fire - it is not even in the same category as the "super-power rifles" previously reported. Its simply garbage.

LASER GUIDED BULLETS, US ARMY

Here's a picture of a US Army Laser Guided Bullet Rifle. These were first fired in early 2009.

Laser scopes (un-guided bullets) have been around for a long time to "improve the accuracy of long range sniper shots".

Most important though is that lasers woudl have been useful in taking out specific targets under the conditions present that night. A close in spotter with a laser could help to identify which personnel were to be hit, either with a sniper gun or grenade.

The exact details however are not important. The identity of the 3 senior military commanders targeted and killed is sufficient to make the conclusion it was well planned and more than just a tactical strike.

Thanks for that analysis Publicus. Kinda scary, makes the outcome of all this highly uncertain.

Kinda scary is right as I was reading Shawn Crispin last night, who's a long time Asia hand in journalism, who presented much of what I related here, based on his long time of reporting here and developing sources here. We really do need to have his reportage to consider in all of this bloody mess.

Very nice and well written, and scary. This picture is strongly supported by the April 10 bombings of 3 of the giant electrical pylons that feed Bangkok from the north, in an attempt to drop the city into darkness. (I have posted details elsewhere a couple of times). One can only wonder what else might have happened if all 7 of the bombs had detonated and the red team had been free to work in darkness. The C4 explosive devices were detonated by alarm-clock timers set to go off just before Saturday's armed clashes.

Also, today it was reported that a 22,000,000 liter gas storage facility was hit with an RPG grenade.

"The Nation",huh????

did you believe everything you read about weapons of mass destruction in iraq before from the nation and fox news and whatever?????????

what makes you thinnk thai newspapers are so different??

due to the tie-in of the Nation with Thaivisa we are not permitted to quote the other major Thai English newspaper. One is thus limited to citing the Nation- which openly sides with the Yellow shirts and is a trashy newspaer by any standards- still it does include, on rare occasions guest essays from non-aligned journalists such as the article above.

Well, no. The restriction on quoting from the BP is BP's call, not the Nation's, and is probably a commercial issue more than anything else.

Don't like the Nation? Go read the Singapore Straits times.

" The United States urged both sides to seek a peaceful resolution to the weeks-long crisis, which has shut down the Thai capital's retail and hotel heartland, worsening the damage to the economy of the tourist destination."

The Americans trying to control the world again !!

KEEP OUT of Thailands affairs and put you own house in order first This is not your country

The US and Thailand are strong friends and allies, always have been.

You! Keep Out!

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say

[clip]

being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

Interestingly enough I have watched with curiosity as my staff has gone from Dyed in the wool REDS to party goers for the parades to mildly annoyed as traffic got worse and the rhetoric got worse... they are to a person now sick to death of the REDS and can't believe how stupid so many of their family members are. We have one employee that actually went to the old site and physically collected an Aunt and Uncle and put them on a bus home and told them to stay away from BKK.

[clip]

I've tried the same and received similar impressions. The rank and file have a glazed-over, zombie-like look, and after dark most of the men I encounter in the 'Red zone' are drunk. Hardly inspires confidence in either their cause or the ability of the rank and file to think for themselves.

I have read similar accounts of crowd behavior in pre WWII Germany during some of Hitler's speeches, particularly the glazed over eyes and possessed (zombie) look. Hitler took advantage of post WW-I poverty in Germany and German ignorance about the reasons behind WW-I. Thaksin is taking advantage of the rural/urban financial divide that has worsened over the last 20 years. However, Thailand and Germany are not the same and other parallels may not hold true. Traditional Thailand is not a culture of anger and hatred.

Speaking of training here is a picture from early February of a brain washing (er, political education) school in the north. (Funding courtesy Thaksin and co.)

Here is a reference to the full article, complete with black guard training and our friend Seh Daeng. It's a good read

http://blogs.straitstimes.com/2010/2/11/in...ferent-thailand