KhunHeineken

Clearly, it means more than "diddly squat" when accounting firms, financial planners, investment houses etc are warning their clients. It's not about "worrying" but about preparing. there is a difference. For a non resident for taxation purposes, I don't think so. So, by your calculations, it's possible pensioners will lose $120 a week, yet, some people believe the proposed changes "are only for guys like Paul Hogan." Now, by your own calculations, it appears it's for everyone. Yes, we all should have been paying non resident tax, even pensioners. It's not a new tax, just a new way to enforce that it's paid. For someone who is not "worrying" about it until it comes in, why even bother doing the math?

And yet, just an hour ago, a member was still under the belief the tax free threshold still applies to non residents for tax purposes. How many members still believe the proposed changes are only for guys like Paul Hogan, and if you still have a Medicare Card you are still a resident for tax purposes.

It's proposed legislation. Is that a fact, or not? How many links do you need to see showing you this? Where's the "opinion" in it. There were proposed by the Liberal government and they are in Labor's "in tray." Link provided for this also. Can you post a link that shows I have made the proposed changes up, or it's all fake news? I've posted link after link after link. Where's the "opinion." The proposed changes are there for you to see. Sure, we can discuss law interpretation, tax minimization strategy etc, but to say the proposed changes is just my "opinion" is BS. It's all over the internet from credible sources, even the government's. Proposed changes - fact. Links provided. Pensions are income - fact. Links provided. Pensions are taxable - fact. Links provided. No tax free threshold for non residents - fact. Links provided. Show me where the above is just my "opinion."

Correct. Only a small amount of foreigners have permanent residency.

I believe there are a small amount of foreigners that hold permanent residency here. The criteria and hoops to jump through are difficult.

No deflecting at all. By all means, be as direct as you like. Here are the resident tax rates and non resident tax rates from the ATO website. Can you show me where is the tax free threshold for a non resident for tax purposes? See the part $0 to $120,000 is 32.5% tax. That's on the whole $28,514 once deemed to be a non resident for tax purposes. We all know there's a tax free threshold if you are a resident for tax purposes, but that's not relevant to most Aussie expats living in Thailand who will be deemed to be a non residents for tax purposes when the new laws are legislated. Foreign residents tax rates 2023–24 Foreign resident tax rates 2023–24 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $120,000 32.5c for each $1 $120,001 – $180,000 $39,000 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000 $180,001 and over $61,200 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 Australian residents tax rates 2023–24 Resident tax rates 2023–24 Taxable income Tax on this income 0 – $18,200 Nil $18,201 – $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200 $45,001 – $120,000 $5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000 $120,001 – $180,000 $29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000 $180,001 and over $51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

Tax residency status, for both Australia, and now for Thailand with it's new policy, is like Covid - we are all in this together.

Good to finally get some content from you. So you will meet the 45 days test, and easily meet the the second factor tests of being an Australia citizen, and having family ties. As it reads to me, you'll have to do 45 days in Australia each financial year. Do you agree, or disagree? There's also the new policy of Thailand to consider that they will start to tax remitted funds into foreigner's bank accounts. I haven't read Australia tax treaty with Thailand yet, but if pensioners have to pay, it's around 7500 baht a month. Link to Thailand's tax brackets posted previously. This is how you, me, and many others, have slipped through the net for decades. That will change when the proposed changes are legislated. If we want to remain tax residents of Australia, it will involve a "physical presence" in Australia for either 45 days or 183 days. As I have said, the pension payer will not also be the tax collector of the same funds. Why would they be? They will simply withhold the 32.5% of pension.

And how informative are yours? When the last time you posted a credible link debunking anything I have put forward on this thread?

And how much of these would you have to export to pay off $1 Trillion of debt? Look at the thousands of dollars in debt increasing by the second. https://australiandebtclock.com.au

I agree. Thailand does not offer a realistic pathway to permanent residency, let alone citizenship, as Australia does. A retirement visa gives the holder no more rights here than a tourist entering on a 30 visa exemption stamp.

Seems pretty clear to most accountants and investment firms. In Australia more than 183 days, resident for tax purposes. Outside Australia for 183 day, non resident for tax purposes. In Australia between 45 days and 183 days, move to the "factor test" which has some criteria that most expats should be able to meet, but that means 45 days in Australia, every financial year.

See where it says "ATO Certified Response?" You'll have to take it up with Blake, from the ATO. Incorrect. The pension is taxable. https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances/#:~:text=You must include taxable Australian,carer payment Taxable pensions, payments and allowances You must include taxable Australian Government pensions, payments and allowances in your tax return. Taxable government payments, pensions and allowances include: age pension carer payment Austudy payment JobSeeker payment Youth allowance Defence Force income support allowance (DFISA) where the pension, payment or allowance that it relates to is taxable veteran payment invalidity service pension, if you are age-pension age or over disability support pension, if you are age-pension age or over income support supplement parenting payment (partnered) disaster recovery allowance (but not in relation to 2019–20 bushfires). This is not an exhaustive list, for a full list of Australian Government payments, pensions and allowances, see: All set to change to "physical presence" and "time" based legislation, from "domicile" and "intention" based legislation, which is 90 years old and how allowed many expats, including myself, to slip through the net.

Too funny. More workers means more income tax means a bigger economy which means the ability to service more debt. So, tax our resources more and make them uncompetitive on the world market and countries will still buy from us. Really?

The Ostrich Syndrome is similar to the My girl is different syndrome. People need to believe that they are still an Australian resident for taxation purposes, despite living in Thailand for years. They really need to think they are "different" to Paul Hogan.

Yes Indeed - that definitely applies to many older blokes. Now kh.heiniken is a psychologist as well as an economist and more... But I still have him on ignore. Yet, you persist with personally attacking me, despite ignoring me. Perhaps some dementia setting in. You forgot that you ignored me.

With only 28 million people, yeah, right. Have you forgotten about Australia's rapidly shrinking manufacturing industry? You have no idea. PwC got in the sh*t because they were "consulted" by the government on tax matters, and then gave their own clients inside information on what the government was planning in relation to tax, so their clients could either maximize profits, or minimize their tax position.

Why not include those on part pensions also?

Troll. (not reported)

There's a lot of psychology around it. People don't like change, or anything that upsets their routine. This is more pronounced as people get older. Add to that a change that can cost them money, particularly from the tax man, and they are looking only for the reasons why it can't / won't happen, even whilst it's actually happening. Put simply, people just don't want to hear it, even when they know it effects them. The Ostrich Syndrome.

So, a multinational company with a whole floor of lawyers and accountants in their HQ are low hanging fruit. Then, you have their threat to government that if they tax them, they'll move their operation offshore and put plenty out of work, and what do workers pay, income tax.

The Australian economy had been in poor shape prior to covid. Soon to hit $1 Trillion in debt, for a country with a population of only 28 million people. No, you are wrong. Pensioners should have always been paying non resident tax on their pensions. The proposed changes are not new laws, they just make it easier for the government to collect what should have already been paid for decades, but loopholes seen many slip through the net. This link comes from an ATO staff member. Dated December 2021. https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380 No. If that was the case, it would have happened decades ago. As mentioned, the proposed changes are not new laws, just a new way of enforcing the existing laws. They close loopholes that thousands have been using for decades.

Or, just wait until you go to transfer your pension one day and see there is 32.5% less money and then complain why you were not informed of the new changes.

I suppose you will say I invented Thailand taxing remitted funds to foreigners in Thailand as well. If I was to post a link about it, and you read it, you would then label the post as scaremongering, despite the media source in the link being credible. No discussion from you on the issue. No plan. No strategy. No tax minimization ideas. No further information. No, you just personally attack the messenger and hope the message goes away.

Put simply, the previous Liberal government proposed changes to 90 year old residency for taxation purposes laws. The current Labor government are aware of the changes, with the assistant treasurer stating they are in the government's "in tray." Link already provided. The changes go from "maintaining a domicile in Australia" and "intention to return to Australia" both of which are difficult for the government to prove, to laws based on "physical presence" and "time" in Australia. The times being considered are 45 days and 183 days. Basically, if you are outside Australia for 183 days, and most Aussie expats in Thailand are, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes, and your pension, which is also deemed an income, MAY be taxed at the non resident tax rate of 32.5%. In relation to pensions, rather than the payer then trying to collect, they may just withhold 32.5% of one's pension because immigration has informed Centerlink they have been outside of Australia for 183 days. No one is forcing pensioners to return to Australia, but pensioners have to consider if they can still remain in Thailand on 32.5% less income, or, return to Australia for 45 days and meet a couple of other simple criteria each year, or do the 183 days in Australia each year. As the proposed laws stand, there is no provision to add a tax free threshold to non resident tax brackets, and there's no mention of exemption, or asset / means testing. Plenty of links, quotes, youtube videos have been posted about it. I thought we dodged a bullet in the May budget for a start on the 1st July this year, but as other members have posted, it's looking like the 1st July 2024 may be the start day. Add to this, the Thai governments announcement that they will be taxing remitted funds into the accounts of foreigners, this may also put financial pressure on Aussie expats here as well.