smileydude

It seems the level of cynicism/skepticism/negativism might be directly proportional to one's age here at TV.

Wandering around Siam, Lumpini, MBK or even Ratchaprasong is not as hazardous to one's safety as portrayed otherwise all those local hi-so protestors, young professionals and businessmen would not be out there participating. They are not that brave.

Chaeng-Watana, Laksi and Lardprao are a totally different story as it is well known the hard core elements congregate there but then again there's nothing for tourists to see there.

I think I saw it once at the entrance to the park. Tried to get 400 baht from me.

Probably the same one working at CMPO now. Except he developed a stroke and is now asking for the heads of foreign protestors.

Thailand has a Think Tank ? i know it has a lot of thick tanks but a thinking one ? hmmm a novelty

FYI: There are 6826 think tanks all over the world.

Thailand has 8 think tanks but the one quoted most often is TDRI because they focus on policy research unlike many US think tanks like Brookings Institution which tend to focus on international issues like politics, environmental etc. Most of the other Thai think tanks are located in Universities like ISIS and Sasin in Chula.

The only thick tanks I know of in Thailand are the PTP and Shin clan.

The farmers may actually be the downfall of PTP.

Their plight is legit and cannot be accused of having any agenda.

Hope they learned their lesson that promises by politicians are worthless.

The reason to scrap this scheme is simple.

It was implemented to make money and not necessarily benefit farmers, that was a guise.

Thaksin thought in all his cleverness that he could manipulate world rice prices by hoarding millions of tons of rice and when demand was beyond supply he could sell them at inflated prices. Of course he wanted to make commission on top of his scheme and at the same time guarantee rice prices for farmer = votes.

He forgot that India, Vietnam and other rice producing countries did not need to play by his rules thus they upped their production and world rice prices fell below the estimated 12000 baht/ton. Now the government needs to sell the rice at market rates of 7000 baht/ton which is better then letting the stocks rot in storage as advised by TDRI but they knew that if they did that they would not gain any profits and hardly raise enough money to pay off all the farmers (even though the guaranteed price to farmers was about 5700 baht/ton) with the remaining 6300 baht to be shared among those colluding in the scheme. They are holding on to the rice stocks out of greed and to hide their losses but rice has a limited shelf life unlike other commodities so Thaksin made a bad miscalculation.

Now hardworking but unpaid farmers and taxpayers are paying the penalty.

Subsidies are not necessarily a bad thing if the intention is to allow farmers time to increase their yield/acre efficiency versus costs to the point that they are competitive enough to survive in world markets. Japan is well known for subsidizing its agricultural industry. Once farmers have developed their competitiveness then subsidizes can gradually be reduced to zero until market mechanisms determine the prices. But in this case the rice subsidies are just a front for embezzling and should have never passed parliamentary scrutiny if the proper checks and balances (that are gravely lacking in Thailand) were in place.

Defiance by voting or not voting, this is going to be a very expensive nothing to the tune of 3800 million baht because due to legal technicalities the voting is likely to be anulled.

1. Article 108 states that Elections must be held on a SINGLE day nationwide: FAILED

28 constituencies had no candidates

9 constituencies could not hold elections

9 constituencies had problems in the election process and could not complete their jobs

many candidates had more NO VOTES then votes for them

2. Counting all Votes: FAILED

two million people registered for early voting but were unable to thus these votes cannot be counted on the actual day of voting.

Not being able to include these votes technically is unfair?

What I see is strategic jousting by those with special interests utilizing legal knowledge and manipulating social sentiment.

The democratic process is just a shroud to hide behind.

I see no efforts to find common ground from both sides and trying to find win-win solutions.

Alot of what we see is just part of a charade. The real games are going on during back door negotiations.

Problem is many more people need to die and how much more money do we have to burn for nothing before we finally find a way out?

1. As a norm most uni girls are probably more likely to go for guys their age and I'm pretty sure most of the Farangs here on a long term basis (enough to form a relationship) are mostly not university age.

2. A generation/cultural thing: similar likes in music, movies, ease of communication slang, values and sexual compatibility.

3. Interracial dating as more common it is today then in the past and more so in certain countries will never be the norm so I'm guessing your observation is based on what you've seen perhaps?

Lately I've been noticing a lot more anti-Suthep comments on Thai Visa then anti-Thaksin. I'm guessing this stems from the fact that westerners abhor the fact that people have had their voting rights blocked, streets closed and that government facilities have been invaded and shutdown. I can understand this seems rather undemocratic and extreme and probably is in its strict sense.

But have we all forgotten who or what started this all?

A very well written article that offers insight into the origins of the problems plaguing Thailand's politics was published here on Thai Visa and I'd like to recommend it in case some missed it:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/696744-history-shows-a-way-out-of-the-thai-conflict/

These are trying times for Thai's. Never in our history has the populace been so divided.

Some believe that extraordinary times require extraordinary measures that cannot be solved by purely democratic means.

Egypt and many of the Arab Spring movements that overthrew tyrants come to mind.

Even in those cases people were divided and fighting continues till this day. You will always have two sides.

Every side thinks they are right and fighting for a cause.

Who would fight for something they know is wrong? (unless they are mercs or stand to lose their power)

The average red shirt fights against inequality, underrepresentation, and oppression by the elite.

The average protestor today fights against tyranny, corruption and the abuse of power.

Both groups are not the problem.

The problem is our politicians. They never really intend to solve problems but bicker over the cake.

Can we not have them all meet for the next parliamentary session on a cruise liner and then blow up the ship in the middle of the water? Problem solved.

How do you identify perpetrators when your ducking and hiding behind walls and barriers???

If there were new major parties with fresh faces at the helm, the nation would be energised to vote, and turnout would be extremely high. Everybody in the mainstream is sick and tired of the same handful of mummified relics and cartoon characters that are offered at the vote-box. It is no different to marketing, if you are still trying to sell hobnail boots when your competitors are selling modern running-shoes. Don't expect people to queue up to buy those medieval clomps, when they know that the world has moved on since then.

There are people like Dr. Supachai Panitchpakdi former WTO director, or Anand Panyarachun, a former prime minister who have been approached and are capable of leading the country but the problem is they don't want to join the current political parties or get involved in politics because they know the basics of politics requires funding sources. These funding sources vary from lobbyists, special interest groups or powerful business families who all want something in return (think government construction projects, subsidies, licenses etc.) They know that if they get involved in politics their reputations will be tarnished, enemies made and personal lives subject to mudslinging because there will be jockeying for positions and continued corruption from ministers seeking to collect on their investments (party funding).

How do you win votes without populist policies? All those populist policies are losing money and where do you get the money to fund those losses in order to maintain your voter base?

Thai's call it "putting the monkey on your back" or "seeking lice to put on your head".

Its a thankless job at best.

The most I can hope for is the less greedier of two evils.

Because all the teachers with good personalities were able to find jobs in their homelands perhaps?

Or possibly teachers consider themselves the more educated folk among westerners in Thailand assuming everyone else is the stereotypic sexpats?

Everyone has their weaknesses to prejudice, bias and even racism often unknowingly.

To be fair maybe you happened to meet alot of weary jaded expats but lets not be too judgemental on teachers or anyone otherwise we're no different.

Keep an open mind and maybe you'll see that people are just different in their levels of friendliness and that they meant no disrespect. Difficult to judge someone's character based on no exchange of dialogue.

Why would he have a grudge? He likes the publicity.

Chuwit is just like the dog he has on his election posters. (Bull terrier)

He's good as an attack dog like Chalerm if he's on your side. Unleash him and he goes rabid. Lots of bark and tenaciousness on his bite.

Great for showmanship but otherwise his substance and strategy is limited.

Sorry if I've offended any dog lovers.

Chuwit is just like the dog he has on his election posters. (Bull terrier)

He's good as an attack dog like Chalerm if he's on your side. Unleash him and he goes rabid. Lots of bark and tenaciousness on his bite.

Great for showmanship but otherwise his substance and strategy is limited.

Sorry if I've offended any dog lovers.

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

No reform without an electoral mandate.

Suthep is not even the leader of the Democrats, he wasn't popular enough among his own party to lead it. So if the yellows don't trust him to lead the party, why should Thai people trust him to lead the country?

No fair electoral mandate can be achieved while the interim government of PTP is in power.

I wouldn't vote for Suthep either. Hopefully he keeps his word and does not continue politics.

People don't trust an individual. They trust the process of reform once they see it.

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Many of us are on neither side, but we support the right to vote.

from globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

listen up cos it's the definitive article

sparks of the tempest

..

indeed

i'm off to a prayer meet, namaste

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

My question is how can the red shirts continue to support a leader (Thaksin) who has been convicted of corruption in several cases, attempted to pass an Amnesty law (which has been ruled as unconstitutional), and concocted the rice-pledging scheme at the loss of billions of baht for taxpayers be seen as having the competence, good governance and legitimacy to lead Thailand? I'm neither saying the Democrats or Suthep are competent either but how can you really justify Thakinsomics? The red shirts need to support someone else other then PTP (Thaksins) who have a better track record to lead their cause so that the other side cannot justify their need to uprise.

Isn't it the same trick everywhere? Obama, the hero of the small guy under who wealth disparity has reach new records and who goes on 15 million $ holidays.As long as people believe that a person who wants to subjugate you and rob you (taxation) has your best interest at hart, people are ripe for the picking. So you as a taxation proponent know the answer. Why do you think an entity with the right to take people's wealth and land and has theforce to back that, care about the people they can dominate.?

The trick is the same everywhere and you make some good points.

The thing is the world is not perfect and you try to pick the lesser of two evils.

Taxation of land and wealth in the US is high but it does not take away your wealth per se but is a mechanism that distributes wealth. I cannot definitively answer your last question but maybe Scandinavian countries with their high taxation rates and correspondingly high standards of living, safety stats, and low disparity of income can provide clues about how good governance and accountability CAN benefit the population if led by people with ethics and a clear conscience who must answer to the voters.

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Personally I have nothing against the red-shirt ideology, that is wealth should be more evenly distributed thereby narrowing the gap between the have's and have-nots and also reducing the influence of the entitled. I am all for inheritance tax and land tax as these are the two significant areas that the have's propagate their control of wealth and power. My question is how can the red shirts continue to support a leader (Thaksin) who has been convicted of corruption in several cases, attempted to pass an Amnesty law (which has been ruled as unconstitutional), and concocted the rice-pledging scheme at the loss of billions of baht for taxpayers be seen as having the competence, good governance and legitimacy to lead Thailand? I'm neither saying the Democrats or Suthep are competent either but how can you really justify Thakinsomics? The red shirts need to support someone else other then PTP (Thaksins) who have a better track record to lead their cause so that the other side cannot justify their need to uprise.

OK .. here's the pic.

..... but I also tend to think the gun in the bag is a Travor

this is supposedly two gents from Cambodian Brigade 43 at Prey Vihar

I find it very interesting that the armies of Thailand and Cambodia have both acquired the Israeli made Tavor's. Conveniently they accept magazines from M-16's the previous standard army weapon in Thailand but not Cambodia (think Russian/Chinese made AK-47's).

So I guess since leaders of both countries sleep in the same bed got a 2 for 1 deal?

And it does make for convenient gun smuggling compatibility at the borders.

Fact: In over 3400 hundred years of documented history we've only seen 250 years of world peace.

We are now witnessing human behavior first hand.

Look at whats happening in the Ukraine, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sierre Leone etc.

What happening in Thailand pales in comparison but it does show humans find it easier to hate and that its much easier to incite emotions of hatred then love. Politicians and special interest groups seemed to have found that to be a convenient mechanism to manipulate us.

If there is ever going to be a post apocalyptic world we're probably to blame.

Where is the Police and the Army?

Usually the perpetuators are from the police and/or army.

Well from the twitter pic, he does seem to be the Suthep guard.

From the video I translated, she is saying, he is both the bomber and the shooter:

An end result, I don't see any Suthep regalia, I think he's a pro-democracy protestor

Guards are likely to be ex-military/ex police trained to use assault rifles. Shooting an assault rifle from a bag requires some skills. Both sides are armed as no one likes to be a sitting duck or feel vulnerable.

The point is who started the shooting. From the videos it seems the protestors were fired upon first and thus retaliated. The guards appeared to be taking up defensive positions. Since most of the media were concentrated around the protest group they caught the retaliation on film. Too bad nobody filmed from the direction the guards were aiming at as who would in their right mind run towards bullets no? And of course if you instigated the firing you would be wise to remain stealthy so the clips only show one side of the story.

But didn't Suthep say that they have no arms, only "bare hands"? What are the Suthep militias doing walking around with assault rifles in a city like Bangkok?

Nothing justifies a Suthep militia out on the street.

Of course he has to say that. Just like Obama says he is not always aware of what the NSA is up to.

Its called Plausible Deniability.

Wikipedia:

Plausible deniability is a term coined by the CIA in the early 1960s to describe the withholding of information from senior officials in order to protect them from repercussions in the event that illegal or unpopular activities by the CIA became public knowledge.

This thread is showing some encouraging signs... judging by the number of "likes" for posts strongly disaproving Abhisit and the Dem's behavior, compared with the small number of "likes" for posts in his favor.

Like in the Thai society, it proves that it is only a small minority that supports the anti-democratic dirty moves of Suthep, the Dems and their yellow followers.

In the long run they cannot win anything anyway.

It is just a pity that the country must pass such a difficult period only because of some power seeking individuals.

Abhisit not voting? No problem. If he disappears from the political scene forever... even better !

But preventing the other people to cast their votes is clearly criminal.

I disagree as I don't think the demographics of the population here on Thai Visa Forum represent Thai's.

I sense a very strong western belief that voting is the best way to express democracy.

I agree in principle but if the system does not have checks and balances like for example a Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) as they have in Canada and the US the current government can ram thru any spending it likes as long as they control the majority of seats. This leads to bad governance and corruption. That is the issue here. Reform before elections.

Suthep has an agenda, that is to completely rid Thailand of Thaksin's influence and his cronies.

I think its rather unrealistic and extreme as you cannot get rid of all the red shirt ideologists and more importantly it does not address the widening income gap and discontent.

We really need to find common ground and start from there. You can't rid the country of nor suppress either side. You can improve good governance and accountability through reform of the system but alot of people are missing the point and gravitating towards hatred for certain individuals.

Hopefully this is the storm before the quiet.

Where is the Police and the Army?

Usually the perpetuators are from the police and/or army.

Well from the twitter pic, he does seem to be the Suthep guard.

From the video I translated, she is saying, he is both the bomber and the shooter:

An end result, I don't see any Suthep regalia, I think he's a pro-democracy protestor

Guards are likely to be ex-military/ex police trained to use assault rifles. Shooting an assault rifle from a bag requires some skills. Both sides are armed as no one likes to be a sitting duck or feel vulnerable.

The point is who started the shooting. From the videos it seems the protestors were fired upon first and thus retaliated. The guards appeared to be taking up defensive positions. Since most of the media were concentrated around the protest group they caught the retaliation on film. Too bad nobody filmed from the direction the guards were aiming at as who would in their right mind run towards bullets no? And of course if you instigated the firing you would be wise to remain stealthy so the clips only show one side of the story.