blaze

If you think that Thaksin was the only one involved in that you really have not paid any attention all. Names a little closer to the current seat of power were just as complicit.

Nice of you to admit that he was involved at all, I was beginning to think that he could do no wrong, according to your posts.

Now see if he'll admit that he was the chief architect of the war, initiated it, supervised it, and claimed credit for its eventual "victory" when he boldly announced "all drugs have been eradicated".

I would like to see him prosecuted for his role in the drug wars-- I do believe that the deaths that resulted were not gang on gang-- IF there is evidence that he ordered the killings- I personally believe that he was smart enough to skirt around direct orders-- and leave underlings out to dry-- that is a problem of law- and perhaps his misguided approach to the quick fix-. But there have been ample opportunities to prosecute him-- and why is it that nobody- from the Sarayud gov't-- from the Abhisit gov't has seen fit to do so?

I don't know if you were in thailand at the time- but this was the single most univerally popular undertaking of his rule.

And as has been suggested- he was actively encouraged by the upper most levels of thai 'society'.

The war on drugs offends us farangs-- but it did not offend the thais- even his political enemies-- (their complaint at the time was that he had not been sufficiently thorough).

And you only have to read a few posts about suspected drug dealers to realize how politicized the farangs are about this-- many shrilling the loudest about due process and compassion- are at the forefront of the hang 'em 'high brigade when it comes to a suspected dealer caught at their kids' school.

Does no photos of people breaking the law include people who umm let's say, declared themselves PM??

Oh wait, that's not a crime anymore lol

And the quote ' when the media report, people ask why the government isn't taking action'

Yes General, where is the action, you don't want the media to do their job as it shows your total incompetence!

Treason was a capital offence until the army changed the law with tanks and stuff. On the media thing, he's making it worse with his Lt Frank Drebben line of ''Nothing to see here, nothing to see...move along.''

I thought he would like Thaksin's face in the press as it gives him and supporters an excuse. ''Yeah the economy is a mess, martial law is in place, tourist numbers down, democracy is over, the elite are in control again, we're anti corruption and just happen to be multi millionaires, eating a sanswich can get you arrested, there is no academic freedom making Thai degrees even more worthless than they already were, we're getting slagged off by the international community over the lack of free elections and poor human rights, we're indoctrinating the kids at school, we're gonna end free healthcare and payments to the elderly, an Admiral with no relevant qualifications is the Education Minister (not great with a curriculum, but boy he can get those kids to march and chant!), xenophobia is the new black, all this may be a big issue.....but....but...The Shins!...The Shins...''

And from the cheap seats at the Thai Visa Forum- a bunch of guys in toques and galloshes-- 'goddam right- we hate shins- we hate shins..'

(t shirts emblazoned- 'education: the truth will set you free'.= with a picture of a caged buffalo wearing a red cap).

And the lights are going out-- all over thailand.

I predict that shortly there will be a ban on mentioning his name or posting articles about him here on TVF ?

Who? Thaksin or the PM – or both?

Both

How's the somtam-- good huh? well everything is good. good good good. Are you happy- I sure am happy.

OH- I sure hate Thaksin - don't you? Yep- good somtam-- good good.

Whatever Tony Blair hopes about the election in Thailand, it is not his business to make such suggestion.

Let Thai people do whatever the best for them. Why are all the Western people putting pressures on the Thai government.

Leave them alone.

Been to Iran lately- Cuba of ten years ago? NOrth Korea? Serbia until only a few years ago--

The west left them alone. Believe me- anyone caring about this country had better hope the west does not sever ties.

Do all Thais agree with you? that they want the west to butt out? How do we/you know that? Your Happiness polls? You don't have elections to guage public sentement-- so just maybe you are being a bit presumptive in speaking for the nation.

Maybe not everybody in Thailand agrees with your concept of inclusive government.

Or should we discount them-- as perhaps you do!

How far are you and your neighbors prepared to go it --alone

Busy body tony. Thai have democracy the thai way. Nothing to do with farang; especially British.

There's only one Democracy,the Universal way or none at all,which ones yours?

Suriya

assuming you understand the concept of 'citizen'-- does Thai democracy provide equal opportunity for all citizens to participate in the shaping of the nation?

And the emphasis-- is on- as it has been from the time of the Greeks- ALL CITIZENS.

Does it?

and if not- by what standards do you call it a democracy-- (kind of like calling a snow shovel a brand muffin=-- ?)

And in Burkina Fasao- from the gov't press release: the UN envoy congratulates the General on his coup-- and advises him to broadcast his emminence and purity of heart to the Assembly

(and in fact, the UN envoy pulled no punches-- return to democracy or face sanctions!!!)

bUT- spin will not be lost on the gullible. For god's sake- think: who summarized this meeting? Does anybody seriously think that this press release actually captures the tone and substance of the encounter?

Could it have been other than a PR slot for the good General-- Does anybody on this board think that Tony Blair- like him or not (I don't) came without a full knowledge of the context for this coup?

This, in addition to already erasing Thaksin from kids school books, national reconciliation indeed.

The General is both envious and jealous of Thaksin.

"The main difference between envy and jealousy is that envy is an emotion related to coveting what someone else has, while jealousy is the emotion related to fear that something you have will be taken away by someone else."

Envious of Thaksin's enduring mega popularity.

Jealous that Thaksin will, in due course, take back government.

Ban, censor, suppress, threaten, harass, assault, demean, belittle and trample on the people as much as you like, this all only ends one way, with Thaksin Shinawatra back in the big chair and a great many Generals whiling away the hours in inactive posts.

Bomb, cheat, lie, steal, murder, mismanage the funds of the electorate and burn the Capital. Tell your Storm troops that you will be right there with them on the streets of Bangkok....but don't show up, add cowardice to his list of crimes. That Thaksin has the power to endear himself to the weak minded.

It's gonna bu@@er up this forum for you and several other rabid junta maniacs if you have no mention of Thaksin to vent your spleen at. Almost feel sorry for you.

Most of us will get on pretty much as we used to do. Most of us would not normally even mention Shins etc, but are baited with anti PM propaganda that brings out this Bad comparison and Shins brought back to compare----hadn't you noticed ??

Surely you don't think that the majority of TVF will have un savory posts re Thaksin every day, most are not interested much UNTIL !!!!

Why would anyone in the world oppose the type of government (we aren't allowed to name it) currently at play here, unless they were bought off by the Thaksin billions?

Says it all really. Post WW II the Germans were still taught about Adolf and what happened. Here, the Good General decides to wipe Thaksin History from the schoolbooks. It aint gonna work now or in the long term. Lotta pissed off people in the North and NE. A common thing i hear is "biding our time" and "quietly waiting"...

Yes-- and I have hard core yellow friends - sino Thai- Silom road - in Bangkok-- and they now are saying the same thing- to be honest, I was surprised. (at their naivity as much as anything).

I asked one- 'you won- so why the yellow shirt now?' He sneered, 'we won nothing-- we wait and see''.

(I suppose they expected- perhaps some of their more vocal supporters on this forum can enlighten us-- that the coup would hand power over to the PDRC - immediately.! and recognized that it was Suthep- and none other that has saved gthe nation!

Reconciliation? man -- this will be one for the books by the time it has played out.

It amazes me that "The Press" still refer to him as 'former Prime minister'..They should be using his current description..."Criminal Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra"

The Nation is a pro-Thaksin newspaper. Bit like some of the other newspapers in Thailand.

an intteresting observation tonbridge. I have never read a single pro-thaksin editorial or even news item in that paper- unless you mean that by not screeching for the beheading of a thaksin on a jungle path, they reveal their pro Shin sympathies-- is that it?

Seriously- of late, the Nation has been a bit more prudent in its support for the coup- though it continues to feature lots of 'success' stories and polls irrefutably indicating the near universal (inside as well as out of thailand) popularity of the junta, This does NOT indicate that they are pro Thaksin- they may be seeking an eventual return to democracy-- but--- to call them Pro-0 Thaksin?

If these volunteers are in fact, the infamous and despised Rangers (also volunteer) or perceived to be, it's going to get bloody down there.

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"The media should not publish pictures of anyone who has violated the law"

So no more 'finger pointing' pictures at the crime scene?

The PM seems to be somewhat worried about Mr. Thaksin.

I suggest he has good reason to be concerned about the paymaster's activities and those of the pt udd and red shirt leaders.

Why? IMHO at the right time, they will do everything they possibly can, including lying / spinning / false reports / whatever to try derail reform and to stop change, and in doing so hope they can maintain the status quo of old and they can discredit the current government.

Go general go and watch your back.

and if his draconian efforts to control information inspire a backlash even from those Democrats who had supported the coup-- so be it. Right Scorecard?

It is very difficult to predict how this will end. Prayuth has made his goals clear: to return Thailand to a time of purity- when everyone knew and accepted their place. (haven't we heard THOSE kind of ideals before!!)

His abhorance of conflict within society has even prompted his disgust with tv shows that show discord (usually of the marital nature). Of course this is a sell job on his part-- but many have not lived through the utpopian experiments utopian experiments of Europe and Russia in the first half of the 20th century- (the quest for 'a few good men' who incorporate all that is fine and noble in the nation, granted unrestricted power, can rescusitate the national soul...)

And these people- like some of the more zealous in the PDRC-- or the advocates of Dhammocracy-- may just believe that pies in skies are for the having- it just takes the right leader to bring them to earth. They will accept no compromise, I fear- certainly not one that would return Thailand to the prospect of being governened by a party elected by the rabble- a system where it's not who you know- but how effectively you can compete that will determine your lot. where laws are taken seriously-- and apply to one and all with equal force--- despite the color of the shirt or the well placed cousin.

and how long will the rabble accept constraints on its right to enjoy full political citizenship? How long can martial law be maintained? (the warning to Burkina Fasao about possible UN sanctions, should be heard loud and clear in Thailand).

We are hearing- in normally conservative news media, a certain amount of questioning- of the vision- of the means-- this can NOT be permitted since it is veering dangerously close to 'formenting conflict'--the fundamental ill that the coup sought to address. Thus the screws will have to be further tightened-- loosening them will be seen as compromise and possible encouragement to the enemy and incur the contempt of the friends-- but tightening them- toughening up martial law-- will result only in more deep dissatisfaction-- wherein satisfaction- 'atomization' becomes a part of the political fabric-- and that too does not portend well- as we have seen in too many other countries.

Talk about a rock and a hard place.

What right should the Election Commission have to approve the Budget?

Anything can be deemed populist. The insane amount of money spent on the glorification of Mr. Rogers could be seen as wasteful, but only existing to please the public.

apologies for 'f'd up post and edit-- interesting response though.

About bloody time too! Although she may not be PM for to much longer by the look of things.

"By the look of things"? Try "by the look of things" shortly after PAD had set up in Lumphini- and the press described a meeting of some of the most 'connected' old ladies in a tea house in Bangkok (you know the ones- swept back lacquered hair- pure Thai credentials- lots of significant prefixes to their names) = who came out of the tea room to state in no uncertain terms that Thaksin was to be gotten rid of.

Nobody who has been watching the unfolding of events for the last 8 years expected her to be allowed to serve her term- nor will any other gov't that threatens the establishment. = that dares to act like a real government that seeks (with competence or incompetence) to fulfill its popular mandate should that mandate threaten the established status quo.

Actually, he's been making a lot of valid points this evening on stage. I don't think he's gone mad, but he can smell victory.

He is and never will be the leader, he is a Trojan horse IMO, but if it gets rid of the Shinafia them I'm all for it.

Regimes- unpopular- some corrupt, many inefficient have been torn to bits in the past- Pol Pot got rid of the quislings in Cambodia- Hitler put an end to the corrupt and inefficient Weimar- and the Shining Path came close to ending the corruption in Peru-- be careful who you follow- just because you share enemies, doesn't mean he is your friend!

Reading the comments Suthep has just made on the TV updates-

The man is stark raving mad-

He has dropped all pretense of compromise and reason- reading these statements is chilling- he sounds like the guy in movies who implodes at a public meeting- I know the stress has been great- but there are people who still believe that he is sane enough to lead them- my god.

Whoever is pulling his strings will, I think, very soon, cut him loose and find another face for the glorious revolution. Even the most fervent and passionate supporter of these protests will be having second thoughts.

The first indications were his switcheroo on banks lending money to help the farmers- but now- re his 'readiness' to talk to YL--

It is as if he is mocking his own self of a few hours ago- pure craziness.

The pied piper of Bangkok- Jonestown- Please - to his supporters on this forum- calm down- listen to him- don't let his roars and triumphant screams cloud your judgement-- I believe there are sane and rational people on the yellow side of the divide- but he is no longer one of them- And I do feel sorry for him- because soon- his handlers will hand him to the dogs.

Take the game out of the stadium and windows are going to get broke. Expect it. and live with it.

The actual cost to the business community of this 'protest' has been huge. And going to get much worse There are more people than just the reds that would like to see the protests come to an end.

There are also those that are frustrated that the army is pussyfooting around instead of bringing out the tanks-- people with vested interests in such a scenario- people who simply love a man in uniform- and those who never much cared for civilian gov't in the first place.

What is surprising is how few deaths there have been considering the availability of war weapons in this country. These seem more like symbolic acts- and my estimation of those boys in the park- is that no way are they going to pack their bags and head south just because of some random shots at their camps.

So probably it is a tactical move-- but by who?

What a juvenile article-= and sadly so typical- By the line of reasoning that the auther employs, Obama should have paid for the new health care system out of his pocket.

However it stands to reason that the opinionator would not understand the concept of 'principles'= he only understands personal greed. And so a rich man callling for fair play makes no sense to him.

ridiculous.

Another thread, urging media reform, deserves to be re-read in light of this piece of crap 'journalism'.

I see NOWHERE in the article that someone - a person- with a name=- urged YL to defy the courts,

despite the headline and the allegation that the UDD urged her to do so. (Organizations don't urge- people do!)

Still, it serves to further demonize the enemy-- and that's what is needed if we are going to stand by our guns (literally).