blaze

" I am here to protect democracy. If I resign, there will be a vacuum which paves the way for an abolition of the Constitution and [bringing in] an undemocratic system. I have to protect democracy in my capacity as leader of the government. "

Nonsense from beginning to end. A vacuum is what we have right here and right now. And the constitution is the very instrument that will deal with it. The constitution states that if a parliamentary quorum is not achieved by March 4, the administration folds, and the constitution takes over with the process that follows. Either she steps down now or on March 4 is entirely up to her, but after that the constitution doesn't give her a choice. What she is protecting first and foremost is Thaksin. Thaksin is the only reason she is prime minister, and Thaksin is the only reason she is staying. And instead of going to the province of Saraburi today, why didn't she go to Trat ? Why didn't she go to Ratchaprason ? Is this the example she is setting as prime minister ? Is this how she bonds with the Thai people after such unspeakable crimes against humanity ?

Great post. This is all about Thaksin. Anyone who thinks it isn't, is fooling themselves.

Yes in a sense you are correct.

Thaksin sought to modernize the economy. This involved financially empowering the farmers-- but the real goal (if the history of other countries emerging from the stranglehold of feudal economics is anything to go by) he threatened to open the playing field for 'new capitalists' (you recall of course, the hatred of the PAD for 'capitalism'- which seems strange considering that many of its supporters were very wealthy- but it was the wealth of the hereditary monopoly- not the dog eat dog darwinian struggle that modern capitalism entails.

Back in the 80s it was said that about 12 families controlled the entire economy of the country- More than any one person- Thaksin threatened that system. And in so doing brought the farmers along in order to obtain the votes needed to bring Thailand into the twentieth century.

All the crap about his corruption (do you honestly think Thais hate corruption? That suthep hates corruption?) is pablum tossed to people who can't understand t he bigger picture (like many on this board) the real issue is a marked change in the economic and political power structures of the country- the old is being challenged by the new- and that never goes down easily.

Why H90?

What policies is he proposing that would benefit the Issan rice farmers?

Will he maintain the minimum wage? Or roll it back?

All he is promising is -- reform that will lead to an erradication of corruption. The entire world will react much more strongly when their paychecks are halved than were gov't corruption to be halved.

do you honestly think the working poor will welcome a roll back of the minimum wage- that farmers will welcome a lower price (non-subsidized) for their products?

THe rice farmers are NOT protesting the rice buying program- they are protesting that the gov't has not lived up to its end of the deal.

And any future gov't better be prepared to match the offers made by PTP- or they won't get the rice vote.

Similarly- it will be political suicide for those wanting the working poor vote to roll back the minimum wage.

So I can't see your reasoning-

It is curious to me why the apparant support for Suthep by the rubber farmers (who, it can be argued, are more financially secure than the rice farmers--) They too have demanded subsidies equal to those of the rice farmers. Sooner or later Suthep is going to have to say something of political substance--0 they watch the tides turn against HIM.

At present this is a circus and all the razzled dazzle and noise and bluster- all the unrepressed hates and resenstment- the sense of being 'on the team'- has blinded many to the bigger picture- flash and razzle dazzle-- But some day, somebody is going to have to answer to these people- and hating the Shinawatras-= driving them from the land- won't pay for the truck- won't guarantee equal treatment under the law- won't erradicate the middle man, the loan shark.

Thais now expect governments to take an interest in their lives the way that they hadn't till Thaksin rolled up. That's not going to change- and Suthep/Abhisit is going to have to make some clear policy statements once the fireworks are quiet-

Another attack like this will give the military all they need to establish martial law. While I"m no fan of martial law, I think this just might be a case where it is needed to regain peace and stop, or at lease decrease, the violence by all sides.

You don't think that it could actually INCREASE violence by those that might regard such an imposition as intended to protect the protesters 'right' to evict the legitimately elected government?

I'm sure the military has considered this- it's not like the reds have been mum about their attitude towards any military intervention.

(For some strange reason, they seem to think that the military is aligned with the protesters).

It's getting to the point where a coup, although far from ideal, may be the only way to go in the short term.

Of course it would damage Thailand's reputation or what's left of it, but at least it would put a stop to Suthep's rantings and the government's incompetence. It would be an opportunity to take a time out, establish some order so people can get on with theirt day to day living again and during which time both parties can take stock and offload their unwanted baggage (you know who they are) and start afresh.

Might be worth a try.

Until the army have to give in and allow another election, and the merry go round starts again. Whilst Thailand may not know it but world opinion and Europe and America's pro Decrocy stance would leave the army General out there on his own unless he wants to side up with China.

Any normal place the police would have had this sorted weeks ago.

ANy normal place, the police and the government they answer to would not be threatened with massive court cases should they be so bold as to reclaim Bangkok from the occupation by the southern Guards. Any normal place the army does not interpret its role as being to defend avowed insurrectionists from the duty of the police to maintain open access to all parts of the city.

In the past, Prayuth has implied that there are two reasons for the army avoiding an all out coup- first, is world opinion. The last one was an expensive bit of silliness that accomplished nothing.

Also- and he has suggested this too- the reds are much better organized now and less likely to accept a coup.

Thailand is proud of its history of bloodless coups- this too often indicates a bloodless population that meekly accepts military dictatorships. Those days are gone.

Hi is not referring to Cambodia-- he is referring to Abysinnia.The invasion of Abysinnia consolidated support for the Grand Council in 1935== It can do the same for the People's Council now.

I don't think what he is saying is so outlandish. Cambodia is where all the red shirt terrorists fled so they've obviously got connections there. I seem to recall Charlem's son also fled there after killing that cop. Rumors of men in black from Cambodia. Thaksin's relationship with Hun Sen, etc etc etc.

Trat is right on the border. Easy for a couple of truck loads of hired trouble makers to run across the border and shoot up the Trat gathering and run back across .... disappear.

Thaksin's peanut gallery is certainly trying to rubbish the idea ... I wonder why.

Actually, Chalerm's son fled to Malaysia. But hey, they're "foreign devils", too. Same same, but different.

Thaksin's peanut gallery is certainly trying to rubbish the idea ... I wonder why.

Since you are given to ascribing motivation-- what do you think might be the reason that people on BOTH sides of the color divide regard this statement as nothing more than hot air?

could it be because he has given NO evidence for this dangerous allegation?

That he has not corroborated his earlier statements suggeting that vans full of crazed Cambodians were sneaking into the country under his nose?

Or do you have another explanation-- (we are all paid by Thaksin and Hun Sen hand delivers our checks).

One thing I noticed about the pics taken in the immediate aftermath of the attack is the total lack of a police presence. This is on the street just outside Big C and is not near any stages. It's the middle of one of Bangkok's biggest shopping districts, and no police. First responders were the army and rescue crews. The police didn't show up until the army had apprehended some possible suspects.

The lack of a police presence, in light of all the terrorist activity is most disturbing. Do they not care about the security of shoppers on the busy weekend?

PRDC don't let them in.

Big C is fenced in by the protests- to get into big C (this morning at 11 am) from either direction, you had to walk past a guard checking bags. This is NOT to say that parents should be avoiding areas that the protesters have claimed. To the poster who says he hasn't seen police or army presence-- has he been to Lumphini park coming from Wireless Rd? To the intersection on Phetburi? Silom road (in front of Bangkok Bank)? I counted 12 manned bunkers in my stroll two days ago- though agree- NO police in sight.

I'm afraid the days of pointing fingers are coming to an end- now could begin the bad shit. Debates about 'who started it' will be the priviledge of those living off shore.

Thida's comments today are ominous-- and fully to be expected. People learn the easy way -- or the hard way- that there is a reason for law- for procedure- for dispassionate debate. There is much that happens in Thailand that would not be permitted in more stable countries-- (and let's not get into the nature of Thai culture that treats the law as little more than a tool with which to hammer your enemy when grenades are not available).

Anyone watching events unfold since the airport occupation- and the subsequent consolidation of Thaksin support- knew this would happen- and we will, I fear, see much worse.

Personally I can't understand why the Reds would be engaged in these bombings- unless they are loner cowboys- because in so doing, they are inviting a military coup. And very possibly another Abhisit led government.

Or all out civil war-- in which case nobody will win.

The reds have been so far, not villified by the west the way the gov't in Ukraine has been. It makes no sense that they would seek to lose the moral high ground. But-- times like this defy logic--

I bet she didn't understand one word she was reading ....

Love it

Aw- ya gotta love public forums- the intellectual depth- the emoticons-- but-- that's democracy - the right to shoot off one's mouth without fear of censor- Let's all enjoy it while it lasts because if the fascists get their way- it might not be around long.

You also have no clue what you are talking about. Have you read the MICT laws lately. Doubt it.

You think you can speak freely now? Go ahead and try.

You think you can freely browse any internet site you want, go ahead and try.

I think you'll find you are being censored, patrolled and logged everywhere and everything you do. No need to try and blame a group of unarmed protestors to what this current crony group has put in place. We can say the "great wall of Thailand" was built during the dynasty that was PTP/Thai Rak.

good post- and of course you are righat- the 'system' demands a level of censorship that would not be accepted in most countries. But I was referring to the rights of posters to be guffawing buffoons- as the posts I included represented. Thank you for an intelligent observation- without the need to have little smiley faces applauding your brilliant wit.

I don't care which side of the color divide a person's sympathies lie- but who inserts an emoticon laughing at their own 'joke'.? At a time like this?

I bet she didn't understand one word she was reading ....

Love it

Aw- ya gotta love public forums- the intellectual depth- the emoticons-- but-- that's democracy - the right to shoot off one's mouth without fear of censor- Let's all enjoy it while it lasts because if the fascists get their way- it might not be around long.

take away people's basic human rights and you can expect a backlash

most of the world fights FOR elections - and Thailand fights to STOP them

Kill protesters and you can expect a bigger backlash. People are fighting for reform not to stop elections.

It has been asked, in the local media- in the international media- just exactly WHAT reforms are you planning?

Your fav flav is about Absolute Demcoracy--

we fear your shutting down-- your mind!

You see why some of us are nervous?

But you are going to bring as the Legion of the Archaengel Michael brought to romainia- righteousness and a return to True Faith and National Values?

So what reforms?

Hey man- this gov't is dead man walking. The Establishment backed by the army will see to that.

So then what happens? You think the Reds will just say- oh yes masssaa thanks for showing me the errors of my ways?

Christ! THINK

Trouble maker red shirt ko tee up to his usual stuff

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

yeah- not respecting the right of fascists to deny the Thai people a right to choose the gov't of their choice.

GET USED TO IT,

Another paid Thaksin troll heard from.

Why is that these accusations of being paid to disagree with the mob usually come only from only one side of the color line?

Does it indicate a sincere hope to dialogue? Or are these kind of posts a prelude to book burning?

Well said Any comparison with the 1920-30s and Mussolini are so far off the mark in relation to what is happening in Thailand it is

I'm trying to work out what he means by " Millions as there were supporting Musollini... THE LOST, !!! Took 20 years war, but they lost"

could it be a reference, that it will take that long to get rid of Thaksin?

you don't see the similarities between Suthep's concept of Cleansing Governement and Mussolini's Grand Council of Rome?

IT's getting very old now- most, regardless of color sympathy have accepted that this is fascist- pure and simple.

Maybe if Soo Soo doesnt invade Abyssinia (or Cambodia) we will finally get trains running on time.

Abhisit's stand is in keeping with his beliefs, which should be respected. Everyone in life makes decisions based on how much they are in tune with their inner beliefs. We cannot prejudge someone who decides for themselves what is right. The importance of Abhisit's decision - and indeed for the Democratic party as a whole - is that the decision to vote or not vote tomorrow is one that is left to each individual member of their party, as it is indeed to all of us. This election - if it can be called as such - will be a completely convoluted affair, with eight provinces not participating, fourteen provinces without party-list ballots, as well as many areas that will have no ballots at all. There will be many poling stations that will be closed or undermanned. There will be others that are blocked. There could be potentially explosive encounters between the protesters and the police. We do not know what Chalerm has in mind, though those who are aware of his pattern of behavior are very wary indeed. This poll will be regarded as unconstitutional from the point of view of article 108 alone. It will accomplish nothing for the Yingluck administration other than to convey the rather clear impression that they are no longer in control, and under severe opposition from roughly half the country. Their go-it-alone administration has met its stone wall.

Another articulate post from you Scamper (i mean that).

but is it fair to Dem party constituetnts that their party leadership deny them a voice in 'da house'?

Swinging your support of Abhisit to condemnation of Chalerm- -- strange no? Chalerm had nothing to do with the decision of the Dems to shelve their obligations to their consituents.

You don't want elections- that is clear.

So what do you want? -- reform?

To in 18 months change a society mired in medeival power structures and superstitions into the beacon of fairness promised by the grand traditions of liberty and democracy?

Not going to happen.

What you will get is a new definition of Democracy- which actually is not new at all- it has just been discredited since the 1920s.

Another "Final Day". How many is that now?

don't worry it will go on until taksin is finally outed well done suphet for standing up to red shirt thugs and taksin mafia

this wont end beleve me until taksin and his vile scan are finally defeated or thailand becomes taksin one party state

since theirs now not going to be only caretaker pm ewc for months IMO taksin will get more and more desperate and all will depend on army

And how do you and your brothers propose to erradicate the influence of Thaksin and his 'vile scan'.

What in the course of these protests suggests to you that thaksin is getting desperate- because he caved in and dissolved govt, invited elections?

Or is it that he didn't obey the instructions of some crazy old man from Surat?

Im Thai...........and i cant live here and not work!! How do you find time for so much garbage?..........and how sad that you feel that you can make a difference...........youve spent ALL that time and not one iota has changed because of it here in Thailand.......wouldnt you be better off making yourself and your family more financialy stable?.............or are you 12 and in holiday from international school - the quality of your posts would certainy support that possibility?

Yes I know you are Thai.

I am very sorry for you-

Believe that- I hear your frustration-- and it is justified.

Can you tell me-- what is the problem in your country?

Why did other countries advance intellectually and yours remained mired in the equivalient of the 14th century in Europe?

What is it in your culture that is so ireconcilable with the aspirations of those who do believe in social, economic and political equality?

".......even if the election miraculously brings about a new government. Results will be bitterly challenged or protested and there might be grounds for the poll to be nullified" ??????

Why should - if the election brings a new government - the results be protested and challenged?? Because the election did not bring the outcome desired by certain people?

The people boycotting and not voting have zero right to protest after! If you do willingly not take part in the democratic process you have no right to whine afterwards!

They can "challenge" a possible government in the next elections then - that's how it's done - with all the mistakes this government has made it should have been easy to win over enough voters to win or at least send a powerfull message to PT - instead the democrats decided to put Suthep on the stage to alienate all potential swing voters - very clever!!! - Some people never seem to learn!

Well said Cnx.

no one has acted as a mediator genuinely seeking a solution

That sums it up.

That is not true!

Can the problems be fixed? Certainly! So what is preventing that from occurring?

First of all, any reform must be inclusive. The Bangkok elitists must dialogue with the "Second Class" people of the North.

Mr Suthep and his PDRC followers insist on "winner take all,"...and will not budge from that stance. They do not dialogue with Second Class Thai's from the North who want to share in the 14 times more government services that the Bangkok gets, as compared to those in the North (see World Bank data for conformation)

Ms Yingluck, the landslide elected PM showed her commitment to inclusion at the "Uniting for the Future" in Sept 2013.

The anti-government elitists will not talk to PM Yingluck because her brother, who does not even live in Thailand, is media-ted by them to be the real PM of Thailand. This is known as Goebbelesque propaganda,...project your hate long enough, and people who feel threatened will believe it is love.

Why are the elitists threatened? Why do they fear PM Yingluck's policies which give more equally to all Thai people?

Does nepotism and cronyism really exist at the level the Bangkok elite think it does? Why would a landslide elected PM keep elitist appointees in government positions, when they ran on promoting a more transparent government? Appointing your own people to positions is not corruption,...it's democracy. Could you imagine the Australian PM coming to Office and leaving his predecessors people in those positions?

The real problem with executing a solution is obvious,...but as yet is politically undoable. That solution is to make hate a crime. If hate was a crime,....all PDRC sheeple would be criminal,...and thus their "winner take all," obstructionist agenda would be dismissed for what it is.

This hate-driven, conservative illness is not confined to Thailand,...the same elitist, anti-government folks are spewing their madness all over the World,...in America they are called Tea Party,...in other places, other names,...but their fascist agenda is clear.

Another way to ensure a solution,...one I particularly love,..is to make Buddhism the National religion of Thailand. Not a single PDRC leader or their sheeple is respectful of the Kalama sutta.

Yes- I can from my apt hear the roar of the crowds-- and it is not nescessary to hear the words- the message is hate- That is evident.

Reason left the room long ago.

And yes- I saw the same thing at Rajapraprasong- photos of Abhisit strewing the street- eyes blacked out.

Many won't agree- but I hope that Yingluck maintains the grace and spirit of compromise that she has so far displayed. In the long run- it will be better. Maybe she is obeying Thaksin's line- but if so, then Thaksin is being advised by some smart people- His style, I think, would not be so conciliatory.

There are no liberals (implying that PTP are in any way liberal is just absurd), and no conservatives in Thailand, no left wing, and no right wing either. All groups you can see in LoS are self-serving populists, acting for different audiences, and struggling for a place by the cash flow. PTP is feeding off the rural population, dems prey on "educated elite", as for Suthep...

Do you guys really think that he's after power? In this case why would he act like there's no tomorrow? May be because there's is no tomorrow for him, and he is a volunteer political kamikadze targeted on Shins carrier? That would make perfect sense, he's old, rich beyond imagination, and clearly not as crazy as he appears on TV.

Best case scenario: when dust settles down, there will be no Shins, and no Suthep in Thai politics, and that can be a good point to start over.

On Tea Party:

First of all, nothing in USA has nothing in common with anything in Thailand, the settings are just too different.

Second, you are clearly confusing the right wing of the republican party (whose influence is very limited these days, they are a little more than village fools) with talking heads from Fox News, like Beck, and O'Reily. The latter have hidden agenda, alright, but it's focused on ratings, sponsors, book fees, lecture contracts, etc., not on world domination or something. Hidden agenda of their lefty counterparts, like John Stewart, is pretty much the same.

Third, you are just being a paranoid conspirologist. Take your texts, and replace "tea party", and "conservatives" with "masons", "communists", "jews", "liberals", "black panthers" whatever. Get the idea now?

Very interesting post and worth a re-reading.

Though I disagree with some of the assumptions- (no conservatives in Thailand?)

And ALL political parties world over are populist in one way or another- catering to the desires and dreams of one group or another.

If they did not- they might as well throw in the towell. People vote on the basis of their self-interest.

But to compare the political culture to that of say, the US, is risky- that I certainly grant.

And I too have been guilty of relating this to the Tea Party- it is much deeper than that.

Does TV have a policy RE paid trolls? Because Ve37 is obviously one of them.

why is this post allowed? It contributes nothing- aside from an authoritarian urge to suppress all ideas that conflict with those of the poster.

I'm going out on a limb here -- but I am starting to agree with the knee jerk types who say 'thailand is not ready for democracy'.

Democracy assumes the existance of conflicting (and selfish) aims. And it is the method developed and refined over the last two or so millenia as a means to resoive those conflicts.

Societies committed to democracy are underpinned by a culture that regards all individuals as having equal right to contribute to the formulating of the nation's future.

But maybe this whole urge to social fairness, equality- comes from something we take for granted- but many Thais don't- that the Enlightenment with its reliance on the scientific method- on debate- just slipped past Thailand (and much of Asia).

Maybe Kipling was right- 'ne'er the twain to meet'--

Maybe Suthep knows things about the Thai mind that I can never know-- he does.

We were the "Man who would be ****'- and we know how that worked out.

flame away- from all sides I guess.

i like being dominated and controlled ... but only seeming to be.... steel magnolias... behind the scenes i dominate and control...

I think you would do well to be read some feminist literature.

With your statement - loving the traditional game- you put women back about 100 years.

All coy and pretense...

drop the fascination with control.

Many women don't want to dominate - nor be dominated. It's possible.

You speak like a 'girl'.

Become a woman.

If CAPO refuses to protect the area from grenade attacks ( one wonders why ? ) then they have abdicated their responsibility for protecting the people - and Chalerm's press conferences have all been hogwash. It is the right of the people to ensure their own protection in the light of such abominable behavior - both from the grenade attacks and from CAPO's abdication of trust and responsibility.

When the reds come to town, will you so adamantly defend their rights-- to shut down Suthep's 'new order' ?

Never mind- your righteousness will soon be put to the test. And then I await your passionate defence of the right to 'protest' wihout being attacked when it is reds being fired on.