mancub

Oh sigh.

Folks, CMK and Nisa are actually spot on. You may not agree and that's fine however I do this for a living in the airline sector and work very closely with the TAT, hoteliers in Thailand and all across Asia. What is reported is as good as it's going to get for any TB/CVB.

I have no issue with the data -+10%.

Oh sigh.

Folks, CMK and Nisa are actually spot on. You may not agree and that's fine however I do this for a living in the airline sector and work very closely with the TAT, hoteliers in Thailand and all across Asia. What is reported is as good as it's going to get for any TB/CVB.

I have no issue with the data -+10%.

Disappointed ,,,,,from the headline ,I thought they were dumb enough to actually be selling the stuff from the back of the pick-up , bit like pineapples ! Seems they were only moving it down to BKK ....

They should start arming the deer in my opinion.

Why would you clog up this thread with an anti hunting post? Do you think hunting is dangerous or in some way immoral? Hunting is a sport. I don't like soccer. So what. Are a lot of folks hurt in soccer riots? Sure. Do you stop soccer?

Oh my lord. Comparing hunting to soccer? On the soccer pitch you have two teams competing against each other with the same equipment, same number of players, and same playing field. Where does a deer have an advantage?

And no, I am not an anti-hunting person. I enjoy occasional spearfishing, eating what I catch in the ocean while free diving. Send a deer hunter in the wild with a knife then.

Football hooliganism is a side effect of the game as are hunting accidents a side effect of hunting. Hunting you come home with dinner I don't think soccer gives you that advantage. It is simply silly to suggest arming a deer. So I won't suggest arming a soccer player. Although.....

I managed a very successful business in Thailand with over 200 employees in 1968 . But like I said I would not try and give you any information.

TG's 75% load factor is actually very good given the industry and given the fact the domestic network could fit on a postage stamp with major LCC competition, short routes in a leisure market are very difficult to monetise year round. Thai Smile will have little impact except major savings on rotations of older aircraft that can be better utilised.

12% increase in revenue will be come from pro-rates from Star carriers especially on the FRA/NRT/SYD routes, no need to hit the panic button that fares will increase on point to point. TG's ASK's & RPK's are also improving to almost the same levels as BA/LH.

Now that they right-sized the US market I see a much better future for TG.

Edit: I forgot the point of the article the 6B to 3B to 700m is the aircraft retro fit programme being fast tracked, Thai Smile, LAX flight via SEL is under performing for obvious reasons.

Where are they all going then? it certainly aint Krabi/Ao Nang/Koh Lanta.

The continued increase in passengers at Krabi airport and their adding a second terminal to double the the passenger capacity of the airport must be due to people getting on the wrong planes. I'm guessing once they get there (by accident) they decide to stay for a spell since when I was there a few weeks ago most of the resorts I checked were fully booked on Koh Lanta.

Edit: I suspect in 2012 Krabi airport will near double the passenger traffic numbers from 2008.

2008 --- 650,000 passengers

2009 --- 679.000 passengers

2010 ---- 837,000 passengers

2011 ---- 989,000 passengers

http://en.wikipedia....rts_in_Thailand

My point being that, just because air passenger numbers may increase , it doesn't necessarily follow that these pax are filling up the resorts and hotel rooms. Krabi feels much quieter this December than last year , but , of course , the views of people directly involved , cannot be considered when opposed by the weight of the mighty wikipedia !>

"If the thread is about Pattaya having a flourishing sex industry please let me know. I thought it was about tourism. I have lived in Pattaya a number of years and have noticed single gentlemen from India almost never live alone in one hotel room. Invariably they share a room with a number of other men. Anyone else with knowledge of the hotel industry from Bangkok or Pattaya will also confirm for you that Indian men usually share rooms with multiple occupants."

Anyone with a knowledge of the hotel industry will confirm that usual room occupancy is "double " ie 2 or "triple " , apart from hostels with dorm rooms of course . Search any of the 1000+ Bangkok hotels offered on Agoda and you will see this . Doubt very much that hotels catering for tourists would be happy with 4 or 5 single males ,of any nationality . sharing a room !!! But you are the expert on that , especially where Indian gentlemen are concerned.

I would argue that so called "sex tourism " plays a large part in the economy of Pattaya....so it is of relevance . You claim to have lived there , perhaps you could enlighten us with your opinion of it's significance or deny it's existence ?

Average stay 9 days (Nisa's quoted figure), 23,000,000 million visitors, so on an average of 1.5 people to a room (guessing, because there are very few rooms that permit more than 2), and by far the greatest majority of rooms would be occupied by either one or two people, that's 155,250,000 hotel room days per year, or 425,342 per day. Would there be 425,342 hotel rooms in Thailand?? It must be taken into account that not all rooms are occupied every night due to seasonal peaks/troughs, so the real number for 23,000,000 million tourists staying for 9 days at 1.5 person occupancy could be (guessing again) 30% higher, but perhaps more, so at least 552,945!! Would there be 552,945 hotel rooms in Thailand? This becomes more preposterous by the second.

I'm not one of those who criticize Thailand, its government, and people for anything and everything, and have been known to criticize those very criticizers, but 23,000,000 million tourists is not a realistic figure, and I'm with kohphangan on this.

If you think only 2 Indians stay in a hotel room in Thailand you are a bit daft eh?

So now you're an authority on the lifestyles of other races also then ?? Perhaps you would care to show some statisics to back up your daft comment ?

http://www.thaivisa....ia#entry4338808

Thai Visa is an excellent source of all kinds of information. And living in Pattaya for years and years also helped.

Living in Pattaya for years and years? ...and you still don't accept that it's a haven for the flourishing sex industry ? Your credibility is beginning to slip .

Questioning the veracity of Standard and Poor's is questioning the entire international banking system and way beyond the capacity of this thread and you. Sorry you are way off topic and I won't respond.

Ahh no it isn't, and considering the news item is reporting on S&Ps outlook for Thailand my issue raised is important and needs to be discussed within this thread. You are hiding behind big statements with no substance. i mean really questioning S&P is questioning the entire international banking system, who are you trying to fool here?

You have an emotional view of the Thai economy and this shows in the way you post. your emotions cloud your posts and remove objectivity from them, not only in this thread.

Your 2nd post says it all, "But until that you just join the legion of sour grapes posters who don't like Thailand doing good." just because we question things and have different opinions based on the information provided does not mean we want Thailand to end up in any kind of economic or financial trouble. It is 1 thing to want something and another thing to interpret data to show which way it is heading. This is partly why people can no longer debate with you anymore. I thought you can add value and i did try hopefully in the future you won't be so 1 dimensional. i guess i'd compare debating economic issues with you to debating austerity with a Greek, it just can't be done rationally.

i have tried to persist with you but since you cannot debate objectively and your emotions cloud everything i am no longer wasting my time with your posts until things change, Best of luck hopefully you stop alienating yourself in this forum as debate is a good thing and you can contribute quality if you want to.

The thread is about a news article released by S&P. If you don't trust S&P as a rating agency there is nothing to talk to you about. You are on the lunatic fringe. Please list one major bank anywhere in the world that does not rely on S&P for information.

Average stay 9 days (Nisa's quoted figure), 23,000,000 million visitors, so on an average of 1.5 people to a room (guessing, because there are very few rooms that permit more than 2), and by far the greatest majority of rooms would be occupied by either one or two people, that's 155,250,000 hotel room days per year, or 425,342 per day. Would there be 425,342 hotel rooms in Thailand?? It must be taken into account that not all rooms are occupied every night due to seasonal peaks/troughs, so the real number for 23,000,000 million tourists staying for 9 days at 1.5 person occupancy could be (guessing again) 30% higher, but perhaps more, so at least 552,945!! Would there be 552,945 hotel rooms in Thailand? This becomes more preposterous by the second.

I'm not one of those who criticize Thailand, its government, and people for anything and everything, and have been known to criticize those very criticizers, but 23,000,000 million tourists is not a realistic figure, and I'm with kohphangan on this.

So, you don't have a clue on how many hotels are in Thailand, or the number of families and people sharing hotel rooms or any idea how many visitors stay at condos, at apartments, with friends or Thai family/spouse to mention just a few things ... As well, you have taken a number that relates to foreign visitors and decided them all to be tourists and then go on to use all of this ignorance to actual facts and figures to try and dispute numbers that are accepted by international agencies and governments and are fairly easy to verify and whose break down in numbers from country of origin of the visitor to the numbers of which border crossing they used to enter. You ignore looking at things such as the increase number of international visitors coming through the main airport and use an average stay for all visitors assuming they all stay in hotels not considering that this average is derived from all foreign visitors including those from bordering countries who don't spend a night or stay in rented rooms with many other of their countrymen as well as those who stay here long term (such as with wife) in condos, apartments and houses but continue to leave and enter the country.

Is this about right?

Average stay 9 days (Nisa's quoted figure), 23,000,000 million visitors, so on an average of 1.5 people to a room (guessing, because there are very few rooms that permit more than 2), and by far the greatest majority of rooms would be occupied by either one or two people, that's 155,250,000 hotel room days per year, or 425,342 per day. Would there be 425,342 hotel rooms in Thailand?? It must be taken into account that not all rooms are occupied every night due to seasonal peaks/troughs, so the real number for 23,000,000 million tourists staying for 9 days at 1.5 person occupancy could be (guessing again) 30% higher, but perhaps more, so at least 552,945!! Would there be 552,945 hotel rooms in Thailand? This becomes more preposterous by the second.

I'm not one of those who criticize Thailand, its government, and people for anything and everything, and have been known to criticize those very criticizers, but 23,000,000 million tourists is not a realistic figure, and I'm with kohphangan on this.

If you think only 2 Indians stay in a hotel room in Thailand you are a bit daft eh?

Mayor of Pattaya's view ...as quoted from TAT's news website , special feature :

The following is the full text of Mr. Ithiphol’s statement:

Pattaya is widely regarded as one of Asia's favourite seaside resorts; with something for everyone; it is increasingly known as the "Thai Riviera". Pattaya caters to tourists from all cultures and walks of life, providing a safe, relaxing, fun–filled stay amongst the white sandy beaches, world-class hotels, wide variety of local and international restaurants, as well as shopping centres and markets, featuring local OTOP handicrafts to global luxury labels. In addition, with its 30+ international standard golf courses, there are challenges for golfers, no matter their handicap.

LOL, do you know the mayor of Pattaya? Lets just put it this way, you are picking a strange Thai politician to all of a sudden have faith in their public words. Pattaya like any city has a lot to offer beyond a reputation it may have but ridiculous to want to suggest the vast majority of foreign visitors are going to Pattaya for the above reasons as opposed to the adult entertainment.

Just formal conformation that at birth, all Thai polititions had the nappies put on the wrong end.

I have always thought that at birth the doctor/midwife threw the wrong bits away. I suspect that when Chalerm was born, he was so ugly that the doctor slapped his mother instead.

These stories are usually followed by lots of posts making vacuous assumptions as to what happened or indeed why it happened.

But assumptions aside, we really need to learn from all these tragic situations. What measures can we take to prevent this happening to us. Let's face it, none of us want to meet with such a grisly end.

Stop renting prostitutes off the streets and taking them back home for sex might be a good place to start.

Also, never forget that a Lady Boy is actually a young fit strong athletic lad schooled in Muay Thai who can physically break the neck of, or in this case, cut the neck of the older, weaker victim.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Perhaps I should write a 'How to ...' guide for Pattaya. You know, cover the usual holiday stuff, best beach area, freshest papaya salad etc etc and also, not get murder by strangers you rent off the beach.

Just a thought only in my experience the people you may see at other tables in the restaurant or while collecting your laundry don't ever end up in your own home.

Why is that? you may ask. It's because we are wise enough not to invite complete strangers back to our homes.

Ask yourself while travelling down to Foodland and sharing the baht bus with 8 other travellers just how many you invited back home. Unless it was for casual sex I'd say your answer is none.

There you go then. Wrecklessness beyond belief and a life thrown away.

As for all you well meaning Colombo's out there .................... the lap top was removed most likely because of what it contained. The damaging evidence on it meant it had to be removed. The cable was not important.

It's called a clue.

It's supported by the fact that the money was not taken but left as it too was not important to the Thai fleeing the murder scene.

Finally, sex with 75 pound women usually means if it ll goes wrong you stand a chance of fighting them off. Sex with young lads ....... so people tell me and I do read a lot ................. they tend to be that bit stronger, younger, fitter, faster ............

I think you get it.

Maybe you do misunderstand me .....I think you'll find that I have neither denied nor contested the figures from TAT and have not accused anyone of being untruthful, merely stating that TAT are the only body privvy to the data , so you have no avenue to dispute their claims .... You either accept and believe what they declare or you don't !

Some clearly prefer to believe everything that's presented to them , others like to question .....doesn't make you necessarily right or wrong either way .

In other words you don't dispute the numbers you are only pointing out that they may be disputed. No offense intended but you are being silly. Tell me what are the odds that a person who agreed with the numbers would have written what you wrote?

Very few in this country do believe TATs figures are correct/ most wouldn't care a toss as they have no idea about tourism. If it was ever possible to do an accurate read out, then it could be argued about. Because so many of arrival cards are not telling us who they are and what reason they have to cross the border/airport...or the length of stay/transit, work, cross shopping,visa runs,business trips etc. then we have the predicted figures a year in advance, then which countries are visiting most, and how much they are spending every day---bullsh#t

Now I visited south Jomptien beach 4 days ago, sat in a deck chair, the smell from the sea was not pleasant and floating on top of the water was plastic condoms milk cartons, you name it, not just in a 1 place but the kilometer i could sea, also the sand was full of the stuff washed up. Laying amongst the tip was russian tourists, and swimming in the sea.

Now TAT get off your rears and put pressure on the resorts. Tourists will not come back if they see this,and you will not be able to give good future figures out. I live here and this is disgusting and the worst by far i have ever seen the sea here, Koh Lahn is paradise to this.

While everyone is welcome to their opinion, you should consider that numbers are not simply derived by arrival cards (not to mention their are departure cards whose numbers correlate with the arrival card) and that average amount of money spent has nothing do with these cards. Based on the indisputable fact that foreign visitors to Thailand continues to increase at a rapid trend and that a significant number of visitors are repeat visitors and here to enjoy the beautiful resort beaches Thailand has to offer, it is safe to assume not many are looking for or finding condemns floating on the water. We all choose to see what we want to see and if tourists are looking for beautiful beaches and waters in Thailand then chances are they are not going to be visiting the areas adjacent to Pattaya were they will be more likely to run across such things as used condemns from their fellow foreign visitors headed to Pattaya for cheap thrills they can't find at home.

Just out of interest Nisa , as we're already off topic slightly ....how does TAT market Pattaya ,given the undisputable fact that it is a haven for disgusting foreign visitors and local sex workers ?

Just out of interest Nisa , as we're already off topic slightly ....how does TAT market Pattaya ,given the undisputable fact that it is a haven for disgusting foreign visitors and local sex workers ?

The new Central mall is the nicest in Thailand and attracts thousands of Thais from Bangkok every weekend as do the luxury hotels that are all over Pattaya. The only indisputable fact is you don't know much about Pattaya. You are ten years out of date.

Many people may also consider the new Termial 21 at Asoke as the nicest mall in Thailand . Maybe you don't much about Bangkok , but I won't declare it as an indisputable fact .

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they’re deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

The cause and effect needs to be linked in. You meet a lot of cowboys in Thailand who bring their untimely demises upon themselves.

Not the case every time of course. Jealousy, revenge, spite. There can be many factors for these outcomes.

You are so right, jackinbkk. I have been saying this for a long time.

Perhaps someone should create an unofficial guide explaining the DOs and Don`ts in Thailand?

The problem is; will they listen?

Just out of interest Nisa , as we're already off topic slightly ....how does TAT market Pattaya ,given the undisputable fact that it is a haven for disgusting foreign visitors and local sex workers ?

Maybe you do misunderstand me .....I think you'll find that I have neither denied nor contested the figures from TAT and have not accused anyone of being untruthful, merely stating that TAT are the only body privvy to the data , so you have no avenue to dispute their claims .... You either accept and believe what they declare or you don't !

Some clearly prefer to believe everything that's presented to them , others like to question .....doesn't make you necessarily right or wrong either way .

In other words you don't dispute the numbers you are only pointing out that they may be disputed. No offense intended but you are being silly. Tell me what are the odds that a person who agreed with the numbers would have written what you wrote?

Maybe you do misunderstand me .....I think you'll find that I have neither denied nor contested the figures from TAT and have not accused anyone of being untruthful, merely stating that TAT are the only body privvy to the data , so you have no avenue to dispute their claims .... You either accept and believe what they declare or you don't !

Some clearly prefer to believe everything that's presented to them , others like to question .....doesn't make you necessarily right or wrong either way .

Calm down, everybody! We all know how bans are handled in this country. "Ban" is only one of those words that get thrown around a lot. Just like "hub".

I'm not a nay sayer, and I've condemned those professional Thai bashers, the ones who don't believe anything good about Thailand, but I have to say this is fantasy.

Break down 23,000,000 to a daily figure, and it's 63,000 a day arriving!! Broken down to aircraft, that's 180 747's with 350 pax on each, not to capacity, but a decent load. I just can't believe it. Bearing in mind that there would be a lot of smaller aircraft from regional Asian centers, it would be 200+ aircraft inbound with only tourists bound for Thailand, and of course 200+ outbound, not taking into account transits.

I googled 'aircraft movements at Suvarnabhumi', came up with the actual airport site, http://www.suvarnabh...a_w_face_en.PDF, and a daily figure of 728 movements is mentioned. I've spent quite a bit of time in the airport over the years, odd hours, and I don't believe that there is, on average, a takeoff or landing every 2 and a bit minutes, not even close, maybe at a couple/few peak times, but not throughout the day.

Looking at the third column on that site, there was a grand total of 13.7 million disembarkations in 2010, but almost 3 million were Thais, international pax, and no doubt Thais returning from overseas. That's 10 million 'tourists', and it's difficult to believe that could go to 23 million in 3 years. There were a total of over 26 million embarkations and disembarkations, so perhaps they're counting twice??

Wikipedia shows the same figures as the TAT, and they also break it by country.

http://en.wikipedia....ism_in_Thaila

I'm not a nay sayer, and I've condemned those professional Thai bashers, the ones who don't believe anything good about Thailand, but I have to say this is fantasy.

Break down 23,000,000 to a daily figure, and it's 63,000 a day arriving!! Broken down to aircraft, that's 180 747's with 350 pax on each, not to capacity, but a decent load. I just can't believe it. Bearing in mind that there would be a lot of smaller aircraft from regional Asian centers, it would be 200+ aircraft inbound with only tourists bound for Thailand, and of course 200+ outbound, not taking into account transits.

I googled 'aircraft movements at Suvarnabhumi', came up with the actual airport site, http://www.suvarnabh...a_w_face_en.PDF, and a daily figure of 728 movements is mentioned. I've spent quite a bit of time in the airport over the years, odd hours, and I don't believe that there is, on average, a takeoff or landing every 2 and a bit minutes, not even close, maybe at a couple/few peak times, but not throughout the day.

Looking at the third column on that site, there was a grand total of 13.7 million disembarkations in 2010, but almost 3 million were Thais, international pax, and no doubt Thais returning from overseas. That's 10 million 'tourists', and it's difficult to believe that could go to 23 million in 3 years. There were a total of over 26 million embarkations and disembarkations, so perhaps they're counting twice??

Wikipedia shows the same figures as the TAT, and they also break it by country.

http://en.wikipedia....ism_in_Thaila

Asian visitors by country /numbers : 1 Japan , 2 Malaysia, 3 Korea ,4 China as of 2007 TAT website.

Judging by the number of Japanese- only/or orientated ( no pun intended) , karaoke bars ,massage parlours and go-go bars , I think a fair percentage of their tourists do actually make it to Pattaya .

I also wonder what percentage of Malaysians make quick repeat border runs to other less known Thai towns such as Danok /Sadao where they indulge in all manner of lewd activity not afforded them at home .

I"m not in a position to dispute "official" figures , but statistics can be presented in many ways.

And probably 22 million flying off from Thailand to other destinations. No tourists in Pattaya ( that is westerners ) and none up north, so where are they all hiding ????

Believe it or not most tourists/visitors don't come to Thailand to see the countries cesspool city or visit rice fields. Not to mention most farangs can't distinguish the country of origin of one Asian person or another.and it is Asians who make up the 4 out of 5 of the top countries visiting Thailand.