KhunHeineken

I am talking about the Thai Tax ID Number. (TIN) It would be easier for the bank to collect the tax on all remitted funds into any, and every account, where a TIN has not been supplied. Same as we do in Australia for earnings on bank accounts where a TFN has not been supplied. Bank computers would do all the heavy lifting, and easier than having immigration handle it. Next.

Well, at least you didn't report my post for discussing illegal activity. Your argument comes up occasionally. I have considered it. I just can't see it happening. It's been going on for decades, and as another member has said, goes all the way to the top. Prostitution is illegal here also, yet look at it here. Corruption is endemic in Thailand, we all know this. Whilst I do not condone corruption, I am merely a guest in Thailand, and go with the flow. Visa agents and their offerings will still be around long after I have passed. It's too lucrative. To be honest, I am surprised they haven't raised the 800k to 1 million, and the 65k to 80k. They would do so under the guise of higher cost of living etc, but it really would be to drum up more business for the agents, which funnels more funds through to those at the top. There's been many cases of guys trying to to the right thing, and no doubt they think they are saving themselves a baht, waiting all day at immigration only to be told they are a photocopy short, which means coming back tomorrow. It's been alleged in other threads, over the years, this is designed to frustrate retirees and push them onto agents. I know an elderly Aussie retiree who now has mobility issues, so he has no choice but to pay an agent, so it's not just about the 800k in a Thai bank for some.

So, would that mean those living of a business, or rental income, or an annuity etc etc would just have to tell immigration "I'm living on a pension" and bingo, no Thai tax. I find that hard to believe. You are on a part pension. What are you going to say to immigration about your supplement income? You missed the "interesting" part. "foreign tax authorities tell us about foreign source income" -so wouldn't Australia tell Thai tax officials about the source income of Australians living in Thailand?

Well, some members on here, including yourself, have been BIG on THE LAW and LEGISLATION. I've posted the tax treaty with Germany and it clearly states 15% tax on pensions from the source country, being Australia. That is THE LAW. It is possible Aussie pensioners living in Germany fall through some cracks, maybe, could a similar tax treaty with Thailand in the future also have the same "cracks?" Maybe. We'll have to see. However, as I have said in the past, when the "payer" (Centerlink / government) is also the "taxer" (ATO / government) it stands to reason the tax will be withheld, rather than chased later.

Here's a good article from the first page of a Google search. It explains tax treaties very well, and the steps in making one. https://bristax.com.au/tax-articles/double-tax-agreement/ "The journey towards signing a bilateral DTA follows a well-defined set of steps. This process typically spans approximately two years, though it can take longer, and involves various stages to ensure that both countries involved reach a mutually agreeable DTA." I have no idea where Australia is in the queue, but a look at the Germany tax treaty shows it's very similar, but the taxing of pensions by Australia has been added. I'm guessing if that's all Australia wants to amend, it would not take too long.

Will be interesting for those transferring larger sums to Thailand to set themselves up for retirement. Eg. house / condo purchase, car, 800k in the bank, a business etc. Will larger transfers be counted as the "over $80,000USD for that year?

The money will be backdates, but will "the time" out of the 2 years? One would this it would be, but maybe the 2 years starts on the approval day, which means another 70 days on top of the 2 years.

Stick to picking your battles on the keyboard.

And for a few more baht, you get all of that, plus a multi re-entry permit, and no need for the 800k in the bank, and they take care of the 90 day reports as well. The cost is covered, with some left over, by having your 800k baht back in Australia actually working for you.

You make the agents sound like they are part of some deep underground criminal underworld, they are not. Visa agencies are everywhere in shops, and advertise widely. Everyone knows what's going on. It's been going on for decades.

Makes you wonder if taxing pensions is designed to push pensioners under the 65k a month for their extensions, thus pushing them onto agents. Everyone cleans up. The revenue department, the agents, immigration, and those above.

I've always paid an agent. My 800k baht sits in my fund at home making me a lot more than a Thai bank gives me, and it's safer. What it makes me is more than what the agent charges, so why would I tie it up in a Thai bank? This is nothing new, It's just that a lot of guys only see that their extension cost them 1900 baht, but they don't look at the lost earnings on the 800k.

Why not go down the Australian route? If you don't give your bank your tax number, they withhold tax at the highest marginal rate, including for deposits. Easy way to enforce compliance.

I'm living in Thailand yet still appear to be a resident for tax purposes of Australia. I derive an income from Australia, not being a pension, and I haven't paid one cent of non resident tax in years. I have explained why this has been allowed to happen for so long, and why it's set to change in the near future. So, it's not only the pensioners not paying tax, there's a lot of others not paying tax, including myself. The party couldn't last forever.

Australia taxes foreign pensions, why wouldn't Thailand? https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/your-tax-return/instructions-to-complete-your-tax-return/mytax-instructions/2022/income/foreign-income/foreign-pension-and-annuity "Most foreign pensions and annuities are taxable in Australia, even if tax was withheld from your payment by the country from which the payment came." This is interesting. "If you are an Australian resident and received income from overseas, you must show your assessable foreign income here, even if tax was taken out of the income in the foreign country. Foreign income that is exempt from Australian tax may still be taken into account to work out the amount of tax you have to pay on your other income. Under our tax treaties, foreign tax authorities tell us about foreign source income paid to (and the tax withheld from) Australian resident taxpayers. We use that information to check tax returns. Make sure you show your foreign income fully and correctly on your tax return. If your foreign pension or annuity is paid from a country with which Australia has a tax treaty, you may be able to arrange to not have tax withheld from future payments from that country." "foreign tax authorities tell us about foreign source income" - I guess that would be reciprocal, so Australia would be informing Thailand of your pension, and amount.

Been taxing Aussie pensioners in Germany since 2016, and possibly other countries. The tax treaty is not the cloak of tax protection for pensioners that you claim it to be. Why would the treaty with Thailand look any different to that of Germany's when it is updated, and Australia is updating all of its tax treaties, particularly as I would think there are a lot more pensioners living in Thailand than in Germany, thus, more tax revenue.

Two ways to look at it. Those that believe the double tax treaty with Thailand meant they pay no tax in Australia will not be happy with a possible 15% tax in the future, and those who believe the 32.5% was coming, will be happy with only 15%.

They didn't mind take 15% of the "small fry" that live in Germany. Why would Thailand be any different? Are you talking about a Super pension, which is bigger than the aged pension? I think Thailand will eventually follow other countries and just tax all worldwide income.

Question: Why didn't Jim Quinn mention Germany? His advice is completely wrong in relation to Germany, and possibly some other countries, isn't it? Incoming hand grenade. It's from the Minister of Finance and the Treasurer. I think they are a little higher than Jim Quinn. https://www.financeminister.gov.au/media-release/2015/11/13/new-tax-treaty-signed-germany

Yet, Jim Quinn is to be completely relied upon.

You can be a tax resident of both countries, or a double non resident of both countries. You never mentioned "meeting the criteria." Thailand will tax on "worldwide income" the same as Australia, and many other countries do. It appears Aussie pensioners have been paying 15% tax in Germany since 2016. I await your "interpretation" on Australia's tax treaty with Germany as to how and why Aussie retirees don't have to pay tax on their Australian pension iin Australia, when living n Germany. You did claim, the pension is tax free in Australia and every other country. I disagreed. Correct. I am using the loopholes in Australia's 90 year old laws that allows it. That's set to change when the proposed changes are passed. What you fail to understand is, the proposed changes to residency are a physical presence and time based model. There will be nothing to "elect" and no loopholes. I was researching the "provisions" in Article 19, because Article 18 is reliant upon them. I then saw the more recent tax treaty with Germany, and I have posted a link showing Australia is looking to update all of its tax treaties with various countries, so even if you are correct, it appears it's only a matter of time before Australia's tax treaty with Thailand is updated, and if it's similar to the tax treaty with Germany, pensioners will be taxed 15% of their pension in Australia.

All a moot point now, isn't it? The tax treaty was rolled out a couple of weeks ago with some conjecture about the "provisions" of Article 19, and how they relate to Article 19. Australia's tax treaty will change in the future, most likely sooner rather than later. If Australia's tax treaty with Thailand is anything like the treaty with Germany, is a 15% tax on pensions. As you say, "no ifs, not buts." Or, can you post an "interpretation" of the Germany treaty that says pensions pay no tax in Australia, and overseas? If you're an Aussie pensioner living in Germany, it appears you are paying 15% tax in Australia.

Australia is changing its double tax agreements with all countries, I believe there are 41 of them, which includes Thailand. The last tax agreement with with Thailand was in 1989, so it's 25 years old. I have posted a more recent tax agreement with Germany. You will see it's 15% tax from the source country, being Australia. It's only my opinion, but my way of thinking is the proposed changes to tax residency will coincide with changes to most tax treaties Australia have with other countries.

Correct. Just like the proposed changed to tax residency don't exist.

Australia is in the process of updating its tax treaties. (link previously provided) Check out a recent post I have made for what a tax treaty with Thailand may look like in the future.