Velocette

Yes 'Creative' dentistry' is world wide ! . . . .Many years ago In London the Evening Standard or whatever, did an undercover check up on 20 or so private dentists, the 'plants' no pun intended, all had perfect teeth as verified by some dental professor, the revealing upshot was that over 70 % of the dentists recommended totally unnessasary work ! . . . . .dentists, certainly in the UK, have one of the highest credit ratings due to their ability to generate income as and when needed.

I don't' know if the same is true in Ireland, although their prices have to be amongst the highest in the world, having lived in Dublin for many years I can vouch for that. Either way, I've never felt that an Irish dentist was being financially creative with my teeth !

Motor Cycle News did a similar undercover test for bikes, and had similar results, charging for jobs not done, jobs done incorrectly, etc . . . . . . and ditto for car mechanics undercover, oil and filters often not changed, and worse dangerous practices. I guess we shouldn't expect dentists to be any different, it's just opportunistic crime at the end of the day, irrespective of trade or profession. . .a good honest car mechanic and dentist are priceless, actually now I think about it, I had both when I lived in Dublin

Which Jazz is being discussed here, 2002 to 2007 or 2007-2011? In LOS they share the same 1,5 4 valve engine (for those of the old model having 4 valves), but except for that not one part in common. Actually engine is not identical neither.

In addition Jazz comes with 2 or 3 different suspension setups and steering ratios, LOS usually selling the US spec with light steering and soft suspension.

As for the article stating Jazz, Civic and CRV coming with same suspension, utter b-llsh-t. On the contrary, each of them have different suspension and steering for different markets, making at least 30 different combinations. Check part numbers for those not believing.

There is no secret electric power steering does not give same feeling with frontwheels as an hydaulic one, but I find present Jazz in LOS spec to be a decent ride, on par or above most.

In adition, LOS Jazz is made from LOS made parts, UK Jazz mostly from EU made parts. Not much identical.

This is the problem I had with the generality of the post and the article, the one posted was from 2002 so lumping the current car and varying market requirements etc. some years later is really stretching the goal posts....

I agree it's stretching the goal posts, no question about that, however , the problem in question appears to have been around for many years without being resoved. So it was certainly around as early as 2002 until the present day.

Katebeachbums info is interesting with regard to all the different components, setups etc. Equally fascinating and bizarre ( I think) is the different parts twixt LOS and the UK, who would Adam and Eve it ? . . . . .and it gets the thumbs up as well

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

It sounds more like dodgy camber and toe changes magnified by smaller, narrower tires coupled with an unfamiliarity and inability of new drivers (likely mostly female) to adjust to the lighter front end weight of the jazz and the power assist feature which is not activated at higher speeds such as highway speeds so you get more steering feed back on a very small rack which magnifies any drifting or bumps as well as aero lift on the already light front end. It is the future of cars so it is the drivers that need to adjust not the other way around.

My advice is to purchase a good front splitter to plant the front end more at speed and also reduce front end lift as well as anticipate the significant difference from around town, low speed driving when the power assist is aiding the driver versus the highway when they are using the same system but only without the power assist in effect so the steering will feel a bit more delayed and soft as it is not a rack and pinion for example it has to move fluid back and forth through the reservoir and system when you steer and that gives it a bit of a soft feel and delay in reaction which is again magnified by the weight, size of tires and wheel base..

JFYI I don't own a Jazz so I have no dog in this fight but I have driven them on a number of occasions and made the trip from Bangkok to Phuket and back in one with quite a load..

Mmmm . . . . . .Firstly we'll overlook the sexist remarks that the girls cannot steer miaow ! . . .secondly, I have no knowledge of physics . . .so you may well be correct with your theory regarding handling, but how does it explain that those who replace their steering then claim to have steering that feels perfect and just like they always remembered it to be in previous cars ? . . .these claims don't seem exaggerated, and so many from male drivers too !

When you advise fitting ' front splitters' , forgive my ignorance, are they front spoilers to push the front down at speed ? . . .either way, having driven a Jazz some distance you do acknowledge some form of deficiency or lack of feel, saying ithe steering feels soft and delayed, which in itself sounds a little disturbing, it does sound like a design fault. I mean maybe we could live with soft steering, but 'delayed' , even that word rings alarm bells. Then disturbingly you add that this is the future, and that we should just adapt to it . . . .that just sounds a little bit spooky to me. I thought technology was meant to improve and reassure,by giving the feeling of control, not to challenge and make people feel fearful.

Yet curiously, you don't personally seem to harbour any anxiety regarding your driving experience with the Jazz. So I guess for you it seemed safe and predictable.

Anyhoo (as the Canadians say) . . .the original thread was about people attempting to drive in a straight line at speed, who were obliged to continiously make small corrections to go in a straight line. Which they had never experienced in their previous cars, and which they found disturbing, stressful and potentially dangerous. I may be that the Thai Jazz does not have the same problem or to quite the same degree. Also I'm not sure if your saying it doesn't feel as natural at speed as a rack and pinion system would.

Either way Warpspeed, I do appreciate your input and analysis,it's certainly food for thought.

http://www.honda.co....honda_jazz.html

Here you can see the specifications in english (was real hard to find)

Seems that it has 5 SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION WITH GRADE LOGIC CONTROL,

DIRECT CONTROL AND SHIFT HOLD SYSTEM. I dont know what it means but sounds nice

Hi Robblok,

Thanks for that info, yes it seems you do not have the dreaded i-shift, instead you have the 5 speed auto box ( the Brits previously had the 7 speed version, which was also good) I guess with the 'shift hold' you can choose to remain in auto or use the paddles to change gear manually, a usefull option.

Happy motoring !

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Hi Robblok,

I'm delighted that your Jazz is performing perfectly ! . .congrats on your new car I sincerely hope that your are never afflicted with the dreaded 'steering syndrome' that afflicts so many in Europe and Oz. And it's quite possible that you never will, not all UK Jazz owners have to replace their steering, but many do. Perhaps the Thai Jazz has a different steering column, it's quite possible. You do not say if your Jazz has the i-shift or the regular 5 or 7 speed auto box . My wife wants a Jazz but I was aware of these possible problems, so thought I would do research on the Thai spec Jazz. My intention was intention was not to invoke a heated debate ! . . merely to get some facts.

I do appreciate that you have spent a lot of money buying your Jazz , it's a big investment for anyone. And we are all very sensitive about our 'motors' , the image we feel they project, what a car maybe says about us as people, and as men, I know it can all get a bit 'Freudian' to say the least. Anyway enjoy your Jazz

Got a new Honda Jazz the top model just a few months old and its great. No problem keeping straight what so ever. Great little car would not buy any other car. And if i want i can use paddle shifts instead of normal gear. But I have to admit i almost never do that.

Honda Jazz (December 2002)

words - Glenn Butler There's no doubting the Honda Jazz raises the benchmark for compact cars in Australia. It's economical to run, incredibly roomy and versatile, it's even zippy. Shame then, it's let down by a too jiggly, too firm ride. Glenn Butler reports Honda's not happy. A number of Australia's motoring journalists were taken to task by Honda Australia for their opinion on the Jazz and its deficiencies. Like CarPoint, they found the rear suspension setup firm and unyielding, at times making the Jazz more than a handful to keep on the bitumen.

Like CarPoint they found the Jazz's steering lacking. It's lifeless, remote and inconsistently weighted, giving you very little clue to what the front end is doing. At highway speeds the Jazz is prone to wandering, in corners the Jazz is more difficult than it should be to direct accurately and confidently.

Like CarPoint, and to be fair, everyone attending the half-day launch in Sydney was impressed with the Jazz's packaging, drivetrain refinement, and especially its fuel economy. But like CarPoint, full marks were withheld because the chassis lets the rest of the Jazz down.

If you want to read our first test, follow this link. Click Here. Now, CarPoint has spent more than a quick afternoon in the Jazz. We managed to wangle a 1.3-litre GLi manual out of Honda Australia for a week-long test. Everyday driving, everyday uses, everyday life. But did it change our opinion of Honda's funky little number? Did our week with the Jazz change our perspective on its flaws and finery?

Nope. Not one bit.

Look. Let's get a couple of things clear from the get-go. The Honda Jazz is a truly brilliant small car. It is revolutionary in its approach to a number of things; fuel economy and interior packaging are two examples where Jazz is far ahead of the rest. It's undoubtedly impressive value for money on paper, and stacks the goodies extremely high given its $16-$24k asking price.

The Jazz is let down in a couple of fundamental areas, and one in particular can be laid at the feet of economic rationalisation. Let's punish that whipping boy a bit more, shall we.

Did you know that Honda puts the same basic suspension system as the Jazz into the Civic and the CR-V. Sure, there's something to be said for saving costs by getting the most usage out of component development. But does an inner city, 1010kg compact car have the same requirements as a 1485kg small/medium-sized four wheel drive?

The Jazz's front suspension is too firm, the rear even more so. Passengers and driver alike will feel the jiggle long after the bump or speed hump has been conquered. And rear seat passengers aren't likely to stay cheery for long, for while the seats are good, firm and supportive, the ride sends shockwaves along the spine.

So, let's recap, and get all this in perspective. The Jazz scores incredibly well on our clipboard in the following areas: Engine and transmission, fuel economy (astounding!), safety, interior space and versatility, refinement and build quality.

The Jazz scores crosses against its wooden, lifeless steering, similarly wooden pedals and way too firm ride. And the funny thing is Honda had two suspension tunes to choose from for Australia, and they picked the harder European-developed one. We wonder if the Japanese one is better suited to our roads...

When shopping in the compact, city car class and price range, the Jazz is - at the time of writing - as good as you'll get. If you asked for a star rating we'd be stamping four out of five on its forehead, and seriously thinking about adding a half. The kicker is, it could easily have grabbed the fifth, if the ride wasn't so obviously and annoyingly deficient.

Hello, I haven't a clue about the Jazz, just intrigued with your log in. Are you or were you a Velocette owner? I have owned so many bikes I have completely lost count. Just the one Velo, a Viper, back in the 60's. Still have very fond memories of that bike.

Sorry, off topic.

Yes I was ! . . .my first Velo was the 200cc opposed ohv flat twin, with twin carbs and shaft drive, the Valiant, on which I passed my test. It was developed from the side valve whispering Le Velo that "plod" used to sneak up on those 'loitering with intent' . . . . . " cor, never erd you cumin' guvnor, it's a fair cop !" . . .The Valiant in all fairness to Velocette was an excellent small bike, smooth and pokey for it's day, and looked just like a small BMW. After that I had various bikes then got a Viper in Clubmans trim, which was really the Biz. I too have very fond memories, priceless.

And lest we not forget , in 1961 a production Venom managed to do over the 'ton' for 24 hours, a record still unbeaten by any 500, to this day, no mean feat.

Velocette produced excellent bikes, with first class engineering, such a shame that like all the other Brit bikes they couldn't compete, for so many reasons, with the Japanese. As your no doubt aware an Indian company took the production of Enfield singles, complete with all the old factories machinery for same, I've often lamented that they didn't do the same with the big Velo singles as there such a classier machine.

Anyway, happy days when we were at the height of our 'studlyness' and full of testosterone !

Uk web sites contain a plethora of moans, groans and complaints about the Jazz. It is littered with people who had to replace the complete steering assembly of their Jazz, at their own expense. They claim that it is nigh impossible at speed to safely maintain a straight line. Saying that they are obliged to make constant corrections, as if the power steering is constantly switching itself off and on. Also that the steering does not return to centre even driving slowly.

Neither Honda or their service centres acknowledge this steering problem, some owners have replaced their steering more than once. Naturally there are many angry owners out there.

Other faults appear to be the replacement for the very successful, original CVT auto box, to the I-shift, which is difficult to drive smoothly, often lurching about and jerky. In fact the previous Jazz with the original good auto has increased in value as people search for them avoiding the new dreaded I-shit.

Other moans were having to replace rear wheel bearings too quickly, corroding rear discs and epg valves. And curiously, cracking windscreens due to large glass sunroofs that lack rigidity.

My question is, does the Thai Jazz have the same dodgy steering assembly ? . . . .and does it also have the same I-shift box ?

Seems the press have given the new March a critical reviews. One claiming the engine is rough and restrained, and slow in any gear, manual box is notchy but cv auto is smooth. Another claiming that when you put your foot down down the auto is smooth but very noisy and wailing, says manual makes better use of what little power there is. Europe will get the 98bhp supercharged engine, while Thailand gets the low power 78bhp version. Seems like a lost opportunity for Nissan, or are car journalists just too critical ? . . .I guess a long, long test drive before parting with your hard earned 'spondulux' is the only answer.

To quote from "Retiring in Thailand . . . . live in Paradise for Pennies on the Dollar"

The Immigration office sometimes refuses one year marriage extensions for the SMALLEST of reasons !

Adding that it pays to be well prepared and have more than the minimum 400,000 baht.

I imagine that there must be evidence to support this statement, but have to see any on Thai Visa.