KhunHeineken

I'm already making plans for IF it does impact me. I am looking at my options, and time frames. I have a rental property in Australia. Between management fees, council rates, insurances, repairs and maintenance, and possibly non resident taxation on the rent, there may be no point keeping it. Trouble is, the market's on the way down. If I sell it, after paying all the fees and taxes, that money is going straight over to a bank account in Singapore, along with the everything else. Well said, Mr. Packer.

I've showed some courtesy by replying to posts directed at me. No need to reply to this post. ????

Yes, but I am already making plans for a few possible scenarios. I don't want to wait until it's on me to make some moves. Like I said, it was just a heads up for members and then the following discussion got busy.

How many expat pensioners lodge tax returns? Correct. That is the law. From dollar number one, no tax free threshold. I didn't put forward a theory, I asked you some simple questions. Expats will still get a pension. It just MAY be less 32.5% because non resident tax has been taken out, IF pensions are not exempt. Same as you work for someone and at the end of the week the boss takes out tax and super, and you get the rest. No, it's easy, too easy for them. That's why they are bringing in the changes. Example: John Smith is an Aussie and been living in Thailand for a few years on an Aussie pension. The new laws come in. Immigration then shows John Smith is outside of Australia for 183 days and informs the ATO. The ATO inform Centerlink, and the pension is taxed at a non resident rate. John Smith gets a smaller pension each fortnight. Computers do everything, and John Smith can't ask for a review, or appeal. They have John Smith on toast. Is what I described an opinion, a theory, a prediction, advice, making stuff up? Regardless if it's one, or all of these, is it possible?

Do you think it could be because the payer can also be the taxer, being the government? Why would Centerlink give the full pension every fortnight, then the ATO has to chase some of that pension as a tax? Too much work, too costly. Do you think the ATO could just tell Centerlink to give 32.5% less pension to people they know who are overseas for 183 days? Pension paid and tax paid, at the same time. Note the questions, not predictions, opinions, advice.

There would be nothing to collect, it becomes a savings for the government.

I'm done explaining myself. Short answers, no problem. Do you think it's possible, even remotely possible, one government agency will talk to the other agency.? Could the ATO talk to Centerlink and tell them a pension recipient has been deemed a non resident and Centerlink adjusts their pension accordingly? I'll put it to you as a question, because I would not want you to think I am making stuff up, posting opinion, or predictions, or giving advice.

Do you have a link for this? Is this your opinion? Is this a prediction? We don't know what they will do because it's not in yet, but I bet they know what they will be doing. Everything has already been planned. We will have to wait and see.

Why do you think your TFN is attached to your bank account? No need for a tax return. They know you are a non resident, because immigration has told them you are outside Australia for 183 days. You simply may get 32.5% less pension, but hey, I'm scaremongering again for something that hasn't even come in yet, and I'm only make predictions. ????

It's like that scene from the movie The Godfather. "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." ????

You should disregard every post I have made on the topic. The content is of little value. Good luck with the new changes, should they come in.

The facts, which are the proposed changes, and have been linked by me, and others, are there for all to see. What followed was discussion about those facts. Some of that discussion were my posts, where I have clearly stated my opinion, and made some predictions. Obviously, these were about IF the new changes come in, and what impact they MAY have on expats. Some of my opinions were formed around other facts, and I have also linked the other facts. I have since fielded questions, about other question, about other questions. We are going around in circles. Like I said, you have the new changes, they are the facts. What you do with that information is up to you. Some are under the belief there will be no impact to them at all, and that's fine. We all have a different relationship with the ATO. I am quite sure I will be impacted, same with a few friends. I am already preparing to deal with that impact. I wish you the best of luck dealing with them also, should they come in.

How can it be factual when the new changes haven't come in yet. I thought this was a given. Ok, it's prediction, for when the new changes come in, if the new changes come in. Blind Freddy can see what these new changes are designed to do, and who they target. Once again, we are going around in circles. Good luck should the new changes come in.

We are going around in circles. My last several posts have been proving with links what the last several posts before them have been about. I, and others, have posted links to the new changes. (THEY ARE NOT IN YET - NO ONE SAID THEY WERE) In my opinion they will come in, if others feel differently, that's fine. Good luck with the new changes, should they come in.

I'm done with it. It's the government bringing this down upon us. It's real, and not a figment of anyone's imagination. Good luck with the new changes.

I'm done with it also. Good luck with the new changes.

The system is already in place for bank accounts with no TFN. They may use the same system for taxing accounts at non resident rates because the account holder is a non resident, because they are outside of Australia for 183 days? Of course it's an assumption. Of course it's not factual. The new changes haven't even come in yet. Can't you see the writing on the wall? Why do you think the banks are asking? Who are they forwarding the information to?

We all have different circumstances. I admit it will have little impact on some, and big impact on others. We are going around in circles, and it's resulted in people personally attacking me, shooting the messenger, so to speak. I gather they are the ones possibly upset by it. To be honest, I never expected so much backlash. Look what the ATO does to people. ???? I don't think there's much more I can post on the changes. They are there for all to see. You are correct, we don't know if, how, and when, the government will implement these changes. It's a wait and see. I'll check in on the thread, because it's obviously relevant to me, as it is to many others, but more than happy to move on to another topic within the thread. I finalize some replies, then refrain from posting on this topic, within this thread, because I don't think there's much more to say about it.

Your links were general in nature. They made no reference to either residents, or non residents. My links specifically mentioned non residents. I don't have to prove anything to you, or any member on this thread. It's really just a "heads up" to everyone that changes are coming from the ATO, and those changes are very clear, and can not be refuted by the individual, because they are based on time, and geographic location. I'm not giving advice. I've supplied links to the changes. We had a lot of comments. Everything from it will never happen because it will be in the papers, to I'll worry about it when it happens, to comments like yours, shooting the messenger, being me. It's all good, some of it even funny. That's what the internet is about. I admit I have given some opinions, and I have said they were my opinion when posting them. I've made some predictions, and I have said they were my predictions when posting them. We are all Aussies, and if we have any assets, or generate an income in Australia, we are connected to the ATO in some way. Therefore these changes are relevant to all of us. What everyone does with the information supplied about the changes is up to them. Once again, good luck to all of us with it.

Like I said, the ATO has instructed the banks to tax accounts that do not have a TFN supplied at the highest rate of around 48%. This has been around for years. I am not making it up. I am not guessing it. https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Investments-and-assets/Investing-in-bank-accounts-and-income-bonds/#:~:text=If your bank doesn't,you lodge your tax return. Quote: "If your bank doesn't have your tax file number (TFN), it will withhold tax from your interest at the highest marginal tax rate. You can claim a credit for the amount of tax withheld when you lodge your tax return." The same applies to non residents. Those accounts will be taxed at non resident rates of around 32.5%. I posted a Commbank like showing this. The difference is, which many don't seem to grasp, the ATO is making it bloody easy from themselves to declare EVERYONE outside of Australia for 183 days a non resident. The ATO already knows your bank account details, your pension details, your super details, the houses you own, the business you own, and so on. It's about how easy it will be to declare you a non resident. The old criteria was open to interpretation and the "intention" of the individual. The new criteria is black and white. 183 days in = resident. 183 days out = non resident. I, and many like myself, have never hidden anything from the ATO. We have slipped through the net because the net had complex criteria that went to proving certain things. That proof took manpower, with no guaranteed result of a positive outcome for the ATO. That burden of proof will soon be non existent and come down to two things. Those two things are, were you outside of Australia, and was it for 183 days or more. That's it, nothing more. It's like driving through a red light. The light was either red, or it wasn't. If red, here's your fine. If 183 days, here's your bill. To put it bluntly, they are making it so simple for them to tax so many people at higher rates. That's the guts of the matter. It's not about your Paul Hogan's and your old age pensioners. This scoops up everyone in the same net. I have admitted, what remains to be seen is if government pensions will be exempt. We can go on and on about making stuff up, asking for links, guessing, opinions, who posted what and when, what's accurate and what's not, what's right and what's wrong, and so on. The Tax Man Cometh, deal with it the best you can for your own circumstances. In my opinion, it will effect all expats in some way, from some simply receiving correspondence of little relevance that they can throw in the bin, to big lifestyle changing financial impact for some. The very nature of these tax changes targets expats. It's what the 183 days is all about. That's most on this thread. Good luck to all of us with it in the future.

Are you talking about your $600 bill from selling a house, or what may happen to your pension and super payments into the future? If it's about the $600 bill, I never said they would garnish your pension. They would need to get a judgement, which means serving papers on you, which isn't going to happen in Thailand. Into the future, the ATO, through immigration, will definitely flag you as a non resident, regardless of your false declaration you made to your bank The 183 day rule makes that so simple for them now. Considering they also pay you the part pension, they may tax that at non resident rates, as it's income generated in Australia, or it may be exempt, being a government pension. We will have to wait and see. Like the banks taxing interest on non residents, your super fund may do the same on your super payments. As discussed with another member, it may depend on what type of fund you have. As you can see, you will be legal, as the tax may taken out before you receive your money. You may just receive less money than you have been.

Please show me on your links where is says something like, "applicable to residents and non residents for taxation purposes." Can you provide a link showing most super funds are taxed, or are you making that up? I have an untaxed super fund. There are more common than you think. How can I make up what I have linked to? The link speaks for itself. Some members have taxed funds, some members have untaxed funds. It's up to each member to know what they have, and where they stand.

Seriously? If you don't supply a TFN (Tax File Number) to your bank, how much tax does the bank take on behalf of the ATO? It's at the top marginal rate of around 48%. Either you tell your bank you are a non resident, or the ATO tells your bank you are a non resident, and they will take the 32.5%. Commbank's page. https://www.commbank.com.au/support.banking.add-a-tax-file-number-tfn.html Quote: "Withholding tax may apply to interest earned on your account(s) unless you’ve provided us with your ABN, TFN or TFN exemption. You’re not obliged to provide your ABN, TFN or TFN exemption but if you don’t, we’re required by law to withhold tax. The money we withhold is paid to the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). Anyone over 16 who has earned more than $120 interest p.a. will have tax withheld if they haven't told us their ABN, TFN or TFN exemption. Anyone under 16 who has earned $420 or more in interest p.a. will have tax withheld if there’s no TFN linked to the account. If the account’s held by their parent (not as a formal trust), the parent may quote their TFN. If there’s a formal trust, the TFN for that is used instead. And if you’re a non-resident we’re required to withhold tax. Go to Interest & tax summary in NetBank to check you’ve told us your TFN or TFN exemption and see if we’ve withheld interest." Read the second last sentence.

You are in different circumstances now. They will tax it before it gets to you.

You could be sent a bill, which then goes into the collections discussion we have had on this thread if you don't pay, or, they withhold some of your pension, and instruct your superfund to do the same, in the same way they instruct your bank to tax interest at non resident rates. It means you just get less a month to transfer to Thailand. Around 32.5% less, from dollar number one.