KhunHeineken

Here's Australia's debt clock. https://australiandebtclock.com.au Eye watering figures, increasing by the second. Take out children, pensioners, disabled, and others on Centerlink, then factor in big companies that don't pay any tax, and there's not many PAYG workers left to pay off this debt, and those workers are already the forth highest taxed people in the world, so there's not much more the government can squeeze out of them. https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/tax/australian-taxpayers-hit-with-some-of-the-highest-taxes-in-the-world/news-story/4c6a05dbbbf4cf03bd843e0b3f94aa6b

How is it scaremongering? It's all over the internet. Here's another example. This article is dated 29th September 2023 and is directed to those you are renting out a property. So, that would be someone on a part pension, renting out one or more properties in Australia, but living in Thailand. https://www.apimagazine.com.au/news/article/expatriate-aussies-face-massive-hit-to-tax-residency-status "Such a move would reverse the tax-free status of many expatriate Australians and have ramifications for their property holdings." How can article after article, through link after link, warning members of this forum that these charges are on the way, scaremongering? What will your post be when it's announced in the next budget, and comes into effect on the 1st July 2024?

That's 45 days every financial year, not every 3 years. See the link in the post above. Here's the relevant section. Here’s a breakdown for incoming tax residents 1️⃣ 183-Day Test: Spend 183 days or more in Australia during an income year, and you become a tax resident. 2️⃣ 45-Day Test: If you spent between 45-182 days in Australia during the financial year, keep going to the factor tests. 3️⃣ Factor Tests: Meeting two or more of these factors deems you an Australian tax resident from day one in Australia. These include citizenship, accommodation, family, and economic ties. It reads to me you need to spend at least 45 days in Australia in a financial year, to proceed to the factor tests, and then meet any two of them. Citizenship is easy. Family would be the next easiest one to prove, but you don't get to the factor tests unless you do the 45 days in Australia every financial year.

This guy, the head of InterRetire, says the 1st July 2024 also. This article is dated 21st September 2023. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/australian-tax-residency-rule-changes-back-expats-dale-hoy#:~:text=The intent is to have,considered an Australian tax resident. "The intent is to have new tax residency rules in place and effective from 1 July, 2024."

Are you confusing "residency" as in one's right to live in Australia, like visas, passport etc, example, permanent residency, with resident for taxation purposes? They are different. The resident for taxation laws are 90 years old. Link already provided. If you look at this link, it says the 183 days only applies to individuals arriving in Australia. https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Coming-to-Australia-or-going-overseas/Your-tax-residency/#BK_183daytest "183-day test This test only applies to individuals arriving in Australia. You will be a resident under this test if you're actually present in Australia for more than half the income year, whether continuously or with breaks. unless it is established that your ‘usual place of abode’ is outside Australia and you have no intention of taking up residence here." There's no dispute that under the 90 years old current laws that if you are in Australia for 183 days or more, you are a resident of Australia for taxation purposes, but as expats, we are more interested in trying to remain a resident of Australia for taxation purposes whilst being outside of Australia for more than 183 days. Many have been able to do this, including myself, for years. This was due to the many loopholes in "the domicile test." Alas, the proposed changes, and the 183 day "bright line test" will focus more on physical presence and time, not "intention" and maintaining a domicile, community ties etc etc. How many expats have been in Thailand for years, and have not returned to Australia? I confess, the time period between the 45 days and the 183 days is something that is not clear to me. It was discussed a little on the other thread. Say you are correct, and an expat has to return to Australia for 45 days every 3 years or face a 32.5% reduction in their pension, as another member suggested, without free accommodation somewhere, would the cost of flights and accommodation and associated living costs, be more money than losing 32.5% of their pension? You say they wouldn't "stick it to you" but wouldn't this see you being deemed a non resident for taxation purposes, thus they "stick it to you" assuming you are deriving an income from Australia? I think you will find most Aussie expats in Thailand wish to remain a resident for taxation purposes because it's in their financial interest to do so. However, there are some who would wish to be a non resident to escape paying tax in Australia. I know a few people like this. What's interesting for these people is the new laws coming in how Thailand is going to start taxing foreign income, but that's for another thread. It's a game of maneuvering one's physical presence, and money, so as to maximize time spent in a location where they wish to live, whilst minimizing tax whilst doing so. In the past, it was easy. I have admitted to using the current loopholes for years, and know many others doing the same, but in my opinion, that will change when the proposed change come in.

I disagree. I posted a link in my last post. Is that not "content?"

When's the last time you actually added some content to this thread?

The last I heard was the proposed changes were in the consultation phase, which ended in September 2023. https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2023-205344 Your link is dated 27th June 2023, so I am not sure how it can be legislated and published before the consultation phase has been completed, but I can't argue with your link. It's there in black and white. Interesting times ahead.

Can YOU post what is actually "positive" about paying more tax?

You're the one banging on about my post account, yet, YOU, with multiple and sequential accounts, have way more posts them me. As usual, off topic, trolling, baiting, stalking, personal attack, with absolutely ZERO content towards the thread. Can you post some content, or is it too difficult for you?

Once again, you really have NO idea. Read the proposed changes, which are not "dead in the water" under Labor. I have posted a link showing the Assistant Treasurer for Labor stating that the proposed changes are in the government's "in-tray." 183 days IS NOT the current situation. It WILL BE the situation in the future. It will be based on physical presence and time, not "domicile." Your 8 year run may be coming to an end. Of course, these changes to legislation could only be for guys like Paul Hogan.

Are you Paul Hogan?

We are all just a dollar value to them. They couldn't care less about the citizens, infrastructure, and services provided. As I have said before, at near $1 Trillion dollars of debt, for a population of only 28 million people, they will be chasing every dollar, even from pensioners.

36. Multiple accounts by the same person are not normally allowed and may be closed at our discretion. If you have access issues email support (at) aseannow.com

You do that anyway. A lot more than that, but in any case, just like this post, off topic, trolling, baiting, stalking, and a personal attack. You add ZERO value to the discussion. I can't remember the last time you contributed anything to the topic, or even posted a link.

The current laws are 90 years old. Links already provided on another thread. From The Treasury - Australian Government. Dated after September 2023. https://treasury.gov.au/consultation/c2023-205344#:~:text=This measure was announced by,be an Australian tax resident. Article not posted before. Dated August 2023. https://www.accountantsdaily.com.au/tax-compliance/18901-why-the-long-road-to-tax-residency-will-be-plagued-by-detours If anyone living in Thailand, full time, who derives an income from Australia, and a pension is an income, can circumnavigate the proposed changes if/when they are passed, I will be surprised. Unless exemptions, tax free thresholds and means testing is added, I don't see how anyone can slip through the net. Then, you have to deal with Thailand taxing foreign income in the future, and the double taxation agreement. Buckle up, indeed. Or, you can believe all of this is just for guys like Paul Hogan, and dismiss all the information in the many, many links provided as scaremongering.

You continually bang on about my 400 posts on the possible / probably effect of tax residency on pensions, yet 399 of your posts are trolling, baiting, and personal attacks on me. Deal with it and move on.

Breach of forum rules.

Not much happening back in Australia these days that isn't embarrassing.

That's 183 days inside Australia EVERY YEAR, or possibly face a 32.5% lower pension. Nothing to do with the qualification period for portability.

You really have no idea. Have you heard of the term "mortgage prison?" Basically, it's where a mortgagee does not qualify for a new mortgage on the same property they have being paying their current mortgage on because interest rates have gone up, and they no longer meet the bank's lending criteria for a mortgage on the property. Plenty on the internet and in the news about it. https://www.smh.com.au/money/banking/borrowers-warned-mortgage-prison-escape-plan-could-trip-them-up-20230622-p5dioy.html "With the rise in interest rates since May last year, many mortgage holders would fail the stress test now, leaving them unable to switch to a mortgage with a lower interest rate." The bank will not and can not "structure things" for people they know can not afford the loan under current interest rates. It's as simple as that.

Is this on topic for "Australia Aged Pension?" https://www.austchamthailand.com/thai-government-to-begin-taxing-foreign-sourced-income-as-of-2024/ This guy explains it in simple terms. More information will be forthcoming, but it appears one may have to chose, or be deemed by either Australia, or Thailand, as to their tax residency status. Of interest, Australia says 183 days, but this guy says for Thailand it's 180 days. If this is the case, the only way I can see getting around paying non resident tax in Australia is to spend 186 days inside Australia, then spend 179 days inside Thailand. This will see you qualify as a resident for tax purposes of Australia, and a non resident for tax purposes of Thailand. Interesting times ahead, of course, all of this just could be for guys like Paul Hogan.

Any legislation will be for everyone, unless exemptions and/or means testing is placed within the legislation. There was no mention of either in the proposed changes. The myth of it being too costly to the government to financially pressure retired expats to return to Australia has been discussed. The main argument is medical costs, but all that will happen is the queue for Medicare gets longer. They are not going to hire extra medical staff because over the next couple of years thousands of retired expats return to Australia, spread across the country. I have explained before how the government would like all that pension money circulating in the Australian economy, not assisting a foreign country's economy. They get a lot of that pension money back in GST, excise, levies, tolls, fees, licenses, rates, insurance etc etc. The rest helps create employment, and what do employees pay, income tax. It's about repatriating that pension money. They couldn't care less about the actual pensioner. As mentioned, they will not increase Medicare services, just let the queue become longer. Same with public transport. The buses and trains run anyway. It's already paid for. No problem if there is an extra passenger who is a pensioner getting a cheap ride. That small amount paid by the pensioner for a train ride will be a bonus, because it's extra money. That pensioner was living overseas before. Some of that rent assistance comes back in the form of the landlord paying tax on rental income, rates, capital gains on sale etc etc. As for energy allowance, that's another account / sale for an electricity company. There's supply fee and GST on electricity. That liter of fuel at the servo, that beer at the RSL, that packet of cigarettes, most of it is tax, all going back to the egovernment. You are ignoring the flow on effect of having billions of dollars in pension money circulating in the Australian economy, and not a foreign country's economy.

The property market in Oz is resilient because of the lack of supply. It's in the financial interest of all 3 tiers of government to have a higher housing prices. I have never suggested they should do away with negative gearing. In my opinion, it needs some regulation. For example, a barrister or a surgeon, on a high salary, having 5 or 6 investment properties in nice suburbs, in order to lower their own personal tax, needs to change. They could put a cap on the amount of properties one can own, or a cap on the dollar value of an investment property portfolio. Bill Shorten went to an election with this idea and was voted down. Too many people on the negative gearing gravy train now. You're joking, right? You don't think there is a property bubble back in Australia? Are you serious? You do know thousands of property owners are coming off fix rates and they already know they can't afford their monthly repayment after several interest rate rises over the last 12 months. They thought cheap money would be around forever. I think there will be another interest rate rise next month, or in December. You have contradicted yourself. You say the property market in Oz is resilient, but then say it's due for a market correction. If due for a market correction, it's not going to be so resilient, is it? It's a bubble that is being propped up by lack of supply, hence, the housing shortage Australia has right now, which is leading to unaffordable housing, and homelessness, not to mention enslaving people for 30 years to a bank. Look at all the land in Australia, and we have a housing crisis. It's a disgrace.

I've never disputed that the ATO write of debts. I have only asked a certain member that continually posts on here that, basically, any debt accumulated by a non resident for tax purposes will be written off because it probably will not be that much. I have requested the member on many occasions to supply a link setting out what dollar value the ATO will chase, and will not chase. Still waiting for that link, yet he continues to bait and troll me. Given we are all living longer, say you retire at 65 on a pension, and move to Thailand, for good. That would / could be about 15 years, or more, depending on the individual's health, of 32.5% of the aged pension accruing in ATO debt, although I am on the opinion Centrelink will withhold the 32.5%, based on the information given to them by immigration. For those on a part pension, or self funded, i can't see the ATO allowing years of non resident tax to just die with an expat overseas. Take into consideration the thousands of retired expats living outside of Australia, and I hardly think it's a small debt that the ATO will write off, either individually, or collectively.