Velocette

Bom Dia,

The Suzuki I would take to Suzuki Main Dealer on Sukhumvit +/- soi 64/1 opposite Piyarom Sports Club. The workshop manger there is very helpful. speaks English.

Have never paid what I thought was too much for anything.

What a depressing and scary scenario. VNeal suggests using a Main Dealer, he's obviously satisfied with the quality of the work there. But are Main Dealers generally a safer bet than a no name garage ? I've heard some stories that suggest otherwise.

Yes thank God, there is a shortage of wallpaper here, and not because of any inherent sense of design or good taste by the populace at large. Please don't encourage them.

There are pockets of wallpaper folk still alive I think in the mid-west of the USA and 'oop north' in the UK, "ooh missus I love a bit of flock wallpaper, they've got sum down our local Indian restaurant, looks a treat ! "

Sorry I have no advice on clutch prices, but must commend you for being green and recycling what is nearly a 30 year old car . I remember the KE70, good design and proportion. Just wondered how you managed for petrol, and what probs you may have had regarding ethanol effecting your carb and other components. Also how easy is it for you to get general spares ?

I am often tempted to buy an older car, for the design and rear wheel drive, then chicken out as I don't know a good honest mechanic in Samuprakarn, and the fear of breakdowns on a long journey.

Anyway, hope that you get a straight job done on your clutch, for not too many baht

Ryca CS-1 Suzuki S40 Cafe Conversion

by Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" on 5/19/2010

in

Ryca CS-1 Suzuki S40 Cafe Conversion

Would you be interested in a nice, brand new, lightweight, single cylinder cafe racer? You're probably thinking, why bother asking, no one is making them, but maybe you're just not looking in the right place. Former NASA engineer Casey Stevenson of Ryca Motors had the same idea, he wanted a lightweight single to cruise around L.A. but finding few options he figured he could design his own, something with a Japanese single cylinder engine and a sort of modern cafe style. Then he saw the Suzuki the little belt drive cruiser, but he didn't see cruiser, he saw something else hidden right there, in plain sight.

Ryca CS-1 Suzuki S40 Cafe Conversion

The S40, previously called the Savage, has been around for over 20 years but you can still buy them new. His idea was to transform the Suzuki with his own custom made parts and accessories, creating a kit in the process enabling anyone with basic tools to build their own urban thumper. The CS-1 features a 650cc single with 5 speeds, good looks and up to 60 mpg.

Mon, 31 January, 2011 12:21:54 [ No Subject ]

Ron Wood Rotax Flat Track Motorcycles

by Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" on 6/7/2006

Some of you may look at the RR and get all weak in the knees, wondering how you can sell your first born to buy that street legal racer, but some of us look at bikes a little differently. Ron Wood builds flat track motorcycles designed to race on rutted and rippled dirt tracks at very high speeds. Ron also builds what, to my mind, is one of the simplest, cleanest and most strikingly beautiful motorcycles anywhere. Unfortunately, what Ron doesn't do is build them for the street.

There is at least one example I found in an old issue of Motorcyclist of a street legal Ron Wood flat tracker, it was a one off built by Dale Lineaweaver of Lineaweaver Racing. It was based on the twinshock frame and looks just perfect. The frame weighs 21 pounds! The entire bike weighs in wet at 251 pounds! The 600cc Rotax single cylinder engine, a specialty of Ron Wood is set up for bump starts and when you consider the race tuned Rotax in a 251 pound motorcycle, ... sign me up!!

That would be illegal and in the case of an extension of stay based on marriage very, very difficult as they are approved by a committee in Bangkok.

That's interesting Mario, I wasn''t aware that kind of visa needs a Bangkok committee approval .

My 'fictitious' tale revolves around someone married to a Thai lady, and here for over 7 years. Every year withought fail 400 was deposited in the bank and visa was granted. One year however, bank had deducted a small sum so he had only 380 in his account. They told him and his wife, you have insufficient funds for extension of stay based on marriage . . . . . .however

They suggested he apply instead for 'Retirement' visa, and in order to help him they would supply both the bank account, and the 800 Baht . . . . .I believe the fee for this service was perhaps 10,000, certainly not more 20,000.

Perhaps I should write Thai soaps, as I have such a vivid imagination, how else could I deam up such fantasies ?

Some Immigration departments, or should I say 'Officers', are willing to 'negotiate' terms, in order for you to get your visa. It would appear that you have not been offered such an arrangement.

I'm presuming that your Thai wife accompanied you to Immigration on your last visit, I'm surprised that they didn't suggest an alternative to her. Did you see a senior officer there, or someone of lower rank ?

I believe that there are solicitors who can also facilitate such arrangements, but then of course, it is more expensive as you are obliged to pay the solicitor as well as Immigration.

Of course all the above is merely 'hear say' . . . . . . . .

One factor is the teachers (not all of course) who brainwash and encourage these kids into these actions for the glory of their school.

My understanding is that this 'factor' is well known, and the teachers concerned are well known to school principals, the police., etc, but there is never any action taken.

Yes indeed, my Thai friends assure me that there is a long tradition of 'Teacher' support for this mindless violence, staggeringly unbelivable, I know.

A teacher was stopped driving pupils in his pick up, the police found guns and swords . . . . . what action was taken, no one can recall.

Hi Amycat,

You say that using the stickshift is a burden for you, I would suggest that getting an automatic would remove a great deal of that stress, and leave you more relaxed to focus on observation and driving. If you have any doubts about the benefits of an auto, you could always hire one.

Now we are talking!, I learnt to drive in a Ford Consul 375, big bench seat in the front plus a column change gear lever, 3 forward gears, one rear. - like a H on its side!

Also our family had a Vauxhall Victor estate which had a front bench seat, loved driving that motor!

I remember the 375 was the step up for the guy who sold his Triumph Bonneville.

Or Velocette

Ford Consul 375

Not for sale - it has been sold via a Car and Classic Free Ad

AJC Cars Articles Blogs Videos Photo Galleries Gas Prices ajccars.com

ATLANTA CAR NEWS

Ga. farm machine salesman turns gas vehicles into efficient diesel rides

By RICK MINTER

For The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Saturday, September 06, 2008

BYRON — America's farming community has long been known for its ingenuity, and Gary Brown is a perfect example.

Brown sells used farm equipment for a living, but lately most of his time and energy have been consumed by trying to perfect his idea of repowering pickup trucks and cars with diesel engines salvaged from farm equipment such as combines, sprayers and self-propelled mowers.

Enlarge this image

Jason Getz/[email protected]

The Browns have a business that sells farm equipment and has a side venture of taking tractor diesel engines and putting them into pickup trucks to increase their fuel economy.

Enlarge this image

Jason Getz/Staff

Gary Brown stops by a nearby gas station to show Charles Coggin, of Fayetteville, his converted truck in Warner Robins. Brown put a Perkins four cylinder diesel engine from a Massey Ferguson Tractor into this 1995 Ford F150.

]

Working with several of his mechanic friends, he's successfully converted several pickups, trucks that now get 40 to 50 miles per gallon with no noticeable loss of performance.

Their venture is called Shade Tree Conversions, and it's an appropriate name because most of their work

really is done under the umbrella of giant oak and pine trees.

For Brown and his crew, it's all about finding a way for the small farmers and working people of America to cope with high gasoline prices.

Brown had toyed with the idea for some time, but about three years ago, an encounter with a woman at a local gas station convinced him that the time was right to pursue his dream.

The woman's lengthy commute from her home in Reynolds to her job in Macon was consuming most of her disposable income. Child care got most of the rest.

"Tears were streaming down her face," Brown said. "She was barely making anything. I came home and told my wife, 'Let's do it.' "

Brenda Brown was an enthusiastic supporter from the get-go.

"I've got faith in him," she said. "He comes up with good ideas."

The concept of powering pickups with farm diesel engines makes sense to anyone familiar with the three- and four-cylinder diesels found in smaller tractors and other equipment.

They're famously fuel-efficient, and what they lack in horsepower is more than made up for with torque.

"I was raised on a farm," Brown said. "You can fill up a gasoline burner and it'll run out about 2 or 3 in the afternoon, but you can run a diesel the same size for two or three days."

So Brown and his buddies set about replacing the gas-burning engine in a 1995 Ford F-150 pickup with a four-cylinder Ford diesel.

Throughout the process, further motivation came from the naysayers who were following his progress.

"When people would say it wouldn't work, that would make me work even harder to show them we could do it," he said.

Like many other shade tree mechanics, Brown and his crew have to be resourceful. They buy as few parts as possible — and shop for bargains at auctions for those they do.

A simple electric vacuum pump solved the problems associated with operating the power brakes and heater controls. Other adapters were fabricated from everyday items.

"We've used parts from Lowe's, the hardware store and the lawnmower shop," Brown said, adding that the most recently completed conversion cost just $5,400 including the purchase of an older-model truck and diesel engine.

Today, there are about six completed vehicles on the road, and Brown's focus has shifted to spreading the word about his conversions.

He's written a "how to" manual, complete with a list of parts suppliers, that he sells for $50 on his Web site,

www.shadetreeconversions.com.

Jimmy McLeod, who has worked with Brown on the conversions, points out that any skilled mechanic, especially one used to building street rods, can easily install a farm diesel engine in a car or truck.

"It's just common-sense, everyday stuff," McLeod said. "But there's a lot of hard work involved."

The converted vehicles tend to be a little noisier, and the normal vibration of the diesel is evident, but the trucks are plenty peppy on the road.

Brown said he's trying to figure out a way to have the necessary adapters manufactured in large quantities so conversions will be easier for the masses.

"What we really need is an investor," he said. "There are a million families out there that could use one of these vehicles."

And despite the lack of profits to date, he vows to press on until the conversions are commonplace.

"If Detroit won't do it, we'll just have to do it ourselves," he said.

something they don't have to do for the plebs who buy the likes of Jazzs and Civics.

pleb 350 up, 98 downbuy pleb mugs, tshirts and magnetsActually defined as a member of a despised social class, a commoner, a member of the plebs of ancient Rome. Also low-born, undisinguished, vulgar, and my personal favourite: vulgar-looking.

Other words with similar meaning: Scrut, Townie, Kappa-Slapper, Rude-Boi, Scum, Greb, Scav, &c.What's red and orange and looks good on Plebs? ... Fire!share this

Mmmm, depending on your intended interpretation of 'Pleb' I could say . . .. . ..

Well I never, such anadulterated snobbery, such poppy cock, such insecure rantings, the price of a gentlemans 'carriage' or lack of one, has simply no bearing whatsover on his social standing, or postion, merely how much he chooses, or can afford to spend. There are many wealthy Plebeians, farang and Thai who drive posh jam jars, and dress them like a tarts handbag, and why not, there is no such thing as bad taste, only good taste and no taste.

I surmise that Vigo owners must be plebs also as they are in a similar price range

However if it's the original meaning . . .

We could let cheeky monkey off the hook

and its a daihatsu with mitsu badgeneering

Are all the 'new' old shape Pajero's re badged ?

1.1 baby @ 450 - 525,000 baht

1.8 mid size @ 700 - 800,000 baht

3.8 V6 large @ 2.9 - 3.2 million baht [shogun]

All brand new 2010 models + here in Thailand... One importer not far from the South Bus Terminal has all 3 + SWB & LWB of the mid size and large size

Martin Keighley

Valuations expert,

What Car? Used Car Price Guide The Pinin is remarkable in many ways. First, it's a small 4x4, so it has very few direct rivals; second, it has genuine off-road ability, and deserves its membership of the Shogun family, all talented off-roaders.

The trouble is that, for both of those reasons, there's little to recommend about the car, unless you particularly like its style. It's crude on-road, with a choppy ride, too much body roll in bends, poor refinement and steering that's slow and devoid of feel. If you plan to spend most of your time on Tarmac, you'll be much better off with a Toyota RAV4.

On top of that, the Pinin's small size also means it's cramped. In the three-door model, in particular, legroom and boot space are poor, but the front seats are short of support, too. The longer five-door has a little more practicality.

Owners review . . . .

Take care not to buy just before an expensive service. Cambelt change is in the hundreds. Luckily it was done just before I got it. The previous owner had also forked out for high quality new tyres and manufacturers exhaust at huge expense. Also spark plugs cost £250 to change! (you can't easily do this at home - which is why I won't bother until it really needs it; regardless of what the service schedule says). In summary, despite it's shortcomings it's strangely satisfying to own and drive. Nice and tall for good visability. Tough and workmanlike. Soft roader it ain't.

Looks good in your pics, and price compares favourably with the usual choices. Disappointingly it gets poor reviews for general on road use ( which the Daihatsu also suffers from ) I think that this alone would put it out of the running for most people. Which is a shame, as does look quite funky and useful.

And servicing expensive in UK, no surprises there, but 250 for new plugs takes the biscuit, where are they, under the pistons ?

No one like Merc's then or the vid not open.!!

Brilliant cars! Have a 1977 300D, extremely reliable and cheap parts.

Lucky old you . . . .a handsome looking car, over thirty years old. Reliable I can believe, but surely parts for such an old car must be very difficult to source, and as for being cheap, why would they be cheap, I thought scarcity would push the price up, not so ?

BMW fended off the competition, including Honda, to take their place at the top of the Fleet News reliability survey as the most reliable company car manufacturer.

Fleet News is a sister publication of the well respected car guide, Parker's, and the annual survey covers 840,000 cars from 50 of the biggest UK contract hire companies.

Manufacturers were graded by counting the number of vehicles on a fleet per 1,000 that broke down.

BMW received the same points as Honda yet more companies voted for BMW as first placed manufacturer.

Most reliable car manufacturers: 1. BMW 2. Honda 3. Audi 4. Toyota 5. Volkswagen 6. Mercedes-Benz 7. Ford 8. Mazda 9. Nissan 10. Skoda

Location: New Jersey Join Date: Dec 2009Posts: 9 Mein auto: X5View My GarageBMW's The Predicted Reliability is Horrible and Significantly Below The Competition According to Consumer Reports Best Cars, SUVs and Trucks for 2010, most BMWs were ranked among the least reliable in just about every class and category. The predicted reliability is horrible and significantly below the competition. For instance, major problems with engine, cooling, transmission, and drive system have been reported and compared to other manufactures. There is a reason why BMW offers free maintenance for the first 50K or first four years of ownership, and pushes the extended warranty. Imagine if it had a poor warranty offering? Who in their right mind would buy a new BMW.<BR itxtvisited="1"><BR itxtvisited="1">What happened to BMW?<BR itxtvisited="1"><BR itxtvisited="1">It seems that BMW has lost their goal of manufacturing sound and reliable cars. As a BMW owner, this is extremely disappointing. I love BMW, but I will not buy another BMW unless the company turns things around. Furthermore, the X5 is ranked among the lowest in its class and ranked dead last or #17 in the US News Rankings of Automobiles (). Could this be because the X series is manufactured in the USA. It's not truly German.<BR itxtvisited="1"><BR itxtvisited="1">What are your thoughts and theories about why BMW is loosing their edge in the market. It seems that they are joining the American cars.

Strange how there is so much contradictory evidence about BMW reliability . . . . . Their big bikes also have serious probs with reliability (just google and it's easy to find many disillusioned and bitter owners ) yet there are some who cover enormous miles quite happily, or so they say, is it the love affair with the status symbol and machine that blinds them, are they in denial ?

Actually Yamaha have been using ALL wheel drive (front and rear) on some of their off road bikes since about 2003. KTM and others are doing their Rn'D with similar systems. They don't need massive power going to the front wheel, just enough to stop the snow plough effect, and/or stop the front from sliding out.

Yes in diddly deedy, or perhaps even more of a resemblance to the Messerschitt (although that was a 3 wheeler, while the Bubble had 4 )

I remember seeing both of these in London. The British offering at that time (well 49-66 thank u Wiki )) was that sad looking 3 wheel Bond car, with the two stroke Villiers engine, foolishly designed with only one wheel at the front "roll over beethoven" .

Whereas in a bygone era the Brits produced a really hot and sexy looking 3 Wheeler, with more intelligently, two wheels in the front.

I had enclosed spiffing pics of all these but keep getting YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT IMAGE EXTENSION, which is tedious, as your pics of the VW and the later post are good quality.

I think the Jap V twin was the norm. I remember seeing a few of these around, they always got the blood pumping just to see and hear them

That's not a Golf it's a Gol, it's a significantly lesser model produced as an entry level car exclusively in Brazil which should give you some sense of the market. Check your information before posting inaccurate facts..

Merely a typo . . . .but your quite right, I should check my spelling before posting. However, it's reassuring to know that there is is always someone as charming as yourself to point out any inaccuracies.

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Geely scores no stars in crash test

A four-door family saloon made in China has been subjected to a series of crash tests and scored a horrifying zero stars for adult occupant protection.

The model in question is the Geely CK 1 1.3 but is not sold in the UK.

The result was part of a first series of tests by newly formed Latin NCAP (New Car Assessment Programmes), the first ever independent crash testing programme for Latin American and the Caribbean. Nine cars were tested initially, following guidelines laid down by the other global NCAP organisations, including Euro NCAP.

Geely's saloon was the only car tested to achieve a terrifying zero-star rating. Latin NCAP summarised the findings: "Protection for the driver poor for most body regions. Significant collapse of the body shell during test."

The photographs clearly show how badly damaged the car is during the crash tests and how much intrusion there is into the passenger space.

Three of the tested cars achieved an equally poor one-star result. None of these models were fitted with airbags, as it's possible to buy them without in some markets.

None of the nine cars tested are sold in the UK in the same format.

Geely is likely to improve on this result considerably over the coming years, as it now owns Volvo Cars, which has an enviable reputation for safety.

Below is a full list of the results:

Geely CK 1 1.3 (No airbags) 0/5

Fiat Palio ELX 1.4 (No airbags) 1/5

VW Gol Trend 1.6 (No airbags) 1/5

Peugeot 207 Compact 5p 1.4 (No airbags) 1/5

Peugeot 207 Compact 5p 1.4 (With airbags) 2/5

Fiat Palio ELX 1.4 (With airbags) 3/5

VW Gol Trend 1.6 (With airbags) 3/5

Chevrolet Meriva GL Plus (With airbags) 3/5

Toyota Corolla XEI (With airbags) 4/5

Why Front-Wheel Drive Sucks

And why rear-wheel drive is coming back.

By Mickey KausUpdated Friday, April 11, 2003, at 7:06 AM ETFriday, April 11, 2003

Car/sex metaphors are unavoidable, so let's get right to today's: Front-wheel drive cars are like bad sex. Rear-wheel drive cars are like good sex.

Let me explain!

Sometime in the early 1980s, I asked my friend Paul why he drove a crass Chevy Camaro. He said he liked the "balance" of a rear-wheel drive car. I nodded but secretly sneered at him. Everyone knew that front-wheel drive cars were the efficient, sophisticated wave of the future. Audis were front-wheel drive. Saabs were front-drive. GM, Ford, and Chrysler were about to embark on a massive shift to front-drive, resulting in the current Detroit product lineup, in which even the venerable Caddy DeVille is a front-drive car.

The advantages of front-wheel drive (FWD) seem self evident: By avoiding the need for a driveshaft connecting the engine in front with the rear wheels, front-drive cars save space. The entire drivetrain can be packed into a neat compartment in the front, leaving the rest of the car's volume for passengers and cargo. Plus, front-drive cars have better traction in slippery conditions (in part because the weight of the engine is on top of the wheels that are providing the power).

I should have realized the grim truth decades ago when I borrowed a friend's Audi 100 –- the first front-drive car I'd ever driven -- and took it out on Sunset Boulevard. In one of the curves leaving Beverly Hills, near the pink house that used to be owned by Jayne Mansfield, I mashed the throttle, expecting the satisfying "lock in" effect I got in my old rear-drive Volvo – the nose turning in, the car seeming to stop slipping, tightening its grip on the road even as it went around the corner faster. But that's not what happened. What happened is the front tires went all gooey and the car started to head for the living room of a nearby mansion. Only panicked braking calmed things down.

Naturally, my brain did what the human brain tends to do with a bit of aberrant data: I ignored it. All during the '80s and '90s the car magazines assured me, seemingly continually, that in sophisticated front-drive designs you couldn't even tell which set of tires was providing the power. Weren't front-drive Hondas the hippest cars around? Wasn't even Volvo switching, belatedly, to front drive? I also blamed the victim! I must just be a lousy or unsophisticated driver, I figured.

Then, a bit over a year ago, I conducted an abortive test drive of five convertibles. The idea was to sample cars that had at least a semblance of a rear seat. The entrants were Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro, VW Cabriolet, Chrysler Sebring, and Toyota Solara. And that was the order of finishing (though the test was interrupted by 9/11 before I could drive a final production version of the Toyota). None of the cars was very

good, you give up a lot in chassis stability when you chop off the roof, I discovered. But the old, junky, rear-drive Ford and Chevy pony cars were by far the most enjoyable – they rattled and guzzled, but at least they were a blast to drive around corners. The other three cars, all front-drive, were simply pleasant forms of transportation.

Why are rear-drive cars more fun? Every enthusiast may know the answer, but I didn't. So I called up a helpful GM suspension expert, Vehicle Chief Engineer Ed Zellner. There are, I learned, five basic reasons:

1) "Balance": The car rides on four patches of rubber, each about as big as your hand. An ideal car would distribute its weight evenly, so each tire had to bear the same load, and none would give way earlier than all the others. The ideal weight distribution, then, would be split about 50/50 between front and rear (actually, 48/52 to help with forward pitch during braking). "A rear-drive car can typically approach that," says Zellner. Engineers can move the front wheels forward, so that the engine – which doesn't have to be connected to those wheels -- sits behind the front axle. Meanwhile, the driveshaft and rear differential (necessary to send power to the rear tires) add weight in the rear. Front-drive cars, which must connect the engine and transmission to the front axle, typically have their engines mounted way forward and can't do much better than a 60/40 front/rear weight distribution.

2) Center of Gravity: This is the point the car wants to "rotate around" in a turn. On a rear-drive car, it's "about where the driver sits," says Zellner. In a turn, in other words, the car seems to be rotating around you – you're at the center. It's a natural pleasant effect, suggesting you're in control, the way you're in control when you're walking or running around a corner and your weight is centered inside you. (Analogy No. 2: It's like wearing stereo headphones and having the sound centered between your ears!) A front-drive car, in contrast, with its massive front weight bias, wants to rotate around a point in front of the driver. So in a corner, the driver isn't just rotating around his spine. He's moving sideways, as if he were a tether ball on the end of a rope, or Linus being dragged when Snoopy gets hold of his blanket. Not such a pleasant feeling, or a feeling that gives you a sense of natural control.

pleasant forms of transportation.

3) "Torque Steer": One of the most annoying habits of many powerful front-drive cars is that they don't go straight when you step on the accelerator! Instead, they pull to one side, requiring you to steer in the other direction to compensate, like on a dam_n boat. This "torque steer" usually happens because the drive shafts that connect the engine to the front wheels aren't the same length. Under power, the shafts wind up like springs. The longer shaft -- typically on the right -- winds up a bit more, while the shorter left shaft winds up less and transmits its power to the ground more quickly, which has the effect of pulling the car to the left. (This winding-up phenomenon occurs the moment you step on the pedal. After that, the wind-up relaxes, but "torque steer" can still be produced by the angles of the joints in the drive axles as the whole drivetrain twists on its rubber mounts.)

Engineers try various strategies to control this veering tendency, but even designing shafts of equal length (as in all Cadillacs) doesn't completely solve the problem because the engine still twists a bit in its mounts and alters the angles of the drive shafts. True, some manufacturers -- Audi, for example -- are said to do a particularly good job of repressing torque steer . But even a top-rank company such as Nissan has problems -- its otherwise appealing new front-drive Maxima is said to be plagued by big-time, uninhibited torque steer. Rear-drive cars, meanwhile, don't really have a torque-steer problem that needs repressing. Their power goes to the rear through one driveshaft to a center differential that can a) have equal-length shafts coming out from it and be more firmly mounted.

4) Weight Shift: Suppose you just want to go in a straight line. What's the best way to get traction? Answer: Have as much weight over the driving wheels as possible. Front-drive cars start with an advantage -- but when any car accelerates, the front end tips up, and the rear end squats down. This transfers weight to the rear wheels -- away from the driving wheels in a FWD car but toward the driving wheels in a rear-drive car, where it adds to available traction. In effect, the laws of physics conspire to give RWD cars a bit more grip where they need it when they need it. (This salutary effect is more than canceled out in slippery, wet conditions, where you aren't going to stomp on the accelerator.

Then, FWD cars have the edge, in part, because they start out with so much more of their weight over both the driving and the turning wheels. Also, it's simply more stable to pull a heavy wheeled object than to push it -- as any hotel bellhop steering a loaded luggage cart knows. In snow, FWD cars have a third advantage in that they pull the car through the path the front tires create, instead of turning the front tires into mini-snowplows.)

5) "Oversteer" and the Semi-Orgasmic Lock-In Effect: In a rear-drive car, there's a division of labor -- the front tires basically steer the car, and the rear tires push the car down the road. In a FWD car, the front tires do all the work – both steering and applying the power to the road – while the rears are largely along for the ride. That, it turns out, is asking a lot of the front tires. Since the driving wheels tend to lose traction first, the front tires of front-drive cars invariably start slipping in a corner before the lightly loaded rear tires do -- a phenomenon known as "understeer." If you go too fast into a curve -- I mean really too fast -- the car will plow off the road front end first. In rear-drive cars, the rear wheels tend to lose traction first, and the rear of the car threatens to swing around and pass the front end -- "oversteer." If you go too fast into a corner in an oversteering car, the car will tend to spin and fly off the road rear end first.

What's the best way to fly off the road? Safety types prefer frontwards -- understeer. Why? To control an oversteering skid, where the rear wheels are heading for the weeds, you have to both slow down and counterintuitively turn the wheel in the opposite of the direction you're turning. In a front-drive car, with the front wheels slipping, you slow down and keep turning the way you'd been turning to get around the corner in the first place -- a more natural maneuver, since you're pointing the car in the direction you want to go. This is why, for safety reasons, even rear-drive cars sold to average consumers tend to have their springs and other suspension bits set up to make them understeer -- to make the front tires slip first, despite the car's innate oversteering tendency. Only by applying lots of power in a corner can you actually break the rear end of a bread-and-butter rear-drive car like the Mustang loose -- a maneuver favored by sports car freaks, but one you try at your own peril.

Big American manufacturers (all heavily invested in front drive) like to say that for 99 percent of drivers, driving at normal speeds, FWD's inherent understeer and better traction in the wet makes it preferable -- both safer and easier to drive quickly. It's only the 1 percent of speed freaks who enjoy breaking the rear end loose and then catching it with a bit of "reverse lock." Here's where I emphatically dissent.

It's pretty clear to me, after driving hundreds of different vehicles over several decades, that rear drive offers a big aesthetic advantage to ordinary drivers at ordinary speeds in ordinary conditions. Why? The lock-in effect I mentioned earlier. Suppose you go into a corner in a rear-drive car at a reasonable, safe, legal speed. Nothing's about to skid. But you can still feel the front end starting to plow wide a bit. What to do? Step on the gas! Don't stomp on it -- but add a bit of power, and a miraculous thing happens. The front end swings back in, the car tightens its line. Cornering traction seems to increase. And the car feels locked into a groove, balanced between the motive power from the rear and the turning power in the front.

You don't have to be a race driver to feel this. You can be a defensive driver and feel it. You can be driving a 1973 Ford Maverick with leaking shocks and you'll feel it. Accountants feel it on the way to the office and housewives feel it on the way to the Safeway. Even Ralph Nader probably feels it. It's a good part of what makes driving a car a sensual act. (What's happening, technically? None of the tires is at its limit of adhesion. But the added speed is making the front tires --which [since they are undriven] have plenty of surplus traction -- apply more force to the road surface to change direction. Meanwhile, the rear of the car is shifting outward, ever so slightly -- not a Bullitt-style power slide, but a subtle attitude adjustment that cancels the plowing effect. The power "helps you through the corner," as Zellner puts it.)

This doesn't happen in a front-drive car. The best an ordinary driver can hope for in a FWD car is that it "corners as if on rails" -- no slippage at all. No plowing -- but also no semi-orgasmic "lock in." More typically, if you hit the accelerator in a fast corner, things get mushy up front (as they did that evening near Jayne Mansfield's house). The lesson the FWD car seems to be teaching is: Try to go faster, and you're punished. Front-drive cars are Puritans! In a rear-drive car, you hit the accelerator and things get better! Rear-drive cars are hedonists. (This is assuming you don't hit the accelerator too hard.)

I'm not saying there aren't sophisticated techniques that allow FWD cars to do better. A recent issue of Grassroots Motorsports tested a humble FWD Acura RSX against a classy rear-drive BMW. The Acura actually turned laps a bit more quickly. How'd that happen? The Grassroots people realized that by stepping on the brake hard enough on entering a turn, the rear of the Acura could be made to swing wide, canceling out its inherent understeer. (This is the same effect you get by stepping on the gas in a rear-drive car.) But normal drivers aren't going to mash the brakes and go sliding through turns like a rally champion. Nor does braking to achieve "lock-in" seem as satisfying as accelerating to achieve lock in. I suppose I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it -- but I'm not going to try it! That's the point. Housewives heading to the Safeway aren't going to try it either. The joys of rear-drive are accessible to them -- it's the joys of FWD that are reserved for the skilled Grassroots Motorsport elite.

Explaining SUVs: Now that the goo-goo bien pensant scales have fallen from my eyes, and I recognize the front-drive-for-the-masses movement as the Carter-era energy crisis con it is, several previously inexplicable things become explicable. Why did truck-based SUVs suddenly become popular just as Detroit shifted to front-wheel drive for its passenger cars? Was it (as anti-SUV activists claim) because the SUVs were exempt from various safety and economy standards -- or because the SUVs still had rear-wheel drive, with all its subtle satisfactions? Why do all BMWs (and virtually all Mercedes-Benzes) persist in using rear-wheel drive? Why do my friends, who aren't fast drivers, say that BMWs just feel better?

It's also now clear to me why Acura is in trouble (it only offers FWD sedans), why GM is busy working on a new "Tubular" rear-drive chassis, why the Infiniti G-35 and Lexus IS-300 (both rear drive) are so popular, and why the RWD Cadillac CTS and Lincoln LS are so refreshing to drive.

I'm not saying that any rear-wheel-drive car is better than any front-wheel-drive car, the way, say, any car with plain black tires looks better than any car with whitewalls. But it's close! Front-drive cars can be fun. Even bad sex is fun. But why choose it?

Thanks for that but we don't get a lot of snow and ice in Thailand

Whats it all about Alfie ?

Is it just for a moment we live ? . . .

Whats it all about , when you work it out A . .L . .F . .I . .E ?

Struth you fair brought me back in time . . .Alf Garnet, Alfie Bass . . .Open the door shut the window, ooo missus aaay vicar.

There's a week in Butlins and a free bag of sherbet if you can tell me who sang the above song, and who played Alfie in the film of the same name.

Reminiscing aside, it's true enough Alfred we don't get a lot of snow and ice, but in it's place we do get plenty of rain, mud and flood water which can make the road just as slippery.

Well, it was Cilla Black and Micheal Caine, sherbert can be sent too...................

And the winner is . . . . . . .That little whippersnapper wot terrorised Black 'eef in is yoof. . .wiv is taking, driving, tuning and crashing . . .none other than . . . .the right bleedin' honourable Transam

And for your further edification . . . . . . . . .

In the past, as the heath was crossed by the major route south through London, it was a natural assembly area for some of our most famous historical characters, probably the most notable being Henry V who met Londoners here on his return from triumph at Agincourt. The road from the heath to Dover was also favoured by highwaymen as the gorse and old pits offered good hiding places - the notorious Dick Turpin frequented the area in the 1730s.

Thanks for that but we don't get a lot of snow and ice in Thailand

Whats it all about Alfie ?

Is it just for a moment we live ? . . .

Whats it all about , when you work it out A . .L . .F . .I . .E ?

Struth you fair brought me back in time . . .Alf Garnet, Alfie Bass . . .Open the door shut the window, ooo missus aaay vicar.

There's a week in Butlins and a free bag of sherbet if you can tell me who sang the above song, and who played Alfie in the film of the same name.

Reminiscing aside, it's true enough Alfred we don't get a lot of snow and ice, but in it's place we do get plenty of rain, mud and flood water which can make the road just as slippery.

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE ON SNOW AND ICE

- by Pete Snidal, ©1998

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IS YOUR CAR FRONT WHEEL DRIVE?

If it is, there are a few things you should know about driving one of these babies in slippery conditions. You may have been driving it for years without any problem, not knowing that when and if you encounter a condition of front-end skid, or fwd understeer, you life may well depend on knowing what to do, and most importantly, that you don't want to do what was correct with Rear Wheel Drive.

Front Wheel Drive automobiles, although they have been in production in various parts of the world for most of this century, first came to America in any kind of quantity with the advent of the Austin/Morris Mini, first introduced here around 1959. Prior to this time, although there were the odd Tucker, Saab, or Citroen to be found here and there, Front Wheel Drive was a rarity. But what the Minis started caught on, becoming much more popular with the introduction of the Volkswagen Rabbit, and then springing up under the badge of just about every major manufacturer, from Audi to Oldsmobile.

This was a Good Thing for some reasons - the unitized drive line inherent in FWD made production cheaper and easier, for example. And, once you hit the "edge" of adhesion, such as in snow and ice, FWD makes for a much more controllable car - But You Have To Know How To Drive It!

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS OPERATE COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY IN SNOW!

This isn't absolutely true; when the traction is good, and/or when the vehicle is being driven slowly enough, there is virtually no apparent difference between controlling a front wheel drive vehicle and doing the same with its Rear Wheel Drive Counterpart. Consequently, there are people all over the planet who have been driving their FWD cars for years in a completely blissful state of pure ignorance that there are fundamental and important differences between FWD and RWD. But all this completely changes on that snowy day when you find yourself just a little fast in a corner that's just a little too slippery - when you get to "the edge."

Yet, for some reason, it doesn't yet seem to be popular knowledge that a front wheel drive vehicle is completely different creature to control once the limits of adhesion are reached. I have asked many drivers of FWD cars if they are aware of the different driving style required in event of a skid, and I don't remember finding a single one who knew what I was talking about. I have, however, encountered a few who won't drive their FWD in winter, saying it just acts "too squirrely" on ice and snow.

Rally drivers, for whom the Mini became the ne plus ultra within a year or two of its introduction, (there were other, less popular fwds, such as Saab and Citroen) found the differences very quickly. Sports car magazines of the time were full of praise for the way FWDs "pulled their way around corners," in slippery conditions, while the best one could do with the rear wheel drives was to "cross them up" and hope for the best - using power to the (rear) drive wheels to control how far outward the rear end slews, and correcting for the inevitable outward skid by steering the front end outward to compensate. A little too much power, of course, and the car would inevitably sail right off the outside of the corner - sideways - or come to a halt after spinning around for a while.

STEERING FROM BOTH ENDS

The FWD's, on the other hand, gave the driver considerably greater control of his or her automobile. Here's why:

• Even once traction has been basically lost, the front wheels can be pointed in the direction you want the front end to go, and by varying the engine rpm to "find" the best traction, the front end will generally "claw" its way to where you want it - around the corner, in your lane.
• Adhesion of the rear wheels can be modulated, at the same time, by APPLYING BRAKES in the corner! Thus the best cornering style, at speed, involved using right foot on the gas, and left foot on the brake, at the same time. More yaw at the rear is effected by more brake pedal pressure; more claw at the front by applying more throttle.
• Bonus: You still have the steering wheel, and now it's not just something you have to use to correct rear-wheel oversteer. You can use it to adjust the position of the front end towards or away from the center of the corner, as you simultaneously adjust traction with the right foot, and keeping the rear end where you want it with the left foot.

SOUNDS A LITTLE DIFFERENT,DOES IT?

You can imagine what would happen if you tried to drive a rear wheel drive car in this fashion. Brakes and Gas at the same time? As you power through a corner?

Conventional wisdom, and all the driving manuals we studied for our first driving licence, caution against using either brakes or power in a corner or curve. Yet, in the case of the FWD, both of these are used to advantage. Conclusion?:

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS HANDLE DIFFERENTLY

And, here's another little thing to keep in mind:

IGNORING THIS CAN GET YOU KILLED!

Pretty strong language. But for good reason. Every winter, literally thousands of lives are made miserable, or ended, by a failure on the part of those in charge of training us to drive to publicize this difference. Drivers manuals still tell us to do such ridiculous things as "in the event of a skid, take your foot off the gas pedal, and turn the front wheels in the direction of a skid until you regain control," WITHOUT DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN FRONT AND REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

Right. Are these guys completely stupid, or what? Well, when the book was written, in the time when virtually all cars in North America were Rear Wheel Drive, this advice made sense. When the rear wheel drive car starts to skid, or as the accident reports all say, "fail to negotiate a curve," and the driver follows this advice, let's take a look at what happens:

Skids In Rear Wheel Drive

When the driver backs off on the throttle, engine braking takes effect. This braking on the rear wheels, providing the car is already beginning to turn, will have the effect of making the rear end slew outward. In less extreme cases, this alone will then get the car pointing in the appropriate direction, in which case the driver then applies a little throttle, and all goes as planned. In the more extreme cases, this rear-end slewing requires correction by steering the front wheels outward as well, and the car goes around the corner a bit sideways. In the completely extreme case, the driver applies power through the corner, modulating the rear end slew with gas pedal, correcting with steering outward, and either gets through the corner and continues on his way, or spins the car out to an embarassing, if not more costly, halt.

But in all events, the advice to take your foot off the gas when encountering a skid, is the logical first reaction - in a Rear Wheel Drive Car. Now, let's look what happens when you do this in a FWD automobile:

Skids in Front Wheel Drive

People are being killed in FWD cars every day by following the conventional "wisdom." Let's take a look at why:

The car enters a corner or curve. The driver finds that it "fails to negotiate," meaning that it isn't turning the corner like it should - due to driving too fast for the existing road condition, of course. So at this point, which may easily be the first time for the hapless driver of the FWD who has suddenly found himself in over his head. So, he (or she) follows the natural reflex action, which is also the conventional "wisdom," and lets off completely on the gas pedal. Now, what happens?

This time, the rear end doesn't slew around, pointing the car into the curve. No, instead, engine braking having just been applied to the front, steering wheels, they lock up, and ALL STEERING HAS NOW DISAPPEARED. The car proceeds to go in a straight line, off the end of the corner, into whatever is on the outside. On a right hand curve, this will entail first crossing the oncoming lane or lanes, and then, if that has been done without encountering any logging trucks or other fast-moving (in the wrong direction!) obstacles, then there is often a tree, cliff, river bank, or rock face to complicate the experience. On a left hand curve, the car goes off the right hand side of the road, into the ditch, guardrail, snowbank (good), river (bad), or whatever it encounters before stopping. No fun!

Obviously, this was a bad choice. The natural First Reaction, letting off on the throttle, and thus braking the front wheels, and losing ALL of what insufficient traction there was,was the wrong thing to do. Yet, not everybody is a rally driver, and the full-on extreme cornering practice described above is not a skill at everyone's fingertips. So what should the "normal" driver of a FWD car do to prepare him/herself for the day when the car gets into that dreaded "failure to negotiate" mode?

THE CORRECT FIRST ACTION

Is obviously NOT to "let off completely on the gas pedal." No, in fact a good BASIC first reaction is to apply SOME gas pedal with the right foot, and at the same time, apply SOME brake with the left foot. The slight braking of the rear wheels will bring on some slewing around of the rear of the car, and the braking of the front wheels will be offset by the power applied to them at the same time. In other words, the effect will be about the same as if you'd let off on the throttle on a rear wheel drive car.

NOW FOR THE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE DIFFERENCE!

But you're in a better position, because you can also vary the power to the front wheels with the gas pedal, and "hunt" for a throttle opening that will give the best traction, as you steer INTO the curve. If you find the traction window, which you usually will, you will be able to make the front end "claw" its way arond the corner. So, once you learn to drive a FWD in snow, is it better? You Bet it is!

YOU SHOULD BE READY FOR THIS

If you're still with me, and this makes sense to you, you're not yet out of the woods for your first encounter with "failure to negotiate." Although practice makes perfect, it is most cases not very practical for the average person to go out and practice being a rally driver to be ready for the time when you may need it. But you CAN do these:

• Programme this First Reaction. A few times a day, while driving in slippery weather, ask yourself, "What would I do if this thing refused to go around the next corner?" Then, tell yourself, I would apply SOME throttle, at the same time as SOME brake, and STEER my way around the corner.
• Practice doing it, with just LIGHT pressure on each, when it's safe to do so. (Check that mirror first!) Hopefully, you'll find, in the event that you run into trouble some bad day, that you've programmed yourself to take the right action, instead of the wrong one in the drivers manuals.
• If you're lucky enough to have somewhere to try it out, such as an empty, snow-filled (or icy) parking lot, (WITHOUT HIDDEN CURBS!) you might want to give a few gentle turns a try with the both-feet method. Start slowly at first - it's a real drag to pile your car up while trying to learn how not to pile your car up!

"Point The Front Wheels Where You Want To Go, And Stuff It"

This was the popular adage for newly-converted Rallye Mini Drivers 'way back then. It was a little extreme - I'd personally not go so far as to recommend such a gung-ho attitude on the part of Joe Family, the first time he finds his mini van heading for the logging truck, but I Sure As hel_l would NEVER recommend letting off on the throttle and expecting it to act like the old '69 Chevy.

No, the best First Action is somewhere in between - light brake and gas, and remember the drive wheels are trying to get enough traction to pull the front end to where they're pointed. But whatever you do, DON'T JUST LET OFF ON THE GAS AND PRAY. Because if you do, you're very likely to meet the gent to whom you're praying - sooner than you want.

I have sent mail on this subject to my Provincial Ministry of Highways, and to the Governent Car Insurance agency, with each change of government for the past two or three changes, now, and gotten nowhere. (Well, I just did with our latest one - the results aren't in yet on that one.)

So I hit on the idea of making this page available to the planet. If it saves just one life, it'll be better than nothing. But I wish someone would get to the various Highway Safety Councils, etc. all over the planet. Feel free to copy and distribute this information all you like. Tell everyone you know to check the website. It's a long url, but then, _everybody_ doesn't have a domain name, like (www.fwd-death.com) Till ] then, I hope you never need to know this, but if you do, remember:

HALF GAS, HALF BRAKE, STEER.

SHINY SIDE UP, EVERYBODY!

Disclaimer: All the above is my opinion only; if you decide to try this out for yourself, as I have many times, and things don't work out for you, well just remember there are many other factors in keeping your butt where it belongs when you hit slip city. Exercise caution and discretion in all matters.

Come to think on it, if you feel like suing somebody, how about the people who are still putting out manuals that tell you to take your foot off the gas in all cases, with all cars?

Besides, you don't want to sue me, anyway. I have no money, but I _do_ have a Pit Bull with AIDS, who, in the words of Mick Jagger, is "Dyne......... ta meetcha." While you're here, why not take a look at another good idea for drivers? My Pro-Ma Performance Products Pages mail me here if you like

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They have that funky slipping and a sliding look, must be a slightly body contact sport, or maybe they just leave the track more than intended, either way, fair play to them. A video of the race would be interesting, to see the dynamics, and info on suspension and wheel stuff. They couldn't be lower to the ground so I guess they put their foot down.

How much do I spend on cars, well as yet, nothing, I spend it all on cabs . . . .however, I shall like so many here be splashing out in cash, and like so many , agonising and procrastinating on the pro's and con's, of car or pick up, so hopefully something with low miles and history, that represents reasonable value given the state of play here

A more provocative thread might be " How Much Do You Spend On Your Extended Thai Family, and How Does This Effect How Much You Have Left For Your The Wheels Of Your Choice "