rabo

What about the people killed by the Yellows at Don Muang airport ?

Man suspected of being under cover policeman KILLED by PAD guards.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255112100004

Wrong, THE REFERENCED ARTICLE - No cause of death, no identification, could have been a PAD member.

Police revealed that the corpse was dressed similar to that of a People's Alliance for Democracy guard and also possessed its signature handkerchief. The cargo hold where the body was found is no longer in use and was being used as a lavatory during the PAD's seizure of the airport. Witnesses found the approximately 40-year-old male corpse wrapped in large white plastic bags with all of his jewelry and affects still with him, including a gold and diamond ring and a cadet academy class ring. Police suspected the body had been discarded in such a way for no less than five days.

Airport security officer Mr. Adisak Puengpaisal (อดิศักดิ์ พึ่งไพศาล) made the discovery which initially was being suspected by police to either be an PAD guard or an undercover police officer who attempted to collect intelligence from within the protesting group last week. The body has been transported for forensic studies.

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

The airports were closed only for one week before the Constitutional Court ruled to disband PM Somchai, (Thaksin's brother-in-law) and his party for illegal voter fraud in the elections. Since the Constitutional Court was already working on the case, sending the army to clear the demonstrators may not have made sense. Also, there may have been less interest on the part of the military / establishment as it was their third attempt to rid the country of Thaksin and his corruption.

I hear guns shooting in Silom. Does anyone know what's going on?

Most likely some device is being used to generate a short but loud sound.

Sound is transmitted through gases, plasma, and liquids as longitudinal waves, also called compression waves. Through solids, however, it can be transmitted as both longitudinal waves and transverse waves. Longitudinal sound waves are waves of alternating pressure deviations from the equilibrium pressure, causing local regions of compression and rarefaction, while transverse waves (in solids) are waves of alternating shear stress at right angle to the direction of propagation.

Matter in the medium is periodically displaced by a sound wave, and thus oscillates. The energy carried by the sound wave converts back and forth between the potential energy of the extra compression (in case of longitudinal waves) or lateral displacement strain (in case of transverse waves) of the matter and the kinetic energy of the oscillations of the medium.

Hope it helped.

Goodness gratious, you forgot surface acoustic phonons and Brillouin zone scattering. Must have caused some delay because the sounds were first reported yesterday.

retracted

A good sign that the authorties have at least admitted soldiers shot and killed that Japanese cameraman:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30127558.html

Investigation conducted by the Police Science Records Division confirmed the initial report that the Japanese cameraman had been caught in the crossfire and killed by a shot from the soldiers.

Good to see that the investigations are open and fair.

Quote from the article:

Meanwhile, the Cabinet yesterday appointed a new member to the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) - noted forensic scientist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand. However, authorities did not explain if the decision was made because they were preparing for a heavy toll in the upcoming crackdown on the red shirts.

This lady deserves an introduction in spite of the now famous hairdo.

Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand has spent much of her career investigating controversial forensic issues and has a reputation for willingness to oppose other authorities whenever necessary. She has a reputation as a social champion and for standing by the truth.

It's possible that she has been brought on board the CRES team to assure fairness and objectivity. I would think that K. Abhisit would have at least authorized this appointment.

Soldiers' loyalty a crucial issue in Thailand standoff

Presence of 'watermelon soldiers' – wearing green on the outside, but red in their hearts – could affect outcome of anti-government clash

[see above article]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1540030/

General Grant, you have left off the ending of the article............

Rhetoric is ratcheting up, but on the front line many are quietly hoping that family and village ties between soldiers and protesters will help the two sides avoid further bloodshed. "My nephew called and told me not to come down here. He's a Red (supporter) too, but he's a soldier and he has to do what they tell him to do," said Tana Usawong, a 50-year-old protester from north Thailand who has stayed in regular contact since the protest began with his 24-year-old nephew in the army.

"There are a lot of watermelon soldiers. If the government was smart, they would put those soldiers in front, because the people know them and would never hurt them."

Maybe they should re-consider the verdict as it gives them the opportunity to increase the amount siezed.

If they have not already dispersed the remainder of the frozen funds, perhaps they can keep them frozen and use them to compensate for current damages.

why wouldnt he try to pay AI off? If I was Ai Meaow I would do the same. try to get some sympathy like the tibetans. suppose he will be comparing himself to H.H.D.L. next.

so go ahead and put on your red shirt and get pissed. Peaceful protest. you just want democracy right?

You are still spewing nonsense. Don't assume that because you would try and pay AI off, that Thaksin would. Your position is the equivalent of saying Abhisit would also try to pay AI off. There is no evidence to support the statement. You are making a wild conjecture. Yes, I would like the protest to be peaceful and preferably come to an end asap without the loss of life, but so what? What is wrong with wanting democracy and how is it relevant to your making a wild unfounded allegation? AI would also like to see democracy for Thailand as well. Does that mean the statement from AI must be rejected. The stament from AI can be interpreted anyway a person wants. I prefer to see it as a plea for a peaceful resolution of the situation. If others want to look for hidden meanings, good for them.

"Why would he not try to pay them off" is not an accusation, rather a completely legitimate question under the circumstances.

What are those circumstances?

1. A long history of corruption and abuses of human rights.

2. He is currently using parts of his vast fortune to stir up political unrest.

3. For years he has had a campaign to influence world opinion through lies and distortions.

4. An almost unbelievable web page on AI's website that is very long and detailed but fails to

mention a single word about any of Mr. T's past record of wrong doing, and even avoids using

the word "corruption" long after his convictions and sentencing.

Is it possible that Mr. T has tried to influence AI?

Yes, sure.

Dear Amnesty International,

A big congratulations. Accurate, impartial, and honest. My faith in your organization is restored.

This is a 100% different from their webpage quoted earlier in this forum, which unbelievably ignored anything about Mr. Thaksin's past wrongdoing or his current role. In fairness to Amnesty International, that webpage was the work of a single individual, not an official statement of the organization.

Well done and welcome, Amnesty International.

What I find funny is that when Somchai Wongsawat was Prime Minister and the PAD laid siege on the government house and Suvarnabhumi airport, Abhisit called for the government to dissolve parliament and "respect the will of the Thai people".

Now it is Abhisit who is in that exact same situation. Will be dissolve parliament and "respect the will of the Thai people"?

Abhisit is not Mr. Thaksin's brother-in-law.

I guess if it were the Army's aim to darken the city and instigate violent attacks, they would have headed down to the power company and flipped a few switches. I think it's safe to say the Army doesn't need to destroy infrastructure in a manner that seeks to create generalized terror in order to accomplish their aims.

Does anyone have any articles (in English or Thai) talking about those electrical pylons? For all we know a truck could have driven into that pylon in the photo a week before the incident.

It's important to consider what would have happened had the violence escalated and if hundreds or thousands of red shirts had been killed. Somehow I don't think they would have all packed up and gone home and the international press would have said, "great job, Abhisit!"

The fact that the troops started retreating immediately after the first shots rang out betrays their orders. They didn't hold their ground or advance, or bring in tanks- they retreated and shot into the air.

Abhisit has to walk a fine line. He can't sit back and do nothing as he'll be perceived as having a lack of control and leadership, but he also can't use violence as he will lose credibility and legitimacy. Likewise the red shirts can't be openly violent as it will be counter to their claim to be a force for democracy. Their storming of the government house and 'kidnapping' came dangerously close to crossing the line.

It was reported by several news outlets here and some abroad but I can't reference the nation of bangkok post. There were two reports, the first on April 12 when the two damaged pylons were found, then more recently when a third pylon was found. There were reports of explosions being heard Saturday night April 10. There were 7 bombs placed on the pylons but 3 failed to detonate. Each was 5kg of C4 explosives triggered by alarm clock mechanisms.

Google something like "Thailand electricity pylons bomb" or power, C4 etc. You will get a lot of hits.

Here's one I found interesting if you want to see what C4 does to pylons, it's a news report from ASTV with a lot of video.

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1187

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1144

Here is something I can reference.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Thailand+:+C...ya.-a0224069474

Check the video, go buy some candles, and keep it quiet, next time they will know to use more than 5kg

And yes, Abhisit is walking a tight rope like few leaders have ever seen, hat off to him.

Wow excellent, they found an international publication that touts the Thai establishment's line!!! This in the face of article after article in all Western countries painting a much more balanced picture.

Good job.

And... I guess the same could be said of the News Clippings forum.. Hasn't exactly been overflowing with articles from the BBC, NY Times, ABC, etc, etc, etc. I wonder why.

That's my point. As soon as this article cropped up, even when it was still hearsay and had not been verified, there it was on the red scrolling banner at the top of the forum.

Funny how no opposing viewpoints receive the same treatment, and don't even get any airtime here whatsoever . I wonder why that is?

Now what was I saying about renaming "Thailand New Clippings" to "Thailand Propaganda Clippings?"

First, the BBC and CNN are widely available and are seldom quoted here simply because everyone has access to them. This is not true of the Korean media.

Secondly, because mainstream media seldom makes the effort to learn the details about events, takes up too much column space I suppose, so they opt from superficial, sound bite analysis.

Third and most relevant, is that mainstream western media, as most westerners, have great difficulty understanding what does happen in Thailand because of a complete lack of understanding of the Thai culture, which dominates every aspect of life including politics.

Any your reasoning is?????

Giving live ammunition to soldiers that face protesters armed with sticks and stones are a clear violence to human rights. Seen the reduced use of reference to heavily armed terrorists and bombs? The change to "hit in the neck by sharpened bamboo sticks and concussions due to stones"?

Another crackdown with live ammunition like Songran 2009, or 10. april 2010 will do more harm to Thailands international reputation then another year for red shirt protests or even the yellowshirt airport occupation.

Are you really blind???

How about AK 47's - grenades - petrol bombs - lit gas tanks -

I guess those soldiers died being talked to death by red shirt gibberish

BKJohn,

You need to check your work after you run your spell checker.

That was a badly formated quote from another post he was quoting. Not from BKJohn.

Now repaired, but uncredited.

So you figure Robert E. Lee is apropos to this argument?

Civil war I guess is on the menu. I would think BAD Generals ins more in point.

Maybe Gideon Pillow would be as appropriate.

[image]

Or maybe 'The Beast of New Orleans 'Benjamin Franklin Butler

Immortalized on southern chamber pots for a decade.

[image]

BKjohn, apologies for getting the wrong author, but trusting the spellchecker is a mistake I make all the time.

Mixed mental imagery probably led to the avatar. To me Lee was a person of integrity in a time of conflict. Agree that Butler, famous for stealing silverware (did I get that right), is more appropriate locally. But they could probably use a Lincoln about now.

Well, if I'm going to apply for a job in Thailand I may aswell start at the top!

....I have 1 vote...can I get a 2nd?

On a serious note, in order to disperce protesters while minimizing injury how about shooting tear gas in via hellicopter?

Unless the red shirts have RPG's it might work.

They tried teargas from a helicopter last time, one of the soldiers was shot in the leg.

"Innocent" protestors don't attack military with spears, grenades, petrol bombs and guns.

yeah, the guy with the top of his head blown off was so threatening waving that flag and footclapper, he deserved to die

No. He didn't deserve to die.

But, there is no evidence that the army shot him.

And he was in an area where the army were being attacked with grenades, bombs and firearms.

He wasn't just an "innocent" protestor.

who you think shot him? Santa Claus?

You mean the guy that brings presents from the north?

If you really want to know who, which side, planned and conspired to start the killing Saturday night on April 10, for whatever their aim, please consider the following factual information, if you can.

Precisely before the initial armed attack, which caught both protesters and security forces off guard. seven 5 kilogram plastic explosive bombs were detonated at the bottom of 3 of the massive electrical pylons that feed the city from the north. If one of the pylons had come down the whole city of Bangkok would have fallen into darkness. One can only presume the killing would have gone on much longer and we would not have the videos that are available.

Whoever started the killing also blew up the pylons.

Any theory about what is transpiring in the streets of Bangkok that cannot adequately account for this piece of factual information must be wrong.

Merry April 10 from Santa?

Giving live ammunition to soldiers that face protesters armed with sticks and stones are a clear violence to human rights. Seen the reduced use of reference to heavily armed terrorists and bombs? The change to "hit in the neck by sharpened bamboo sticks and concussions due to stones"?

Another crackdown with live ammunition like Songran 2009, or 10. april 2010 will do more harm to Thailands international reputation then another year for red shirt protests or even the yellowshirt airport occupation.

Are you really blind???

How about AK 47's - grenades - petrol bombs - lit gas tanks -

I guess those soldiers died being talked to death by red shirt gibberish

BKJohn,

You need to check your work after you run your spell checker.

For those who feel the need to rabbit on about reporting, please read the TOPIC TITLE. cheers

Feel free to discuss this one person's opinion .

I missed that, the author also labeled the entire thread as opinion, not just the post. But your image is too small to read. You should .... oh, never mind, let me do it for you..... here is a high resolution image.

Um, by the way, do you maybe have a high res version of your avatar? Just curious..

If I had read and article like this it in the China Daily or the New Light of Myanmar justifying a crack down in Tibet or Rangoon, I wouldn't have been surprised.

"Operation Payback": What kind of rhetoric is that. I presume self titled. I am sure it has no factual evidence to back it up, and I would hope that Anupong gets on the phone to get them to retract it.

Having a supposedly "respected" newspaper regurgitating nonsense like this is idiotic.

"Maybe the plan has to be refined to reduce loss of life": Ditto

The upcoming mission is inevitable now that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has given the go-ahead order by appointing the Army chief to handle the task - despite the PM's extreme reluctance to command a military crackdown on the red shirts. : A little bit of factual evidence would be nice. Maybe they are all sitting around a table somewhere and the reds pack up and go home tonight. Since when has the army not reserved the right to carry out the government's orders?

In fact is there a single proveable substantiated fact in the entire piece? In fact, it reads like an entry on Thai Visa by some of the more vitriolic contributors.

Know thy self.

Did you notice that the post is headed SIDELINE and clearly states at the bottom that this is an opinion?

Do you state that your vitriol (to borrow a word) is opinion?

Rated by journalistic standards it is not good, agreed. As the opinion of a Thai citizen prior to his country sinking into chaos, I can understand.

Long live the Thailandic ! (er, my opinion)

It's true that the publicized images of these weeks of drama – such as the ubiquitous red glow cast by the demonstrators and reflected in the windows of the Bangkok elite's luxury outlets – can seem to confirm the picture of a popular insurgency by Thailand's rural poor against its urban rich. But it is so much more interesting and complicated than that. For as the protests have continued, the links of the red protestors with Thaksin Shinawatra have become more and more irrelevant. Instead, what has emerged are new forms and actors of politics in Thailand.

(Copied over from the Amnesty International site)

Funny how many of us alleged "Thaksin apologists" have been stating this for over a month but the hysterical anti-Thaksin cheerleading group just can't seem to get it. Of course Amnesty International could be Thaksin apologists too...even though they have been quoted many times by the anti-Thaksin side when it suits them. For many it seems that calling Thaksin nasty names is about the only thing they have to write about....and as others have said over and over (myself included) Thaksin is not the real issue. I do of course recognize that name calling is much easier than trying to understand what this is really all about. After all the hoards were storming the Bastille while the aristocrats still sat around wondering what was troubling the peasants. I feel sure that the French understand this problem much better than the British, which is strange because the British have been kicked out of enough countries to know what happens when you piss off the people enough...yet they dominate this forum with the same quaint old arguments about how the poor stupid country folk really don't know what they want. Only blue blooded, properly bred people who have gone to the right schools and speak with the proper accents really know how to govern a country...and if those stupid peasants kick up too much fuss...shoot the bastards.

Sorry but that never did turn out well....look how the empire has shrunk and now the peasants are in charge in most of places you used to occupy. Queen Victoria would not be amused.

The several thousand word AI article, dated April 15, "explains" the unrest without mentioning corruption, Taksin's convictions, or any other of his wrongdoings as PM, such as media crackdowns and the deaths of 2500 Thais. One is lead to believe Taksin is just a nice guy. They do mention state sponsored violence and 800 injured without note of 230 injured soldiers. I was going to leave a comment but someone else said it better.

Dear MR Tyrell Haberkorn,

You are so far removed from the situation on the ground here in Bangkok

Thailand that your report is as erroneous as it is laughable. It makes me sick

that an otherwise respectable organization like Amnesty International should

allow your misinformed claptrap to be published under its name. You sir, are

not helping Thailand nor the world with your un-researched and irrelevant

invective. Stay home and water the garden where you can't do further harm to an

already bad situation.

PS You are a Moron

The Thai military is obviously split now.

I mean, those guys in black who shot the heck out of Thai army with rubber bullets but also shot from long range and killed with real bullets the leader, are of course active Thai military.

Their loyalty is to their people and not the current Thai regime.

They were recruited and trained by Seh Daeng aka Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol who was relieved of his duties by Anupong. They're rebels.

Maybe a few hundred are there now but who knows, maybe a thousand are there in the area.

There are tall buildings everywhere. Bombs could be already placed to meet any push into a building.

Do you really think the Thai military wants to die for the current regime at the hands of Thai people who just simply asking for a free and for once honest Thai election?

My bet is no.

Maybe so, but I believe they would be loyal to their leaders in an effort to prevent the return of Mr. Thaksin, especially as they all the country's special ops.

If I am the commander, I would:

1. Drop a dozen of their best snipers on the roof top of surrounding building via helicopters.

2. Aim and shoot both legs of all the RED leaders (not to kill them, just wound them).

3. Airlift the snipers out.

4. Repeat from step one to three, everyday, at 8am & 6pm when evryone (including the RED) will have to stand up for the national anthem.

Since the legs of the RED leaders are injured, they have to go hospital, nearest of which is the police hospital. The police can then arrest them there will they were receiving treatment.

Does anyone think this is a peaceful way to end the standoff?

Are you really a Thai woman....?

Your logic, while certainly sang froid,

is beyond what I expect from your avatar.

No this is not peaceful.

It is one way to end it, but would have been tried already if acceptable.

I do think those snipers are already on the roofs though.

I have thought about tranquilizer darts... though they are not good for long range.

One way or another your 'solution' above might be LESS bloody than what may be tried...

Got another idea. There are now only a few thousand protesters. Block all the roads in and out (done). Allow protesters out but not in. Send in loyal troops disguised in red. These troops will identify innocent people especially those with children. Give them 10,000 baht to "Go outside and buy something to help everyone, anything left send home to your family", or "Your baby needs to see a doctor". Crowd slowly shrinks. When it's down to just the hardcore and infiltrators, grab each hardcore by both arms and escort them to police headquarters. Everybody has a good laugh, Arisman et al have lost lots of face, and Thaksin's threat will no longer be credible. Abhisit wins next election and waits for the purple shirts.

Yes, I was here. I remember going down to Ratchadaemnon and counting all the bullet holes.

[clip]

Interesting recollection on life here during that period of time. Thanks for posting it!

Even though the media censorship might be less of a problem now compared to then, surely you are INCORRECT in your assertion that "there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement". 1000s of websites have been shut down! THere is NOTHING available on Thai television other than pro-govt point-of-view channels. It's the continuing censorship that really drives home the mistrust that in turn ratchets up the Hatred even more than if they allowed the channels and websites to continue.

OK, I'm willing to meet you half way on that one. It was not good to close down PTV, it was wrong and it was a serious aggravation. They should have found a better way. For sure, the government is no angel and not to be trusted either. I just think truth is a little bit more in their favor, this time. I also just asked, and was told there are about 6 to 7 television stations in Bangkok, most are Thai.

EDIT: I stand corrected, it would have been Chamlong and Suchinda in the scolding when the violence was resolved in 1992.

Is there anyone in Thailand now now who was here in May 1992 when Suchinda was ousted ?

I remember two things about that time.

One was that opinions in Bangkok on the "riots" changed dramatically for the average working Thais.

Part of that was due to the (then new) cellphones. I remember a Thai friend, whose brother was part of the police auxilary, who was very anti-protestors at the time. His opinion was changed mainly due to what he heard over his cellphone and the police radio. Thais were saying things like,"No it's not the protestors who are causing the problems, it's the police who are shooting at the protestors. Come down here and see for yourself whats happening".

No correlation with the events now is implied. It's just that in 1992 it was the middle class, cellphones, and sattelite television that changed the Thai public's opinion.

And the second thing I remember was that meeting broadcast on Thai television between Suchinda, Prem, and his Majesty. But forum rules make it very clear that I can't talk about that subject, so I won't.

Yes, I was here. I remember going down to Ratchadaemnon and counting all the bullet holes.

There were thousands of wounded admitted to hospitals and only a handful of bodies. There was almost a complete black out, TV stations went off the air, newspapers were censored, the Bangkok Post printed papers full of blank empty column space rather than re-edit. There were many wild rumors about what was coming next, but I won't post them here. Some are true.

On (I think) the 4th day the TV suddenly came on and there was a view of the two opposing generals Suchinda and Prem crawling on the floor and bowing as they received the scolding of their lives, pretty much don't ever do that again, and that was it.

Rumors of where the bodies disappeared to swirled for days. The authorizes got permission to visit the military base along Phahonyothin Road only to find a large fresh excavation project. When asked what it was the military explained they were constructing a large swimming pool. For two days prior to that, I saw a steady stream of helicopters flying into and out of that base. I lived on soi Silom at the time under the flight path.

But this time the tables are turned. The egotistical self serving PM (then Suchinda) is trying to return from overseas. Mr. T has a long dirty track record of controlling the media. Abhisit is a young, educated western thinking leader who knows the game plan is to cause unrest and make it look like 1992 to unseat the government. Thankfully there has been no media crackdown except that media guilty of incitement. Abhisit knows the more visible events are, the better for the government.

It is almost always the dark force that wants to turn out the lights and hide their activities. Although it has received little media attention, the attempt to blow up the main power line pylons feeding Bangkok last Saturday is one of the critical data points in understanding what is going on. Explosions were heard in the area late Saturday but the damage was not discovered until Monday. 35 kg of plastic explosives were used. It was not for show.

Whoever prepared to blow those pylons late Saturday is the party that started the shooting Saturday and wants to create chaos, and they don't give a hoot about life.

Tthe redshirts themselves have already deployed massive speakers playing sad songs alll night long at eardrum shattering levels. They are sleeping fine, but it's sure keeping me up at night. Any louder and the sonic vibrations would cause their heads to explode.

Thailand is already a sonic country.

IN OTHER NEWS:

General Anupong Paochinda is NOT a person to be trifled with nor one who would let himself be pushed into a corner that he didn't choose first.

Google his name yourself and read his list of "accomplishments". IF by some stroke of blind luck you can read thai; Google his thai name; อนุพงษ์ เผ่าจินดา

He is one of the most deadly serious players in recent history. He plays hard ball and he pitches very FAST.

He's definitely a person to take seriously I mean deadly serious.

There is not a single person in this country who should underestimate hime as far as his capabilities, or the "rain of fire" he could call in, all in the name of "democracy".

Frankly he scares me. ..

Probably a good idea and I will do that tomorrow am.

For a complete story, it would be worthwhile to also google Seh Daeng aka Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, and read about the relationship the two have had, it's a real blast. I hear they are going to meet in the streets in a few days.