Peppy

I also hear สองปีซ้อน used quite frequently.

Whilst in a bank yesterday, they were playing an American movie dubbed in Thai and with Thai subtitles also. It's not likely that the bank

employees installed these subtitles themselves so there must be Thai movies available like that, for the deaf I would think. Has anyone

ever come across any?

Most DVDs of Hollywood movies sold in Thailand have options for both Thai dubbing and Thai subtitles--turn on both and you're good to go.

According to the Wikipedia page for the Khmer language ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_language ), all the main dialects, including Northern Khmer, are mutually intelligible; however, the page for Northern Khmer ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Khmer ) states that:

Northern Khmer differs from the Phnom Penh dialect (considered the standard) in the number and variety of vowel phonemes, consonantal distribution, lexicon and grammar, giving Northern Khmer a distinct accent easily recognizable by speakers of other dialects. Some speakers of Northern Khmer may understand other varieties of Khmer but speakers of standard Khmer who have not been exposed to Northern Khmer often have trouble understanding Northern Khmer. These facts have led some linguists to advocate considering Northern Khmer a separate, but closely related language.

But I'd imagine that speakers of Northern Khmer would still be able to pick up on the Phnom Penh dialect and be able to make themselves understood fairly quickly if they were to spend any length of time in Cambodia.

Since this is turning into a "good Thai movies" discussion...

เรื่องตลก 69 reuang dta-lok hok gaao "A funny story about 69" (English title: 6ixty-nin9) is a great movie--I did think it got a bit disappointing towards the end though.

And มนต์รักทรานซิสเตอร์ mon rak trahn-sit-sa-ter "Transistor radio love mantra" (English title: Transistor Love Story) is one of my favourite movies of all time--if you haven't seen it, do!

Both of the above were written and directed by Pen-Ek Ratanaruang (เป็นเอก รัตนเรือง), who also did the previously-mentioned Last Life in the Universe (titled เรื่องรัก น้อยนิด มหาศาล reuang rak noi nit ma-ha-sahn "A tiny little enormous love story*" in Thai).

*The Thai title of Last Life in the Universe, reuang rak noi nit ma-ha-sahn, is a play on words. It could also be construed as "A story of enormous love for Noi and Nit"--the two main female characters in the movie are called Noi (little) and Nit (little, tiny, bitty).

เขาคิดว่าถ้าสู้ซึ่งหน้าไม่ได้ก็ต้องใช้อุบายวิธีต่างๆ ทำให้มันอ่อนกำลังลง

Does:

"He thinks that if he can not overwhelm [his opponent] face to face, he needs to use various tricks to weaken him."

accurately reflect the Thai sentence?  Thanks.

Hi David,

At first glance it seemed you'd captured the essence just fine, but coming back to it now I have other ideas...

I think perhaps the meaning of ซึ่งหน้า combined with สู้ might be something like "a fair fight"--that is, a fight in which neither side has any outside help. If this is the case, the translation might go something like, "He thinks that if he can't handle him in a fair fight, he'll have to use various tricks to weaken him."

Another possibility is that ซึ่งหน้า here means "openly", as in "for all to see" (and this definition is supported by the Domnern-Sathienpong dictionary), with the idea being that the subject of the sentence can't be seen to openly be fighting with his opponent (perhaps for political reasons), and so needs to find other methods to subdue him, in which case I'd say something like, "He thinks that if he can't fight him openly...". This makes the most sense to me, since the original sentence seems to draw a contrast between "using tricks" and fighting "ซึ่งหน้า", but this contrast isn't present when you translate ซึ่งหน้า as "face to face", since you can still use tricks in a "face to face" fight.

ซึ่ง ๆ หหน้า is in the dictionary means ต่อหน้า an adverb describing the manner of doing something; in this case 'face to face' 'to her face'. I guess personally is good enough. ๆ this symbol is written with a space before and after but the space after หน่า is a comma.

ๆ is written with space after it.

For example: ผู้หญิงคนนี้สวยจริงๆ นะ

Gosh for a moment there I thought that I was wrong;  Thai airways magazine shows ต่าง ๆ and sure enough so does the dictionary in this very word  ซึ่ง ๆ หน้า  In the less formal fonts you are right but I am still following primary school level Thai. :jap:

Tgeezer is correct here, that mai yamok is written with a space before and after. That is, at least, according to http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ไม้ยมก, which cites the Royal Institute Dictionary--as authoritative a source there is on matters like this.

For what it's worth, though, I've seen it written, in edited publications, with no space before and a space after, with no space before or after, and even with a space before but no space after. Thais (generally speaking) aren't big on details...

สำหรับที่รักของผม---

รูปถ่ายรูปแรกของเรา

พิมาย, นครราชสีมา

วันเสาร์ ที่ ๑๙ สิงหาคม ๒๕๔๓

วันแรกของชีวิตคู่

และจุดเริ่มต้นแห่งรักระหว่างเราสองคน

I'm fairly confident this is ok, but as always, comments and improvements are welcome!

You can use GOOGLE TRANSLATE.

Hah! Just to recap, here's the original sentence from the OP:

ผมเขินที่จะเอาไปให้เธอซึ่งๆหน้า จะจ้างเด็กๆที่วิ่งเล่นอยู่เอาไป ก็ไม่กล้าอีกนั่น

And here's my take on it, which I think accurately reflects the meaning: "I was too shy to give it to her in person, and I didn't have the courage to get one of the kids that was running about to give it to her either."

Here's what Google makes of it: "I was shy to take her to the other pages. To hire children ran out to play on. That did not dare again."

Context, context, context. Translation's all about understanding meaning in context, and computers are hopeless at it.

รู้อย่างเป็ด roo yahng bpet "To know like a duck"

The idea being that a duck can fly, walk and swim, but is not particularly skilled or graceful at any of these things, at least when compared with animals that are dedicated fliers, walkers, or swimmers. A "jack of all trades, but master of none".

....I don't think the culture of any place you decide to live has ANYTHING to do with the language you are trying to learn, AT ALL!!

.....

IF a person speaks POLITE, (no matter what country or language) it is MORE than enough ..  

I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree with you here, Todd. If by culture, you mean the BS about how some people in Thailand are better than others and need to be treated as if they were better--well, I do think that's utter claptrap designed to keep the poor down and the rich up. But I think many aspects of culture are relevant and useful when learning a language. Holidays, music, religious ceremonies, movies, politics, history, superstitions, traditions, fashion, food: All of these things are part of culture, and while knowledge of them is not absolutely necessary for a language student, it will help to enrich their understanding of who the people that speak a particular language are, what they think about, what they believe--and this understanding makes it easier to relate to and communicate with speakers of that language.

There's far more to culture than just being polite. (And I've never studied Thai formally, so how don't know how they go about it, but I hope the Thai language teachers out there who make "culture" part of their teachings realize this.)

The biggest problem with romanized Thai isn't lack of tones--they can be shown with the aid of accents--it's that it isn't used anywhere outside of signage and books that teach Thai to foreigners. As well, there's no standard system. One sound could be romanized a half dozen different ways, whereas any particular sound in Thai is written one way and one way only in the Thai script. So learning to read and write is a wise move if you're serious about learning the language--it's actually far easier than sticking to romanization in the long run. (Though reading, writing, and knowing which word is which tone still won't help you with what the tones actually sound like--you'll need to listen to native speakers for that.)

When I first started learning I used Easy Thai by Gordon H. Allison. It doesn't teach any useful vocabulary, and there's nothing in the way of grammar, or conversation, or useful phrases--but it does teach the letters, their sounds, and how to put them together to make words. And it does this very well, in my opinion.

I then moved on to Thai For Beginners by Benjawan Poomsan Becker, and when I finished that I did Teach Yourself Thai by David Smythe, and then the next two Poomsan Becker books, Thai For Intermediate Learners and Thai For Advanced readers. All of these books seem to get good reviews, and they teach reading and writing as well (alongside vocabulary, grammar, and conversation). I'd still recommend you start with Easy Thai, though, for the best introduction to the writing system.

The translation is slightly inaccurate, เค็กวิ่งไปให้ is child run go give(run over to give; perhaps?) เด็กว่งเล่นอยู่ describes the child ie. child running for fun ( running around) ที่ is the pronoun for child (who) and is the subject of the second clause ไปให้เขา

If you wouldn't analyze it like that in English then you don't need all that of course.  

Agree with tgeezer here. Perhaps it would be better to say, "...hire one of the children that was running around to take it to her..."; though it doesn't "flow" nearly as well as the first translation, I think it reflects the original passage more accurately.

And I'm not sure if "อีก" indicates "again" in the sense that he'd already hired a child to deliver a message in the past--I think it might just be there to emphasize that he's also shy about getting a child to do it (as well as giving it to her in person).

Even if there is no dedicated beginners thread here, ask away, as sometimes the simplest questions garner the most interesting responses.

I agree with Todd here--no need for a special thread, just start a new topic and you're bound to get some answers!

I have to admit, it looks rather like gibberish to me too...

จ๊ะ = จะ (will) (?)

ขวามันไม่สวย = It doesn't look good on the right or The right side doesn't look good

แต่มีไรให้คนหา = But if you have something get someone to find it for you (?)

นะอิ = นะชิ (particles indicating imperative)

What is the context? And what is "the gist" of it?

^ The above link leads to a page about ฅ, the now obsolete consonant once used in many words that are now spelled with ค... but I think the OP's asking about ต.

To (try to) answer the question, there are no words in English that begin with a ต sound, but it is present in the following:

stone, stick, steam, stop, etc.

To make the ต sound, try and say the words without the initial "s". Remember, you aren't saying "tone, tick, team, top"; rather, you're saying "stone, stick, steam, stop", but without the "s" sound. Put your hand over your mouth when you do it--if you're making the right sound, there should be no puff of air released with the "t".

As for ด, in the initial position, it sounds the same as the English "d", like in dog, dirt, dip, do etc.

It reads, "ลำบากยังงัย "เรา" ก็จะไม่ "ทิ้ง" กัน --รัก หนิง"

In roman letters, "lum-bahk yang ngai "rao" gaw ja mai "ting" gun  --rak ning"

Translated, "Whatever difficulty we face, we'll never leave each other. Love, Ning"

Note--the spelling of "yang ngai" is slangy--it should (properly) be spelt ยังไง, though even that's just a phonetic representation of the full form, อย่างไร, which means "how", "however", or "whatever". Also, I left the quote marks on "rao" (we), and "ting" (to leave, to dump) out in the translation--quote marks are often used simply for emphasis in Thai, so they don't translate here.

I've rather literally translated "เราก็จะไม่ทิ้งกัน / rao gaw ja mai ting gun" as "we'll never leave each other", but a more idiomatic translation might be something like "we'll always have each other", or perhaps, "we'll never part". Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea.

เก็บ in this sense is not "gathering...., but "leaveing....behind.

Thank you, I think you're right. Perhaps I could also have said "putting away"? I guess it really depends on your interpretation of the song, whether or not you think he intends to take the stories and thoughts from the city back home with him--indeed, "leaving behind" is probably the best choice.

ดูช้างให้ดูหาง  ดูนางให้ดูแม่

Like mother, like daughter.

I'm not sure if that's the best translation. I've always understood it as being advice for would-be husbands: "If you want to know what an elephant's like, look at its tail; If you want to know what a woman's like, look at her mother." Of course, the principle of "Like mother, like daughter" is assumed.

To actually say "Like mother, like daughter", or "Like father, like son", ลูกตกไม่ไกลต้น luuk dtok mai glai dton is a better choice. It literally means "The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree", and is a direct equivalent to the English sayings "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" and "Like a chip off the old block".

Oh, and can you actually check the condition and/or temperament of an elephant by looking at its tail?

There's another translation here: http://www.justsomelyrics.com/1682665/เสก-โลโซ-10-Years-Rock-D.2-แม่-Lyrics

This one's much less literal than mine--they take some real liberties with the translation--and there are some outright mistakes, but it might be of interest anyway, especially since it also has the lyrics in roman script. (One glaring mistake is the translation of หอบดวงใจเจ็บช้ำเกินทน as "When I'm out of breath, and it hurts too much." หอบ can mean both "winded/out of breath" and "to carry/to lug"--in this case, I think it's clear that Sek is singing of dragging his bruised heart back home, not about being out of breath. There are several other errors in the translation--see if you can spot them all!)

Thanks Todd. While I'm not so sure about the whole "Mother's Day" concept, which seems like just a big marketing effort in the west, and an exercise in propaganda here, I'm all for the idea of expressing one's gratitude to one's mother.

I too quite like this song, so I think I'll try my hand at translating it:

ป่านนี้ จะเป็นอย่างไร จากมาไกล แสนนาน // By now, how are you doing, I've been away, so long

คิดถึง คิดถึงบ้าน จากมาตั้งนาน เมื่อไรจะได้กลับ // I miss, I miss home, away so long, when will I return?

แม่จ๋า แม่รู้บ้างไหม ว่าดวงใจ ดวงนี้เป็นห่วง // Mother dear, do you know? that my heart, my heart is worried

จากลูกน้อย ที่แม่ห่วงหวง อยู่เมืองหลวง ศิวิไลซ์ ไกลบ้านเรา // From your child, who you worry about so, in the capital--civilization!--so far from home

คิดถึงแม่ขึ้นมา น้ำตามันก็ไหล อยากกลับไป ซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่ // Whenever I miss you, the tears stream down, I want to go back, and collapse in your lap

ในอ้อมกอด รักจริง ที่เที่ยงแท้ ในอกแม่ สุขเกินใคร // In your embrace, true love, unconditional, at your breast, more contented than anyone

อีกไม่นาน ลูกจะกลับไป หอบดวงใจ เจ็บช้ำเกินทน // Not long now, your child will return, hauling his heart, insufferably bruised

เก็บเรื่องราว วุ่นวายสับสน ใจที่วกวน ของคนในเมืองกรุง // Gathering up the stories, of chaos and confusion, and twisted hearts, of the people in the big city

คิดถึงแม่ขึ้นมา น้ำตามันก็ไหล อยากกลับไป ซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่ // When I miss you, the tears stream down, I want to go back, and collapse in your lap

ในอ้อมกอด รักจริง ที่เที่ยงแท้ ในอกแม่ สุขเกินใคร // In your embrace, true love, unconditional, at your breast, more contented than anyone

อีกไม่นาน ลูกจะกลับไป หอบดวงใจ เจ็บช้ำเกินทน // Not long now, your child will return, hauling his heart, insufferably bruised

เก็บเรื่องราว วุ่นวายสับสน กับบางคน ที่ใจไม่แน่นอน // Gathering up the stories, of chaos and confusion, about someone, who I'm not sure about

ลืมเรื่องบางคน ไปซบลงที่ตรงตักแม่ // I'll forget her, and collapse in your lap

What a beautiful song. My translation hardly does it justice, but you'll have to take my word for it if you don't read Thai. Or you can just listen and appreciate the sentiment. Thanks again, Todd!

Personaly I find it very difficult to distinguish ก ค sounds especially in fast spoken Thai. To my ear the ก  sound is closer to kh than it is to g, so I transliterate it as k  

I find it funny that a lot of farangs who think they speak good Thai, say the ก sound with a hard g, something I have never heard a Thai say. The  sound is an inbetween sound between g and kh, and although some people may hear it as g, I find it sounds closer to kh. That's my personal theory.

Technically you're right--ก is closer to kh than it is to g, in that it's just a kh but without the puff of air. Many English speakers (myself included), though, think it sounds more like an English g. But Lazy Yogi is right too--they are two different sounds.

Are you sure that isn't the engrish word "pundit" just back translated into thai, from what ever language it originally came from?

Quite sure.

Given that Thai culture has far deeper linguistic, cultural, and historical ties with India than Anglo culture does, one would assume the Thai usage came straight from India, along with the myriad of other Sanskrit/Pali words in Thai. And the Thai meaning (scholar) is much closer to the original Sanskrit/Pali meaning than the English meaning (commentator).

It's also a part of many school names: มหาวิทยาลัยธุรกิจบัณฑิตย์ (Dhurakij Pundit University) in Bangkok is one prominent example.

Edit: Have no idea why there's no paragraph breaks there--they show up in the editor. Had an awful time trying to get this post up, I was trying to get the Wikipedia quotes in quote boxes, and it kept telling me "The number of opening quote tags doesn't match the number of closing quote tags", though I counted them and they all matched. So anyway, I finally just deleted the quote tags and it let the post through, but it looks like this... readable enough I hope.

G/f phones you and asks yoo nai?    where are you?   

You reply, phom yoo (tee) baan,         I am at home       Use of tee, most farangs are taught to ask, hong naam yoo tee nai? wheres the toilet?  Most Thais omit the tee and the question becomes, hong naam yoo nai? answer  hong naam yoo nan, toilet is there as opposed to hong naam yoo tee nan.

This is a different sort of "yoo" than the continuous "yoo", though. The "yoo" in "yoo tee nai/yoo nai" is equivalent to the verb "be" (as in be in a place) in English.

khun yoo tee nai = Where are you? ----> pom yoo tee baan = I'm at home.

While many Thais do omit the "tee" (ที่) when talking about the location of things, it does sound rather abrupt to ask "noun yoo nai"--I'd recommend that any beginning students of Thai use the full form "noun yoo tee nai" to ask where things are, at least until you get a handle on when and where it's acceptable to drop the "tee".

G/f asks tam arai yoo?                      what are you doing?

You reply ,phom fang dontri yoo     I am listening to music

This is a good example of using "yoo" to express present-moment continuity of an action. (A rather different use from "is/am/are" yoo above.)

You are sitting at your desk actively typing your great epic novel and a friend walks in and asks you what you are doing. The appropriate response would be: Pom gamlang khian nangsue (ผมกำลังเขียนหนังสือ) "I am writing a book". Using gamlang here expresses that you are physically doing it right now this very moment.

On the other hand if the same friend had seen you on the street and asked you what you have doing for work lately you would have more aptly have responded "Pom khian nang sue yoo" (ผมเขียนหนังสืออยู่) which implies you have been working on the book for some time and are still doing it but not necessarily at that exact moment.

I'm not sure it's quite as cut and dried as that... I think "verb yoo" and "gamlang verb" are generally interchangeable, even in your examples, though "gam lang" seems rather more formal to me. In fact, in those examples, I think it would be fine to just say what you're doing without "gam lang" or "yoo"--I'd only use them if you felt you needed to emphasize the continuity of the action, you don't have to use them with everywhere that we'd use the present continuous tense in English.

Incidently, the phrase "khian nang-seu/เขียนหนังสือ" (lit. write book) doesn't necessarily mean writing an actual book (though it could)--it's often used to refer to any kind of formal, sit-down-at-your-desk writing activity. Some other phrases with "nang-seu/หนังสือ" that don't necessarily require a book's presence are "sawn nang-seu/สอนหนังสือ" (lit. teach book), which simply means to teach (as in a formal place of learning), and its counterpart, "rian nang-seu/เรียนหนังสือ" (lit. study book), which simply refers to the activity of formal learning or study.

I have always understood 'gamlang ja' to mean something like "I was just about to..." or when used with "going" to mean "I'm on my way to..."

Hence "Pom gamlang ja bpai sanam bin" would mean 'I'm on my way to the airport' or 'I was just about to go to the airport'.

I think you're correct here. Another way of putting it would be "on the verge of starting", so "I was just about to" or "I'm about to" are fine translations. In many situations, I think "I'm getting ready to" or "I'm going to" work well as well.

To summarize for the OP:

gam lang verb = is/am/are verb-ing

gam lang ja verb = about to verb

But both can be, and often are, left out when the speaker feels the "tense" of the action is clear to the listener!

So when would I use gam ja?

There is no "gam ja"--it's "gam lang ja".